It pains me as this is not good for WVU, but so far, nothing Lyons has done has given me much confidence in him. I fear he is in over his head in his current role.
Lyons and Holgorsen
- Thread starter wvmountydog
- Start date
I thought there was additional money owed for assistants.
If my memory serves me correctly, I recall doing the math sometime ago and the final number was approximately $4 million per season for a total purge.
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That can't really be counted because only two assistants have multi year contracts (maybe three) and you don't fire them unless you have to. As far that goes, you don't fire the head coach unless there is no improvement, especially in this pivotal season.
You have to be prepared to, because things can go south. But what if they play to their potential and that funny shaped ball bounces their way a few times? You had better also be prepared to find a way to keep him.
Head Coach Dana Holgorsen has a five year history as HC that speaks for itself. It needs no apologies, nor does it deserve much praise so far. The coming season is truly his most important in his HC career.
As a very longtime WVU fan I want to see them tear up the Big 12 and even overachieve. I also realize the opposite can occur, but I'll still be a devoted fan screaming at the TV as if the coach, the officials and a couple of players screwing up can hear me. Won't you?
"remove his 4-8 season and it is not so bad"
Good grief where does this kind of non-logic come from. At least try. LOL
Good grief where does this kind of non-logic come from. At least try. LOL
no it's about as stupid as the anti Rod fans who liked clinging to his one bad season of 3-8 to skew numbers while ignoring recent success.
Nothing that actually happened skews anything. If you throw out the one worst, you must also throw out the one very best to maintain validity. It doesn't matter who you are or what you do, you are going to have a 3 - 8 'season'. I have, you have, we all do. Those are the ones we learn from. They count because they help us have winning seasons.
Allow me to make a hypothetical.
Two seasons ago we opened up against Alabama. Great game for WVU to play, the kind of match-ups we want. Normally though, the season opener is an easy opponent that provides us almost a nearly guaranteed win.
We finished that year 7-5. Hypothetically, if there was an absence of Alabama on our schedule we would have ended the year with 8 wins, almost certainly.
So in this alternative universe we now have back-to-back 8 win seasons. Do you think that changes our fans perception of Dana's performance?
People always talk about improvement, but over the last two seasons the team did show improvement. If Trickett isn't injured, that's a 9 win season I think. I think we beat TCU and Kansas State with Trickett. Maybe our bowl game.
I just don't feel the team is performing as poorly as other "fans".
Perception oftentimes trumps reality. The Oklahoma, OSU and KSU games from 2015 caused a lot of frustration among fans because first, Coach Holgorsen didn't sacrifice a piece of the future to win now against Oklahoma and OSU. Otherwise he would have gone to Chugunov to avoid the horrible slump Howard was in and possibly won. Against KSU I cannot come up with a reason he called such a poor second half, sacrificing what was working to go with that which wasn't. There could have been back to back 10 win seasons, but there were not. That falls on the Head Coach no matter who he is.
I do not believe that will happen this year. If Howard hits a slump or injures his ankle he will come out and the most accurate passer on the team will go in. If WVU does not win 10 this year, the defense will be the reason. It's all speculation but that is what I believe. If they do win 10, wait and see how popular both Holgorsen and Howard are. We are a fickle bunch!
Perhaps the coaches, who see these guys practice every day, felt Howard gave them the best chance to win?
You really think bringing in a true freshman in on the road against OU, with the best pass rusher in the country in Striker is a good idea?
You have never seen Chugunov practice or play in a game of D1 football. It's quite the assumption to make that he'd do any better than SH. And he would very likely do A LOT worse.
I'm just trying to wrap my head around what he said.
"Hey we are 3-0 in the middle of a close game on the road to OU, one of the toughest road venues to play in CFB. Lets bench our starting QB and put in a true freshman who has never played a snap ."
Or
"We're in a tight game on the road against K - State. Let's burn our true freshman QBs redshirt for one half of play in the last game of the season."
And some of these guys call our coach a bonehead
![[laughing]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/laugh.r191677.gif "Laughing [laughing]")
You have no idea what I have seen or not seen, nor what I have video of. You also don't know jack about football and the simplest concepts of making bold moves in a logical attempt to change what is happening in front of your eyes. Why would the "most accurate passer of the bunch" (Coach Holgorsen's words, not mine) very likely do A LOT worse than a QB with 4 interceptions and two fumbles in two games? Howard gave 17 points to OSU which allowed them to take WVU to overtime.
I'm just trying to wrap my head around what he said.
"Hey we are 3-0 in the middle of a close game on the road to OU, one of the toughest road venues to play in CFB. Lets bench our starting QB and put in a true freshman who has never played a snap ."
Or
"We're in a tight game on the road against K - State. Let's burn our true freshman QBs redshirt for one half of play in the last game of the season."
And some of these guys call our coach a bonehead
Wrap your feeble brain around this, bonehead: The KSU game wasn't lost by one play. WVU won the first half as KSU could do nothing to stop both Smallwood and Shell from gaining over 5 YPC each and having a 13 - 3 lead.
The Mountaineers changed the gameplan after the half, repeatedly going three and out with Smallwood STILL gaining over five YPC as he only touched the ball 10 times in the second half. INSTEAD, Howard ran the ball 10 times that day for negative 13 yards on a very gimpy ankle. He also connected on a pitiful 19 of 42 passes for one TD.
Meanwhile, Smallwood gained 141 yds and a TD on 25 carries and Shell gained 38 yds on only seven carries. I'm not even saying Howard should have been yanked, though Crest may have been the better choice if you are going to run the QB 10 times and you're under 50% passing anyway. In his worst display of play calling as a head coach, Holgorsen snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. The independent viewers I was watching with insisted Coach threw the game. I know better, he was simply intimidated and vastly outcoached.
I don't care what you've seen, it's obvious you just have it out for the coach and are making up lame arguments to rail on him.
You want a great way to ruin a young QB's confidence? Bring him in for his first college action into a hostile environment against a top 10 caliber team. That works in your favor almost 0% of the time. Keep in mind WVU was 3-0 going into the OU game, Howard had over 900 passing yards, 9TD and 1 INT, but yeah, yeah lets bench his ass!
I guess this shouldn't be surprising coming from the guy that called Skyler the worst QB in the Big 12.
By QB ratings for 2015, he absolutely was. I gave you a link to the ratings. In conference only, he was 99th of all FBS QBs. Check his in conference numbers if you can read.
As far as Coach Holgorsen goes, we all have a learning curve and occasional bad days. I want Holgorsen to succeed and become one of the best coaches in college football. He COULD have had 10 wins last season. I hope he does in 2016. Hate the sin and love the sinner. He went through a tough time transitioning from OC to HC against Big 12 competition. This year is the final exam for his learning experience. Let's hope he aces it.
Yeah, your link also said Deshaun Watson was the 12th best QB and Prescott was the 22nd best QB. There goes your credibility.
Skyler Howard in 2015 - 32 total TDs, and just over 3600 total yards
Texas QBs in 2015 - 24 total TDs and just over 2700 total yards
Iowa State QBs in 2015 - 23 total TDs, and just over and just over 3000 total yards
Kansas QBs in 2015 - 13 total TDs, not quite 3000 yards.
But Skyler was the worst in the Big 12, how exactly?
Completion percentage overall. All stats in conference. Live in whatever fantasy you choose. You can check every game on the WVU schedule for 2015 as presented by ESPN for the stats if you'd like. I'm not your secretary and I've already done it for myself.
No, you're supposed to hit ignore. Compared to you, I am an authority. I do actual research and do not make assumptions about the future.
What assumptions did I make?
An authority on what?
Why should I ignore someone I'm having a conversation with?
Share what you've seen. I don't see the harm.
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You linked a page to Howards stats, cool. 32 total TDs and you say the kid sucked. Bashing on a student athlete that's given his heart and soul to this program...
Tell us about what Chugs is like in practice.
Why trash a good kid? He plays hard and does what he can. Don't be a dick.
Are you kidding? Dana is a bonehead for not burning a redshirt and putting Chugs in on the road against OU in a close contest
In the words of Coach Holgorsen and Coach Seider: "Chugs makes all of the throws and does it easily. He knows the offense and he gets it" "He's the most accurate passer of the bunch from the pocket."
During the two weeks toward the end of the 2015 season, Howard and Crest were both nursing injuries and missed practices for most of two weeks. Coach Holgorsen volunteered this at a recorded 'presser' and said Chugunov had been running with the ones. Coach said Chugs did "Very, very well."
Given Crest's lack of passing ability as well as Sills, Chugs redshirt should have been burned not during the Oklahoma game but during the OSU game when Howard was turning the ball over repeatedly. Then Chugs would have been the backup getting the backup reps. When Howard's ankle was very hobbled against KSU inserting Chugs would have been no big deal and totally expected. Except by KSU.
I am not a Howard hater. He is one of the most dedicated players I have ever seen and tough as nails. Sometimes he seems to believe he has to take the ball and win a game himself. He doesn't. He knows he has been inconsistent passing and he knows why. He is either dead on or way off. He really impressed me during the Spring scrimmage at the Greenbrier. He was dead on with good decisions 80% of the time.
Cody Saunders shocked me with his passing and running. Crest is a running back who wants to throw the ball!
During the two weeks toward the end of the 2015 season, Howard and Crest were both nursing injuries and missed practices for most of two weeks. Coach Holgorsen volunteered this at a recorded 'presser' and said Chugunov had been running with the ones. Coach said Chugs did "Very, very well."
Given Crest's lack of passing ability as well as Sills, Chugs redshirt should have been burned not during the Oklahoma game but during the OSU game when Howard was turning the ball over repeatedly. Then Chugs would have been the backup getting the backup reps. When Howard's ankle was very hobbled against KSU inserting Chugs would have been no big deal and totally expected. Except by KSU.
I am not a Howard hater. He is one of the most dedicated players I have ever seen and tough as nails. Sometimes he seems to believe he has to take the ball and win a game himself. He doesn't. He knows he has been inconsistent passing and he knows why. He is either dead on or way off. He really impressed me during the Spring scrimmage at the Greenbrier. He was dead on with good decisions 80% of the time.
Cody Saunders shocked me with his passing and running. Crest is a running back who wants to throw the ball!
You implied that you've watched Chugs practice and that you have practice video. I'd welcome your own personal assessment of the material you've witnessed first-hand.
You can't say you're not Howard hater when in your last post you said he sucks as a QB. What's with you? You drunk or something?
I agree with the coaches' assessment of Chugs. Saying Howard sucked at the QB position in 2015 does not mean he's not a hard nosed player determined to win. It also does not mean he will suck in 2016. I can say anything I want and my sobriety is none of your business. Are you drunk, or just a little single minded?
I have no personal beef with you. You don't seem to understand the data I link you to. Did you see where Howard was under 50% in completions in four games last season? Or his in conference TD to INT ratio? He is a quality young man who I would hire as an employer. He will make an incredible coach if he so chooses. When it comes to throwing accurate passes to the correct receiver he has been very inconsistent. Until the final Spring scrimmage. Then he was good except for two runs and one 'pick six' he would love to have back. He was better than good, he put on a clinic.
So you're stating, on the record, that after personally watching Chugs, first-hand, in practice, that you agree with the coaches assessment mentioned in the article you linked during the course of this discussion?
I am saying from what I have seen one time first hand as well as a bunch of video. There is no 'on the record' and if you do not agree then watch him yourself. There will be many opportunities during the seven on sevens this summer. There won't be any guards posted. I'm not always in South Carolina. I'm in WV right now.
If you're willing to publicly insult, and disparage a "quality young man" who has done nothing but work hard, I would not work for you, and while you may not have a beef with me, I now certainly have a beef with you.
Learn some manners. Shame on you.
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So you've seen him play first hand one time, and based on that viewing you feel DH should have benched Howard against OU?
Stop throwing you're opinion around here like it carries any weight.
