Lyons and Holgorsen

[wvmountydog]

3. Those close to West Virginia's program aren't sure if there's a certain win total that Dana Holgorsen's team has to reach for Holgorsen to keep his job. But since 2014, Holgorsen has seen a new school president and a new athletic director brought in, putting him in a precarious position.

Compounding that, AD Shane Lyons and Holgorsen have a bit of a history. They worked together at Texas Tech when Lyons was a young administrator and Holgorsen was a young position coach. And they didn't care for each other, those who know them told Insider. It creates some context for the seeming tension at WVU. Holgorsen has only two years left on his contract after discussions over an extension broke down last winter.

"We'll see how it plays out, but I'm expecting that one to open," one agent told Insider.

http://espn.go.com/blog/travis-haney/insider/post?id=5289

 

[eerdoc]

3. Those close to West Virginia's program aren't sure if there's a certain win total that Dana Holgorsen's team has to reach for Holgorsen to keep his job. But since 2014, Holgorsen has seen a new school president and a new athletic director brought in, putting him in a precarious position.

Compounding that, AD Shane Lyons and Holgorsen have a bit of a history. They worked together at Texas Tech when Lyons was a young administrator and Holgorsen was a young position coach. And they didn't care for each other, those who know them told Insider. It creates some context for the seeming tension at WVU. Holgorsen has only two years left on his contract after discussions over an extension broke down last winter.

"We'll see how it plays out, but I'm expecting that one to open," one agent told Insider.

http://espn.go.com/blog/travis-haney/insider/post?id=5289

I don't think there is a situation under which Dana returns for 2017. If his win total is not satisfactory to Lyons he will be fired. If he exceeds expectations and wins big he will look for and find another job where the AD is not an antagonist. either way he is gone and all the recruiting info (with commits) is so much hot air and misleading to the kids. He and the staff will NOT be coaching WVU after January of this year and the recruiting process is but a formality and meaningless. Kids will commit to THIS staff and beat a path elsewhere as soon as the chips begin to fall during or after this season. SAD indeed. Too bad we hired a AD with bias toward our current HC. Does not say a lot positive for the professionalism of Mr. Lyons. I fear he will do a great job of destroying the program and its recent growth. Look for 2017 and a few year beyond to be sub 0.500 seasons. Thank you Shane.

 

[GetYaNumbersUp]

I don't think there is a situation under which Dana returns for 2017. If his win total is not satisfactory to Lyons he will be fired. If he exceeds expectations and wins big he will look for and find another job where the AD is not an antagonist. either way he is gone and all the recruiting info (with commits) is so much hot air and misleading to the kids. He and the staff will NOT be coaching WVU after January of this year and the recruiting process is but a formality and meaningless. Kids will commit to THIS staff and beat a path elsewhere as soon as the chips begin to fall during or after this season. SAD indeed. Too bad we hired a AD with bias toward our current HC. Does not say a lot positive for the professionalism of Mr. Lyons. I fear he will do a great job of destroying the program and its recent growth. Look for 2017 and a few year beyond to be sub 0.500 seasons. Thank you Shane.

I fear you are correct. Not that I think Dana has been great, but I am fully expecting Lyons to mess this up. Apparently the guy is a total prick.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

WVU would be better off keeping Dana than Lyons...

 

[Orlaco]

WVU would be better off keeping Dana than Lyons...

Yea...so ?

Who is in charge ? The new AD or a coach with very questionable results (based on actual performance) ?

------


...and I'm not actually saying I disagree with you.

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

If Holgorson is to be fired after this season its because he simply failed to produce satisfactory results as for Lyons there is no telling who he would hire but he can't do any worse than luck did

 

[KeatonsCorner]

Yea...so ?

Who is in charge ? The new AD or a coach with very questionable results (based on actual performance) ?

------


...and I'm not actually saying I disagree with you.

Kendrick, duh..... Rod for AD

 

[NCNEER]

WVU would be better off keeping Dana than Lyons...

No shit!!!

 

[GetYaNumbersUp]

he can't do any worse than luck did

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

Well if Lyons makes an unsuccessful hire the result would be the same as Luck

 

[GoWVU]

Too bad we hired a AD with bias toward our current HC. Does not say a lot positive for the professionalism of Mr. Lyons. I fear he will do a great job of destroying the program and its recent growth. Look for 2017 and a few year beyond to be sub 0.500 seasons. Thank you Shane.

Yes, an AD who has been on the job only since January 2015 will be responsible for "destroying the program." It couldn't possibly be the fault of a football coach who has gotten us stuck on a gerbil wheel of endless mediocrity since joining the Big 12! What "recent growth" has he produced?

Furthermore, IF--and that's an awfully big assumption--we have an AD with a bias against our current football coach, then that is the fault of the administration and not the AD himself. If such an allegation were both A) true and B) widely known enough to appear in an ESPN Insider article, then by definition it would also be widely known enough that our administration would discover it with even a remote amount of due diligence during the hiring process. That means our administration is either 1) negligent or 2) confident the allegation is a non-issue.

Does not say a lot positive for the professionalism of our fans that a few are suddenly bad-mouthing our fledgling AD based on nothing more than hearsay. Oh, and the fact that he apparently doesn't join them in worshipping at the altar of an underperforming football coach.

Any losing football seasons that may lie in our future are 100% squarely on the shoulders of Dana Holgorsen not recruiting well enough and not coaching well enough. They sure as hell won't be because mean old Lyons didn't extend poor little Dana for rolling up a world-beating 31-28 record against FBS opponents.

 

[GetYaNumbersUp]

By all accounts Lyons doesn't like Coach H so he should have just fired him, but he didn't have the balls to do and now we are stuck in this position.

Quite honestly the administration has been a joke for a decade now. All the RR drama, the Stew hiring process, the coach in waiting fiasco, the media rights lawsuit, and now this latest blunder by Lyons have all been embarrassing for our school.

I'm not a fan of the way NCAA coaches contracts are structured for recruiting purposes, but it's the name of the game. Make a decision Shane, doing nothing is not the answer.

 

[Rootmaster]

"where the AD is not an antagonist"...guess is that you are a DH lover. Actually unless DH shows some serious progress, then the "antagonist" should fire his ass. Better to start again instead of repeating the mistakes of this HC.

 

[dave]

WVU would be better off keeping Dana than Lyons...

Lolz

 

[writeon]

Actually, no opinion expressed in this thread means anything because all are colored by bias for or against Holgs.

 

[MikeRafone]

Kendrick, duh..... Rod for AD

Kenny Bob needs to worry about his baseball team getting smacked in the local ratings year after year by Futbol instead of sticking his pointy nose into WVU sports.

 

[KeatonsCorner]

Lolz

You're probably too old to say lolz


Stop

 

[MikeRafone]

I know I am. It would be like a 18 year old saying, "Hey man, you wanna go smoke some reefer."

Aw crap..... now the damned hairy assed hipsters are gonna start saying "reefer".

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

By all accounts Lyons doesn't like Coach H so he should have just fired him, but he didn't have the balls to do and now we are stuck in this position.

Quite honestly the administration has been a joke for a decade now. All the RR drama, the Stew hiring process, the coach in waiting fiasco, the media rights lawsuit, and now this latest blunder by Lyons have all been embarrassing for our school.

I'm not a fan of the way NCAA coaches contracts are structured for recruiting purposes, but it's the name of the game. Make a decision Shane, doing nothing is not the answer.

If Lyons doesn't like holgorson like you say would you have wanted him to fire him last season pay the 8 million that it would have cost to buy him and his staff out and pay another 8 million or so on what would probably not have been your top choice considering all the coaching vacancies that existed last season?

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

I know I am. It would be like a 18 year old saying, "Hey man, you wanna go smoke some reefer."

Aw crap..... now the damned hairy assed hipsters are gonna start saying "reefer".

Kenny was not a fan of the Stewart Hiring and stated he was optimistic when Holgorson was hired .If he has changed his mind concerning Holgorson its simply because DH has failed to meet his expectations

 

[dave]

You're probably too old to say lolz


Stop

LOLZ clown.

 

[ThePunish-EER]

I don't think there is a situation under which Dana returns for 2017. If his win total is not satisfactory to Lyons he will be fired. If he exceeds expectations and wins big he will look for and find another job where the AD is not an antagonist. either way he is gone and all the recruiting info (with commits) is so much hot air and misleading to the kids. He and the staff will NOT be coaching WVU after January of this year and the recruiting process is but a formality and meaningless. Kids will commit to THIS staff and beat a path elsewhere as soon as the chips begin to fall during or after this season. SAD indeed. Too bad we hired a AD with bias toward our current HC. Does not say a lot positive for the professionalism of Mr. Lyons. I fear he will do a great job of destroying the program and its recent growth. Look for 2017 and a few year beyond to be sub 0.500 seasons. Thank you Shane.

lets be honest. Lyons was only hired because he's a WV native that held a similar position (assistant to the Alabama AD). That's all they looked at.

 

[steeleer]

Yes, an AD who has been on the job only since January 2015 will be responsible for "destroying the program." It couldn't possibly be the fault of a football coach who has gotten us stuck on a gerbil wheel of endless mediocrity since joining the Big 12! What "recent growth" has he produced?

Furthermore, IF--and that's an awfully big assumption--we have an AD with a bias against our current football coach, then that is the fault of the administration and not the AD himself. If such an allegation were both A) true and B) widely known enough to appear in an ESPN Insider article, then by definition it would also be widely known enough that our administration would discover it with even a remote amount of due diligence during the hiring process. That means our administration is either 1) negligent or 2) confident the allegation is a non-issue.

Does not say a lot positive for the professionalism of our fans that a few are suddenly bad-mouthing our fledgling AD based on nothing more than hearsay. Oh, and the fact that he apparently doesn't join them in worshipping at the altar of an underperforming football coach.

Any losing football seasons that may lie in our future are 100% squarely on the shoulders of Dana Holgorsen not recruiting well enough and not coaching well enough. They sure as hell won't be because mean old Lyons didn't extend poor little Dana for rolling up a world-beating 31-28 record against FBS opponents.

Don't forget 3) They knew this history and wanted someone to clear out Dana and have some SEC connections for his next hire. Hiring someone with this history was an obvious message to Dana. You are no longer wanted. Why else hire someone who has a bad history with the HC?

 

[GoWVU]

Don't forget 3) They knew this history and wanted someone to clear out Dana and have some SEC connections for his next hire. Hiring someone with this history was an obvious message to Dana. You are no longer wanted. Why else hire someone who has a bad history with the HC?

I considered that possibility, but dismissed it for one simple reason: If the administration already had decided to "clear out Dana" at the time the AD hire was made 15 months ago, then Holgorsen would be gone now.

The fact that he isn't tells us something other than your #3 hypothetical was the administration's primary concern.

To answer your final question of "why else hire someone who had a bad history" with the football coach, that also is very simple--because the administration believed Lyons would be the best boss for ALL the head coaches here.

 

[TIREPUNK]

Yes, an AD who has been on the job only since January 2015 will be responsible for "destroying the program." It couldn't possibly be the fault of a football coach who has gotten us stuck on a gerbil wheel of endless mediocrity since joining the Big 12! What "recent growth" has he produced?

Furthermore, IF--and that's an awfully big assumption--we have an AD with a bias against our current football coach, then that is the fault of the administration and not the AD himself. If such an allegation were both A) true and B) widely known enough to appear in an ESPN Insider article, then by definition it would also be widely known enough that our administration would discover it with even a remote amount of due diligence during the hiring process. That means our administration is either 1) negligent or 2) confident the allegation is a non-issue.

Does not say a lot positive for the professionalism of our fans that a few are suddenly bad-mouthing our fledgling AD based on nothing more than hearsay. Oh, and the fact that he apparently doesn't join them in worshipping at the altar of an underperforming football coach.

Any losing football seasons that may lie in our future are 100% squarely on the shoulders of Dana Holgorsen not recruiting well enough and not coaching well enough. They sure as hell won't be because mean old Lyons didn't extend poor little Dana for rolling up a world-beating 31-28 record against FBS opponents.

Nailed it.....^^^^^

I have met Bob Huggins, extremely nice guy.

I have met Dana Holgorsen, extremely big douche.

Maybe Shane just knows what a lot of other people don't

 

[Darth_VadEER]

Don't forget 3) They knew this history and wanted someone to clear out Dana and have some SEC connections for his next hire. Hiring someone with this history was an obvious message to Dana. You are no longer wanted. Why else hire someone who has a bad history with the HC?

Well Lyons had his chance and didn't pull the trigger and you can't tell me they needed someone with bad blood to dump Dana. The guy has zero political capital to fight off a termination.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

Nailed it.....^^^^^

I have met Bob Huggins, extremely nice guy.

I have met Dana Holgorsen, extremely big douche.

Maybe Shane just knows what a lot of other people don't

I've met Dana and thought he was good enough. Huggins has always been pleasant.

Most politicians I've met all seemed like great guys....ya dig?

 

[pressvirginia]

I agree with numbersup & go wvu.

I'm biased toward winning. Doesn't matter who or how.

 

[steeleer]

I considered that possibility, but dismissed it for one simple reason: If the administration already had decided to "clear out Dana" at the time the AD hire was made 15 months ago, then Holgorsen would be gone now.

The fact that he isn't tells us something other than your #3 hypothetical was the administration's primary concern.

To answer your final question of "why else hire someone who had a bad history" with the football coach, that also is very simple--because the administration believed Lyons would be the best boss for ALL the head coaches here.

The only reason Dana wasn't fired 2 years ago is $$$$. That's it. Lyons hire was to send a message.

Huggs is a big deal, but even he would tell you football drives the bus here. You don't hire someone that will totally piss off your Football HC by accident.

 

[steeleer]

Well Lyons had his chance and didn't pull the trigger and you can't tell me they needed someone with bad blood to dump Dana. The guy has zero political capital to fight off a termination.

Again....$$$$$$$. Maybe they though Lyons could make him miserable enough to quit. Hopefully no one there is that dumb. Not for that dough.

 

[There goes the Major]

I don't think there is a situation under which Dana returns for 2017. If his win total is not satisfactory to Lyons he will be fired. If he exceeds expectations and wins big he will look for and find another job where the AD is not an antagonist. either way he is gone and all the recruiting info (with commits) is so much hot air and misleading to the kids. He and the staff will NOT be coaching WVU after January of this year and the recruiting process is but a formality and meaningless. Kids will commit to THIS staff and beat a path elsewhere as soon as the chips begin to fall during or after this season. SAD indeed. Too bad we hired a AD with bias toward our current HC. Does not say a lot positive for the professionalism of Mr. Lyons. I fear he will do a great job of destroying the program and its recent growth. Look for 2017 and a few year beyond to be sub 0.500 seasons. Thank you Shane.

Just because Holgs has a good season does not mean there is a suitable new opening somewhere. The best choice may be to stick around. I don't think one great season at WVU opens up any new doors for Holgs. And winning cures a lot, so who knows how well they can end up getting along, especially if rumors of a rift of significance are nothing more than something for a writer to type on a website.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

Again....$$$$$$$. Maybe they though Lyons could make him miserable enough to quit. Hopefully no one there is that dumb. Not for that dough.

I don't think any decision maker at WVU felt DH would simply quit his job, leave $8 million on the table, just because of a bad relationship with the AD.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

The only reason Dana wasn't fired 2 years ago is $$$$. That's it. Lyons hire was to send a message.

Huggs is a big deal, but even he would tell you football drives the bus here. You don't hire someone that will totally piss off your Football HC by accident.

And what message was sent? DH is still coaching at WVU and people now seem unsure of Lyons abilities and the program looks as confused as ever.

If you want to send a message, fire him. He'll recieve that message loud and clear.

I'm not sure why WVU self-inflicts these unnecessary dramas.

I think Babcock was who we wanted and needed but the timing and politics were wrong, and if there's an AD out there with a great track record of hiring coaches it's Babcock...great hires at Cincinnati and VT.

 

[3xWVUenginEER]

I've met Dana and thought he was good enough. Huggins has always been pleasant.

Most politicians I've met all seemed like great guys....ya dig?

We have a winner.

They want your $$$$$ (keep your $0.02 to yourself) and support and not much more. I got no issue with it. Just coach the team & keep me entertained.

People thought Rodrguez was a "WVU Guy" (Well I didn't but most did), and everyone saw how that turned out. I knew that guy was a phoney. Should have been a used car salesman or a politician.

I will say Hughins is more genuine and honest than most in good ways and bad, which is good. I actually like Dana the same reason I like Huggins, ie he doesn't give a flip what anyone thinks and he does it his way. They got a Bellicheck PR about them, especially with traditional media.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

We have a winner.

They want your $$$$$ (keep your $0.02 to yourself) and support and not much more. I got no issue with it. Just coach the team & keep me entertained.

People thought Rodrguez was a "WVU Guy" (Well I didn't but most did), and everyone saw how that turned out. I knew that guy was a phoney. Should have been a used car salesman or a politician.

I will say Hughins is more genuine and honest than most in good ways and bad, which is good. I actually like Dana the same reason I like Huggins, ie he doesn't give a flip what anyone thinks and he does it his way. They got a Bellicheck PR about them, especially with traditional media.

They don't come much more friendly than Bill Stewart, and his likeability wasn't enough to save him.

 

[Boomboom521]

An AD is measured on MUCH more than the football team, in my opinion. OL was a great AD. He found us a new conference in a VERY unstable time. His hire of Holgorsen was smart, even though it seems to not be working. He was a top OC in the conference was were joining, and his system used a lot of the elements of talent that were already in place under Rod and Stewart.
OL did well in other sports as well, and secured the funds to begin improving our facilities in many sports (baseball, football, soccer, and basketball).
Lyons needs more time for judgement. I think he was smart to negotiate with Dana last off season. A new school friendly deal COULD HAVE been struck (never know). At the least, it sends a message that we are not happy with how things stand (Dana is not earning his contract, and either his salary should be lowered as he attempts to raise the quality of the program, or we just simply won't renew the contract).
It sucks because we want to win, and now feel like if it does work out with Dana, he will leave because he was disrespected. But how do we know the negotiation wasn't a "show me and get paid" type of conversation? If Lyons said...."Dana you are not producing at the level of your current contract, but I want you here long term. Let's renegotiate a longer contract at a lower salary (equal to your current production)." Then when Dana said "no". Lyons said, "ok, produce next season, and I'll give you the contract that will make you happy for a long period." ????

 

[ThePunish-EER]

An AD is measured on MUCH more than the football team, in my opinion. OL was a great AD. He found us a new conference in a VERY unstable time. His hire of Holgorsen was smart, even though it seems to not be working. He was a top OC in the conference was were joining, and his system used a lot of the elements of talent that were already in place under Rod and Stewart.
OL did well in other sports as well, and secured the funds to begin improving our facilities in many sports (baseball, football, soccer, and basketball).
Lyons needs more time for judgement. I think he was smart to negotiate with Dana last off season. A new school friendly deal COULD HAVE been struck (never know). At the least, it sends a message that we are not happy with how things stand (Dana is not earning his contract, and either his salary should be lowered as he attempts to raise the quality of the program, or we just simply won't renew the contract).
It sucks because we want to win, and now feel like if it does work out with Dana, he will leave because he was disrespected. But how do we know the negotiation wasn't a "show me and get paid" type of conversation? If Lyons said...."Dana you are not producing at the level of your current contract, but I want you here long term. Let's renegotiate a longer contract at a lower salary (equal to your current production)." Then when Dana said "no". Lyons said, "ok, produce next season, and I'll give you the contract that will make you happy for a long period." ????

Actually Dana is producing above his contract. He averages 4-5th place in the big 12 with the 8th highest salary in a 10 team conference. He deserves a raise. Not a reduction lol

 

[Boomboom521]

Actually Dana is producing above his contract. He averages 4-5th place in the big 12 with the 8th highest salary in a 10 team conference. He deserves a raise. Not a reduction lol

Really? I thought he has a pretty sweet contract. I really don't feel like he should be given a raise though. Is that what you're saying? If this is just a lame duck situation, I don't think any negotiation would have taken place.

 

[Boomboom521]

Actually Dana is producing above his contract. He averages 4-5th place in the big 12 with the 8th highest salary in a 10 team conference. He deserves a raise. Not a reduction lol

Didn't we finish 7th, 8th, 5th, and 6th?

 

[coalcountry52]

I fear you are correct. Not that I think Dana has been great, but I am fully expecting Lyons to mess this up. Apparently the guy is a total prick.

When you could easily pull off an Emperor Palpatine cosplay, I wouldn't have high confidence in you being that nice of a person.

Yes, Shane is Palpatine.