WVU Release Neal Brown contract extension

[Jason Voorhees]

The BIG 12 was as down last year as it has ever been and Brown managed 4 wins in conference, one against Kansas, and one win against an fcs squad. Every team with a pulse he lost to.

Theres no evidence he wouldve even competed in the OOC games that were canceled, so no he doesnt get credit for imaginary wins.

The only time Dana ever had good seasons is when the Big 12 was down. In 2016 when he won 10 games the only other Big 12 teams that ended up ranked were Oklahoma and Oklahoma state and wvu got blown out by both. Then he played an unranked Miami team in the bowl game and got blown out. In 2018 the team you keep saying was 3 points away from playing for a title. Dana lost to an unranked Iowa state team and then he later blew a 17 point lead to a weak Oklahoma state team that finished the regular season 6-6. Then he got blown out by Syracuse in the bowl game. Wvu did beat Texas in 2018 and it was the 1st time Dana ended up beating a team that finished ranked in 4 years. Get your facts straight.

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

He never laid a solid foundation but he got descent results. He had a couple teams that would have went undefeated or close to it in the Big East. He did good with the talent he had.

There are so many things about being a head coach. Schmoozing donors, recruiting kids, evaluating talented assistants, knowing who on staff can be delegated to on a hands off approach and knowing who had have oversight, developing a player to their strengths, knowing the X's and O's, etc... A head coach needs to see the big picture, but also be able to be meticulous at a fundamental level for even the smallest aspect of the game. DH was minimum and maximum. What he was good at he was really good at, like X's and O's. What he was bad at he was REALLY bad at like meticulous detail on defense or knowing how to handle his staff. It resulted in an average at best head coaching job. Shame really, because the guy deserves credit for his offensive prowess and had he just a bit more self discipline and work ethic, his talent could've made him above average.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Laughable and sad at the same time- posters that spent every day of the previous staffs time at WVU bashing and attacking, putting down every accomplishment, blowing up every mistep, doing everything they could to ruin WVUs program, chase off players, fans, coaches etc-- now talking $h!t about someone because I discuus simple facts about the coach at WVU now. In troll strategy I believe that falls under " if you cant attack the message" --in this case facts--"attack the messenger."

You are picking and choosing your facts. You pigeon hole whatever fits into what lie pumps your princes up more.

Players are transferring from every program in the country but you refuse to open your eyes to it. Did you know Holgs still owns the record for most players leaving in a season?

If you can't handle your lies being exposed then I suggest you leave.

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

I'm not sure about you, but at all the important jobs I have ever had, the first 2 years mattered.

Not all jobs are the same. If your job is to be a cog in a fast food assembly line, then it is reasonable to assess an employee's performance after a few weeks. The manager for that same fast food restaurant may take several weeks before a full assessment can be made. A regional manager for the fast food franchise, especially if assuming control after a less than stellar predecessor, may need months before a solid assessment of their performance can be made. The point is not that the early phases of the job are unimportant, but rather there is a time frame from the start of a job and the time at which the employer should expect peak performance by the employee. Head coach at WVU needs more than 2 years to expect the program to be running at peak efficiency.

 

[Rootmaster]

He never laid a solid foundation but he got descent results. He had a couple teams that would have went undefeated or close to it in the Big East. He did good with the talent he had.

Lol...and just who made the decision to recruit that less than talented group?

 

[WV Bruno]

Lol...and just who made the decision to recruit that less than talented group?

He brought in a lot of transfers. He never could land a high school QB.

 

[WV Bruno]

There are so many things about being a head coach. Schmoozing donors, recruiting kids, evaluating talented assistants, knowing who on staff can be delegated to on a hands off approach and knowing who had have oversight, developing a player to their strengths, knowing the X's and O's, etc... A head coach needs to see the big picture, but also be able to be meticulous at a fundamental level for even the smallest aspect of the game. DH was minimum and maximum. What he was good at he was really good at, like X's and O's. What he was bad at he was REALLY bad at like meticulous detail on defense or knowing how to handle his staff. It resulted in an average at best head coaching job. Shame really, because the guy deserves credit for his offensive prowess and had he just a bit more self discipline and work ethic, his talent could've made him above average.

If he had a disciplined team he would have had a couple really huge seasons.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

If this extension doesnt add money to a buyout, this is mostly ceremonial....

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

He brought in a lot of transfers. He never could land a high school QB.

I think DH and his staff's worst attribute was developing players. While some did, others did not and nowhere was this more apparent than at QB. I doubt that Millard, Childress, Moore, Crest, Chugunov, Saunders, Israel, and Lowe were ALL complete busts incapable of being a Brad Lewis level back-up QB. Yet none of them could even do a marginal job leading the very QB friendly offense and thus WVU was forced to rely on transfers like Trickett, Howard, and Grier.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

I think DH and his staff's worst attribute was developing players. While some did, others did not and nowhere was this more apparent than at QB. I doubt that Millard, Childress, Moore, Crest, Chugunov, Saunders, Israel, and Lowe were ALL complete busts incapable of being a Brad Lewis level back-up QB. Yet none of them could even do a marginal job leading the very QB friendly offense and thus WVU was forced to rely on transfers like Trickett, Howard, and Grier.

LOL - being "forced" to have Grier be a 2 year starter was a very good thing.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

I wouldnt agree that he didnt lay a solid foundation. The last four years WVU was trending up in wins averaging over 8 wins per year. Two of the last 4 WVU finished at 16 in the playoff rankngs too.. The main problem was that the defense could never stop anyone no matter how many points the offense scored. But Holgorsen did not appear to be picking his own d coordinators for most of his time at WVU.

WVU should have searched for the best possible d coordinator much like Clemson did rather than insisting on someone with WVU ties as they did.

Like most talented young coaches that establish some success, Coach Holgorsen has certainly gone on to prove what a quality head coach he truly is. His 2 year 7-13 record at Houston speaks for itself

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

LOL - being "forced" to have Grier be a 2 year starter was a very good thing.

No one said it wasn't, but when you only have one viable option you are "forced" into taking that option even if it is really good. WVU was also "forced" to have it's hope for any kind of successful season rest on the health of those transfer QBs as we all saw what happened when one of them was injured. When Rasheed Marshall or Pat White were injured, WVU may not have been as good, but wasn't completely useless with Hales or Brown respectively filling in. Contrast that to when Trickett or Grier missed a game.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

No one said it wasn't, but when you only have one viable option you are "forced" into taking that option even if it is really good. WVU was also "forced" to have it's hope for any kind of successful season rest on the health of those transfer QBs as we all saw what happened when one of them was injured. When Rasheed Marshall or Pat White were injured, WVU may not have been as good, but wasn't completely useless with Hales or Brown respectively filling in. Contrast that to when Trickett or Grier missed a game.

We saw what happens if PW gets injured...when Trickett got injured we plugged in Howard who did a good job.

Most schools successes rely on their starting QB.

 

[SeronimusPratt]

Dana sucks as much as Bucky

 

[WVUFanForever]

Dana sucks as much as Bucky

He certainly has turned Houston into a shit show hasnt he.

 

[Volatility]

Love the commitment from Lyons! I would have liked to see the Staff Salary increased to $4.5-$5mill... A very under-the-radar offseason hire was NB hiring Kirk C.. As a 247 analyst/writer puts it a "Saban-esk hire"...

Having a quality HC is just one piece of a very large puzzle needed to build a more consistent competitor. If we want to obtain the realistic ceiling for WVU(Which in my mind, is being able to compete for a BIG12 title 1 in 3 years, with our "down years" still having 9-10 wins). When looking at all the disadvantages WVU has compared to other programs, its imperative we hire a quality coaching staff, analysts, & supporting staff.. While we hope NB can identify coaching talent @Value, sometimes you gotta hire that "Splash guy" to stoke excitement within recruiting. As long as its a splash, because hes a quality coach, recruiter, teacher, developer, & creative leader of young men. We'll never be able to financially compete with the likes of Alabama, UGA, OSU, Texas, etc.. However, between giving a little more wiggle room within the Staff budget, and NB's ability to find value, it could be enough to get us where we want to be.

In any case, and no matter if we had $100mill to spend, it would still take 5 YEARS to build, considering the depths of hell the program needed to be pulled from. Our starting point was extremely poor, and that matters when trying to build a program. Who do you think has an easier path, Neal Brown or Josh Heupel?? Tenn is always sold out, far wealthier & larger fanbase, far wealthier donor base, far wealthier local talent, geographically centered for talent acquisition...

Building at WVU requires a special breed & type of coach who knows how to leverage creativity, and every variable to extract a possible edge in every facet of building, developing, scheming, & coaching...

I really like Brown, because he's shown the ability to be extremely detailed oriented about every detail within his program & culture... Nothing seems to slip his mind.. Considering the talent he's brought in, its better to lock him up now for far less $$, then waiting until those players are optimized. This was a great decision for Lyons, it ultimately saved us money, by doing it now, rather then later, and IM absolutely positive Lyons seriously analyzed the potential for Brown to perform well in the future, due to the way he's building and knew.....KNEW acting now would ultimately save the university money. Which can be saved for facilities, or allocated on NB's next extension when he's truly shown significant success... Compound the savings now, so we can compete with other offers NB will surely receive later on. My only hope is Kentucky remains good enough they hold onto their HC for the next 10+ years... That would be my only concern, even if we could match, not sure if Brown would choose to stay or not. Hopefully by then his family is already firmly cemented within the community.

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

We saw what happens if PW gets injured...when Trickett got injured we plugged in Howard who did a good job.

Most schools successes rely on their starting QB.

When PW was injured Jarrett Brown beat a ranked Rutgers squad. I think he'd have beaten Pitt in '07 if RRod let him play and run the offense. Just a modicum of passing ability could've carried that day. Trickett was concussed and ineffective for an entire quarter against a ranked TCU squad and Howard wasn't called upon. Same thing the following game against Texas. When Howard was called upon he lost a winnable game to K State. In Howard's defense, he was much better once he got to know the offense the following year since Holgorsen could only seem to focus on one QB at a time. Meanwhile team's like Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, and Baylor have trotted out their back-up QB against WVU in recent years but did not have the drop off in effectiveness WVU seemed to have when a Holgorsen coached back-up QB came in.

 

[WV Bruno]

When PW was injured Jarrett Brown beat a ranked Rutgers squad. I think he'd have beaten Pitt in '07 if RRod let him play and run the offense. Just a modicum of passing ability could've carried that day. Trickett was concussed and ineffective for an entire quarter against a ranked TCU squad and Howard wasn't called upon. Same thing the following game against Texas. When Howard was called upon he lost a winnable game to K State. In Howard's defense, he was much better once he got to know the offense the following year since Holgorsen could only seem to focus on one QB at a time. Meanwhile team's like Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, and Baylor have trotted out their back-up QB against WVU in recent years but did not have the drop off in effectiveness WVU seemed to have when a Holgorsen coached back-up QB came in.

07 Pitt RR did not even let Pat throw the ball that game. Look what he did against OU in the bowl. I know some think RR threw that game but I disagree. I think he played as vanilla as possible thinking it would be the game Ohio State staff would view the most had WVU won and made the title game.

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

07 Pitt RR did not even let Pat throw the ball that game. Look what he did against OU in the bowl. I know some think RR threw that game but I disagree. I think he played as vanilla as possible thinking it would be the game Ohio State staff would view the most had WVU won and made the title game.

PW couldn't throw. He tweaked his thumb against UCONN the previous game and worsened it against sPitt. That's why they had no problems putting 9 in the box vs 3 receiver sets. Pat is great with his legs, but by midway through the 3rd quarter it was obvious they were selling out and daring WVU to throw. Even average passing skills could've gotten more than 9 points. Also having a kicker that was not hungover would've helped.

 

[WV Bruno]

PW couldn't throw. He tweaked his thumb against UCONN the previous game and worsened it against sPitt. That's why they had no problems putting 9 in the box vs 3 receiver sets. Pat is great with his legs, but by midway through the 3rd quarter it was obvious they were selling out and daring WVU to throw. Even average passing skills could've gotten more than 9 points. Also having a kicker that was not hungover would've helped.

Hungover? LOL.

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

Hungover? LOL.

Just my theory. A great kicker who hardly missed and had a reputation for partying pretty hard suddenly missed 2 chip shot field goals with EVERYTHING on the line. I bet he, like the whole team, was more worried about tiring out from too many extra points than having to make clutch plays to win a tight game. I could see that affecting decisions the night before or even morning of that game. Again, just my theory.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Just my theory. A great kicker who hardly missed and had a reputation for partying pretty hard suddenly missed 2 chip shot field goals with EVERYTHING on the line. I bet he, like the whole team, was more worried about tiring out from too many extra points than having to make clutch plays to win a tight game. I could see that affecting decisions the night before or even morning of that game. Again, just my theory.

That and the Pitt coaching staff finally got smart and went and talked to USF staff on how to beat WVU and it's zone read.

 

[Buckaineer]

Everything written above to excuse away DHs success, excuse Neal Browns failures shows a willful disregard of facts. The same things Holgorsen is bashed for Brown has done in triplicate— but you dont care if Brown does things like bringing in large numbers of transfers, not winning games etc.

Coach worship.

In the end WVU has two 5 win seasons under Brown, with last year being the easiest to win the BIG 12 has ever been, with everyone in the conference having at least two losses plus a short schedule— and Brown still didnt compete.

And the facts are the previous staff won more at WVU than any previous coach except one ( Nehlen) and against the toughest schedules ever faced.

 

[SeronimusPratt]

Everything written above to excuse away DHs success, excuse Neal Browns failures shows a willful disregard of facts. The same things Holgorsen is bashed for Brown has done in triplicate— but you dont care if Brown does things like bringing in large numbers of transfers, not winning games etc.

Coach worship.

In the end WVU has two 5 win seasons under Brown with last year being the easiest to win the BIG 12 has ever been with everyone in the conference having at least two losses plus a short schedule— and Brown still didnt compete.

And the facts are the previous staff won more at WVU than any previous coach except one ( Nehlen) and against the toughest schedules ever faced.

CRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

 

[WV Bruno]

That and the Pitt coaching staff finally got smart and went and talked to USF staff on how to beat WVU and it's zone read.

If you had good defensive ends you could shut down Rich's offenses.

 

[WVUALLEN]

If you had good defensive ends you could shut down Rich's offenses.

As well as disciplined DE that stayed at home.

 

[Buckaineer]

CRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Typical useless troll response.

I would imagine that the majority of actual WVU fans would be crying about WINS and LOSSES under the present coach.

5 wins is what WVU gets with Brown.

 

[Buckaineer]

Love the commitment from Lyons! I would have liked to see the Staff Salary increased to $4.5-$5mill... A very under-the-radar offseason hire was NB hiring Kirk C.. As a 247 analyst/writer puts it a "Saban-esk hire"...

Having a quality HC is just one piece of a very large puzzle needed to build a more consistent competitor. If we want to obtain the realistic ceiling for WVU(Which in my mind, is being able to compete for a BIG12 title 1 in 3 years, with our "down years" still having 9-10 wins). When looking at all the disadvantages WVU has compared to other programs, its imperative we hire a quality coaching staff, analysts, & supporting staff.. While we hope NB can identify coaching talent @Value, sometimes you gotta hire that "Splash guy" to stoke excitement within recruiting. As long as its a splash, because hes a quality coach, recruiter, teacher, developer, & creative leader of young men. We'll never be able to financially compete with the likes of Alabama, UGA, OSU, Texas, etc.. However, between giving a little more wiggle room within the Staff budget, and NB's ability to find value, it could be enough to get us where we want to be.

In any case, and no matter if we had $100mill to spend, it would still take 5 YEARS to build, considering the depths of hell the program needed to be pulled from. Our starting point was extremely poor, and that matters when trying to build a program. Who do you think has an easier path, Neal Brown or Josh Heupel?? Tenn is always sold out, far wealthier & larger fanbase, far wealthier donor base, far wealthier local talent, geographically centered for talent acquisition...

Building at WVU requires a special breed & type of coach who knows how to leverage creativity, and every variable to extract a possible edge in every facet of building, developing, scheming, & coaching...

I really like Brown, because he's shown the ability to be extremely detailed oriented about every detail within his program & culture... Nothing seems to slip his mind.. Considering the talent he's brought in, its better to lock him up now for far less $$, then waiting until those players are optimized. This was a great decision for Lyons, it ultimately saved us money, by doing it now, rather then later, and IM absolutely positive Lyons seriously analyzed the potential for Brown to perform well in the future, due to the way he's building and knew.....KNEW acting now would ultimately save the university money. Which can be saved for facilities, or allocated on NB's next extension when he's truly shown significant success... Compound the savings now, so we can compete with other offers NB will surely receive later on. My only hope is Kentucky remains good enough they hold onto their HC for the next 10+ years... That would be my only concern, even if we could match, not sure if Brown would choose to stay or not. Hopefully by then his family is already firmly cemented within the community.

All of the above is bunk.

Brown has demonstrated he can chase away players, score 14 or fewer points and win 5 games per season to date.

If that's what you want that's what you've got.

As a WVU fan, I want a coach that knows Xs and Os, can recruit and retain and most importantly win games. Someone that WILL get WVU into a BIG 12 CCG, WILL get WVU into major bowl games and maybe into the playoffs.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Typical useless troll response.

I would imagine that the majority of actual WVU fans would be crying about WINS and LOSSES under the present coach.

5 wins is what WVU gets with Brown.

Lacks knowledge of building a program.

 

[WVUALLEN]

All of the above is bunk.

Brown has demonstrated he can chase away players, score 14 or fewer points and win 5 games per season to date.

If that's what you want that's what you've got.

As a WVU fan, I want a coach that knows Xs and Os, can recruit and retain and most importantly win games. Someone that WILL get WVU into a BIG 12 CCG, WILL get WVU into major bowl games and maybe into the playoffs.

Show me a college team that doesn't have transfers. WVU in Big 12 CCG will only happen once a decade no matter who is coaching.

Didn't your boyfriend get 8 years to do that and failed? I believe 2 years is not enough and when the wins start coming I expect your troll ass to be gone for good only to come back as another profile supporting WVU.

 

[SeronimusPratt]

Typical useless troll response.

I would imagine that the majority of actual WVU fans would be crying about WINS and LOSSES under the present coach.

5 wins is what WVU gets with Brown.

CRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

DANA IS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONE

 

[Buckaineer]

Lacks knowledge of building a program.

Lacks knowledge of a program. WVU was averaging over 8 wins a season and was mere POINTS from playing in a BIG 12 CCG. Was ALREADY built.

 

[Buckaineer]

CRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

DANA IS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONE

AND BROWN HAS WVU LOSING.

Not sure who you root for, WVU fans want a winner, not excuses.

 

[Buckaineer]

Show me a college team that doesn't have transfers. WVU in Big 12 CCG will only happen once a decade no matter who is coaching.

Didn't your boyfriend get 8 years to do that and failed? I believe 2 years is not enough and when the wins start coming I expect your troll ass to be gone for good only to come back as another profile supporting WVU.

Yet, when Holgorsen lost a player here or there YOU BASHED HIM MERCILOUSLY.

Your boyfriend Brown is losing MORE than his share of players. He has lost half a team of players in just a couple of seasons. Players do not leave where they want to be.

Holgorsen won far more than he lost. Won the second most games EVER at WVU against the toughest schedules ever faced. Not sure where in the world that classifies as a FAIL?

Do you know what a FAIL is? 5 wins per season is a FAIL. Brown is even at wins at this point, because WVU canceled the OU game so he could eke out a G5 win in a bowl game to get above .500 last year.

 

[Buckaineer]

The reality of the situation is this. Players are going to be at a program 4 years or less.

You either get the absolute best players on the field whether they stay 4 years or one, or you push everyone out that won't comply to your thoughts of ownership and control of players and they go to programs that get it and want to win--which is the only reason a coach is at a school.

If you want a buddy of donors who can sit down and drink beers, hire someone to do that and then hire a head coach to win games.

The coach is brought in to win games and those programs that are successful find someone to do that against whatever odds that particular school faces. Since WVU isn't a "blue blood", then they must find the most successful non blue blood programs and emulate those programs as best as they are able to. You don't see those programs extending 5 win coaches that still have 4 wins remaining anyways.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

If you had good defensive ends you could shut down Rich's offenses.

He doesn't adjust.
He believes is his offense enough.

Reason why he won but also is the reason he is the at OC at UL Monroe.

At Ole Miss he had the best QB on the bench a lot of the times.
Didn't even know he was by far better QB and he was hurting the team by not playing him.



But that belief in his offense is why he ended up winning at a high level

Wouldn't have lasted.

 

[WV Bruno]

He doesn't adjust.
He believes is his offense enough.

Reason why he won but also is the reason he is the at OC at UL Monroe.

At Ole Miss he had the best QB on the bench a lot of the times.
Didn't even know he was by far better QB and he was hurting the team by not playing him.



But that belief in his offense is why he ended up winning at a high level

Wouldn't have lasted.

Initially teams did not know how to defend it. Once they figured it out and started to implement it throughout college football the secret was out. He would be doing in the Big 12 exactly what Dana did. He would be posting 7-5 records with a bump up to two more wins here and there. WVU is not an easy gig and the transfer portal made it tougher. RR's final recruiting class here was terrible as well. There would have been a drastic dip and he knew it.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

Initially teams did not know how to defend it. Once they figured it out and started to implement it throughout college football the secret was out. He would be doing in the Big 12 exactly what Dana did. He would be posting 7-5 records with a bump up to two more wins here and there. WVU is not an easy gig and the transfer portal made it tougher. RR's final recruiting class here was terrible as well. There would have been a drastic dip and he knew it.

The plan for WVU should be improving the talent.
If those players leave it still helps WVU.

Just have to learn how to turn things into positives.

That means WVU is developing talent. Use that to get more. Not everyone is going to leave.
What if those players fail?
WVU then has proof why players should stay

 

[Buckaineer]

Initially teams did not know how to defend it. Once they figured it out and started to implement it throughout college football the secret was out. He would be doing in the Big 12 exactly what Dana did. He would be posting 7-5 records with a bump up to two more wins here and there. WVU is not an easy gig and the transfer portal made it tougher. RR's final recruiting class here was terrible as well. There would have been a drastic dip and he knew it.

Did RR's final recruiting class dip because he knew he was leaving and didn't put everything into it?

Holgorsen posted only 3 7-6 records. He also posted two 8 win records and two 10 win records, something always left out. One losing season the second year of the B12 dropped his overall "average" number of wins to right where WVU coaches have historically been--but that "average" has been used to pretend he didn't also produce two 8 wins and 2 10 win seasons. Rodriguez had a 3-8 season towards the beginning of his time at WVU.

Recruiting wise, Holgorsen pretty much maintained the historical average of WVU recruiting, the last full year of recruiting at WVU-2018, Holgorsen had WVU at #33 Rivals which was an improvement not a decline. 2017 was at 51--but that was because the administration wouldn't extend his contract leading into that years recruiting so several players that were expected to sign did not.

 

[WV Bruno]

The plan for WVU should be improving the talent.
If those players leave it still helps WVU.

Just have to learn how to turn things into positives.

That means WVU is developing talent. Use that to get more. Not everyone is going to leave.
What if those players fail?
WVU then has proof why players should stay

I did not see much out there last year that impressed me. The most impressive player left.