Do you honestly believe Lyons would fire Brown?

[VaultHunter]

He's 100% committed to Brown. Lyons has full support from Gee.

This is it. Until the contract is up Neal Brown has Absolute Power.

I know some people are hitching their wagons to this QB recruit but he changes nothing in this scheme of slow developing routes, bad blocking and terrible play calling.

Truthfully I'm not convinced Doege is the problem. It's the entire offensive scheme and staff other than maybe Parker because our WRs are catching balls. I guess. It couldn't have gotten much worse so who knows.

This thing has two possible outcomes;

A) Brown is a good CEO and he blows up the staff finding some combination of guys who fix this mess.

B) Brown is a egotistical control freak and continues to drive 27 nails into 1 wall stud. He doesn't fire his coaching buddies, blames the kids, we continue to lose.

If B is true, Lyons will be hitched to Brown until 2026. Then another Coach will need 2-3 years to rebuild. That's 2029 at the earliest before WVU is competing for a Conference Championship when just 3 seasons ago WVU already was almost every year.

I think it's pretty obvious by now why Zero SEC programs plucked up Brown and why no other programs beat WVU to obtain his services. Obviously some of them must have reached out at some point but didn't like what they heard so backed away.

The jump from G5 competition week in week out to P5 is Massive and that's why a staff better know what it's doing when you hire it. You don't base that hire on 1 upset, 1 decent win over a bottom feeding P5 and 1 almost won against a great P5.

That's what Lyons did and most of the fan base swallowed that hook line and sinker. My doubts came from his losses on his resume he almost always had a let down game after a big win, a game they should never have lost and games where mistakes cost them.

Sounds familiar doesn't it?

 

[VaultHunter]

Go look at the Troy message board when Brown was leaving. Almost every single fan wanted Koenning to stay and get the HC job because the watched Brown and Co and knew he was the main reason for Brown's success. I was actually on board while Vic was here while still having my doubts. Once Vic was thrown in the hole for 3 players this thing was OVER.

 

[deedoubleyou]

Koenning was always the biggest factor in Brown's success. If you go back on here to when we hired Brown, I was more excited about Vic Koenning than anything including Brown, even made a thread about it I think. He coached top 5 defenses everywhere he went including Clemson and North Carolina just to name 2. He really had his system down and knew the players for it. Brown rode his coattails I do believe.

No I dont believe the same man who ushered in the diversity committee and let a high school kid run our best coach (VK) out of town will fire Brown for quite a while, without being badly pressured by donors and media, but the WVU media is just a bunch of good ol boy network hacks mostly. WV doesnt have "ReaI media" lol. I would personally like to see both of them go --Brown and Lyons, and take the distracting racist diversity committee with them. That kind of division and weak minded culture has no place in sports teams who actually want to win, and no place in society for that matter. WVU football hasn't been this bad since before Nehlen. Its terrible. Not even fun to watch anymore,. And I see a lot more transfers leaving after this pathetic disgraceful season. Would not be shocked if Nicco reopens his recruiting with the year he is having as well. Who in their right mind would want to play under Neal Brown at this point?

Lyons might force Brown to fire Matt Moore at best. There has to be one firing, they know that, and Moore looks to be on the chopping block since Brown just signed a new 5 year deal while Lyons was swallowing.

Basically, WVU football sucks. Cant wait for basketball season.

 

[WVUALLEN]

No he will not fire him. But his boss will.

Nothing happening until after 2024. Unless they want to pay about 20 million.

 

[GetYaNumbersUp]

Lyons needs to be on the hot seat himself. I haven't seen anything out of him that shows he knows WTF he is doing. We are looking at a losing season this year and next, as well as being stuck in what's soon to be a G5 conference.

 

[SKYHAWKBALL]

No he will not fire him. But his boss will.

Nothing happening until after 2024. Unless they want to pay about 20 million.

Gee may be gone from this Earth by the time 2024 happens.

 

[SKYHAWKBALL]

Lyons lost my support 100% during the Koening ordeal and how he swept all the findings under the rug and refused to release them and redacted everything in the independent investigation the school did according to the FOIA papers. The diversity committee crap just solidified everything about him and why he is a terrible AD for the program he is at. Instead of taking a swing at a Lane Kiffin hire, he settled for Kneel Brown. Another pathetic move by Lyons was begging season ticket holders last year to not request refunds and to just donate that money.

Like OP said, Lyons and Brown are attached as a pair unfortunately . When one gets fired, the other will follow as well.

 

[jlaudiomaster]

It’s too early to bail on Brown. While the results this year are disappointing, we just extended him (based on what, I’m not sure). He will have at least 2 more years here, as he should at this point since he was extended. I am starting to view this season as a great program reset. We might get one more win. This year will be the baseline for which we shall start seeing year over year improvement. No more excuses about a bare cupboard. Brown and company will have had 3 years to get a head start on next season. Without certain unnamed changes, I don’t see more than 6 wins next year. The following year, we must start competing back in the top 25 again.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

It’s too early to bail on Brown. While the results this year are disappointing, we just extended him (based on what, I’m not sure). He will have at least 2 more years here, as he should at this point since he was extended. I am starting to view this season as a great program reset. We might get one more win. This year will be the baseline for which we shall start seeing year over year improvement. No more excuses about a bare cupboard. Brown and company will have had 3 years to get a head start on next season. Without certain unnamed changes, I don’t see more than 6 wins next year. The following year, we must start competing back in the top 25 again.

You have doormat and sucker written all over you.

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

Lyons lost my support 100% during the Koening ordeal and how he swept all the findings under the rug and refused to release them and redacted everything in the independent investigation the school did according to the FOIA papers. The diversity committee crap just solidified everything about him and why he is a terrible AD for the program he is at. Instead of taking a swing at a Lane Kiffin hire, he settled for Kneel Brown. Another pathetic move by Lyons was begging season ticket holders last year to not request refunds and to just donate that money.

Like OP said, Lyons and Brown are attached as a pair unfortunately . When one gets fired, the other will follow as well.

Would've been great if WVU hired Koening before the 2018 season as the head coach in waiting. Might have actually accomplished something with that amazing 2018 offense if we had a D worth half a damn like the one we have now. Didn't need to be great, just needed to be sturdier than a wet tissue.

 

[Buckaineer]

Koenig was no great loss, the defense was better after he left. You cannot keep a coach that is driving away players, for all we know a large number of players that left, left because of him and his ilk. Just can't happen that a coach is insulting players on a personal level and spewing his right wing radical politics when he is supposed to be coaching. He's not paid to spread radical hate and bigotry and the players aren't going to put up with that b.s. anymore.

Either way, defense better, he was not a significant loss. Is he even coaching anywhere now?

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers]

WVU coaches' ranking, in MY opinion as a 20-year sportswriter (retired LONG ago). Take it or toss it.

1. Clarence "Doc" Spears, coach of 1922 team, ONLY Mountaineer team to ever go without a loss during the regular season and post-season and a legitimate claimant to the 1922 national title (there was no such thing back then).

2. Rich Rodriguez.
3. Don Nehlen.
4. Bobby Bowden.
5. Jim Carlen.

Everyone has their opinion. I'm sure others will rank them differently and I have no problem with that. But I do have payday credibility about my opinion.

 

[WVUALLEN]

WVU coaches' ranking, in MY opinion as a 20-year sportswriter (retired LONG ago). Take it or toss it.

1. Clarence "Doc" Spears, coach of 1922 team, ONLY Mountaineer team to ever go without a loss during the regular season and post-season and a legitimate claimant to the 1922 national title (there was no such thing back then).

2. Rich Rodriguez.
3. Don Nehlen.
4. Bobby Bowden.
5. Jim Carlen.

Everyone has their opinion. I'm sure others will rank them differently and I have no problem with that. But I do have payday credibility about my opinion.

According to the media the champion was......not WVU because of their high school shcedule.

 

[deedoubleyou]

In my days it was Nehlen, Rich Rod, Holgs is worth mentioning although he wasnt the coach that Don or Rich was. Rich won us real BCS bowls so its hard to argue that during his short time, he may have accomplished more than any other coach had in modern times.

And people can bash Rich Rod all they want, I hear it a lot and have done it myself, but he coached hard. It was almost the opposite of Brown's approach, and worked better. I remember when there was so much talk about how Rich Rod cussed and yelled at the players in practice when he first took over, and was basically demanding and hard on them. But I also remember our team playing all out, and even ran down the field together between quarters to switch sides, and it was a cool sight to see. We were a well oiled machine under Rich Rod. Fast and faster. Tons of plays, we would just smack defenses in the mouth most of the time. Under Neal Clown, it looks like our players walk with slumped shoulders during field changes and the like. Just no energy at all, no identity, no discipline, etc. I would rather go out and hire a legit coach, but I do believe right now that Rich Rod is a way better coach than Brown and his coaching style was a better fit here than Michigan or Arizona.

 

[Rootmaster]

In my days it was Nehlen, Rich Rod, Holgs is worth mentioning although he wasnt the coach that Don or Rich was. Rich won us real BCS bowls so its hard to argue that during his short time, he may have accomplished more than any other coach had in modern times.

And people can bash Rich Rod all they want, I hear it a lot and have done it myself, but he coached hard. It was almost the opposite of Brown's approach, and worked better. I remember when there was so much talk about how Rich Rod cussed and yelled at the players in practice when he first took over, and was basically demanding and hard on them. But I also remember our team playing all out, and even ran down the field together between quarters to switch sides, and it was a cool sight to see. We were a well oiled machine under Rich Rod. Fast and faster. Tons of plays, we would just smack defenses in the mouth most of the time. Under Neal Clown, it looks like our players walk with slumped shoulders during field changes and the like. Just no energy at all, no identity, no discipline, etc. I would rather go out and hire a legit coach, but I do believe right now that Rich Rod is a way better coach than Brown and his coaching style was a better fit here than Michigan or Arizona.

Well said.

 

[SKYHAWKBALL]

In my days it was Nehlen, Rich Rod, Holgs is worth mentioning although he wasnt the coach that Don or Rich was. Rich won us real BCS bowls so its hard to argue that during his short time, he may have accomplished more than any other coach had in modern times.

And people can bash Rich Rod all they want, I hear it a lot and have done it myself, but he coached hard. It was almost the opposite of Brown's approach, and worked better. I remember when there was so much talk about how Rich Rod cussed and yelled at the players in practice when he first took over, and was basically demanding and hard on them. But I also remember our team playing all out, and even ran down the field together between quarters to switch sides, and it was a cool sight to see. We were a well oiled machine under Rich Rod. Fast and faster. Tons of plays, we would just smack defenses in the mouth most of the time. Under Neal Clown, it looks like our players walk with slumped shoulders during field changes and the like. Just no energy at all, no identity, no discipline, etc. I would rather go out and hire a legit coach, but I do believe right now that Rich Rod is a way better coach than Brown and his coaching style was a better fit here than Michigan or Arizona.

Truth. And he did say better at Arizona than any other recent coach has done including Kevin Sumlin, Stoops, etc. Actually took them to a BCS bowl..

 

[deedoubleyou]

Truth. And he did say better at Arizona than any other recent coach has done including Kevin Sumlin, Stoops, etc. Actually took them to a BCS bowl..

I would take him right now over Brown and wouldn't look back. I have a feeling Brown is just further setting the program back. We've done nothing but get worse under him so far. No improvement. Just more suck.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Truth. And he did say better at Arizona than any other recent coach has done including Kevin Sumlin, Stoops, etc. Actually took them to a BCS bowl..

Rod lost to a G5 school in Fiesta Bowl. He sucked even more after that. Finished with losing record in PAC 12 conference.

First 3 years at Arizona 26-14 (15-12) Final 3 years 17-21 (9-18) 43-35 (24-30) Horrible. Destroyed an Arizona team that had turned the corner. Good job Rod Fraud.

Dug a huge hole for Michigan 15-22 (6-18)

WVU without Pat White as starter 33-22 (17-10) With Pat White as starter 27-4 (15-4)
Pat White didn't start until after 6th game of season. I give him credit for UL win.

Without Pat White in P5
91-79

Average coach without Pat White.

Basically if you can't run you can't win.

 

[Rootmaster]

Rod lost to a G5 school in Fiesta Bowl. He sucked even more after that. Finished with losing record in PAC 12 conference.

First 3 years at Arizona 26-14 (15-12) Final 3 years 17-21 (9-18) 43-35 (24-30) Horrible. Destroyed an Arizona team that had turned the corner. Good job Rod Fraud.

Dug a huge hole for Michigan 15-22 (6-18)

WVU without Pat White as starter 33-22 (17-10) With Pat White as starter 27-4 (15-4)
Pat White didn't start until after 6th game of season. I give him credit for UL win.

Without Pat White in P5
91-79

Average coach without Pat White.

Basically if you can't run you can't win.

Wtf are you talking about? Wvu with pat white was all about the run.

 

[deedoubleyou]

Rod lost to a G5 school in Fiesta Bowl. He sucked even more after that. Finished with losing record in PAC 12 conference.

First 3 years at Arizona 26-14 (15-12) Final 3 years 17-21 (9-18) 43-35 (24-30) Horrible. Destroyed an Arizona team that had turned the corner. Good job Rod Fraud.

Dug a huge hole for Michigan 15-22 (6-18)

WVU without Pat White as starter 33-22 (17-10) With Pat White as starter 27-4 (15-4)
Pat White didn't start until after 6th game of season. I give him credit for UL win.

Without Pat White in P5
91-79

Average coach without Pat White.

Basically if you can't run you can't win.

Rich Rod was a better fit here. He came in to change everything because that is what he knows. It went over well here because it was needed and he fits the blue collar WV persona. Michigan didn't react well to what he wanted to do there. It was a bad mix from the start, and to be honest, nobody has done much there since him anyway.

Arizona? Pffff, thats no-mans land for football. If you think its hard to recruit to WVU go to Arizona. He had some success there, but not enough and it didnt surprise me in the least. They will never be on top the Pac.

Rich Rod did well here, and did things how he wanted and it worked great at WVU. The only issue was the "good ol boy" network, and Manchin meddling in the WVU sports. Pastilong told me himself, face to face that Rich didnt like that and wasnt happy about it and it was a big factor (I got to know Ed pretty well in person after he retired). Not too mention, Pastilong himself was too cheap to invest in all the upgrades that Rich knew would bring better recruits. Its not just Neal Brown who has next years recruiting class looking better. Its the new facilities more than Brown. Not a coincidence that we put together our best class maybe ever after we mega-upgraded the football facilities. I'm not giving Brown credit for it at this point. Rich Rod new what he was talking about when it came to that stuff. He knew to be a top notch program and reload good players every year, you had to have those things. You have to wow these kids when they come visit. Shayne Lyons may be a social justice weenie, but he did the right thing in upgrading everything. Its so true, you will get better recruits that way. Brown is taking credit for it, but in my eyes its not him as much as it is that we are now on par with most big schools in that department. Neal Brown is a clown.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers]

In 42 years WVU has won 9, 10 or 11 games in 14 seasons. That’s once every 3 seasons under 5 different coaches. Neal Brown is in his 3rd season. See 9, 10 or 11 wins in the future with Neal Brown?

WVU 11-win seasons
11-2 in 2007 with Bill Stewart
11-2 in 2006 with Rich Rodriguez
11-1 in 2005 with Rich Rodriguez
11-1 in 1993 with Don Nehlen
11-1 in 1998 with Don Nehlen



WVU 10-win seasons
10-3 in 2016 with Dana Holgerson
10-3 in 2011 with Danna Holgerson

WVU 9-win seasons
9-4 in 2010 with Bill Stewart
9-4 in 2009 with Bill Stewart
9-4 in 2008 with Bill Stewart
9-4 in 2002 with Rich Rodriguez
9-3 in 1983 with Don Nehlen
9-3 in 1982 with Don Nehlen
9-3 in 1981 with Don Nehlen

 

[Charleston Mountie]

Rich Rod was a better fit here. He came in to change everything because that is what he knows. It went over well here because it was needed and he fits the blue collar WV persona. Michigan didn't react well to what he wanted to do there. It was a bad mix from the start, and to be honest, nobody has done much there since him anyway.

Arizona? Pffff, thats no-mans land for football. If you think its hard to recruit to WVU go to Arizona. He had some success there, but not enough and it didnt surprise me in the least. They will never be on top the Pac.

Rich Rod did well here, and did things how he wanted and it worked great at WVU. The only issue was the "good ol boy" network, and Manchin meddling in the WVU sports. Pastilong told me himself, face to face that Rich didnt like that and wasnt happy about it and it was a big factor (I got to know Ed pretty well in person after he retired). Not too mention, Pastilong himself was too cheap to invest in all the upgrades that Rich knew would bring better recruits. Its not just Neal Brown who has next years recruiting class looking better. Its the new facilities more than Brown. Not a coincidence that we put together our best class maybe ever after we mega-upgraded the football facilities. I'm not giving Brown credit for it at this point. Rich Rod new what he was talking about when it came to that stuff. He knew to be a top notch program and reload good players every year, you had to have those things. You have to wow these kids when they come visit. Shayne Lyons may be a social justice weenie, but he did the right thing in upgrading everything. Its so true, you will get better recruits that way. Brown is taking credit for it, but in my eyes its not him as much as it is that we are now on par with most big schools in that department. Neal Brown is a clown.

I am not sure how much of the upgrading process should be a merit to WVU. The BIg-12 mandated selected upgrades to be in the conference. It has taken several years to bring those improvements forward. I am not aware of any facility upgrade that was the result of anything Brown has done. As for still needed improvements, the stadium has been dressed up as much as is possible but it needs to be replaced. It takes ten years of design and pre-planning to do that and we need to be doing that right now. Ruby wants that land any way.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Rich Rod was a better fit here. He came in to change everything because that is what he knows. It went over well here because it was needed and he fits the blue collar WV persona. Michigan didn't react well to what he wanted to do there. It was a bad mix from the start, and to be honest, nobody has done much there since him anyway.

Arizona? Pffff, thats no-mans land for football. If you think its hard to recruit to WVU go to Arizona. He had some success there, but not enough and it didnt surprise me in the least. They will never be on top the Pac.

Rich Rod did well here, and did things how he wanted and it worked great at WVU. The only issue was the "good ol boy" network, and Manchin meddling in the WVU sports. Pastilong told me himself, face to face that Rich didnt like that and wasnt happy about it and it was a big factor (I got to know Ed pretty well in person after he retired). Not too mention, Pastilong himself was too cheap to invest in all the upgrades that Rich knew would bring better recruits. Its not just Neal Brown who has next years recruiting class looking better. Its the new facilities more than Brown. Not a coincidence that we put together our best class maybe ever after we mega-upgraded the football facilities. I'm not giving Brown credit for it at this point. Rich Rod new what he was talking about when it came to that stuff. He knew to be a top notch program and reload good players every year, you had to have those things. You have to wow these kids when they come visit. Shayne Lyons may be a social justice weenie, but he did the right thing in upgrading everything. Its so true, you will get better recruits that way. Brown is taking credit for it, but in my eyes its not him as much as it is that we are now on par with most big schools in that department. Neal Brown is a clown.

Rod is a dick. Didn't give a shit about WVU only himself. I guess you don't recall fans wanting Rod gone early on. His record 13-16 at one point at WVU.

 

[WVUALLEN]

I am not sure how much of the upgrading process should be a merit to WVU. The BIg-12 mandated selected upgrades to be in the conference. It has taken several years to bring those improvements forward. I am not aware of any facility upgrade that was the result of anything Brown has done. As for still needed improvements, the stadium has been dressed up as much as is possible but it needs to be replaced. It takes ten years of design and pre-planning to do that and we need to be doing that right now. Ruby wants that land any way.

This

 

[WVUALLEN]

In 42 years WVU has won 9, 10 or 11 games in 14 seasons. That’s once every 3 seasons under 5 different coaches. Neal Brown is in his 3rd season. See 9, 10 or 11 wins in the future with Neal Brown?

WVU 11-win seasons
11-2 in 2007 with Bill Stewart
11-2 in 2006 with Rich Rodriguez
11-1 in 2005 with Rich Rodriguez
11-1 in 1993 with Don Nehlen
11-1 in 1998 with Don Nehlen



WVU 10-win seasons
10-3 in 2016 with Dana Holgerson
10-3 in 2011 with Danna Holgerson

WVU 9-win seasons
9-4 in 2010 with Bill Stewart
9-4 in 2009 with Bill Stewart
9-4 in 2008 with Bill Stewart
9-4 in 2002 with Rich Rodriguez
9-3 in 1983 with Don Nehlen
9-3 in 1982 with Don Nehlen
9-3 in 1981 with Don Nehlen

When the competition is weaker the record is usually better. Does this now mak you a pretend fan? You hating on a coach, players and team. Your alumni. Disgraceful.

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

In 42 years WVU has won 9, 10 or 11 games in 14 seasons. That’s once every 3 seasons under 5 different coaches. Neal Brown is in his 3rd season. See 9, 10 or 11 wins in the future with Neal Brown?

WVU 11-win seasons
11-2 in 2007 with Bill Stewart
11-2 in 2006 with Rich Rodriguez
11-1 in 2005 with Rich Rodriguez
11-1 in 1993 with Don Nehlen
11-1 in 1998 with Don Nehlen



WVU 10-win seasons
10-3 in 2016 with Dana Holgerson
10-3 in 2011 with Danna Holgerson

WVU 9-win seasons
9-4 in 2010 with Bill Stewart
9-4 in 2009 with Bill Stewart
9-4 in 2008 with Bill Stewart
9-4 in 2002 with Rich Rodriguez
9-3 in 1983 with Don Nehlen
9-3 in 1982 with Don Nehlen
9-3 in 1981 with Don Nehlen

2007 was RR's team. Just because Bill Stewart played the interim role for the bowl game doesn't mean he did the heavy lifting as head coach in sculpting that season.

 

[WVUALLEN]

2007 was RR's team. Just because Bill Stewart played the interim role for the bowl game doesn't mean he did the heavy lifting as head coach in sculpting that season.

His numbers never lie. He lives by the them.

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

His numbers never lie. He lives by the them.

Well I'm waiting for that sniveling coward mofo to claim I'm wrong and refuse to acknowledge any facts or numbers because the source of those facts and numbers is a "hater"

 

[deedoubleyou]

I am not sure how much of the upgrading process should be a merit to WVU. The BIg-12 mandated selected upgrades to be in the conference. It has taken several years to bring those improvements forward. I am not aware of any facility upgrade that was the result of anything Brown has done. As for still needed improvements, the stadium has been dressed up as much as is possible but it needs to be replaced. It takes ten years of design and pre-planning to do that and we need to be doing that right now. Ruby wants that land any way.

I didnt realize the B12 had requirements, and I definitely would not give Brown credit for anything involved in it. I just remember Lyons releasing the plans of the remodel and it looks really amazing now. We've never had a locker room or anything like we have now. It does help with recruiting, I mean how wouldnt it? The pictures of the new stuff is amazing. All Im saying is that Rich Rod wanted that stuff a long time ago. Perhaps Lyons didnt have much choice per B12, but either way it can only help.

 

[deedoubleyou]

Rod is a dick. Didn't give a shit about WVU only himself. I guess you don't recall fans wanting Rod gone early on. His record 13-16 at one point at WVU.

Rich Rod actually had to rebuild the entire roster and completely change even the type of player he wanted going from Nehlen's system to his spread option system. Everyone knew it would take a while back then, except people who dont know football very well. He brought us into the modern era of football honestly. The changes needed weren't nearly as extreme with Holgs or Brown.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Rich Rod actually had to rebuild the entire roster and completely change even the type of player he wanted going from Nehlen's system to his spread option system. Everyone knew it would take a while back then, except people who dont know football very well. He brought us into the modern era of football honestly. The changes needed weren't nearly as extreme with Holgs or Brown.

Rod had a returning QB multiple running backs and offensive linemen. If you're sucking on Rod then you need to kneel for Brown. Until season 4 .

Rods candy offense would fail in the Big 12. Just as it did in PAC and Big 10. Horny Rod didn't even start Pat White. Once he he was forced to do so he began winning and road those coattails to failure at other places.

You are truly cluess if you think Brown didn't have to change everything. True he should me winning by now but he did have to find players.

 

[Butler-eer]

No he will not fire him. But his boss will.

Nothing happening until after 2024. Unless they want to pay about 20 million.

I don't see that as a hindrance. If coaching changes aren't made at the end of this year and next year is also a looser. Brown may not be here for a 5th. $20M is always a negotiable number.

 

[Rootmaster]

Rod had a returning QB multiple running backs and offensive linemen. If you're sucking on Rod then you need to kneel for Brown. Until season 4 .

Rods candy offense would fail in the Big 12. Just as it did in PAC and Big 10. Horny Rod didn't even start Pat White. Once he he was forced to do so he began winning and road those coattails to failure at other places.

You are truly cluess if you think Brown didn't have to change everything. True he should me winning by now but he did have to find players.

Here you go again. What does cluess mean? Or, did you mean clueless? Glad to help you clean up another garbled post son.

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

Rich Rod actually had to rebuild the entire roster and completely change even the type of player he wanted going from Nehlen's system to his spread option system. Everyone knew it would take a while back then, except people who dont know football very well. He brought us into the modern era of football honestly. The changes needed weren't nearly as extreme with Holgs or Brown.

RR had to install a new system on both offense and defense, but he didn't have to rebuild from the ground up. He did start off with guys not exactly suited to run any form of his offense. Brad Lewis was immobile. Sure compared to Doege he was a regular Josh Allen, but compared to any normal player he was not a good fit for RR's system. That being said, he still had talented players such as Coburn and some linemen that once they had a year in his system and strength and conditioning program became solid players. Its why WVU had a pretty good 2nd year after a really rough first year as the talent and football fundamentals were on the roster and the scheme was the only new thing.

RR did not have to re-install a recruiting base at WVU. He did not need to rebuild relationships with high school coaches and get recruiters back into areas previously abandoned. He did not have to teach fundamental football to anyone other than the youth on the roster. He didn't have to reinstall a working tier of Freshman through Senior players ready to advance to the next year to be a starter or be a competent back-up in the event of injury.

Ultimately I say your assessment is right with Holgorsen. Brown had it much tougher coming into WVU than RR had coming in. Doesn't excuse the results on the field where this year the team is worse than last year and not steadily improving at it should no matter where it started from.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers]

RR had to install a new system on both offense and defense, but he didn't have to rebuild from the ground up. He did start off with guys not exactly suited to run any form of his offense. Brad Lewis was immobile. Sure compared to Doege he was a regular Josh Allen, but compared to any normal player he was not a good fit for RR's system. That being said, he still had talented players such as Coburn and some linemen that once they had a year in his system and strength and conditioning program became solid players. Its why WVU had a pretty good 2nd year after a really rough first year as the talent and football fundamentals were on the roster and the scheme was the only new thing.

RR did not have to re-install a recruiting base at WVU. He did not need to rebuild relationships with high school coaches and get recruiters back into areas previously abandoned. He did not have to teach fundamental football to anyone other than the youth on the roster. He didn't have to reinstall a working tier of Freshman through Senior players ready to advance to the next year to be a starter or be a competent back-up in the event of injury.

Ultimately I say your assessment is right with Holgorsen. Brown had it much tougher coming into WVU than RR had coming in. Doesn't excuse the results on the field where this year the team is worse than last year and not steadily improving at it should no matter where it started from.

NOTHING can excuse the debacle in Waco!

 

[Butler-eer]

RR took over some pretty good players. Quincy Wilson, Antonio Brown, Grant Wiley, Rasheed Marshall, Lance Frazier, Phil Braxton, Avon Cobourne, Kyle Kaden, Rick Sherrod, Shawn Hacket, Angel Estrada, Jahmil Addae, Adam Lehnortt, David Upchurch.
Dandy Don left with the cupboard pretty full.

 

[deedoubleyou]

Rod had a returning QB multiple running backs and offensive linemen. If you're sucking on Rod then you need to kneel for Brown. Until season 4 .

Rods candy offense would fail in the Big 12. Just as it did in PAC and Big 10. Horny Rod didn't even start Pat White. Once he he was forced to do so he began winning and road those coattails to failure at other places.

You are truly cluess if you think Brown didn't have to change everything. True he should me winning by now but he did have to find players.

Almost none of the players he inherited fit his scheme especially the OL. Your memory doesnt serve you well. Rich Rod and the media both talked a lot about how he likes smaller OLmen who can move more than the big hogs Nehlen liked. It was a total rebuild to a totally different way of playing offense. A regular pocket passer NFL style QB wasnt going to fit his system as well as Pat White, which is why Rich was the only coach offering him a QB spot.

 

[Rootmaster]

Almost none of the players he inherited fit his scheme especially the OL. Your memory doesnt serve you well. Rich Rod and the media both talked a lot about how he likes smaller OLmen who can move more than the big hogs Nehlen liked. It was a total rebuild to a totally different way of playing offense. A regular pocket passer NFL style QB wasnt going to fit his system as well as Pat White, which is why Rich was the only coach offering him a QB spot.

You are spot on. Players left because they didn't want to condition up and play at Rich's pace.

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

Almost none of the players he inherited fit his scheme especially the OL. Your memory doesnt serve you well. Rich Rod and the media both talked a lot about how he likes smaller OLmen who can move more than the big hogs Nehlen liked. It was a total rebuild to a totally different way of playing offense. A regular pocket passer NFL style QB wasnt going to fit his system as well as Pat White, which is why Rich was the only coach offering him a QB spot.

Those linemen still played in 2002. The 2002 team wasn't completely new O linemen that RR got himself. They were mostly players already on the roster from Nehlen's time that leaned out and learned the system. They were already there and already football knowledgeable. Completely different than hardly any linemen at all on the roster and no in roads to good recruiting grounds for linemen or other positions. Like I always say, 2 things can be true at once. Neal Brown can be a worse coach than RR while also taking far longer than a decent coach should to show some progress. Neal Brown also inherited a deeper mess that involved the very foundation of the program rather than just implementing a new scheme.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers]

Rich made the most of what he had, and recruited what he didn't have, and installed an offense that took advantage of both. Best WVU coach in modern history, with Nehlen, Bowden and Carlen close behind. Doc Spears, coach of the ONLY WVU team to go undefeated in both regular season and post-season in 1922, is #1 in my book. After all, a century later, NO WVU coach has equalled Spears unbeaten season plus post-season!