If WV needs to spend the next few years improving in every aspect..........I wonder what the other schools need to be doing during this time? Hail, all schools (teams) have the same goals. At least it appears that way to ole Warez.
ACC a better fit than Big 12?
- Thread starter OldGoldandBlue1
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If WV needs to spend the next few years improving in every aspect..........I wonder what the other schools need to be doing during this time? Hail, all schools (teams) have the same goals. At least it appears that way to ole Warez.
There are some out there, that can't understand that having a guaranteed rematch in CCG is not Armageddon. You seem to be one of those that think it matters.
As far as me burying my head in the sand, neither you or I can’t predict what is going to happen in the future.
However, the leaders of the conference and the company that did the research know a hell of a lot more than you do. Even without expansion, the researched showed that the 13th data point is going to help with the CPG, even if it is a guaranteed rematch. So, why are you totally ignoring the research? If the leaders of the conference thought a guaranteed rematch was going to cause the problems you believe, they would not have voted unanimously for the game.
I believe there will be 4 power conferences.
We know the BI1G and the SEC will always be a power
Although the PAC is in the worst financial shape of the 5, they are safe for the same reason TexA$$ and OU won’t join that conference, (most are too far west to).
That leaves the ACC and the BIG12. I do not agree it is a forgone conclusion TexA$$ and OU are gone. Personally I think the ACC programs such as UNC, Duke, UVA, and GT are more likely B1G targets than TexA$$ and OU. If that happens, there will be an opportunity for the BIG12 to pick up valuable pieces.
I can’t say the same for the SEC. They might go after, OU, which would be an excellent fit and a program to be named later.
Hell for that matter both the ACC and BIG12 could get raided leaving the left overs to form the forth power conference. .
Agree with your assessment Steve, but an addendum.
The Big12 has already been raided and I do not see it happening again. The CW also supports no further attempts. Raids in general are over in my opinion. It is now down to individual schools moving to better themselves or leaving behind a situation that they found untenable.
Texas is too much love in with itself to be in a conference where it does not dictate. The perks of being independent for them seem to be a draw but they can still get most of those perks from inside the Big12 and get conference perks as well. Oklahoma cannot leave without Oklahoma State - period. Kansas and Kansas State are joined by another indivisible State House bond. After that short list, no one left is a desirable candidate for either the SEC or the Big Ten.
Buck can cry all he wants about it but that is bare setup. He reminds me of my grandmother - God rest her soul - she was not happy unless she was crying. Buck has never been happy about any of this stuff.
The ACC on the other hand has valuable programs that neither the Big Ten or the SEC will take - namely FSU and Clemson. Rumors have surfaced from time-to-time that GT was on the Big Ten radar (I do not believe that to be true) but GT has never been on the SEC radar. A few of the ACC members are valued for their AAU rating and/or their status as a flagship university with a substantial media footprint in their state. Read that as DUKE, UNC and UVA.
Once you look at the landscape, the ACC is far more ripe for a plucking then an already plucked Big12 with no low hanging fruit.
Mountie and Steve remind me of the guy trapped on a house with rising waters that keeps passing up help waiting on help- then when drowned say to God- I Thought you were going to send help and the Lord says- I did and you passed it up every time until you died.
That is what the BIg 12 has been doing for years now.
These people stuck on the ACC are so immersed in delusion they cant see straight. What part of the ACC had a grant of rights through 2027 do you not get? It isnt going away, and no one is going to challenge it in 2023 when it would end up in court for the next half decade beyond their deal anyway.
The Big Ten and Pac 12 come due right when the BIG 12 must negotiate. Its not a coincidence.
WVU has to ensure it remains P5 and if the BIg 12 is broken up that will become very difficult. Waiting in a fantasy og the ACC is not rational or responsible.
That is what the BIg 12 has been doing for years now.
These people stuck on the ACC are so immersed in delusion they cant see straight. What part of the ACC had a grant of rights through 2027 do you not get? It isnt going away, and no one is going to challenge it in 2023 when it would end up in court for the next half decade beyond their deal anyway.
The Big Ten and Pac 12 come due right when the BIG 12 must negotiate. Its not a coincidence.
WVU has to ensure it remains P5 and if the BIg 12 is broken up that will become very difficult. Waiting in a fantasy og the ACC is not rational or responsible.
Great analogy dipshit, don’t you know WV lost 24 people to flooding this week.
BTW it isn't freaking relevant when contracts come due. The B1G can make an offer to any GD team they want, and pick a date that will coninside with the GOR and have the TV contracts factor that in when the teamms join the league.
BTW it isn't freaking relevant when contracts come due. The B1G can make an offer to any GD team they want, and pick a date that will coninside with the GOR and have the TV contracts factor that in when the teamms join the league.
That was totally F ing stupid. You may be an ACC fan, but you owe the people of West Virginia an apology. Horrible timing on an analogy. People are dead from flooding.
While Buck's analogy kind of sucked (even if you disregard the timing).... ...you guys are being way too sensitive.
....which by the way, is a very WVian trait.
I'm of the opinion that you're actually using the terrible tragedy more of a debate weapon than he ever intended to do himself.
....which by the way, is a very WVian trait.
I'm of the opinion that you're actually using the terrible tragedy more of a debate weapon than he ever intended to do himself.
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Has nothing to do whether the analogy works or not, timing is everything. After what I have seen for the last week, that one does hit harder than it should.
Hope to think Buck wasn't trying to be funny with that one.
Hope to think Buck wasn't trying to be funny with that one.
You are really stuck on a contract that you have not read. No one has read it. Many of us have tried through several means to obtain one from either the Big12 or the ACC and they are not to be had. Therefore you cannot say what it can and cannot limit or the attest to the ironclad nature it is rumored to possess. I can assert just as fairly that the GoR is band aid and nothing more. I cannot prove anything about it and neither can you. All I can prove is who signed on such and such date.
If you have ever been involved in contracts you will know that all of them can be broken. Nothing is ironclad. All the GoR does is create some level of messiness and cost to an already uncertain transaction. Some schools find that too much and others could not care less. If the Big Ten or the SEC came calling to Morgantown tomorrow, we would not let the GoR stop us one bit and no school in the ACC is going to let it stop them either.
Maryland proved that. While they did not have a GoR to deal with, the ACC played the shrieking bitch wife demanding anything and everything from the Turtles as they left. Maryland was happy to pay it and Maryland now takes in more money that any program in the ACC and they are just getting started!
The GoR is nothing like you want it to be.
Not really true. There is no such thing as an absolute. However, there is such a thing as a probability. The thing you have to realize is that "Grant of Rights" is simply a generic term. It's a type of contract that is used over a wide variety of industries (publishing, music, motion picture, etc.). Any legal case that's involved a Grant of Rights would have relevance to a school withdrawing. It doesn't have to be limited to sports. Grants of Rights have been used decades, have established legal precedent, and are not going to be easily broken, by any means.
How did you become his apologist? That was a very crass, classless, unfeeling statement. Tell the families of the dead people how it just 'kind of sucked'. I guess you're not from WV, are you?
Just so I understand. The Big 12 has lost 4 programs relatively recently to 3 different conferences and the ACC has lost 1. However, some on here find it imposible not to believe that the Big 12 is positioned better than the ACC in maintaining status quo. It seems like when a conference needs to expand the Big12 is where they turn. Why would the next round of expansion be any different? Thoughs?
You can only pig the pot so many times. Where are the teams that you really want? The ACC robbed the Big East until they destroyed it. Again, where are the teams the expanding conferences really want? I say the ACC.
After you have dated all the single pretty girls in the family, why bother with the wives or the ugly ones? Texas and Oklahoma are certainly pretty but they are also unattainable. Texas loves no one more than Texas and thus no matchup is going to be their idea of perfection. They accept the consolation of being queen in their own castle. Oklahoma can only go on a date if you take her ugly conjoined twin along for the romp in the hay.
No one has read the contracts? Yes dip$h!t someone has read the contracts- the people that wrote them, signed them with banks of lawyers and the conferences that now protect the value of their media rights with them, plus the networks that protect their inventory with them.
That is the point- you for some reason continue to spout off about your ignorant imaginings of grants of rights- duping people into believing you have a f'ing clue. In reality you have NONE. Grants of rights were enacted by four major conferences at least- they didn't do it as some pretend game- the contracts are binding and enforceable and more importantly NO ONE is seeking to break one and no conference is seeking to destroy their own.
When you spout off about " contracts being broken" what you really mean is that if someone feels they want to get out of one they can try to take it to court. That doesn't mean it can "be broken" fool, it means they might be able to get a court to release them from a contract. But in the case of grants of rights the rights have been transferred to another party legally-- you seem to think its the same as a buyout fee but it is NOT. That you take something to court doesn't mean you are going to win and a GOR is. More enforceable than a buyout because it isn't a punitive fine. It's a transfer of rights ownership.
If you sell your house you aren't likely going go to court and say you changed your mind and want it back because someone came to you after the sale and told you they'd pay more for it So you want the house back to sell it to them. You may have noticed when stepping outside of your fantasy world that no one, not one school anywhere is trying to take a grant of rights into a courtroom.
You bring up a completely unrelated case in Maryland and pretend they actually won even that buyout case. They still paid at 60% of that buyout fee that came to over $30 million .
You say the ACC- while you ignore that the ACC has media rights tied up through 2027. Why can't some of you comprehend this?
What this means is- even if someone does covet the ACC schools, and even if the ACC schools actually wanted to join them- it isn't realistically possible until 2027.
The BIG 12s tv contracts expire prior to that and they have nothing in place to get a next contract that will get them in the ballpark of where some of their peers are going financially. If they don't have that then how are they going to get another contra
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Born and raised in the great state of WV and bombarded with stereotypes our entire life has a tendency of making people sensitive. Being sensitive is part of what makes us West Virginians.
Again you keep pointing to the timing of when contracts are up, and frankly it isn't relevant or hold water.
The B1G can make an offer to any BIG12 or ACC program anytime they want. The key is to time the entry into the conference and the TV contracts escalation at the time the GOR expires.
If not mistaken this is the order in which TV contracts expire
BIG 10 expire in 2022
Pac-12 deal expires in 2023-24
BIG 12 2024-25
ACC 2026-27
There is NOTHING, ZIP, NADA, to prevent the BIG from inviting any programs, and programs accept offer in 2022 as long as the actual entrance into the conference occurs when the GOR expires. TV contracts would be structured for an increase when programs entered the conference. This means the B1G can invite 4 ACC programs in 2022 (or for that mater BIG12 and even PAC schools) and programs not officially join until the expiration of the GOR.
Buck, you really should seek help or at the very least lets the adults chat and you merely watch and perhaps learn something. I have tried to offer you some leeway in the hopes you would learn something but you exhibit all of the signs of someone that needs extensive counseling and a healthy dose of medication. I am sure you will take my comments as hyperbole but I am actually being deadly serious. You are a troubled individual.
I advise everyone on this board to just avoid you and to only chat with you about mundane subjects.
It was grossly inappropriate no matter how you view his comments and for anyone to defend him is no less. This is what you get out of a Penn State fans when they try to spin the crap that went on up there for decades.
Oh the irony. You are the one that fails to comprehend anything the rest of us all discussing. Either we are all wrong and your right or it is the other way around. Tell me Buck are you the only one right? You really do need professional help.
An easy way to spot someone that is troubled and lies a lot is that they can't have a reasonable discussion. As long as they are tossing out their b.s. And everyone's eating it up things are great- but as soon as someone brings rationality into the discussion? All manner of insults and personal attacks fly, an attempt to discredit the person blowing up the lies and misinformation so no one else will pay attention to that person and so on.
This is Mounties modus operandi and M Steve isn't far behind.
They can't discuss anything because their entire premise is based on fantasies. They become immediately bitter and angry when information is presented that shows what they are claiming to be-- to be kind "made up".
In their world if it doesn't fit their agenda - you are a !"%_#_<I got @$$_€_£\¥hole who needs professional help.
But they never address what you've stated because after all they have no counter argument except the childish type such as "contracts can be broken because we say it can". Or some such bunk.
Unfortunately it appears there are some Steves and Mounties running the BIG 12- right into the ground- and that will be their downfall. Other conferences aren't playing make believe they are making well reasoned choices with the intent of a high level of success while UT tries to bide its time and convinces the sheep to follow off the cliff..
This is Mounties modus operandi and M Steve isn't far behind.
They can't discuss anything because their entire premise is based on fantasies. They become immediately bitter and angry when information is presented that shows what they are claiming to be-- to be kind "made up".
In their world if it doesn't fit their agenda - you are a !"%_#_<I got @$$_€_£\¥hole who needs professional help.
But they never address what you've stated because after all they have no counter argument except the childish type such as "contracts can be broken because we say it can". Or some such bunk.
Unfortunately it appears there are some Steves and Mounties running the BIG 12- right into the ground- and that will be their downfall. Other conferences aren't playing make believe they are making well reasoned choices with the intent of a high level of success while UT tries to bide its time and convinces the sheep to follow off the cliff..
Yes you are wrong. Everyone isn't wrong but then, you aren't everyone. Everyone doesn't agree with you and everyone isn't on your side. Everyone doesn't disagree with me because you want them to. They don't have a problem if they agree with me either , and they don't need you to tell them what to think.
You talk a lot of trash so be a man and stand on your own. If you can't defend your ignorant positions then guess what-- it's because they are wrong and so are you. Don't try to lump everyone else in with you and pretend you are leading some group- you aren't.
Here's the problem with the argument you guys are having. You're arguing over hypotheticals. It's a given that none of these things are absolutes. It's not impossible to get out of a contract. It's not impossible to invite a team before a GOR expires. The thing is, just because something is possible doesn't mean it's likely, and doesn't support an argument. It's possible that Western Kentucky could beat Alabama this year. But let's be realistic. You know good and well when that game is actually played, Alabama will beat WKU, probably very badly. By the same token, all these crazy scenarios about teams breaking GORs and conferences making raids 5-6 years out isn't realistically going to happen. We have seen how the expansion process has played out it the past, and there is no indication that the process in the future will/would be any different.
It's one thing to be within a season or so of another conferences tv deals and quite another to be nearly a half decade out.
In 2024 the BIG 12 must be getting close to their new tv deal signing.
In 2024 the PAC will START a new tv deal. They will negotiate and sign in 2023.
IN 2023 the BIg Ten will START a new tv deal. They will negotiate and sign in 2022.
The ACCs deal isn't up up until 2027. There's little to no chance that in 2022 the Big Ten will have negotiated with ACC schools that a half decade from then they'll let their tv deal run out and sign with the Big Ten. There's little chance the Big Ten would be able to successfully go without contracts for five years running all in the hopes that the people who gave them verbal assurances a half decade before would be interested or even at the schools--or that circumstances would be so that the tv networks would open deals up again.
The Big Ten has established an advantage in negotiating position -- for a reason. The BIG 12 schools must be cognizant of that because doing nothing but playing a guaranteed rematch isn't going to keep the wolves at bay-- especially when they know BIg 12 members are not content. The time for solutions is quickly vanishing.
When the Big Ten starts getting paid many millions more than OU up in 2017 the noise will increase.
ACC schools aren't going anywhere lol. If, and when, the Big 12-2=10 adds schools it will be from a narrow list of non P5 schools that are improving athletics, academics and perception. That landscape, I contend, will look different a few years from now compared to today.
Buck, to say there is little or no chance just isn't true, even if that is what your ACC heart desire. The B1G and the SEC are in the driver seat. Outside of ND If they want a program all they have to do is make an offer. If the B1G has no desire for an ACC team then nothing will happen. However if the BIG wants an ACC team they will make the offer the ACC team will accept and it will be accounted for in TV contracts. The same holds true for most if not all B1G12 program
'
He's actually correct. Your scenario simply isn't realistic. It's not realistic to believe that ESPN and Fox would factor in an increase to the Big Ten's contract for schools that haven't even joined the conference, and won't do so for ~5 years. That hasn't happened previously. If you look at the past expansions, the conferences didn't get to rework their TV deals until the new schools actually joined. To say that ESPN and Fox would do an about-face and sign a new contract for teams that won't join for 4-5 years simply strains credulity, especially when you consider this. The Big Ten has just signed its contracts for only 6 years. If the Big Ten signed similar deals in 22-23, then the new schools would only be under contract for 2-3 years. ESPN/Fox would only get the added value/content for a fraction of the contract's term. You think that makes logical business sense?
He's actually correct. Your scenario simply isn't realistic. It's not realistic to believe that ESPN and Fox would factor in an increase to the Big Ten's contract for schools that haven't even joined the conference, and won't do so for ~5 years. That hasn't happened previously. If you look at the past expansions, the conferences didn't get to rework their TV deals until the new schools actually joined. To say that ESPN and Fox would do an about-face and sign a new contract for teams that won't join for 4-5 years simply strains credulity, especially when you consider this. The Big Ten has just signed its contracts for only 6 years. If the Big Ten signed similar deals in 22-23, then the new schools would only be under contract for 2-3 years. ESPN/Fox would only get the added value/content for a fraction of the contract's term. You think that makes logical business sense?
I don't think he is an ACC fan or defender. I think mostly he just wants OU out of the BIG12. Maybe I'll just wait ten years (if I have that long) and see how this all shakes out. I wouldn't be surprised if certain people are still here repeating the same doomsday scenarios. I'd get a big thrill if the Big12 CCG winner goes on to the playoffs and wins a couple of National Championships in the next few years. That would be freaking hilarious. It would be hilarious and satisfying if both Texas and OU re-upped on the next GOR iteration. It would be hysterical if EVERY Big12 CCG winner went on to the playoffs over the next 10 years. It would be hilarious if the BIG12 comes out of quiet deliberation and adds one or two teams to the conference just when everyone thinks expansion talk is dead. It would be hilarious and satisfying if the BIG12 teams stick together, despite all the people who wish and work for its dissolution on a daily basis. But why hope for things to work out for WVU when you are someone who would rather be right than see that happen?
Read. Comprehend. ....then reply.
I never wrote, '(The flooding) just kind of sucked'. What I did write, '...Buck's analogy kind of sucked' means something entirely diff than what you just expressed in the quote above.
You know I went around and around with Buck over his fanhood as well and I agree he is not a mountaineer and he admits to not being an West Virginian. His opinion of these matters is of no value under those conditions. He does not want to debate or discuss; instead he wants validation and congratulations for being the only one that can see things from his pov.
He can now be tossed into the bin marked know-it-all; ratchet-jawed invader from another conference that has overstayed his welcome. At least he wont be alone in the playpen, we already have a kitten in there for him to play with.
One could take your explanation at face value and move on with it except you added something that changed that opening:
"...you guys are being way too sensitive.
....which by the way, is a very WVian trait."
When you actually live where this stuff is going on and know people who have died. I lost three friends that I went to high school with in this flood, reading someone tell me I am too sentivie about their death pisses me off and makes me angry. I grew up on Elk River and went to Hoover, there are places I can only visit in my memory now.
You nor anyone else has any right to take one thing from that moment even if your words did not convey how you felt. You can aplogize any time for your remarks and if not, you aint much of a man or human being for that matter.
Don't you have to be invited. Never saw an invitation from the ACC. Just rejection. Big 12 is good enough for me and better competition.
Listen, I certainly didn't intend to make the disaster in WV seem trivial. If it reads that way then I apologize.
My home, now a vacation cabin, during the floods in '85 was no further away than fifty feet from the Cheat River (when it was at a normal depth) so I certainly can sympathize with the large number of people suffering after the recent attack from Mother Nature. Lots of death...lots of damage.
However....that doesn't change the point I attempted to originally express. Who cares what Buck (or anyone else) thinks/writes ? You could write that you wished (not that you ever would) my entire family was eradicated from the face of the earth.... ....and I'd giggle. Who cares? Getting upset from the words of people you don't respect in the first place is a sure sign of being too sensitive.
Overall....WVians are insecure and too sensitive. I will not apologize for that opinion.
I used to know a lot of people from the southern part of the state b ut we just sort of lost touch with each other over the years. I sure hope I don't find out some day that someone I used to know was lost. I did flood cleanup in Parsons in 1985. Didn't think that little town would be able to recover but they did. Floods aren't funny.
So, it is true, you are not a respectable human being and you clearly are not a man. I will tell you how a man responds to something like this:
"I am deeply sorry that my remarks hurt you and possibly others as that was never my intention. Please accept my condolences for your loss and for those impacted by this terrible tragedy. I was merely caught up in a thread and did not think wisely before I posted."
Let me clue you in on events like this, You can say two things and only two things ever if you have even a shred of human decency:
"How can I help?"
"Please accept my condolences."
If you say anything else you come of as crass and inhumane. When you try to spin your remarks rather then doing the honorable thing, you come across as a child that knows no better.
You don't deserve to be associated with West Virginia or WVU as you do not have the qualities it takes to be either a West Virginian or a Mountaineer, and you have none of the understanding it takes to proudly proclaim oneself as both.
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