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ACC a better fit than Big 12?

WVU is going to need to spend the next several years attempting to improve in every aspect they are able to that makes the school as attractive as any in the case realignment comes around again.

The BIG 12 has sealed its fate with inaction once again. One can argue if the LHN or "market" ended the conference network--its a moot point. The end result is that once again the BIG 12 sat on its @$$, did nothing but talk for years and what could have been got away again, leaving them once again at a disadvantage with no option to boost revenues to a level their peers will reach soon.

Notre Dame. FSU and Clemson. Louisville. A conference network--again and again and again the leadership has failed. The latest mistake is a 10 team CCG which is guaranteed to be a disadvantage to the other conferences playing the game because of the guarantee of a rematch.

For the next several years the conference will fall behind. In 2023 we should know what the near term future will hold as definitely the Pac 12 will make another poaching run--probably in conjunction with the Big Ten which realistically could eliminate Texas, Tech, OU, OSU, Kansas and probably TCU from the conference by 2025--leaving just WVU, KSU, ISU and Baylor.

WVU has a chance there--but then again the ACC is probably coming apart soon thereafter because their money is just as far behind as the BIG 12s-even if they manage to get their network.

That means maybe one spot in the SEC--but they are going to go for the big markets in North Carolina and Virginia if they can for certain--unless powers to their west in Oklahoma and Texas are available.
 
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michaelwalkerbr said:
The PAC makes every other power 5 conference look good. That ship has sailed, they couldn't poach UNLV.
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No doubt, unless the conference implodes . nobody from the BIG12 is going to leave for the pathetic PAC. If Texas and OU wanted to be in the PAC, they would have been there already. Both Texas and OU decided they prefer to stay in the BIG12.
 
Absolute statements are so off the mark in today's anything goes, all for me, follow the money world. Who....would have dreamed that WVU would be in the Big 12-2=10...a midwest/Texas centric conference? Really?
 
Rootmaster said:
Absolute statements are so off the mark in today's anything goes, all for me, follow the money world. Who....would have dreamed that WVU would be in the Big 12-2=10...a midwest/Texas centric conference? Really?
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Well that is wrong Marshall will never be a power program is an absolute.
 
michaelwalkerbr said:
The PAC makes every other power 5 conference look good. That ship has sailed, they couldn't poach UNLV.
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I'll bet you $1,000,000 on a lifetime bet that if the PAC 12 invited UNLV to join the conference UNLV would accept the invitation. Do we have a bet?
 
LowFatMilk said:
While 'over the top' is a HUGE understatement.... ....I agree with Buck on those points.

It's his abuse of quotes, numbers, and stats that irritate me. I mean, I basically agree with the guy but he argues his point in such a way that it's actually embarrassing for those (aka me) that agree with him.
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Actually, you might not. Buckaineer hasn't been consistent with his positions. For example, before the Big 12 meetings, he was saying the ACC didn't have a prayer of getting a network. Now, he's arguing that the ACC can (if not will) get a network.
 
topdecktiger said:
Actually, you might not. Buckaineer hasn't been consistent with his positions..
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Actually(mocking you)...I'll make my own decisions.

Buck's posts make yours look childish. ...but feel free to keep trashing him.

Buck is EASILY and clearly a more respected poster than you.
 
LowFatMilk said:
Actually(mocking you)...I'll make my own decisions.

Buck's posts make yours look childish. ...but feel free to keep trashing him.

Buck is EASILY and clearly a more respected poster than you.
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I don't really care if he is more respected. I'm more factual. I'll take that any day of the week.
 
topdecktiger said:
Actually, you might not. Buckaineer hasn't been consistent with his positions. For example, before the Big 12 meetings, he was saying the ACC didn't have a prayer of getting a network. Now, he's arguing that the ACC can (if not will) get a network.
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I don't agree with most the things Buck says, but I never saw once where he stated the ACC didn't have a prayer of getting a network. In fact it was the opposite stating the BIG12 was going to be the only conference without a network if they did not expand.
 
Mountaineer Steve said:
I don't agree with most the things Buck says, but I never saw once where he stated the ACC didn't have a prayer of getting a network. In fact it was the opposite stating the BIG12 was going to be the only conference without a network if they did not expand.
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No, he argued with me several times that the ACC couldn't start a network because it didn't have enough content. He argued that the chances would be very slim (is that more favorable?) that the ACC could obtain that content. Now, he is arguing that an ACC network is a distinct possibility. If you want, I will go back to the old threads and repost the comments.
 
The ACC may end up with a network because of contracts..... ...but the cooking channel will always have higher ratings.
 
LowFatMilk said:
The ACC may end up with a network because of contracts..... ...but the cooking channel will always have higher ratings.
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That has nothing to do with the accuracy or consistency of the positions of posters in this discussion. The reason you (and some other posters) don't like me is that you are making arguments based off emotion and I'm not. You also mistakenly assume that I am making emotional arguments, which in turn causes you to react even more emotionally.
 
The problem with the PAC is not so simple.

They've already poached once from the BIg 12 and tried two other times but we're not successful.

But now they are in a dire payout situation. It's lower than the ACCs, while the money they take in is higher than the Big 12.

Their advantage is- their contract comes up for renewal a year prior to the BIG 12 s and more importantly- their partner conference the Big 10 has set up their next new tv deal to be redone right at the point where the BIG 12 must renegotiate. They are ensuring an advantage-- if there is money- they will get to it before the PAC or BIG 12.

They will be in a position to make offers for someone to join within a relatively short period of time and also in position to disrupt any negotiations anyone else is working on. they'll also need something to try to generate more money for their next contract--which means expansion. They-and the networks, will have leverage.

Meanwhile the BIG 12 will be finishing up their existing contract with no guarantees for the future. No new inventory, no new markets. Stagnant or declining viewership highly probable. Being left out of playoffs multiple times. Not a recipe to gain new better contracts or entice someone that is not happy being third fiddle.
 
Mountaineer Steve said:
That is all well and good, but it is just a conjecture at this point that OU and Tex$$ want out of the BIG12, just as it is mine, they prefer to stay in a successful BIG12.

I still say OU options do not include the BIG since they are not an AAU school. It has been their criteria in the past, and I think it will remain their criteria, (with the exception of ND).

Regardless what happens to the BIG12, OU and TexA$$ will always be apart of a Power Conference, be it PAC, ACC or SEC, although my Gut says OU does not want to be in the PAC, two times zones east of most the other conference members.

In there end I just hope WVU will has a spot at the BIG Boy table should things change.
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Without conjecture, this thread wouldn't exist. Texas and OU could be planning to stay, they could be planning to leave. My gut tells me that Boren would need some political cover to leave OK State behind, that the PAC would be a worse move than staying in the Big12 for OU and for Texas, that the Big10 is a better option for Texas and the SEC is the best option for OU. I think the Big12 has a lot of benefits for both but I really don't know if those administrators really believe that or if they are just biding their time. I know there are a lot of fans in the SEC and the BIG10 who ALREADY feel that 14 teams is too many and that tradition is being diluted in order to whore their schools out for more money. The immediate future of the Big12 is bright, but the longterm future is unclear. I'm betting there will be surprises nobody saw coming.
 
BobbyBoucheer said:
yet the Pathetic PAC 12 took Colorado from the Big 12.
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The PAC as it is can't lure anyone. But they are going to get a new tv deal in 2024. They are falling behind other conferences and really the BIG 12- specifically Texas- is their ticket to more money.

They've been withholding lots of revenue from their membership but it's not clear if they've spent that revenue ( distributing less than 70% of revenues taken in). It wouldn't be surprising if they are holding that to entice someone when the time comes. Even if that isn't the case, the Big Ten likes their Rose Bowl partner and aren't likely to let them fall apart- plus they want to be the dominant conference and have great leadership. Highly unlikely they are not going to make a run on those schools- knowing their conference has been inactive and disadvantaged for nearly a decade.
 
Buckaineer said:
The PAC as it is can't lure anyone. But they are going to get a new tv deal in 2024. They are falling behind other conferences and really the BIG 12- specifically Texas- is their ticket to more money.

They've been withholding lots of revenue from their membership but it's not clear if they've spent that revenue ( distributing less than 70% of revenues taken in). It wouldn't be surprising if they are holding that to entice someone when the time comes. Even if that isn't the case, the Big Ten likes their Rose Bowl partner and aren't likely to let them fall apart- plus they want to be the dominant conference and have great leadership. Highly unlikely they are not going to make a run on those schools- knowing their conference has been inactive and disadvantaged for nearly a decade.
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Look if OU and TexA$$ wanted to be in the PAC, they would have done so in 2012. They decided to stay in the BIG12 which they know they can make more money and is a better fit. The B1G and the SEC are a different story. I am sure the SEC would love to get OU, and the B1G possibly the TexA$$.
 
BobbyBoucheer said:
yet the Pathetic PAC 12 took Colorado from the Big 12.
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It wasn't so much as the then Pac-10 took Colorado as it was Colorado was running away from Texas and took the first offer they could get. Nebraska & Texas A&M did the same thing. Missouri, however was not just running from Texas, they had a typical case of ACCitis, where they thought they were better than everyone around them but had no clue just how bad off they really were. Still, for all of their posturing and puffing, they did not get into the Big Ten and they had to settle for the SEC - so odd to type that.
 
Mountaineer Steve said:
Look if OU and TexA$$ wanted to be in the PAC, they would have done so in 2012. They decided to stay in the BIG12 which they know they can make more money and is a better fit. The B1G and the SEC are a different story. I am sure the SEC would love to get OU, and the B1G possibly the TexA$$.
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You are correct.

The only conference Texas will ever be in is their own. It is not a matter if another conference can deal with them or even other power schools in other conferences; Texas can't deal with anyone. They have all the arrogance of Notre Dame but unlike Notre Dame, they only people that fawn over the Texas are the Longhorn fans. They just can't see that though and it is that that will keep them from moving.

They might toy with the idea of going independent, but that would deprive them of one of their favorite things to do; bash their conference mates and in general take a huge squat on any idea that does not treat them like a prima donna.
 
Mountaineer Steve said:
Look if OU and TexA$$ wanted to be in the PAC, they would have done so in 2012. They decided to stay in the BIG12 which they know they can make more money and is a better fit. The B1G and the SEC are a different story. I am sure the SEC would love to get OU, and the B1G possibly the TexA$$.
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Yesterday is not tomorrow.

The Big Ten didn't set itself up for new tv contracts in 2023 by coincidence--its a strategic move coinciding with their partner conference Pac 12s new tv deal--which depends wholeheartedly on getting Texas viewers to care about the Pac.

OU has said if changes were not enacted they would have to look at future options and UT is holding for whatever option suits itself--duping others into going along with them-probably by promising to take them along if it comes to that.
 
Buckaineer said:
Yesterday is not tomorrow.

The Big Ten didn't set itself up for new tv contracts in 2023 by coincidence--its a strategic move coinciding with their partner conference Pac 12s new tv deal--which depends wholeheartedly on getting Texas viewers to care about the Pac.

OU has said if changes were not enacted they would have to look at future options and UT is holding for whatever option suits itself--duping others into going along with them-probably by promising to take them along if it comes to that.
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And yet you use yesterday to claim that BIG12 will miss out on more CPG tomorrow, because of past history rematch games.

See you do use the same criteria to argue different sides of the coin as long as it defends your opinion..
 
Being in the ACC really helped Louisville. They have built a nice program.
 
The PAC stands for Pitiful Ass Conference. They are fifth for a reason, they mostly suck. Texas is not going West two time zones, there is nothing there to attract them. Californication has so many pro teams they can't even support them all. UT would take a HUGE pay cut to go West. It ain't gonna happen.
 
Mountaineer Steve said:
And yet you use yesterday to claim that BIG12 will miss out on more CPG tomorrow, because of past history rematch games.

See you do use the same criteria to argue different sides of the coin as long as it defends your opinion..
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I talked about the past because some don't seem to understand how incredibly stupid having a guaranteed rematch is when NO ONE ELSE DOES.

You seem to be one of those pretending it won't matter. That ignorant step alone could devastate the conferences playoff chances every year.

Its going to be a problem--and the money from it doesn't approach what expansion and a network would have brought--or close the gap with the SEC and Big Ten which is a major problem if you want to keep certain members happy long term.

The "bury your head in the sand and magically ACC schools will come running" approach will be the end of the conference WVU needs.
 
WV Bruno said:
Being in the ACC really helped Louisville. They have built a nice program.
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Really helped, no.

Helped, yes.

Big difference between the two level of help.

Any G5 moving to P5 is going to better their situation but I would not say it was a huge help. The Cards already had a good program and were looking for a home. The ACC really can't take credit for the hard work the Cards did.
 
michaelwalkerbr said:
The PAC stands for Pitiful Ass Conference. They are fifth for a reason, they mostly suck. Texas is not going West two time zones, there is nothing there to attract them. Californication has so many pro teams they can't even support them all. UT would take a HUGE pay cut to go West. It ain't gonna happen.
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Texas can bleed all the money being in the Pac-12 would lose them and be just fine. It would pinch but they could deal with it if they had too. The thing that would hurt Texas is branding. It is ALL about branding for Texas. Playing on the west coast is the worst time zone. ALL of the games that matter were played 5 hours earlier in the day. Playing in the Pac-12 puts your game up against Infomercials and 900 dating ads. Texas thinks of themselves as prime time players and playing a game until 1:00 or 1:30 AM central time is not going to work for them.
 
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Buckaineer said:
I talked about the past because some don't seem to understand how incredibly stupid having a guaranteed rematch is when NO ONE ELSE DOES.

You seem to be one of those pretending it won't matter. That ignorant step alone could devastate the conferences playoff chances every year.

Its going to be a problem--and the money from it doesn't approach what expansion and a network would have brought--or close the gap with the SEC and Big Ten which is a major problem if you want to keep certain members happy long term.

The "bury your head in the sand and magically ACC schools will come running" approach will be the end of the conference WVU needs.
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It doesn't matter if (as you call it) I bury my head in the sand since I have no impact on the future of conference. My thoughts.
  • I do and have believed we will end up with 4 Power Conferences.
  • Even though the PAC is the worst financail shap, they are safe for the same reason Texas and OU won't join. They are too far west and there are much better options.
  • I have always believed the conference that loses out is will come from either ACC or BIG12.
  • The ACC will not launch a successful ACCN.
  • For reason you already know I don't believe as you do, that it is a forgone conclusion the BIG12 is the odd team out.
  • I don't believe an auto rematch is a problem any more than the other CCG. In fact there will be years an auto rematch will guarantee a spot in the final 4. It would have done so 2 years ago.
 
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tgrjoe71 said:
Not to pick a fight or anything, but most of you guys come off as disingenuous talking about being asked to join the ACC. That ship sailed some 4 years ago. It's a dead horse, guys! You're in a good place being in the Big 12. Just enjoy it for Pete's sake. I come over here about once a month or so, and there is always a new post about some WVU folks wanting to talk about leaving the Big 12 and landing in the ACC. Why keep beating this horse?
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Some people talk that way and other fans want no part of the ACC and would like to stay in the Big 12. I think the reason it keeps getting brought up is because of the 5 conferences the ACC and Big 12 are the most susceptible if expansion was to happen again.

For me the travel issue is over rated. I enjoy playing in the Big 12 because the game atmosphere seems so much better that what we are going to get in the ACC. If you take out FSU, Clemson and Va. Tech the game day atmosphere for many of the other programs is just so lacking.
 
topdecktiger said:
Talk about being childish.

You can substitute 'respect' or 'agree with' for "like" and understand my meaning. The point still stands.
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Well I read that the Big 10's new contract is also scheduled to expire just before the Big 12 and ACC's current deal does. The ACC is in just as bad of a position.
 
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