Nunes going beyond DOJ/FBI
- Thread starter TarHeelEer
- Start date
I understand. We do have two alternative sources of media depending on which side of the isle you sit on. Nice thing about facts when they are presented is they leave you with only two options. Accept them for what they are, or deny them. There are no other options. (Well I guess you can also ignore them, but to me that's rejecting them)
Was he Black or White? Trump's a racist anyway, so he was probably Black like you are and that's why Trump hates him. Or he may have been a White Dude like you are who just hates Blacks just like Trump & you right country?
Had the FBI not taken those steps and Page actually was (and may be) a Russian operative, then what would you say? Be honest here. I don't think the FBI had much of a choice here THE, and I am being serious. You look at his from the angle that they were out to derail Trump. Have you ever considered that they were doing what they thought was right? Be honest with me here. Give the FBI credit, they never leaked a word of this investigation that the right believes with this huge plot to bring down DJT...... They could have deep sixed him. They didn't.
I just said Trump is a different conversation. We're not there yet.
From letter:
Similarly, in June 2017, former FBI Director Corney testified publicly before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence that he had briefed President-Elect Trump on the dossier allegations in January 2017, which Mr. Corney described as "salacious" and "unverified."
June 2017 is after the last renewal had been approved.
From FISA process above:
If anything looks unsubstantiated, the application is sent back to the FBI to provide additional evidentiary support – this game of bureaucratic chutes and ladders continues until DOJ is satisfied that the facts in the FISA application can both be corroborated and meet the legal standards for the court.
Do unverified and unsubstantiated not mean the same thing?
More cherry picking. Comey said parts of the dossier were unverified and salacious. Do you think the FBI used the pee pee tape allegations in the FISA warrant for Carter Page?
I just want to get everyone else to the same point I am... that the DOJ/FBI did not follow their process and verify their content before using it as evidence before FISA court, and that the FISA judge did not properly ensure(or the DOJ/FBI person before FISA lied) that they had.
In this specific Carter case, I do not think the FBI as a whole was acting politically, they got caught with their pants down and Hillary played them. It depends on who went before the court (McCabe/Strzok) and what they said.
Grassley said the FISA app didn’t verify the information used from the dossier, but he doesn’t address if that information was verified by the FBI independently. He says “it appears” the the FBI relied heavily on Steele’s reputation and the article, but again that’s only in the context of the FISA app.
Grassley doesn’t address the FISA renewals either. Which are substantial. He also refers to the dossier as compiling “the bulk” of the app, but does not reveal what other information was used in the process. This is also substantial, imo.
I guess all of the deepstate theories that seem confirmed to you, are dependent upon unreleased information. I guess instead of releasing it, we should spend more time talking about it, speculating, and undermining the FBI, the FISA court’s, and the DOJ’s credibility.
If only someone could release the information and get out the truth.
I read Grassley's letter. OM1 didn't because it wasn't reported on the main news media. Boomer doesn't believe it because Grassley is a partisan hack.
But the letter is pretty clear in terms of what it shows about that dossier, and how it wasn't verified correctly to be considered by that FISA court as the basis for spying on an American political campaign. You presented it as Grassley wrote it. boomer, coop, and OM1 just don't like what it says, so they parse it.
Really? Pretty clear on what it shows about the dossier? You mean what information from the dossier was in the FISA app?
He said the information wasn’t corroborated in the FISA app, but it doesn’t address if the information (is it specific about what information?) was independently verified by the FBI prior to the app.
And it’s not that I don’t believe Grassley....I think Nunes is a partisan hack....I just don’t think the Grassley letter confirms procedures were violated.
If I cherry picked, so did Grassley. Considering what he's seen, don't you think he would've stated otherwise, or, not stated the Comey part, if it weren't true?
You're trying to debate a blowhard. As much as Poop dislikes Trump he is awfully a lot like him.
You know boomer you can crawl so deep into the weeds on this that you can't even see your own hands but there is one incontrovertible, unrefutable, inarguable fact of this story. An American political campaign was spied on by its opposition party and apparently for no other valid reason other than to de rail that campaign for the opposition that was spying on him. We know of no other reason presented to the FISA court to grant a spy warrant.
No one else requested those FISA warrants except the Obama DOJ. No one else had access to the informaiton gleened from that spying except members of the Obama administration/DOJ and no one else was illegally unmasked through that spying except on orders or by orders through the Obama administration. All FACTS boomer. Hard cold facts.
You cannot parse or spin your way out of those FACTS and I Pray to God you are as upset with them as you apparently are over how the process to get to the bottom of who's responsible of this illegal breach of our privacy is being handled.
I doubt it, but one can still Pray. Parse away my relativist friend.
To be misleading? I don't know. You can follow the footnote and read exactly what Comey said. In no way did he say the whole dossier was unverified and salacious. You don't think the Trump pee pee tape portion of the dossier was included in the Carter Page FISA application, do you?
You think Grassley is a partisan hack too, that's why you're parsing what his letter clearly says.
If the "golden showers" part of that dossier was true (it wasn't) how was our National security threatened by it Coop?
It was a growing, breathing document, fermented by Blumenthal by that time. I don't know when that specific allegation was added, but the entire dossier had to be referenced by the application, and for the few times I've actually been in a courtroom, I can tell you that any judge worth a hoot would want to read the whole thing if it's a reference document.
Not if portions were used to corroborate other evidence. Your telling now that the FISA court didn’t ask directly if the pee pee tape was verified???? Please.
Why would they include Trump portions in a FISA warrant for Carter Page? I mean I respect your obvi legal scholar-ism, but I don't think I'm going to buy it. Nor have I read that any where credible. You know an easy fix? Trump release the warrant. I mean, it's all uncorroborated dossier stuff, right? How would releasing the application harm nat'l security? Seems even easier now.
Oh...how could I assume Trump was the target of the FISA warrant? Page was just a has been right, that's what Coop says right boomer? Trump? Why he was just some orange colored carnival barker. Page is the guy the FBI was really after! He was threatening our very National security. He was a baaaad man!
When you're trying to trap rats, you don't scare them all off before setting the traps do you? Don't you just bait the traps, then wait for the rats to take the bait?
So the hookers who were peeing on the bed in Moscow were preparing it for Page...not Trump? Trump wasn't supposed to know anything about the pee-pee hookers right? He was off grabbing pussy somewhere else right? In fact that whole dossier was just all about Page right boomer? Hillary was worried about him, not Trump.
I wish you could step back out of your ego every once in a while just to see how stupid some of the stuff you post is
I wish you would allow us into your laboratory so we can see how you mix your patented exlir of Wisdom to judge who else among us is "stupid"? What are you drinking anyway boomer...must be some strong stuff since you always somehow manage to avoid yourself in the evaluations?
You get that much of a buzz from your concoctions?
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Because only the supreme fool knows enough to accurately point out who other fools are compared to himself.
Just following your lead boomer of kind, patient, tolerant, open, non partisan, compassionate, considerate, unbiased, non hate filled political rhetoric and senseless "BS" posts.
Know what I'm going to do boomer (after dinner) I'm going back through all of your posts today where after you insisted on being respectful and considerate of opposing opinions you have proceed to do exactly the opposite of that in nearly every post you have exchanged with me.
Why?
To let you read in your own words how disrespectful, inconsiderate, biased, partisan, mean, senseless, hate filled and ego driven your own posts are. Proof with your own words that you are or do exactly what you accuse others of being or doing.
Wait for it. Then go check yourself before calling other folks stupid or senseless. I know you deny lots of things, but it's pretty hard to deny what you actually post to others on this forum.
But your posts mostly have no real substance. I get something from THE. Even if I don’t agree with him, I understand his thought process, and that’s good for me. I don’t see a process with you at all. Just hate for the other side.
Just like the FISA application, you claim FACTS with attitude, but you don’t know jack about the extent of what’s included or not. At least THE admits this, and even though he sees Grassley as a more confirmation no source than I do, he still admits there is more to be learned. In addition, he was genuine enough to post a petition to have Trump release the FISA docs, which I signed, and this gives him credibility, imo.
I don’t doubt your love for the nation, your passion for your religion, but your ability to discuss or debate is just horrible, imo. You use circular logic, and constantly try to fuse issues, opinions, and posts together.
I am simply saying that the Nunes memo and the Grassley letter are not evidence of anything but concern that procedures might have been not followed. They’re not even proof of that alone. I’m not saying there wasn’t a procedure shortcutted or there wasn’t a desire to mislead the FISA court. But these aren’t FACTS, they are (at best) questions raised by the Nunes and Grassley documents, and could only be confirmed by the application alone and FBI notes on the dossier.
I’m saying I don’t think the FISA court approves surveillance, then renews the app twice (at least) based on using the dossier as the sole evidence. I don’t think the effort was to spy on the campaign, even if the FBI shorted the procedures, and I don’t think the Mueller investigation has no merit.
Your saying you already know what happened. And without at least the insight to your thought processes like THE and Dog reveal, you want to say I am avoiding FACTS.
No matter what anyone posts boomer, you will find fault with it if it doesn't agree with what you already think or want to believe. FACT.
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