Holgrosen, is the pressure on him to win big?

[xgunnx]

I know you can't put much emphasis on rumor's. I'm only sharing this one to possibly get some debate going or varied opinions from follow Mountaineer fans.

I know a couple alumni and a higher up University worker. What I've heard was that coach Holgrosen is being pressured in a subtle way. That anything less then 9 wins could result in a polite "you got to move on coach. "

I personally don't believe a word of the rumor. Coach Holgrosen has improved throughout his time here. I know he has deserved some criticism at times but he has gotten better and fixed some areas where he has been deficient.

Overall the football program is healthy. Recruiting is improved (not including the failed QB recruiting). Team academics is very good with many student athletes graduating. The walk-on part of the program is good as always. NCAA compliance is excellent. The Mountaineers are putting athletes into the NFL. Football revenue is in the black. We have more wins then losses ergo a winning football program.

I'm not saying The Mountaineers have arrived. Like to see a Big XII Championship, major bowl win(s), more 8-10 win seasons and a top ranked defense.

 

[SeronimusPratt]

This is probably the make or break year. Offensive talent is as good as I can remember, a lot of depth and recruiting is definitely on the rise. Upgrades to the facilities are constant and lots of money is rolling in. If DH can't produce a quality outcome, I'd look for Lyons to make a decision. Otherwise I support DH, because I can't live life hating people regardless.

 

[Volatility]

Yep, I would say anything less then a Big 12 Championship appearance, and its time to move on...

If not this year...then when??

Im not sure its a likely probability the stars would align this way again for WVU... To have such a talented & experienced roster, with so much talent leaving other programs, on a schedule year when we play OU, TCU, KState,etc at home...

If he cant produce 1 competitive team in 8 yrs, its time to move on....and Ive been a DH supporter, and Im NOT a fan of firing a coach after 2-3 yrs.. He's had enough time to learn from mistakes and build the program how he saw fit.

This is the yr we get to see what an 8 yr investment returns... Im hopeful this is the catalyst yr for him, that propels the program forward, as we saw with Clemson. If we can manage a 10 Win season, with a Big12 Championship, and can maintain next yr, we may see recruiting take another leg up..

 

[TheOneandOnly77]

If DH is fired who does WVU go after

Lane Kiffin because of his California and Florida ties

To fire DH you need to hire a coach who for sure can do a better job.

Matt Campbell.

This would be interesting if WVU partaked in some conference thievery

Campbell would be big because he is from Ohio.
Has Texas connections for recruits

It more importantly would jump Iowa St pass Texas Tech as WVU's biggest Big XII rival

 

[SeronimusPratt]

Lane Kiffin, you serious?! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

with the money coming in, you'd be surprised what WVU could throw at someone.

If you didn't hire a pre-existing HC, then look at Sonny Cumbie or Doug Meacham

 

[TheOneandOnly77]

Lane Kiffin, you serious?! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

with the money coming in, you'd be surprised what WVU could throw at someone.

The issue with WVU is recruiting

WVU needs a coach who can get them into the Top 25 every year for recruiting
Kiffin is an awesome recruiter.

He should be Plan E or F truthfully.

 

[TheTruthof2018]

Probably more than in 2012.
A lot of people had high hopes for WVU in 2012.
Playing tough teams every week was too much for that team to handle
Fast forward to 2018.
Has DH prepared this team enough to win every week.

Winning at least 8 games every year in this conference is hard.
Oklahoma since 99 has done it the most but even they had seasons without 8 wins

Texas did it from 98-2009 but they recruited Top 5 classes every year.

Long term in this conference WVU will have a tougher chance at winning 8+ because TCU is recruiting better, Iowa State is on the up and the majority of analyst believe that Herman will unleash another Texas monster onto the country.

Even KU is about to invest major money into this conference.

For WVU if they play in a bowl game every year and have a chance to win the conference every few years stick with DH.

 

[mofo]

No
the fan base likes
slick snake oil salesman like PricRod, With guaranteed another
$$12 Mill, or so...

I personally like DH more
than PricRod
(because Dana fair to his players)
but it's a point that
emphasizes the gulibity of WVU ...

No
Dana is not PricRod
But no "hot seat"
but no contract extension, either

Unless 9 wins or b12, 2nd place

 

[Rootmaster]

Coach Holgrosen has improved throughout his time here

Yeah...sure felt he topped off in last year's 7-6 season and annual late season collapse.

 

[WVUALLEN]

I will say he even stays with a 7-5 record and a bowl win. Next year will be make or break year. The end of the contract is nearing.

 

[mounty99]

Lyons will see how the season plays out and consider the factors that went into the final result. If it's not up to his expectations I wouldn't be surprised to see him make a move. If he does move on at this point in Dana's contract he will have a short list he believes can do better and that he can sign.

I like Dana....but at some point Lyons will have to decide if the return is in line with the investment. The university is putting a lot into the program and have taxed the donor base (which has been outstanding). In order to keep up with investments they've priced a large number of fans out of attending games, at some point the donor base will pull back as well without some "big" seasons to keep everyone excited. Even with the hype around this team season ticket sales are not close to10 years ago numbers. (I had a 55 inch flat screen 10 years ago and still went to games) Fans are skeptical of DH ability to win big. Our 40 year win average may be around 7 per season but prior to BS and DH the program was always on the rise. In early 80's Nehlen was winning big games and taming our traditional rivals, followed that up with 2 undefeated seasons in a 5 year span and again had WVU on the map in 96 and 98. Fans were calling for his head from 97 until he retired. Ass or not Dick Rod had things rolling other than year one. Take away the Fiesta and Orange Bowl games and not a whole lot else to get overly excited about.....Stew wasn't able and Dana hasn't been able to recapture that momentum and excitement.

 

[TheTruthof2018]

Lyons will see how the season plays out and consider the factors that went into the final result. If it's not up to his expectations I wouldn't be surprised to see him make a move. If he does move on at this point in Dana's contract he will have a short list he believes can do better and that he can sign.

I like Dana....but at some point Lyons will have to decide if the return is in line with the investment. The university is putting a lot into the program and have taxed the donor base (which has been outstanding). In order to keep up with investments they've priced a large number of fans out of attending games, at some point the donor base will pull back as well without some "big" seasons to keep everyone excited. Even with the hype around this team season ticket sales are not close to10 years ago numbers. (I had a 55 inch flat screen 10 years ago and still went to games) Fans are skeptical of DH ability to win big. Our 40 year win average may be around 7 per season but prior to BS and DH the program was always on the rise. In early 80's Nehlen was winning big games and taming our traditional rivals, followed that up with 2 undefeated seasons in a 5 year span and again had WVU on the map in 96 and 98. Fans were calling for his head from 97 until he retired. Ass or not Dick Rod had things rolling other than year one. Take away the Fiesta and Orange Bowl games and not a whole lot else to get overly excited about.....Stew wasn't able and Dana hasn't been able to recapture that momentum and excitement.

I doubt that even with Rich Rod WVU would have won the Big XII

The issue was prior to 2013-2014 WVU would recruit top talent at a few positions and then fill the roster with Big East or below quality players.

DH changed this by attempting to recruit better players overall.
That is why he says it is important to recruit better depth.

WVU needs a coach who can recruit Top 25 classes every year.

The other school who entered the conference in TCU is at that point.

Those 2011-2012 WVU teams were as good as Rich Rod's teams.

 

[Rootmaster]

Next year will be make or break year.

Gee...when have I heard that before? lol

 

[TheTruthof2018]

Gee...when have I heard that before? lol

Jack Allison is no scrub
WVU will transitioned into another great QB who could be playing on Sundays.
If Long plays his senior year WVU could be even better next year overall

 

[Rootmaster]

Jack Allison is no scrub

Reading comprehension alert. What, if anything, does your response have to do with my comment? Too funny.

 

[TheTruthof2018]

Reading comprehension alert. What, if anything, does your response have to do with my comment? Too funny.

That WVU has hope going into next year even with Grier failing to meet expectations placed on him by some.

 

[Rootmaster]

That WVU has hope going into next year even with Grier failing to meet expectations placed on him by some.

same comment as last time lol.

 

[TheOneandOnly77]

What Dana has failed to do is create a culture of competition, winning and reward.
You don't have to recruit 25 5 star and 4 star players but you must have great players who want to compete even if they are walk ons.

Look at Ed Reed who was a 2 star at Miami
The 5 star Safties like Sean Taylor made him better

To be the best you must emulate the best
Baker Mayfield was someone who Oklahoma recognizes as a winner but he was pushed by Davis Webb and Trevor Knight.
Winning is self explanatory but Reward means getting players drafted in the high round as every college football player dreams about the NFL

 

[WVUALLEN]

Gee...when have I heard that before? lol

Come up with the 4 million and you will have your wish. Or is it the entire portion left on the contract? Which would be even more.

 

[Rootmaster]

WVU has hope going into next year

Good to know that for the first time in HC clueless's eight years we now have...hope!

 

[WVUALLEN]

Will you be here praising 10 wins or complaining Big 12 had a down year? We know what you will do for 7-5. Many more will be added to that club with that record.

 

[TheOneandOnly77]

Good to know that for the first time in HC clueless's eight years we now have...hope!

I actually think Dana has done a decent job in the transition.
He has improved the overall talent and has made WVU competitive in the Big XII.

I don't think he can get them over the hump or to take the next step in recruiting though.

He could prove me wrong still though.

 

[oceantide83]

Lyons doesn't have the balls to get rid of Holgorsen.

 

[TRU2WVU]

If DH is fired who does WVU go after

Lane Kiffin because of his California and Florida ties

To fire DH you need to hire a coach who for sure can do a better job.

Matt Campbell.

This would be interesting if WVU partaked in some conference thievery

Campbell would be big because he is from Ohio.
Has Texas connections for recruits

It more importantly would jump Iowa St pass Texas Tech as WVU's biggest Big XII rival

Depending on how things play out at Ohio State; my money would be on Ryan Day. Long time Addozio (spell?) assistant and offensive coordinator. WVU missed the boat on the best available coach last year (Joe Moorehead) in order to stay with a guy that produces 7 wins/year and can't prepare a team for a bowl.

 

[Rootmaster]

Dana has done a decent job in the transition.

And how many years does it take to get out of "transition" lol!

 

[TheOneandOnly77]

And how many years does it take to get out of "transition" lol!

Three years was the transition phase because of recruiting
Big XII
Years 1-3 18 wins overall 11 conference wins
Years 4-6 25 wins overall 16 conference wins

Years 7-9 ??????

I doubt another step up for Dana and WVU but he has earned the chance for years 7-8

 

[Rootmaster]

he has earned the chance for years 7-8

Yeah...7-6 seasons and lousy end of season record will do that for you I guess. LOL

 

[xgunnx]

This is probably the make or break year. Offensive talent is as good as I can remember, a lot of depth and recruiting is definitely on the rise. Upgrades to the facilities are constant and lots of money is rolling in. If DH can't produce a quality outcome, I'd look for Lyons to make a decision. Otherwise I support DH, because I can't live life hating people regardless.

I forgot to mention the facility upgrades. That too has to be considered, quality of the team facilities matter especially in recruitment.

Also I should mention the offensive style Coach Holgrosen brought in has been enjoyable. The coach has adapted the offense to the talent he has available. That's a positive. HC's that don't adapt or change things to best fit the athletes that are on the roster are soon gone.

We have been able to recruit the WR position real well because of the offensive style. I'm not sure why we have had our share of poor QB recruitment. Luckily Holgrosen has been able to find transfers and serviceable QB's.

My only problem with The Mountaineers is the defense. I like Coach Gibson and he has shown he can recruit quality defensive players. I'm just not a big fan of the 3-3-5. Being a long time Mountaineer fan I have got to see some really great defense. I know the 3-3-5 can be a top ranked defense Just wish it would get there a little quicker. Overall defense should never be ranked below 20-30. IMO

I support Holgrosen but I think a 7 win season will unfortunately cause the hot seat to warm up. Will he be let go? No but the hot seat and pressure from the big donor's will increase.

You are correct about the depth we now have. A think a lot of fans don't realize this was a huge problem with the football program in the past. Some fans also don't remember or have selective memory of the rooster being short of scholarship players. That problem went all the way back to RichRod then Coach Stew. The scholarship reduction was hurtful and added to the problem.

Sorry about the long post but you made a good point and I wanted to expand on it some.

 

[TexasisBack]

Yeah...7-6 seasons and lousy end of season record will do that for you I guess. LOL

Expectations define your gratitude.

You can do worse than DH by far.

TCU and Oklahoma State are the teams who WVU must compete with so you can argue that he cannot beat the teams he need to so WVU can compete for conference titles.

 

[TheOneandOnly77]

Yeah...7-6 seasons and lousy end of season record will do that for you I guess. LOL

The Big XII is not the Big East.
Put WVU against their 2011 schedule

WVU would have won 10 games at least with the biggest challenge being the home game against LSU.

Big East results will not come until WVU is out recruiting the competition.

My issue with DH is off the field because even with being outrecruited DH has made this team competitive

Problem with getting a coach who can recruit is sometimes the X's and O's are lacking

Truthfully recruiting has more to do with the people around the program
Meaning the boosters and fans

 

[Nova Mountaineer]

Yes he's under pressure from at least two sources - first Lyons said in an interview maybe a month or so ago, that he
has high expectations for the football program this year. As I recall the statement was extremely strong. The other
aspect of pressure is from the fans as the result of the high expectations they've heard, seen and read about
this team. I am very much surprised that the season ticket sales is dropping again. Can't figure that one out.

Given these high expectation I believe it's safe to say that if this teams doesn't win at least 9 games, the season
ticket sales for next will drop 15-20%. I'm high on this team and not on the "O" side. I just have a feeling that this
"D" line could be nasty dawgs. The only concern I have is Dana's ability to manage the program - i.e. special teams,
not giving up big third plays on "D". I know we have a good percentage of 3rd down stops, but in very critical
situations we have blown it a lot. Then on the "O" side in third and short situations and inside the red zone we
can be sucky.

I'm just not sure that Dana has the management ability to solve these problems.

 

[Rootmaster]

The Big XII is not the Big East.

The Big XII isn't the Big XII either...Big 12-2=10. However got to love the ignorance in making the Big East and Big 12-2=10 comparison. I mean Miami and Virginia Tech for example aren't on the same bottom feeding level of Kansas lol. But hey got to give you points for working on this tired old excuse for the upcoming season under clueless DH.

 

[TheOneandOnly77]

The Big XII isn't the Big XII either...Big 12-2=10. However got to love the ignorance in making the Big East and Big 12-2=10 comparison. I mean Miami and Virginia Tech for example aren't on the same bottom feeding level of Kansas lol. But hey got to give you points for working on this tired old excuse for the upcoming season under clueless DH.

West Virginia didn't start wining 9 games every year until BC, Miami, Va Tech left

 

[TheTruthof2018]

The Big XII isn't the Big XII either...Big 12-2=10. However got to love the ignorance in making the Big East and Big 12-2=10 comparison. I mean Miami and Virginia Tech for example aren't on the same bottom feeding level of Kansas lol. But hey got to give you points for working on this tired old excuse for the upcoming season under clueless DH.

Who would be your Top 5 to replace DH

Better question is who do you think can win in the Big XII at a better rate while pulling in recruiting classes on the bottom half of the conference every year.

There has been only been one coach who can and that is the LHC Bill Snyder.
Bill Snyder is of a time long past. A student of one of the most underrated coaches of all time and that is Hayden Fry.

The Hayden Fry/Bill Snyder/Kirk Ferentz style is no longer popular unless it is ingrained

 

[TheTruthof2018]

If the Big East was still around WVU would have finished second in recruiting.
Former Big East recruiting rankings
Louisville 29
Pitt 46
Cincinnati 47
Syracuse 50

West Virginia was 35th.
In the Big XII that was sixth.

WVU needs to be closer to 20.
Dana Holgersen is recruiting as well as any coach in WVU history.
Rich Rod wasn't any better of a recruiter

 

[Volatility]

If DH is fired who does WVU go after

Lane Kiffin because of his California and Florida ties

To fire DH you need to hire a coach who for sure can do a better job.

Matt Campbell.

This would be interesting if WVU partaked in some conference thievery

Campbell would be big because he is from Ohio.
Has Texas connections for recruits

It more importantly would jump Iowa St pass Texas Tech as WVU's biggest Big XII rival

It all comes down to....... #RECRUITING & #CREATIVITY

PJ Fleck may be an option, as hes proven to be a good recruiter. You have to do three main things...

1 increase the talent level
2, deploy creative schemes that fully exploit that varying talent you have from yr to yr.
3. Create a Positive culture of competition & Pride

Lane can do #1 and #2, but theres an obvious character flaw there... I like coaches who are personable, who have outgoing & positive personality traits... That can be detailed oriented & creative. You have to find someone who can connect with HS players..

If they guy can do #1 and #2, or #3 and #2, you spend the money and hire the best recruiters possible... Guys that serve no other function, other then bringing talent to the sc

If DH is fired who does WVU go after

Lane Kiffin because of his California and Florida ties

To fire DH you need to hire a coach who for sure can do a better job.

Matt Campbell.

This would be interesting if WVU partaked in some conference thievery

Campbell would be big because he is from Ohio.
Has Texas connections for recruits

It more importantly would jump Iowa St pass Texas Tech as WVU's biggest Big XII rival

hmmm,,, PJ Fleck maybe.. or BUSH HAMDAN

Option1: Very Good Recruiter, but lacks XO's/creativity

Option2: Very good XO's, but cant recruit

Option 1, University can pay more for good OC's & DC's

Option2, University can pay more for good recruiters

You gotta put some of this on the University... They have to increase their budget for recruiters, DC's, OCs, assistants, analyst, etc... To get the best, you have to pay the best... simple mathematics. Humans, for the most part, are independently driven... If you are offering Top Salaries for Recruiters, you'll get top talent... usually.. Im sure some are overrated, but that ole saying is true... you get what you pay for.. Some of this resides firmly on the University and what they can afford to pay. We will never be able to compete with Blue Bloods, paying for facility updates, paying for new equipment updates, paying for top shelf assistants, paying for top shelf recruiters, paying for top shelf coaches, etc... Also..simple mathematics.

WV has a significant population & economic disadvantage, compared to many other states & universities. Our boosters are not as wealthy as others... In order for WVU to have the same level of spendable resources as other Blue Bloods, we have to deploy more creative ways to do more with less, we have to achieve a > ROI, so to speak...

This is why Im currently trying to contact someone of significance within the MAC. I have a few ideas, potentially could increase the Dollar Donated / Impact efficiency. However, after a few emails going unanswered, Ill try 1 more time, then Ill shelf it & just donate from a monetary perspective.

Championships are won by the Vision & Insight of the Administration. I think Lyons has an aggressive plan to upgrade our facilities, and being pro-active, which is great! Just because you dont hear him talking about something, doesnt mean he's not already planning for it.. I honestly think Lyons is a really good AD, and he's bidding his time, until its the right time. No need to shake the apple tree, before the apples are ripe..

 

[oceantide83]

Yes he's under pressure from at least two sources - first Lyons said in an interview maybe a month or so ago, that he
has high expectations for the football program this year. As I recall the statement was extremely strong. The other
aspect of pressure is from the fans as the result of the high expectations they've heard, seen and read about
this team. I am very much surprised that the season ticket sales is dropping again. Can't figure that one out.

Lyons says that at the beginning of every season. There's no hidden meaning behind it. The lack of ticket sales indicates the fans are not fooled by the supposed "high expectations." They've heard that many times before only to be let down. This year will be no different.

 

[Rootmaster]

Who would be your Top 5 to replace DH

My opinion, like yours and everyone else on this forum, doesn't mean jack crap. Names are meaningless. Attributes however are important. So...proven recruiter with blue blood school rep...someone who understands attitude and the term "student athlete"...a motivator for the team, school and community...and please, someone who isn't a flag football advocate.

 

[TexasisBack]

I think Dana Holgersen needs to bring in someone with a different perspective.

Watching WVU is like watching Tech and Oklahoma State.

Too many bubble screens to make the safeties honest
Works on some teams but not in the important games.

I am a fan of the Auburn Jet Sweep.
Watch Gus Malzahn's offense
His version of the spread should be brought to WVU.

WVU has the QB in Grier that can move and the speed in the backfield to make this play dangerous.

Dana needs another Wes Welker.
Some of you may not know but DH is the reason for Wes Welker.

A more recent example would be Ryan Swope with A&M.

They need someone who can move the chains by running perfect routes on 3 and 4.

 

[Volatility]

As far as this year goes, and DH's contract, Basically, no matter what happens, DH will have 2 more yrs. Personally, I hope its a HUGE success and the catalyst yr for spring boarding the program into the 1in3 yrs compete for a Big12+CFP.. which is probably the best we can hope for at WVU, no matter how much we spend....unless its spent in an unethical manner(Nobody wants to do, but it does happen)..

{Side note, Im hopeful they will start to pay these student athletes, at least those who dress. Something like $2K per game, $3k for a conference Champ & bowl game, for players who dress, unless injured.. Using likeness creates differences... and universities could "Claim" they sold xmillion Qb jersey's.. Every player should receive an equal amount, as long as they dress, or are listed as 1 or 2nd string & injured. }

5 year Plan
1st yr top 25 Recruiting class Win 8 games+Bowl
2nd yr top 25 recruiting class Win 9 games+Bowl
3rd yr top 20 recruiting class win 9 games+Bowl
4th yr top 20 recruiting class win 10 games + Big12 appearance
5th yr top 15 recruiting class win 11 games + Big12 + CFP appearance

6th yr and beyond should be self-sustaining as long as an Average year is a 8 Win + Bowl and have a top 20-25 recruiting class.. Every 2-4 years be in a position to seriously compete for the Big12 & CFP appearance. I think this is an achievable goal, any more would not be realistic, given who we are going up against in our league.

OU, Texas, TCU, Baylor mainly, all having recruiting & monetary advantages... Not including the schools that are Geographically competing for recruits, OSU, Penn St, VT, TENN,Michigan, Clemson

I think DH can accomplish this, if he has the updated facilities & can hire quality recruiters.

That said, Personally, one flaw I see with DH.... His inability to bring someone into his staff that has different concepts/philosophies...

Having fresh eyes, diversity, different perspectives, etc, is a really good thing. In fact, most super successful businesses/individuals usually combine fields of practice/ideas/methods/etc... If Spav doesnt work out, Id like to see DH bring an OC in that deploys a somewhat different concept, someone outside the Leach tree... This way they could work together and take concepts from both philosophies to produce something unique..

I think Dana Holgersen needs to bring in someone with a different perspective.

Watching WVU is like watching Tech and Oklahoma State.

Too many bubble screens to make the safeties honest
Works on some teams but not in the important games.

I am a fan of the Auburn Jet Sweep.
Watch Gus Malzahn's offense
His version of the spread should be brought to WVU.

WVU has the QB in Grier that can move and the speed in the backfield to make this play dangerous.

Dana needs another Wes Welker.
Some of you may not know but DH is the reason for Wes Welker.

A more recent example would be Ryan Swope with A&M.

They need someone who can move the chains by running perfect routes on 3 and 4.

Gus Malzahns offense was here, in fact many would say it was perfected here... with RichRod.. As Rich Rod, Urban Meyer, & Chip Kelley are known to be the God fathers of the Spread-Run scheme..

I agree at the College level, the best offenses are those that has a Dual threat QB, that has a decent-good arm. It just adds so many elements that must be defended making DC Game Planning very challenging. DH brought the jet sweep to forefront with Tavon in the Orange Bowl vs Clemson, since then you've seen it implemented at many other programs.

I also agree, a major fault with DH is he seems to be afraid to bring someone in thats outside the Mike Leach tree, or someone he's not work with in the past.. Having an OC that has different concepts, a fresh new perspective, could be great. If they worked together, they could extract variations of both to design something truly unique. If Spav doesnt work out, Id like to see the next OC be from a different Offensive philosophy... It can still be a Spread scheme, but different variations..

After reviewing different schemes, I really like Chris Peterson & Bush Hamdan's schemes deployed at Washington.. Dating back to their Boise State days... To not belong to a P5 conference, they sure as hell recruited very well & deployed creative concepts that fully exploited the talent they had. When you have time, I invite you to do a little research on Boise State & Washington's offense...