You are the only one calling out the writer. Why? Shoot the messenger. Stop crying.
Gee: Big 12 puts expansion on hold
- Thread starter Mountaineer Steve
- Start date
You are the only one calling out the writer. Why? Shoot the messenger. Stop crying.
Yeah. I mean, it's not like it's that big of a revelation anyway. UConn and Cincinnati don't bring big money. Shocker.
Buck attacks everyone who doesnt agree with him. Now Gordon Gee done handed out the butthurt.
Dave, it doesn't work that way. As a former writer, copy editor and still a regular reader of Greg Madia's work, I know better. He would never leave that statement hanging without an explanation if it were possible to obtain one. Just a few more words and it is a slam dunk scoop, picked up by everyone with over 10,000 reads. Madia is a class act, that's why he let the statements stand on their own except for saying what he truly believed they were inferring. I'm done. We will know in June.
Its nothing short of amazing how group gang up goes off on someone and then accuses that person of "attacking". I pointed out that an article purporting to be one thing is actually something else and demonstrated clearly why that is so. Those now freaking out about it can't demonstrate anything--simply throw out verbal barbs and use their imagination to suppose some imaginary scenario rather than dealing with the facts of the matter.
Why is it so difficult for some of you to deal with facts? Why do you get so bitterly upset with facts?
The BIG 12 hasn't decided anything about expansion. The conference will disseminate information produced by their analysts and go over that information in May and June -either drawing conclusions at that time or later in the summer.
Why is it so difficult for some of you to deal with facts? Why do you get so bitterly upset with facts?
The BIG 12 hasn't decided anything about expansion. The conference will disseminate information produced by their analysts and go over that information in May and June -either drawing conclusions at that time or later in the summer.
Only one person in this thread is upset about what Gee said. Only one person is twisting the article and accusing the writer of dishonesty. Who is upset here? The answer to that is p re tty obvious.
The writer said two things that are in quesiton
- Gee also serves on the Big 12 expansion committee. At this time, the league does not have plans to move to twelve schools.
- The expansion committee still does research on potential future members, but none of the data is substantial enough for the league to pull the trigger on adding any new members.
These statements are surrounded by other direct quotes.
In your opinion, these are statements made by the author
My opinion is they are either direct quotes not properly identified or a paraphrase of what Gee actually said.
The difference is your opinion is wrong.
Nobody has a problem dealing with facts. You are the one presenting your opinion as facts. The issue is, everybody else can read the writing on the wall. If you really want to be stubborn about it, fine. If you want to keep harping on the May meeting, fine. The only problem is, when this May meeting comes and goes, and there still isn't any expansion, you can't keep saying, "Just wait. It will happen in the future." The reality is, the only teams to choose from are a bunch of second rate mid-major schools. Those schools aren't going to magically produce a revenue windfall, even though no other conference though they were worth enough to pick them.
By the way, you want to talk about people using their imaginations and not dealing with facts. You STILL have not admitted that you were wrong about this article. You said this article was not an interview, and it clearly was. You threw out "verbal barbs" on that issue, and you were WRONG.
Tiger, why should anyone on this board care what you think about anything. You are an ACC fan. You have tried to disparage the conference WVU is in at every turn, with every statement, yet you think what you have to say is somehow important or regarded, and you go out of your way to try to turn people away from anything I discuss.
That's because you don't have the BIG 12s best interest at heart. You are horrified that the BIG 12 is going to adopt these changes and that will put the conference even further ahead of your conference. Maybe you are ashamed that you pushed so hard years ago to keep ACC schools like yours from moving and giving themselves better futures? Maybe you are one of those truly delusional ACC fans that fantasizes a BIG 12 giant will come to your last place conference after the imaginary break up that you and your cronies are desperate for? No matter.
You don't speak for me and no one needs you to disparage me daily to puff you and your BIG 12 hating ego up.
People can make their own decisions. They don't need you to tell them what to think or what to read or what to understand. I don't need a buddy buddy system to speak the truth or in your case to try and back up lies and misinformation. I stand on my own and could give a rats a$$ about you or your feelings.
The BIG 12 is going to meet and go over data they are now collecting and the most likely outcome will be that they will expand, create a conference network and add a CCG and grow financially even further ahead of your schools and conference. You can whine and moan about it all day and spew your $h!t at me night and day and it won't change any of it. If you dupe a few into following you along the way and hating me--that's your problem and theirs, not mine. I'll keep on correcting your b.s. as long as you spew it.
That's because you don't have the BIG 12s best interest at heart. You are horrified that the BIG 12 is going to adopt these changes and that will put the conference even further ahead of your conference. Maybe you are ashamed that you pushed so hard years ago to keep ACC schools like yours from moving and giving themselves better futures? Maybe you are one of those truly delusional ACC fans that fantasizes a BIG 12 giant will come to your last place conference after the imaginary break up that you and your cronies are desperate for? No matter.
You don't speak for me and no one needs you to disparage me daily to puff you and your BIG 12 hating ego up.
People can make their own decisions. They don't need you to tell them what to think or what to read or what to understand. I don't need a buddy buddy system to speak the truth or in your case to try and back up lies and misinformation. I stand on my own and could give a rats a$$ about you or your feelings.
The BIG 12 is going to meet and go over data they are now collecting and the most likely outcome will be that they will expand, create a conference network and add a CCG and grow financially even further ahead of your schools and conference. You can whine and moan about it all day and spew your $h!t at me night and day and it won't change any of it. If you dupe a few into following you along the way and hating me--that's your problem and theirs, not mine. I'll keep on correcting your b.s. as long as you spew it.
See, this is the whole problem. I do NOT disparage West Virginia or the Big 12. In fact, earlier in this very thread, I disputed the notion that the Big 12 was even in trouble in the first place.
The problem is that you read too much into comments. You think if I don't say, "The Big 12 is the most awesome conference ever!" that somehow I'm "disparaging" the Big 12 or West Virginia. I haven't said anything negative about the Big 12 or West Virginia. If you would stop twisting around my words, you would see that.
For example, I said that expanding would not bring the Big 12 more revenue. Now why did I say that? I didn't say it to be negative about the Big 12. I said it because that's my honest analysis of the situation.
-The most desirable teams are already in P5 conferences with GOR agreements
-The only teams available are mid-major schools with limited value
-The other forms of revenue (bowls, NCAA) would have to be split extra ways
-The Big 12's TV contract has the pro rata clause
-Texas is unlikely to agree to a Big 12 Network, due to the LHN.
-Other schools, such as TCU, have expressed the desire to stay at 10
-The rule change now allows the Big 12 to have a CCG
None of that is "disparaging" to West Virginia or the Big 12. It's ridiculous to think that any of these points are disparaging.
When you add all that together, it's reasonable to conclude that expansion won't happen. The problem is, you get all pissed off and go ape shit whenever I, or anyone else, points that out. Then, you respond by personally attacking whoever disagrees with you, ignoring any evidence counter to your opinion, bringing up points that are completely based on conjecture, and insisting that only one outcome is possible, regardless of facts indicating otherwise. You are not a saint, nor a victim, in this discussion.
Last edited:
No news here the only expansion that's gonna happen in the near future is the amount of posts concerning expansion
So you don't call the following an attack which by the way was in the second sentence of your first response to this thread?
For those such as M Steve who are comprehensively challenged, I'll point it out to you--nowhere.
You are joking right? Many of the posts you make attack me- whether I am in the conversation or not- usually not, but now you are crying because you get called out for a change? You have shown how you like to be communicated with and I've responded exactly that way. What, you don't like it? Too fing bad- you are responsible for it.
For those of you following this more intently than I am. Have there been any definitive statements about the CCG? My feeling all along has been that the numbers will favor holding this game, and that the numbers (additional income, value added for TV contracts plus an additional data point) will be significant enough to overcome the negatives of a rematch and the possibility that it could result in an upset and elimination of a conference representative to the Playoff. Has any conference spokesperson had anything to say on this? Not sure I would call Boren a conference spokesperson, by the way.
Three of the coaches were asked about it and basically said they like things they way they are. They really don't want the added pressure of having to win a CCG regardless of anything else. I understand that!
Sorry if it offended your poor little feelings, but I was just calling you out as the a liar you are Now go run home can cry to momma
Even though OU made into the CFP, the past two years, has shown that the BIG12 is at a disadvantage for not having the 13 data point. If the trend continues they will have to make a move
What sucks is they don't give credit to the BIG12 for playing a full 9 game round robin. The ACC and SEC play 8 CG, and don't have to play all toughest programs especially the SEC East which is as bad as the ACC. In addition the SEC plays more OOC cupcakes than any other conference, yet they are not penalized because they are the SEC.
Last edited:
Neither the big 12 or the ACC will win. Both of the leftovers will be the 4th conference won't matter what you call it. WVU and Pitt will be together again in this conference along with cuse, tt, iowa state, miami, wake, baylor tcu etc.
. From the old big east, Rutgers will be the only one sitting pretty, somehow.. VT possibly.
You may be right, but probably not in my lifetime. That would probably be somewhere around 2026. Meanwhile, WVU has to take care of WVU by improving enough to compete for the conference crown.
I don't know if this big 10 deal goes down, they could very possibly push that time table up. GoR, buyouts, whatever when you quadruple the money your moving. Ive recently read Texas, UNC, ND, GT, even Oklahoma Kansas and FSU rumored over the past week but then again..the moves that end up happening half the time are rumors we never hear.
One of those conferences will come out way ahead. The B1G still wants UNC and UVA, possibly Dork either GA Tech/ND. If the BIG12 is left unscathed, they will be able to pick up programs like FSU, Clemson, UofL and program to be named later. If that were to happen I would say the BIG12 comes out the winner.
I can see all major conferences going to 18 teams. And the BIG will be the first to go after teams and I do think you are right about UVA and UNC. Here is what I have
BIG 10
East
Penn State
Rutgers
Maryland
UNC
Virginia
Georgia Tech
Notre Dame
Ohio State
Indiana
West
Michigan
Michigan State
Nebraska
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Iowa
Purdue
N'Western
Illinois
SEC
East
Kentucky
Tenn.
Vanderbuilt
South Carolina
Florida
NC State
V. Tech
Duke
Georgia
West
Alabama
Auburn
Mississippi
Ole Miss
Arkansas
LSU
Texas A&M
Houston
Missouri
Big 12
East
WVU
Pittsburgh
Louisville
Memphis
Cincinnati
Florida State
Clemson
UCONN
Miami (FL)
West
Texas
Texas Tech
Baylor
TCU
Iowa State
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St.
Kansas
Kansas St.
PAC
East
Arizona
Arizona State
Utah
Colorado
BYU-They need to land somewhere
UNLV
USC
UCLA
West
Oregon
Oregon State
Washington
Washigton State
Stanford
California
Boise State
Nevada
Air Force
Then I think the next best conference Would be a combo of the AAC and Conference USA and what is left over from the ACC
AAC/Conf USA/ACC
National
Boston College
Temple
Navy
Syracuse
Wake Forest
East Carolina
Marshall
Army
Old Dominion
American
So Miss
Central Florida
South Florida
Tulsa
Tulane
SMU
Rice
UTEP
W. Kentucky
Each Conference will have multiple teams that can win big and make the Playoffs for the title.
BIG 10
East
Penn State
Rutgers
Maryland
UNC
Virginia
Georgia Tech
Notre Dame
Ohio State
Indiana
West
Michigan
Michigan State
Nebraska
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Iowa
Purdue
N'Western
Illinois
SEC
East
Kentucky
Tenn.
Vanderbuilt
South Carolina
Florida
NC State
V. Tech
Duke
Georgia
West
Alabama
Auburn
Mississippi
Ole Miss
Arkansas
LSU
Texas A&M
Houston
Missouri
Big 12
East
WVU
Pittsburgh
Louisville
Memphis
Cincinnati
Florida State
Clemson
UCONN
Miami (FL)
West
Texas
Texas Tech
Baylor
TCU
Iowa State
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St.
Kansas
Kansas St.
PAC
East
Arizona
Arizona State
Utah
Colorado
BYU-They need to land somewhere
UNLV
USC
UCLA
West
Oregon
Oregon State
Washington
Washigton State
Stanford
California
Boise State
Nevada
Air Force
Then I think the next best conference Would be a combo of the AAC and Conference USA and what is left over from the ACC
AAC/Conf USA/ACC
National
Boston College
Temple
Navy
Syracuse
Wake Forest
East Carolina
Marshall
Army
Old Dominion
American
So Miss
Central Florida
South Florida
Tulsa
Tulane
SMU
Rice
UTEP
W. Kentucky
Each Conference will have multiple teams that can win big and make the Playoffs for the title.
Last edited:
Left Over conferences
MWC
West
New Mexico
New Mexico State
Wyoming
Hawaii
Fresno State
San Jose State
San Diego State
East
Idaho
N. Texas
UTSA
Texas State
Arkansas State
Eastern Washington
Montana
Sun Belt
North
Midd Tenn State
UAB
La Tech
UNCC
Appalachian State
Georgia Southern
Alabama State
Troy
UL Monroe'
UL Lafayette
Florida Atlantic
Florida Int
James Madison
Jacksonville State
MAC
West
Toledo
Ball State
N. Illinois
W. Michiga
C. Michigan
E. Michigan
South Dakota
East
UMASS
Buffalo
Kent
Akron
Bowling Green
Ohio
Buffalo
MWC
West
New Mexico
New Mexico State
Wyoming
Hawaii
Fresno State
San Jose State
San Diego State
East
Idaho
N. Texas
UTSA
Texas State
Arkansas State
Eastern Washington
Montana
Sun Belt
North
Midd Tenn State
UAB
La Tech
UNCC
Appalachian State
Georgia Southern
Alabama State
Troy
UL Monroe'
UL Lafayette
Florida Atlantic
Florida Int
James Madison
Jacksonville State
MAC
West
Toledo
Ball State
N. Illinois
W. Michiga
C. Michigan
E. Michigan
South Dakota
East
UMASS
Buffalo
Kent
Akron
Bowling Green
Ohio
Buffalo
I don't see all conferences going to 18 teams. The B1G and maybe the SEC TV rights deal can handle that many mouths to feed, but not the other five. Even if the BIG12 picks up ACC teams such as FSU, and Clemson, I don't think the can go to 18 without diminishing returns.
I dont know about that if the BIG 10 picked up ND, GT, UNC, UVA those are very stable programs in multiple sports. The SEC picked up NCST, VT, Duke and Houston those are quality programs with nice tv markets. The Big 12 would be adding bowl teams in football and great teams in BB. The PAC would Boise, BYU, would add to the PAC sports
That's been going on forever, though. The Big Ten didn't play a round robin, except for a few years in the early 80s. The SEC was particularly bad about it, since they only played 5 or 6 conference games into the 80s. When Georgia won the SEC from 80-82, they never played Alabama.
You realize the ACC controls a lot of TVs up and down the East Coast of the United States right? There aren't many ACC Universities that are dying to play football and basketball in Iowa, WV, Kansas and Oklahoma. Much less a bunch of sports that don't provide revenue. So talking about the death of the ACC is downright silly. The only Universities that makes sense for the Big10 from the ACC would be Georgia Tech and North Carolina. Texas and/or Oklahoma would make sense as well. Other than those four I just don't see a good match for Big 10 from either conference. It looks like FSU/North Carolina/VT and/or Oklahoma/Texas would be the big targets for the SEC. The ACC would survive their two losses if it came down to that. The Big 12 would be done and 2 to 4 Big 12 teams would go to ACC. I believe WVU will be in the ACC by 2025 after Oklahoma packs up and leaves Big 12. I see WVU, TCU, Texas or Cinci and ND filling out the final 16 team ACC.
The ACC has made it very clear too many times that the only way they would accept WVU would be if congress passed a federal law requiring it. And only then if it was upheld by the US Supreme Court after an appeal of an order by a US District Judge. They did not use words, they used actions.
You are wrong about who the BIG wants and who would be a good fit. They would want UNC, DUKE, UVA, and GA Tech. OU, would be a good fit and addition to the BIG. The ONLY university without AAU status the B1G would consider is ND, so you can throw Texas out the window.
The SEC does not need FSU, but would love to add VA Tech and a NC team.
Finally if the BIG12 can some get to a network before the ACC, dominos will start falling
I don't disagree, but three years ago they would never had taken UofL either. Had UofL gone to BIG12, instead, WVU would now be in the AAC
This discussion seems to center on the SEC and B1G for expansion to 16 teams.
If there is going to be 4 (16 team conferences), then the Pac-12 is going to have to pick up 4 schools and they will be going east for BIG-12 schools.
The BIG 12 will not have its own network as long as the LHN exists.
Currently, 6 Big 12 Conference teams Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State and West Virginia come from states that have a combined population of 10 million.
Texas giving up the LHN and the $15 million per year they now receive will never be recouped from a BIG-12 network.
Oklahoma without expansion already is looking to leave and the B1G, SEC, Pac-12 and ACC are all going to go after Texas.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
If there is going to be 4 (16 team conferences), then the Pac-12 is going to have to pick up 4 schools and they will be going east for BIG-12 schools.
The BIG 12 will not have its own network as long as the LHN exists.
Currently, 6 Big 12 Conference teams Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State and West Virginia come from states that have a combined population of 10 million.
Texas giving up the LHN and the $15 million per year they now receive will never be recouped from a BIG-12 network.
Oklahoma without expansion already is looking to leave and the B1G, SEC, Pac-12 and ACC are all going to go after Texas.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
Last edited:
If Oklahoma leaves, the BIG12 will be seriously wounded. If Texas leaves, it is probably a fatal wound. If they both leave, it will be DOA and no combination of Cinncy, UCONN, Memphis, Co. State or BYU will save it from being no better than CUSA or the AAC. The only thing that would come close to guaranteeing OK will stay would be a BIG12 network. The only thing that will keep Texas from doing whatever they want is Texas. Whatever makes both Texas and Oklahoma happy is what I want.
And yet the B1G is going to make the ACC its bitch taking UVA, UNC, DUKE and GT. SEC gets VT, and NC State. FSU and Clemson will be forced to the BIG12, leaving the ACC to merge with the AAC
No offense to anyone offering their opinion, belief or hypothesis. If President Gee read this entire thread he would likely say, "Gee, I caused all that?" (Pun intended) But being the publicity hound he has always been, he would likely think of something else to say that could be interpreted more than one way without violating the 'One voice' agreement of the Big 12.
