Youth motivated to political action, and there just has to be a conspiracy theory

[Original Mountaineer1]

This is so amusing to me...Trump wasn't responsibile for anything prior to that sad massacre last week. The economy? It was all Obama's. Peace breaking out in the Middle East? It was due to coalition building from previous administrations. The election? The Russians stole it for him, he didn't even win the popular vote! Legislative agenda? Dismal failure couldn't even get Health care or a budget passed, hated by most Americans and despised by folks even in his own party! A bufoon, wholesale resignations from his team because they're so disgusted with his inept leadership right?

One Florida massacre later...It's all Trump's fault, he's not doing enough to protect our Children, he's against kids being slaughtered... he simply doesn't care...so we need more gun control...ban assault weapons...get rid of Trump...enough is enough!!!!!

We'd all be safer if he was gone...impeach him now!!!!!!

(Hillarious)

I wish he was gone from office but your examples are not true for most. I think you and others take the far left and assume all people left of center believe that way. It isn't the case. I don't like DJT. I think he is a nasty human being and easily swayed by which member of his inner circle he just spoke with or which TV show he just watched. I am not against all of his agenda.
BTW ... He in no way is responsible for the shooting last week. That shooter spent his childhood under the Bush admin

 

[TarHeelEer]

And the free will thing...it doesn’t exist in the voting booth?

Of course it does. Research Calvinism vs. Arminianism, and give me a summary of your findings.

PS> This is why Christianity can't have nice things.

 

[atlkvb]

I wish he was gone from office but your examples are not true for most. I think you and others take the far left and assume all people left of center believe that way. It isn't the case. I don't like DJT. I think he is a nasty human being and easily swayed by which member of his inner circle he just spoke with or which TV show he just watched. I am not against all of his agenda.
BTW ... He in no way is responsible for the shooting last week. That shooter spent his childhood under the Bush admin

I agree with a lot of this. But I'm reading now he's for some type of restrictions on bump stocks and even certain types of weapons along with raising age limits on their ownership.

Not really against any of that either, but a lot of these kids and the folks pushing them want all guns banned, and that's where this gets too political and will backfire on them because Americans generally do not favor gun bans. Restrictions? Yes. A ban? Nope.

Anyway Trump's about to upset the apple cart because apparently he's not against some more restrictions, in addition to enhanced security along with armed personnel in the schools. Good ideas I think.

 

[atlkvb]

So you read it more than once and still think railing about him blaming Trump for the shooting is legit?

Yes. He stated as much in the first line of his post.

 

[Boomboom521]

Of course it does. Research Calvinism vs. Arminianism, and give me a summary of your findings.

PS> This is why Christianity can't have nice things.

I thought that was essentially no free will versus free will....Calvinism asserting that we are too full of sin to choose and Arminianism asserting our choice is free....maybe that’s reversed?

Anyway.....I’m not a big design already in place guy.

 

[Boomboom521]

Yes. He stated as much in the first line of his post.

Really?

 

[Mntneer]

Ah, but that could be said for many things. My point is that parenting is being there, even if it’s poor influence, at least it indicates a strong presence from the parents. That’s good, and you can’t blame the kids for honoring their parents by listening. Schools hopefully will teach critical thinking, challenge the kids by presenting multiple perspectives, and the kids will think for themselves as they mature.

I just view some of it the same way I view the "baseball Dad" The parents that use their kids to further their own goals and desires.

I had a long talk with my sons the other night about this issue. About school safety, shootings, guns, etc. I allowed them to form their own opinion and challenged them on them, and looked for them to challenge me.

 

[Boomboom521]

I just view some of it the same way I view the "baseball Dad" The parents that use their kids to further their own goals and desires.

I had a long talk with my sons the other night about this issue. About school safety, shootings, guns, etc. I allowed them to form their own opinion and challenged them on them, and looked for them to challenge me.

Sounds like you’re a good parent. Something I’m hoping to be, it’s not easy.

 

[atlkvb]

Anyway.....I’m not a big design already in place guy.

While I can certainly understand why this "free will" equation is and can be confusing, the "design" aspect of it is not.

It's easy to prove by simply examining what in the cosmos is NOT designed?

The precision of Earth's rotation on it's axis around the Sun is mathematically caluculable...as is the entire formation of stars and even the design of atoms that make up the most basic building block known to man... a single cell!

Matter of fact, there is more design inside the nucleus of a single atom (which billions make up one tiny cell) than in all of the known Universe! Now when you think about that much precision design...it's easy to understand we are not here by accident.

Then it gets complicated understanding why we are here...but it's not hard to see we're indeed unique with speficic designs for a purpose. We all have purpose and we all are designed for it ...but we all also have free will to accept it. Hope that helps?

 

[Boomboom521]

While I can certainly understand why this "free will" equation is and can be confusing, the "design" aspect of it is not.

It's easy to prove by simply examining what in the cosmos is NOT designed?

The precision of Earth's rotation on it's axis around the Sun is mathematically caluculable...as is the entire formation of stars and even the design of atoms that make up the most basic building block known to man... a single cell!

Matter of fact, there is more design inside the nucleus of a single atom (which billions make up one tiny cell) than in all of the known Universe! Now when you think about that much precision design...it's easy to understand we are not here by accident.

Then it gets complicated understanding why we are here...but it's not hard to see we're indeed unique with speficic designs for a purpose. We all have purpose and we all are designed for it ...but we all also have free will to accept it. Hope that helps?

I meant design more along the lines of everything happens as a part of a predetermined destiny.....maybe your “choice to accept it” is describing free will, but it’s not what I mean by free will.

 

[atlkvb]

Really?

Yes really

Lol, evidently Trump is their idea of how civilization could/should function.

What does that mean if he's not responsible for what's happening now because we voted for him?

 

[bornaneer]

Many of these kids at these rallies and vigils DO blame Trump.....I don't remember seeing ANY kids or parents holding anti President Obama signs at rallies and vigils post December 14, 2012. Do any of my friends on this board remember seeing any? I also must have missed the protests outside the White House post December 14, 2012. Suddenly a President that has been in office for just over a year is the reason this crap happens.

 

[atlkvb]

I meant design more along the lines of everything happens as a part of a predetermined destiny.....maybe your “choice to accept it” is describing free will, but it’s not what I mean by free will.

I get it.

Our destinations are not "pre determined" but our choices are free along the way. It's kind of like an all-you-can-eat buffett. No one says you have to select any particular option on the menu or every one, but the menu is there for your free choice to eat as much or as little of whatever you want.

Our lives are set up in such a way to take advantage of our menu options, but no two plates will ever be the same in the exact same amounts with the exact same proportions even though we're all eating from the same table! Some will eat more, some less...more of some things, or none of others. It's a crude example, but it works to understand free will vs "pre determinism".

 

[atlkvb]

Many of these kids at these rallies and vigils DO blame Trump.....I don't remember seeing ANY kids or parents holding anti President Obama signs at rallies and vigils post December 14, 2012. Do any of my friends on this board remember seeing any? I also must have missed the protests outside the White House post December 14, 2012. Suddenly a President that has been in office for just over a year is the reason this crap happens.

If someone there suggested we ought to investigate gun running to illegal Mexican drug cartels I don't think they would have been allowed to speak.

 

[Boomboom521]

Yes really



What does that mean if he's not responsible for what's happening now because we voted for him?

Well let’s see.....the thread is about conspiracy theories being thrown out about the youth in Fla organizing. Trump loves him some conspiracy theories now doesn’t he. Brushy made a post about how divisions couldn’t be bridged because civilization doesn’t function properly anymore “post-Christian” (whatever that means). OM and Keyser were responding to that post.

Maybe you get it now?

 

[atlkvb]

Well let’s see.....the thread is about conspiracy theories being thrown out about the youth in Fla organizing. Trump loves him some conspiracy theories now doesn’t he. Brushy made a post about how divisions couldn’t be bridged because civilization doesn’t function properly anymore “post-Christian” (whatever that means). OM and Keyser were responding to that post.

Maybe you get it now?

As I listen to those protestors and the people speaking for them or interpreting what they hear those kids saying, it's all about Trump and his inability to solve this problem of our kids (and citizens) being slaughtered by all the guns available out there because he (Trump) won't stand up to the NRA or the "gun lobby". That's what I'm hearing and responding to using Keyser's post as a starting point.

 

[WVUCOOPER]

Many of these kids at these rallies and vigils DO blame Trump.....I don't remember seeing ANY kids or parents holding anti President Obama signs at rallies and vigils post December 14, 2012. Do any of my friends on this board remember seeing any? I also must have missed the protests outside the White House post December 14, 2012. Suddenly a President that has been in office for just over a year is the reason this crap happens.

Seems to be a winning strategy for them. Populist Don going right along with them.

 

[atlkvb]

I just view some of it the same way I view the "baseball Dad" The parents that use their kids to further their own goals and desires.

I had a long talk with my sons the other night about this issue. About school safety, shootings, guns, etc. I allowed them to form their own opinion and challenged them on them, and looked for them to challenge me.

I think this is excellent.

Kids really do respond better when they are encouraged to think for themselves, and investigate the consequences of their decisions. It's how I've tried to raise my bunch to accept their responsibility for their own choices which they can never escape. There will always be consequences to whatever they choose, so I've always advised them to use wisely their power of choice and the free will they have in making those choices.

Consider all of the options, know what the choices involve and be ready to accept the consequences of poor or wrong decisions along with benefits of the better or good ones. No one else is to blame for what they choose good or bad.

The key is understanding the differences and what makes them so.

 

[bamaEER]

Seems to be a winning strategy for them. Populist Don going right along with them.

Interesting to see how the NRA and their kin respond to this. Biff will certainly ride the fence for a while.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

While I can certainly understand why this "free will" equation is and can be confusing, the "design" aspect of it is not.

It's easy to prove by simply examining what in the cosmos is NOT designed?

The precision of Earth's rotation on it's axis around the Sun is mathematically caluculable...as is the entire formation of stars and even the design of atoms that make up the most basic building block known to man... a single cell!

Matter of fact, there is more design inside the nucleus of a single atom (which billions make up one tiny cell) than in all of the known Universe! Now when you think about that much precision design...it's easy to understand we are not here by accident.

Then it gets complicated understanding why we are here...but it's not hard to see we're indeed unique with speficic designs for a purpose. We all have purpose and we all are designed for it ...but we all also have free will to accept it. Hope that helps?

If you weren't such a nazi, I'd actually like to sit down and discuss this topic with you some day!

 

[atlkvb]

Interesting to see how the NRA and their kin respond to this. Biff will certainly ride the fence for a while.

The NRA is all about protecting our Second ammendment rights, not slaughtering innocent kids in schools. If there was any evidence that gun bans work, where is the evidence of that where they are banned?

 

[bornaneer]

The fine people of Broward County need to be asking their sheriff,mayor and vice-mayor how they let this nut get away with what he did.

 

[atlkvb]

If you weren't such a nazi, I'd actually like to sit down and discuss this topic with you some day!

Trust me I'm not a Nazi! They hated my kind. Remember Jessie Owens?

Brother Man had some wheels! Pissed Hitler off!!!!!! (country too!)

 

[Keyser76]

If someone there suggested we ought to investigate gun running to illegal Mexican drug cartels I don't think they would have been allowed to speak.

They are speaking out because they watched 17 classmates and teachers get slaughtered and now they are probably pissed off at Trump supporters for denigrating them online and on TV like they do everyone they don't agree with, they probably equate Trump with mocking the disabled and calling McCain a loser, a lot of America was appalled at that shit. As for the gun running to Mexican cartels, why aren't you guys out there protesting about it? Lazy or just convinced it was bullshit?

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

The NRA is all about protecting our Second ammendment rights, not slaughtering innocent kids in schools. If there was any evidence that gun bans work, where is the evidence of that where they are banned?

When I hear some asshat from the NRA call the AR-15 a varmint rifle, it surely makes me question their agenda.

 

[atlkvb]

They are speaking out because they watched 17 classmates and teachers get slaughtered and now they are probably pissed off at Trump supporters for denigrating them online and on TV like they do everyone they don't agree with, they probably equate Trump with mocking the disabled and calling McCain a loser, a lot of America was appalled at that shit. As for the gun running to Mexican cartels, why aren't you guys out there protesting about it? Lazy or just convinced it was bullshit?

We'd be called "racists" because the illegal guns were being run to Mexicans by a couple of Black dudes. Obama and Holder. So we leave it alone.

 

[atlkvb]

When I hear some asshat from the NRA call the AR-15 a varmint rifle, it surely makes me question their agenda.

The NRA supports restrictions on ownership of those types of weapons. Restrictions, not bans.

 

[bornaneer]

They are speaking out because they watched 17 classmates and teachers get slaughtered and now they are probably pissed off at Trump supporters for denigrating them online and on TV like they do everyone they don't agree with, they probably equate Trump with mocking the disabled and calling McCain a loser, a lot of America was appalled at that shit. As for the gun running to Mexican cartels, why aren't you guys out there protesting about it? Lazy or just convinced it was bullshit?

They should speak out.....I just wonder why they didn't against their Mayor,Vice-Mayor and Sheriff. Those fine folks running Broward County knew all about the deranged nut that was running amok. What did they do........Not a thing.

 

[Keyser76]

The NRA supports restrictions on ownership of those types of weapons. Restrictions, not bans.

The NRA is a lobbying firm for the firearms industry, and Politicians being paid millions by that same lobby look like buffoons trying to imply that these kids must be paid to act that way when it is them on the payrolls. And Obama and Holder are gone, I guess you missed your chance, whatever you imagine happened the last 8 years, Hillary lost, get over it, Trump won, deal with it.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

Trust me I'm not a Nazi! They hated my kind. Remember Jessie Owens?

Brother Man had some wheels! Pissed Hitler off!!!!!! (country too!)

View embedded media

Sure I remember him via old film clips. I was born in 62!!! My best friend is an evangelical Christian and we talk religion all the time even at work. I actually read the Old Testament when I was 18-19-20. I view it as a collection of stories attempting to explain what couldn't be otherwise explained. I would have a hard time being Jewish..... Now that I am almost as old as you, I should read it again.

 

[Boomboom521]

As I listen to those protestors and the people speaking for them or interpreting what they hear those kids saying, it's all about Trump and his inability to solve this problem of our kids (and citizens) being slaughtered by all the guns available out there because he (Trump) won't stand up to the NRA or the "gun lobby". That's what I'm hearing and responding to using Keyser's post as a starting point.

Keep the discussions with the voices in your head. Try to address the posts you respond to for what they actually say.....

 

[Boomboom521]

Seems to be a winning strategy for them. Populist Don going right along with them.

Acting like a politician rather than the rock star, empire builder, self sacrificing, patriot everyone said he was it seems.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

The NRA supports restrictions on ownership of those types of weapons. Restrictions, not bans.

But he called it a varmint rifle.....in my day a varmint rifle was a 22 or 30-06. The AR-15 and similar is not a varmint rifle.

 

[atlkvb]

Keep the discussions with the voices in your head. Try to address the posts you respond to for what they actually say.....

OK boss.

 

[Boomboom521]

They should speak out.....I just wonder why they didn't against their Mayor,Vice-Mayor and Sheriff. Those fine folks running Broward County knew all about the deranged nut that was running amok. What did they do........Not a thing.

Not knocking your assertion, but what exactly did you want them to do?

 

[atlkvb]

But he called it a varmint rifle.....in my day a varmint rifle was a 22 or 30-06. The AR-15 and similar is not a varmint rifle.

I don't know why anyone would want one, or even need one. But I never understood the craze for Hummers when they came out either. Everyone wanted a "Hummer" why? It's a damn military assault type vehicle!

I favor restrictions on them. Licensed, certified, investigated, and qualified owners...just like you can't just set up shop and start pulling people's teeth without some sort of certification. Same with these.

Banning them? Nope.

 

[TarHeelEer]

I thought that was essentially no free will versus free will....Calvinism asserting that we are too full of sin to choose and Arminianism asserting our choice is free....maybe that’s reversed?

Anyway.....I’m not a big design already in place guy.

Both theories debate how much is God's will for everything taking place, even our choices, vs. God let everything go and it's all up to us. Bible doesn't explicitly answer that, and is a waste of breath. But of course it's somewhere in between, by just reading the story of Jonah, we know that.

 

[Boomboom521]

Both theories debate how much is God's will for everything taking place, even our choices, vs. God let everything go and it's all up to us. Bible doesn't explicitly answer that, and is a waste of breath. But of course it's somewhere in between, by just reading the story of Jonah, we know that.

I believe opportunities are placed for individual choice.....paths cross and things align.....but the choice is always up to the individual.

 

[atlkvb]

Both theories debate how much is God's will for everything taking place, even our choices, vs. God let everything go and it's all up to us. Bible doesn't explicitly answer that, and is a waste of breath. But of course it's somewhere in between, by just reading the story of Jonah, we know that.

Almighty God's authority over human affairs allows our choices, but all according to his will. He doesn't force us to accept his will for our lives, but ultimately his will is done regardless if we accept it or not. It either includes us, or it doesn't...that's our choice.

 

[atlkvb]

I believe opportunities are placed for individual choice.....paths cross and things align.....but the choice is always up to the individual.

True dat. No one is "forced" into anything against their free will except slavery or Totalitarianism.