WV teacher strke

[WVUtotheBig12]

Do you think the same teacher should be paid the same in rural WV as an affluent suburb of Pittsburgh? Like you said not a level playing field. You cannot even compare a teacher salary in Morgantown to a rural area of WV, cost of living difference is very wide within our own state, let alone the bordering ones.

I never stated the salaries should be identical. If you were actually following the discussion, you would have seen that I used that example to explain how a merit-based evaluation system would be flawed. The same teacher, working during different time periods in two distinctly different areas of the country, could have vastly different results in their students’ academic achievement due to factors completely out of their control.

 

[The Elf]

61 days is a big number still

I am not sure what is more sad....that someone can’t figure out that 61 days, divided by a 5 day work week equals 12 weeks...equals 3 months. 12 months minus 3 months equals 9 months. OR
That this is what someone would use as their main point of argument...period.

 

[pacs life]

Instead of screaming and striking, why dont the teachers formulate a plan that shows how the 5 percent raise and Insurance fix will fix our schools, scores and system.

What is their action plan to improve?

If teachers can teach in VA or MD for 20K more, how is 5 percent or 2K going to change that? So making 18K less is okay, but not 20K less?

 

[Lydeck]

I feel bad for the poors in this thread. If my job didn't pay me what I thought my value to be, then I'd find another job.

Lol at the most liberal profession whining about the healthcare mess that they wanted.

Lol at the cuckservatives wanting to skimp on paying the people educating their children.

 

[squigsWV]

Keeping my answer as brief as possible just highlighting the two of the bigger issues IMO:

We have thousands of teaching vacancies, over 7,000 IIRC, thanks in large part due to poor benefits and pay. If we could fill those, it could decrease average class size thereby giving students more individual attention during lessons. The schools themselves are also poorly funded, many of which can't afford newer textbooks for each and every student.

How many counties have passed education levies over the years vs how many keep voting them down? I know here in Mon County I cannot remember the last one that did not pass, let alone by a large margin. A lot of the issue starts there in my opinion.

 

[popmurtha]

It lists several high performing charter schools. Meanwhile we do not have a single gold medal school in our state.

Just like there are hundreds of high performing public schools. The point of the article was to show that charters aren't inherently better than public schools. They're not some education panacea that those bougie douches in Washington make them out to be.

They can be good, just as public schools can be good, in the right circumstances. The only problem with charters is that when you remove a child from public school and place them in charters, it hurts public schools as a whole by also losing funding for that student, which goes to x number of things public schools use to make the educational experience better.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Explain to me then how they have a DIRECT impact on the laws where live please. I’m not talking about how they vote in their elected representatives, who promise to implement their wishes either.

How do I argue against the way our government works? You made a statement, inaccurate as it was, and I countered it with how the system works. To answer your post, by voting is how they influence the laws written; meeting with their elected representatives, being active and engaged in the legislative process at the municipal, state, and national levels. Lobbying on their beliefs.

I don’t know how to explain it any different. That’s how it works. I could be an ass an post the old video of how a bill becomes a law, would that help?

 

[DavidsonEer]

lol bullshit. It's absolutely a GOP/Dem issue. High insurance costs are what we as a society deemed acceptable because god forbid we allow a Medicare buy-in for people of all ages. Can't do that, that would be socialism! Despite the fact our current system is the most expensive in the world (by far - it's not even close) and we don't even have the best health outcomes.

Don’t be upset with me - I’m in favor of single payer healthcare.

Obama and the democrats never even considered it during the health care debates of 2009. Instead, they dug up an old proposal that was written by the heritage foundation in the 90s and that’s what we have.

But you are making a lot of great points in this thread.

 

[squigsWV]

I never stated the salaries should be identical. If you were actually following the discussion, you would have seen that I used that example to explain how a merit-based evaluation system would be flawed. The same teacher, working during different time periods in two distinctly different areas of the country, could have vastly different results in their students’ academic achievement due to factors completely out of their control.

So essentially you are saying it's not the teachers fault, kids in WV are just not as sharp as surrounding states? C'mon man, that is taking the woe is lil ol WV attitude. There is no reason anyone in this state shouldn't be able to succeed at whatever they put their heart and mind too.

 

[WVDominick]

I went to Morgantown High. The last week of school my senior year, one of the guidance counselors called me in and asked what I was going to do after high school. When I told her I was going to college she crapped her pants. Found out from my sister teacher that she was supposed to have spoken to me earlier in order to guide me into high school classes that would better prepare me. She was filling out the forms to cover her ass days before I was walking out the door. Just another example of a failed school system.

Went to MHS too. Was told by guidance counselor there were no engineering type degrees at WVU which is what I wanted to do. No, I'm not joking.

Better was the history teacher my senior year who was untouchable due to tenure. He gave out word search papers every single day. He gave no shits and nobody could do a thing about it.

 

[popmurtha]

Don’t be upset with me - I’m in favor of single payer healthcare.

Obama and the democrats never even considered it during the health care debates of 2009. Instead, they dug up an old proposal that was written by the heritage foundation in the 90s and that’s what we have.

But you are making a lot of great points in this thread.

Yeah I agree 100%. I'm not a fan of the Dem establishment. I know Obama tried going to public option for maybe 5 minutes, but stopped after he couldn't get Joe Lieberman to back the proposal since they needed 60 votes to pass. Coincidentally I'm not sure I know one politician who's hated by both parties as much as Joe Lieberman.

 

[TIREPUNK]

Teachers contracts are generally for 185 days per year less 12 days for sick/personal leave. Assuming they take 1/2 of these you get 179 days. Not sure where you got the 200.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

So essentially you are saying it's not the teachers fault, kids in WV are just not as sharp as surrounding states? C'mon man, that is taking the woe is lil ol WV attitude. There is no reason anyone in this state shouldn't be able to succeed at whatever they put their heart and mind too.

No no no! Those of us born and raised in WV who’ve succeeded in life are statistical anamolies.

 

[WVUtotheBig12]

I am not sure what is more sad....that someone can’t figure out that 61 days, divided by a 5 day work week equals 12 weeks...equals 3 months. 12 months minus 3 months equals 9 months. OR
That this is what someone would use as their main point of argument...period.

There is a disconnect here. I’m talking about workdays only. Teachers do not get 3 months (i.e. 90 days) more time off from work than those in non-teaching industries.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

I addressed merit-based pay in my previous post, if we’re talking about quantifiable metrics. Charter schools can be excellent for the students that attend those schools. However, if you pour a ton of money into those schools at the expense of public school districts, what happens to the students who aren’t selected through the lottery system to attend these charter schools that most of them utilize?

Teachers contracts are generally for 185 days per year less 12 days for sick/personal leave. Assuming they take 1/2 of these you get 179 days. Not sure where you got the 200.[/QUOTE]
I think the 185 number is days actually teaching. They generally have additional days separate from actual school days.

 

[drumeer]

How does their pay relate to the cost of living in WV?

 

[WVUtotheBig12]

I addressed merit-based pay in my previous post, if we’re talking about quantifiable metrics. Charter schools can be excellent for the students that attend those schools. However, if you pour a ton of money into those schools at the expense of public school districts, what happens to the students who aren’t selected through the lottery system to attend these charter schools that most of them utilize?

Teachers contracts are generally for 185 days per year less 12 days for sick/personal leave. Assuming they take 1/2 of these you get 179 days. Not sure where you got the 200.[/QUOTE]

Go look at any job posting for an open teaching position in WV, as I just did. The term of work that a teacher is hired under in this state is 200 days.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

There is a disconnect here. I’m talking about workdays only. Teachers do not get 3 months (i.e. 90 days) more time off from work than those in non-teaching industries.

Ok, we get it. It’s not 3 months. Call it two months. This isn’t even a relevant point considering the litany of other relevant discussion items on the table (well, should be on the table in Charleston).

 

[wvubutch]

I totally agree. School districts located in counties bordering neighboring states face the constant issue of losing quality educators to these states. Most of the time, these educators don’t want to leave their current positions, but can’t turn down the significant pay increases. A large of the aspiring teachers WVU produces would like to stay in-state, but feel they need to leave WV to earn a livable wage.

48th in nation we are near bottom of everything in nation, Pay the people damn crooked politicians is what’s wrong with wv

 

[wvu2007]

To be honest, I cringed when I saw a group of overweight middle aged women singing "We're Not Gonna Take It" by Twisted Sister at the capitol.

 

[Eerfool]

People don’t want to see quality educators leave the state for more lucrative opportunities, but don’t want to pay them what they’re worth and what they deserve. The complaining about the minor inconvenience of finding temporary childcare while the strike continues is ridiculous. Teachers are fighting for what they deserve.

The funding for the raises isn’t even going to come from from WV citizens’ pockets. They’d really be unhappy if they lived within certain school districts in PA where every time it’s determined more funding for teachers’ salaries is needed (i.e. raises), property taxes are raised without a vote from citizens. There are no voting on levies.

Then leave the state, it’s that simple. If I walked off my job I would be fired.

 

[Eerfool]

I totally agree. School districts located in counties bordering neighboring states face the constant issue of losing quality educators to these states. Most of the time, these educators don’t want to leave their current positions, but can’t turn down the significant pay increases. A large of the aspiring teachers WVU produces would like to stay in-state, but feel they need to leave WV to earn a livable wage.

Then go.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

To be honest, I cringed when I saw a group of overweight middle aged women singing "We're Not Gonna Take It" by Twisted Sister at the capitol.

Pass me a bottle of jergins and a tube sock. I got some pubescent issues to resolve with the quickness after reading that. Just went from 6 to midnight if you catch my drift.

How many you think are DTF? 16 hr plane ride home and I could do some damage.? Wife might get pissed, initially anyway. Think she’d understand in the long run.

 

[Keenan Cummings]

To be honest, I cringed when I saw a group of overweight middle aged women singing "We're Not Gonna Take It" by Twisted Sister at the capitol.

Not everybody looks like a Grecian god and can dunk a basketball from the free throw line like most of the populus here.

 

[WVU enginEER]

I went to UHS and had the same situation basically with a certain "well known" guidance counselor. Was told I would never amount to shit, don't waste my time going to college because the best I could hope for was to shovel coal like my father, grandfather and so on. That is were the system is broken, as you said. I ended up doing just fine even without his assistance. Now on the other side their were some VERY good teachers in school that I owe a lot to, however for every good one there were about 2-3 subpar ones as well.

Same here, I had very few really good teachers, but it all turned out well for me:

Junior High
Ms. Goodwin - Math
Mrs. Sellaro - Science
Mr. Davis - Civics
Mrs. Crosby - English, Journalism & WV History

High School
Mr. Roberts - Band
Mr. Hill - Statistics & Computer Science

All the rest were unremarkable and some were horrible nut jobs with tenure that they could not get rid of.

 

[DavidsonEer]

Then leave the state, it’s that simple. If I walked off my job I would be fired.

I’m sorry that you don’t have the collective power in your workplace that teachers do but I’m not sure why that fact makes you resentful of them for using theirs to advocate for themselves and for what they feel would be better for WV schools.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Not everybody looks like a Grecian god and can dunk a basketball from the free throw line like most of the populus here.

Humble brag?

Is your beard still a powerfully flowing and scented with musky masculinity?

 

[Eerfool]

Lol, So I guess you think molding the minds of and inspiring tomorrow’s leaders isn’t important. You’re making yourself feel like your current occupation is far more vital than it actually is. I hope this helped you feel better about yourself. Stay out of situations for which you have limited knowledge.

You seem to not like others expressing their opinions.

 

[squigsWV]

I have no dog in this fight to be honest. No kids, no nieces or nephews etc. I have voted in favor of EVERY single school bond that has come up in the past 20 years. I am in favor of giving them the 5% raise that the House passed. With that said however, if I was governor I would look all the teachers in the eye and say you got the raise, you got the PEIA task force and I will NOT sign any legislation that lowers qualifications during the remainder of my term. I will invest in you, but 3 years from now I better see a return on my investment. That is how it should work and that is how it normally works in business in general.

 

[Peaky BlindEER]

There's a very easy fix to this mess. A fix that could fix all of our messes. Paying teachers more, fixing our God forsaken roads, and help fight the opioid /heroin epidemic. Legalize marijuana and tax it. Why they won't do it is very baffling. Only logical assumption is they are bought by Big Pharma. If they won't legalize it themselves, at the very least put it on a ballot next election and let the people vote on it. Then again, I think people should vote on more things. I think the politicians' jobs are just to write up the laws and then let us common folk vote on it.

 

[bornaneer]

• Why don't our children have school books?
  
• Many of our best teachers have left the state and now the under performing ones are demanding higher raises and benefits than they ever got in the past?
• Why do we expect instant improvement in our states quality of life metrics when nothing was done for the previous 80 years?
  
• Why are certain people so narrow minded when it comes to trying new ideas like charter schools and vouchers?

BTW...I have voted for EVERY school levy that has ever been brought up for a vote. If your local schools need funds....DO something about it. I also support most teachers for the vocation they have chosen.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

what they feel would be better for WV schools

I feel like if I made 5% more immediately and had a equitable solution to rising healthcare costs that it would be good for my businesses needs as well.

Let me get someone on the phone, I don’t care, anybody, and get me someone while I’m waiting!

 

[WVU enginEER]

Instead of screaming and striking, why dont the teachers formulate a plan that shows how the 5 percent raise and Insurance fix will fix our schools, scores and system.

What is their action plan to improve?

If teachers can teach in VA or MD for 20K more, how is 5 percent or 2K going to change that? So making 18K less is okay, but not 20K less?

I pass 6 teacher strike locations on the way to work each day. On Friday, one didn't have anyone show up to strike. Three had 10% of the crowd that was there on other days, and the other 2 had 50%. Looked to me like the strike was over and teachers were enjoying their day off.

 

[DavidsonEer]

I feel like if I made 5% more immediately and had a equitable solution to rising healthcare costs that it would be good for my businesses needs as well.

Let me get someone on the phone, I don’t care, anybody, and get me someone while I’m waiting!

Competitive pay will bring in better teachers. Do you disagree?

 

[Ft. MyEERS]

Not everybody looks like a Grecian god and can dunk a basketball from the free throw line like most of the populus here.

Did I ever tell you guys how many touchdowns I scored my senior season?

 

[eersfan94]

Not my profession of choice. All I can do is state the facts that are out there for us to view.

No need to ask why I suppose. You guys complain about how east teaching is. Go out and do it then.

 

[squigsWV]

Same here, I had very few really good teachers, but it all turned out well for me:

Junior High
Ms. Goodwin - Math
Mrs. Sellaro - Science
Mr. Davis - Civics
Mrs. Crosby - English, Journalism & WV History

High School
Mr. Roberts - Band
Mr. Hill - Statistics & Computer Science

All the rest were unremarkable and some were horrible nut jobs with tenure that they could not get rid of.

My GF went to MHS and said good things about Mr. Roberts and Mr. Hill as well. For me it was Mrs. Kirwlavich who I probably wouldn't have graduted if not for her. I learned more in one year from her than my other 3 years in High School combined. She made sure that we learned what she taught and when we walked out of her classroom we understood what we just discussed. Mr. Berry and Mrs. Hammersmith are two other teachers that I enjoyed going to their classrooms. They made learning fun and enjoyable, which to me is the key to success. Standing at a projector reading to the class doesn't teach. Engaging your students and challenging them to think is teaching.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Competitive pay will bring in better teachers. Do you disagree?

Yes, I disagree. I believe that is shortsighted and does absolutely nothing to address subpar performance, ability to measure success and guage ROI. I also don’t believe another $2350 per annum is going to entice anyone from out of state to move into state.

If the desire is to fix the issue of the state’s school system, you might as well light that money on fire for all the good it will benefit the students.

 

[WVDominick]

I’m sorry that you don’t have the collective power in your workplace that teachers do but I’m not sure why that fact makes you resentful of them for using theirs to advocate for themselves and for what they feel would be better for WV schools.

They're harming the parents and kids whether you are willing to admit that or not. They're OK with forcing parents and kids into a very negative situation to further their goal. Even if I agree with that goal a strike is not the answer.

 

[WVU enginEER]

Competitive pay will bring in better teachers. Do you disagree?

Agree, but what good does that do if we can't shit can the the 50% who do a poor job?