WV teacher strke

[WVUtotheBig12]

I’m glad to see that was the main takeaway from my response. I’m finished with this thread. Good luck to you.

You stated I looked foolish because I wouldn’t agree that teachers only work 9 months/year. I refuted your point. I didn’t address anything else because it’s none of my business or concern what the compensation structure of other professions are, just like everyone isn’t an expert on what the salary scale for teachers in this state should be and how they should go about fighting for what they feel they deserve. I didn’t resort to name-calling because I’ve always thought you were a quality poster here, but I’m glad you felt the need to do so.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Why do I need to factor in holidays? That would just help my cause. I’m telling you that teachers in WV work 200 days out of the year including the holidays that school isn’t in session and someone employed year-round works at most 261 days if they work 5 days/week. If these individuals do not work 8 major holidays, they’d work 253 days out of the year, while teachers still work 200 days.

Industry doesn’t get those holidays, knucklehead. Some do, like my industry, but a lot don’t. We damn sure aren’t getting 1-2 weeks at Christmas. We aren’t getting the week of Thanksgiving, and we aren’t getting Easter break. Stop it, already. This isn’t even a debatable discussion and certainly not the one I’d like your specific focus on.

If you’d refer to my first post ~210 (depending on your ignore list) in this thread, I’d love to be educated on your points to those questions. I’m honestly interested.

 

[WVUtotheBig12]

You can’t fairly implement merit-based pay either because factors that are out of an educator’s control vary considerably from state to state.

 

[popmurtha]

Bruh, u realize they make more alone then the average income for a household in this state?

The pay isn't what made them strike. Or at least it wasn't the main reason. PEIA has been grossly mismanaged by the legislature and they're striking for better benefits.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

just like everyone isn’t an expert on what the salary scale for teachers in this state should be and how they should go about fighting for what they feel they deserve.

This is where you’re incorrect. Here on the BlueLot we are experts of everything from acceptable hotness of women to adequate route running/throwing progressions to the proper way to execute a dunk. New to the board?

In all seriousness, (myself not included) as tax payers in this state and consumers of the service in which is provided by said tax dollars, they have every right to question the manner in which their dollars are spent. It’s a foundational principle of our representative democracy. Guessing you don’t teach civics?

 

[popmurtha]

I have high cost Obamacare.

There is no such thing as "high cost Obamacare". You have high cost private insurance. That's where you're buying your insurance from.

 

[popmurtha]

I agree, pay them what they are worth. What are our national rankings for education?

They should be paid on that level.

Bruh we don't have enough money to give newer textbooks to every student when needed. How do you expect kids to succeed in that type of environment?

 

[WVUtotheBig12]

Industry doesn’t get those holidays, knucklehead. Some do, like my industry, but a lot don’t. We damn sure aren’t getting 1-2 weeks at Christmas. We aren’t getting the week of Thanksgiving, and we aren’t getting Easter break. Stop it, already. This isn’t even a debatable discussion and certainly not the one I’d like your specific focus on.

If you’d refer to my first post ~210 (depending on your ignore list) in this thread, I’d love to be educated on your points to those questions. I’m honestly interested.

I stated that even if a person doesn’t receive holidays off from work, the most they are going to work is 261 days. That’s only 61 days more than a teacher, which isn’t 3 months more.

I addressed merit-based pay in my previous post, if we’re talking about quantifiable metrics. Charter schools can be excellent for the students that attend those schools. However, if you pour a ton of money into those schools at the expense of public school districts, what happens to the students who aren’t selected through the lottery system to attend these charter schools that most of them utilize?

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

There is no such thing as "high cost Obamacare". You have high cost private insurance. That's where you're buying your insurance from.

Perhaps he meant the top tier plan within the ACA? Gold, platinum, diamond, bling bling plan? Not real sure, I just remember there being tiers.

 

[popmurtha]

I think we all should find ways to make money that are not dependent on a government or some other large entity . This includes me too.

"Public education has been good for my generation, but not this one coming up. F*ck 'em."

 

[mdeer1]

I stated that even if a person doesn’t receive holidays off from work, the most they are going to work is 261 days. That’s only 61 days more than a teacher, which isn’t 3 months more.

I addressed merit-based pay in my previous post, if we’re talking about quantifiable metrics. Charter schools can be excellent for the students that attend those schools. However, if you pour a ton of money into those schools at the expense of public school districts, what happens to the students who aren’t selected through the lottery system to attend these charter schools that most of them utilize?

61 days is a big number still

 

[pacs life]

Bruh we don't have enough money to give newer textbooks to every student when needed. How do you expect kids to succeed in that type of environment?

Why arent new textbooks one of the teachers demands?

You would think the teachers, knowing the state cant even afford new textbooks, would not go on strike for their own salaries before the students could be given needed learning materials.

 

[popmurtha]

Perhaps he meant the top tier plan within the ACA? Gold, platinum, diamond, bling bling plan? Not real sure, I just remember there being tiers.

There are tiers, which does affect what your out-of-pocket expenses would be, depending on what level of care x employees need. But nevertheless it's not like he's buying government insurance. It's all from private companies.

The design of the ACA was supposed to make insurance co's compete with one another in one marketplace (the website). O'care mandated certain conditions were covered and that preexisting conditions weren't ground for denying care or insurance.

 

[WVU enginEER]

Go be a teacher. Perhaps you can raise the bar.

I wanted to teach math, but they told me that as an engineer that knowing algebra, trigonometry, calculus and advanced engineering mathematics, along with rel life examples of the practical application and use of these, is not good enough.

It just doesn't add up.

 

[Keenan Cummings]

Why arent new textbooks one of the teachers demands?

You would think the teachers, knowing the state cant even afford new textbooks, would not go on strike for their own salaries before the students could be given needed learning materials.

Shew.

 

[pacs life]

Shew.

Shew indeed.

 

[popmurtha]

Why arent new textbooks one of the teachers demands?

You would think the teachers, knowing the state cant even afford new textbooks, would not go on strike for their own salaries before the students could be given needed learning materials.

If we don't have enough quality teachers to teach our students it kind of makes the textbook argument moot, no? That's the reality WVians are facing.

Even recently, Washington County, MD has been placing advertisements in NC WV newspapers attempting to lure more teachers away from the state because of their good salaries. The state, and by extension the state's next generation, can't afford to lose more educators.

 

[tjebarr]

The democrats had control of the legislature for 80 years and never properly addressed the PEIA issue. Just kept kicking the can down the road.

I was a 40 year registered democrat until May of 2016, when I resigned from the party. I even campaigned for democrat legislators and governors during those 40 years. Union member too at one point.

Then I watched the democrats pass a bill making the schools provide free breakfast and lunch for all school children, even the kids of wealthy parents in my community who can afford to pay for it themselves. But then I asked myself, what have I gotten from the democrats in 40 years? Nothing! So I switched to independent and voted for Trump.

So don't go on about how this problem suddenly appeared under a legislature now controlled by the republicans. Democrats had plenty of opportunity to fix the issue with PEIA. So when the teachers want to know why they can't get the pay raise they want, it's because the democrat legislature stole their pay raise to provide free breakfast and lunch to all the kids. It's called wealth redistribution. The irony is that even rich people got some of their pay raise.

All kids do not get free breakfast and lunch in the schools in Jefferson or Berkeley County. You are spreading nonsense . Some very low income schools like North Jefferson & Ranson yes, but not all schools. I can tell you for a fact that a lot of kids only get to eat when they go to school. Your tax dollars are wasted much worse things. For instance we pay 300,000 a year for calligraphers in the white house

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

I stated that even if a person doesn’t receive holidays off from work, the most they are going to work is 261 days. That’s only 61 days more than a teacher, which isn’t 3 months more.

I addressed merit-based pay in my previous post, if we’re talking about quantifiable metrics. Charter schools can be excellent for the students that attend those schools. However, if you pour a ton of money into those schools at the expense of public school districts, what happens to the students who aren’t selected through the lottery system to attend these charter schools that most of them utilize?

I understand the counter arguments to charter schools and in a state like WV, I’m not sure it even makes sense due to population dispersement. Perhaps tax deductions for parents who choose private school or tax funded waivers for use in private schools in lieu of charter schools. My concern is not teacher’s ability to sustain their industry. My concern is quality of education for the student, and put into industry terms, an adequate ROI.

You can absolutely install quantifiable metrics for performance. If you can’t quantify performance, then what’s the point? It’s just a hole that you throw money into without any expectation of result. How would otherwise justify and guage an ROI?

 

[WVUtotheBig12]

In all seriousness, (myself not included) as tax payers in this state and consumers of the service in which is provided by said tax dollars, they have every right to question the manner in which their dollars are spent. It’s a foundational principle of our representative democracy. Guessing you don’t teach civics?

I fully understand how a portion of their tax dollars are utilized to fund public schools in WV. However, they also pay taxes to fund local law enforcement. Does that mean that they have the right to dictate exactly what the laws should be and specifically how offenders are prosecuted? After all, they have to pay taxes, correct?

 

[popmurtha]

Do they really get 3 months off ? I looked it up average salary is 46 K.

No it's more like a month & a half.

 

[pacs life]

If we don't have enough quality teachers to teach our students it kind of makes the textbook argument moot, no? That's the reality WVians are facing.

Even recently, Washington County, MD has been placing advertisements in NC WV newspapers attempting to lure more teachers away from the state because of their good salaries. The state, and by extension the state's next generation, can't afford to lose more educators.

Let them go teach in MD or VA or PA. Its free enterprise. We cant compete with those states financially.

Teachers in MD, PA and VA are making on scale compared to what other workers in those states make. Just as teachers in WV are. Its not like the average salary in WV is 90K and teachers make 40K.

 

[squigsWV]

If we don’t take into account holidays, someone who is employed 12 months out of the year works 261 days if they do not work weekends. Teachers in WV work on 200 workday contracts. Teachers do not work 3 months (~90 days) less than those working 12 months out of the year. The point I was trying to make is teachers do not get 3 full months off from work in the summer. It’s usually around 9 weeks. If they don’t get 3 full months off from school, then they don’t only work 9 months out of the year.

Ok, let me use your MATH to help get the point across...

Teacher makes 47000 a YEAR and works 200 days, as stated per you. Teacher makes 235.00 a DAY.
Non Teacher makes 47000 a YEAR and works 261 days, as stated per you. Non Teacher makes 180.07 a DAY.

So again, explain to me how a teacher works the same amount of time and makes less than any other person in a non teaching industry at the same annual salary.

You make no sense.

 

[popmurtha]

The trajectory of insurance costs going up is pretty steady going back to at least 1999. Health care costs are a big problem but they aren’t a Republican/Democrat issue.

lol bullshit. It's absolutely a GOP/Dem issue. High insurance costs are what we as a society deemed acceptable because god forbid we allow a Medicare buy-in for people of all ages. Can't do that, that would be socialism! Despite the fact our current system is the most expensive in the world (by far - it's not even close) and we don't even have the best health outcomes.

 

[popmurtha]

Let them go teach in MD or VA or PA. Its free enterprise. We cant compete with those states financially.

Teachers in MD, PA and VA are making on scale compared to what other workers in those states make. Just as teachers in WV are. Its not like the average salary in WV is 90K and teachers make 40K.

You ever wonder why business outside of resource extraction isn't moving into the state? It's because this state is so goddamn uneducated. And you want to make the problem even worse? Hell no.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

However, they also pay taxes to fund local law enforcement. Does that mean that they have the right to dictate exactly what the laws should be and specifically how offenders are prosecuted?

In fact they do have a say in that. Back to exercising the foundational principles of a representative democracy and voting their principles. Call me crazy, maybe I am, but I kind of thought that was the whole point of our system of government.

“This isn’t Russia, Danny, is it?”

 

[WVUtotheBig12]

I understand the counter arguments to charter schools and in a state like WV, I’m not sure it even makes sense due to population dispersement. Perhaps tax deductions for parents who choose private school or tax funded waivers for use in private schools in lieu of charter schools. My concern is not teacher’s ability to sustain their industry. My concern is quality of education for the student, and put into industry terms, an adequate ROI.

You can absolutely install quantifiable metrics for performance. If you can’t quantify performance, then what’s the point? It’s just a hole that you throw money into without any expectation of result. How would otherwise justify and guage an ROI?

Are you going to state that you believe that a teacher in rural WV and one in an affluent suburb outside of Pittsburgh are on a level playing field. An educator in the PA school district could be considered very effective based on the high-stakes testing scores of their students. That same teacher could move to rural WV, where the proficiency level of the students is markedly different, and struggle to meet the performance level that they previously achieved. The raw materials that teachers are expected to mold vary significantly across the school districts in our country.

 

[squigsWV]

You ever wonder why business outside of resource extraction isn't moving into the state? It's because this state is so goddamn uneducated. And you want to make the problem even worse? Hell no.

I agree with you regarding the state being uneducated as the core problem. My question is why is it uneducated? Poor teachers, lack of teacher effort due to wages?

 

[WVU enginEER]

I graduated from St. Albans High School and while I was there I believe we had three guidance counselors at the time. Between myself and my close group of friend I want to say around 15 of us went on to graduate from college that I talk to on a regular basis. You know how many of those 15 ever spoke to a guidance counselor ONCE about where they wanted to attend college, what they wanted to focus on, have they applied for scholarships, etc? None of us. The system in place currently is broken and it really sucks for the good teachers out there that need to be making about double what they currently are because of how big on an impact they make.

I went to Morgantown High. The last week of school my senior year, one of the guidance counselors called me in and asked what I was going to do after high school. When I told her I was going to college she crapped her pants. Found out from my sister teacher that she was supposed to have spoken to me earlier in order to guide me into high school classes that would better prepare me. She was filling out the forms to cover her ass days before I was walking out the door. Just another example of a failed school system.

 

[pacs life]

You ever wonder why business outside of resource extraction isn't moving into the state? It's because this state is so goddamn uneducated. And you want to make the problem even worse? Hell no.

Make it worse? What are we going to slip to 47th from 45th?

Exactly why we need charter schools and competiton in education. Merit based pay,

The reasons for our depressed economy are several and far reaching.

 

[popmurtha]

I don’t want to sound like an ass but every other private payers premium has increased dramatically since the ACA passage. PEIAs low cost was bound to implode at some point. How much of a percentage rise was it?

Yeah it's almost like private insurance's need to increase value for shareholders, which happens by raising premiums and denying care, is the issue.

 

[popmurtha]

Make it worse? What are we going to slip to 47th from 45th?

Exactly why we need charter schools and competiton in education. Merit based pay,

The reasons for our depressed economy are several and far reaching.

There is no evidence to suggest private charters are performing better than public schools.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-with-charter-schools/?utm_term=.f110ac674f06

 

[squigsWV]

Are you going to state that you believe that a teacher in rural WV and one in an affluent suburb outside of Pittsburgh are on a level playing field. An educator in the PA school district could be considered very effective based on the high-stakes testing scores of their students. That same teacher could move to rural WV, where the proficiency level of the students is markedly different, and struggle to meet the performance level that they previously achieved. The raw materials that teachers are expected to mold vary significantly across the school districts in our country.

Do you think the same teacher should be paid the same in rural WV as an affluent suburb of Pittsburgh? Like you said not a level playing field. You cannot even compare a teacher salary in Morgantown to a rural area of WV, cost of living difference is very wide within our own state, let alone the bordering ones.

 

[WVUtotheBig12]

In fact they do have a say in that. Back to exercising the foundational principles of a representative democracy and voting their principles. Call me crazy, maybe I am, but I kind of thought that was the whole point of our system of government.

“This isn’t Russia, Danny, is it?”

Explain to me then how they have a DIRECT impact on the laws where live please. I’m not talking about how they vote in their elected representatives, who promise to implement their wishes either.

 

[popmurtha]

I agree with you regarding the state being uneducated as the core problem. My question is why is it uneducated? Poor teachers, lack of teacher effort due to wages?

Keeping my answer as brief as possible just highlighting the two of the bigger issues IMO:

We have thousands of teaching vacancies, over 7,000 IIRC, thanks in large part due to poor benefits and pay. If we could fill those, it could decrease average class size thereby giving students more individual attention during lessons. The schools themselves are also poorly funded, many of which can't afford newer textbooks for each and every student.

 

[WVUtotheBig12]

Ok, let me use your MATH to help get the point across...

Teacher makes 47000 a YEAR and works 200 days, as stated per you. Teacher makes 235.00 a DAY.
Non Teacher makes 47000 a YEAR and works 261 days, as stated per you. Non Teacher makes 180.07 a DAY.

So again, explain to me how a teacher works the same amount of time and makes less than any other person in a non teaching industry at the same annual salary.

You make no sense.

Please show me exactly where I stated teachers work the same amount of time as those in a non-teaching industry. I was addressing the exaggeration of how much time off from school teachers actually receive.

 

[squigsWV]

I went to Morgantown High. The last week of school my senior year, one of the guidance counselors called me in and asked what I was going to do after high school. When I told her I was going to college she crapped her pants. Found out from my sister teacher that she was supposed to have spoken to me earlier in order to guide me into high school classes that would better prepare me. She was filling out the forms to cover her ass days before I was walking out the door. Just another example of a failed school system.

I went to UHS and had the same situation basically with a certain "well known" guidance counselor. Was told I would never amount to shit, don't waste my time going to college because the best I could hope for was to shovel coal like my father, grandfather and so on. That is were the system is broken, as you said. I ended up doing just fine even without his assistance. Now on the other side their were some VERY good teachers in school that I owe a lot to, however for every good one there were about 2-3 subpar ones as well.

 

[pacs life]

There is no evidence to suggest private charters are performing better than public schools.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-with-charter-schools/?utm_term=.f110ac674f06

It lists several high performing charter schools. Meanwhile we do not have a single gold medal school in our state.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Are you going to state that you believe that a teacher in rural WV and one in an affluent suburb outside of Pittsburgh are on a level playing field. An educator in the PA school district could be considered very effective based on the high-stakes testing scores of their students. That same teacher could move to rural WV, where the proficiency level of the students is markedly different, and struggle to meet the performance level that they previously achieved. The raw materials that teachers are expected to mold vary significantly across the school districts in our country.

I assume your example is in the context of highschool? I’d argue at the foundational level of K-6, there isn’t a huge difference beyond socioeconomic and parental engagement. That aside, and I’m not discounting the importance those 2 points play into the equation, you’re making a counter argument to your side of the discussion. Tenure based salary structures detract from what would be the most important time in a child’s life for an aggressive ROI on the performance of teachers.

Jr High and High School are based on the foundations established at the Elementary level. We protect shitbag teachers in the current model that screw it up for the later stages of adolescent development.

I want to be clear, I’m arguing as a consumer of the service provided by teachers. These are the reasons why I love chosen the private school route. I take my children’s development extremely serious, and current public models in certain areas don’t provide an adequate ROI for my money and time.

 

[WVU enginEER]

Ok, let me use your MATH to help get the point across...

Teacher makes 47000 a YEAR and works 200 days, as stated per you. Teacher makes 235.00 a DAY.
Non Teacher makes 47000 a YEAR and works 261 days, as stated per you. Non Teacher makes 180.07 a DAY.

So again, explain to me how a teacher works the same amount of time and makes less than any other person in a non teaching industry at the same annual salary.

You make no sense.

This is why people with practical mathematical experience need to be allowed to teach math on occasion.