Klan members rally against removal of General Lee statue in Virginia

[WVU82]

A few dozen Ku Klux Klan members and supporters shouted "white power" at a rally on Saturday in Charlottesville, Virginia where they protested against a city council decision to remove a statute honoring Confederate General Robert E. Lee.

The group was guarded by scores of police and outnumbered by hundreds of counter-protesters who waved signs denouncing racism. The anti-KKK protesters raised their voices in chants and shouts, drowning out speeches from the white supremacists, live video feeds on social media showed.

There were no initial reports of violence at the rally that lasted less than an hour. The Klan group that brandished Confederate flags and signs with anti-Semitic messages was separated from crowds by a ring of fencing and a heavy police presence.

In February, the Charlottesville City Council voted 3-2 to remove the statue from the park once named for Lee and make plans for a new memorial to remember the southern city's enslaved population, The Daily Progress, the local newspaper reported.

At least one person who participated in the Klan rally against the statute removal could be seen with a holstered pistol.

Confederacy statues and flags have been removed from public spaces across the United States since 2015, after a white supremacist murdered nine black parishioners at a South Carolina church.

Critics of the monuments say they foster racism by celebrating leaders of the Confederacy in the pro-slavery South during the U.S. Civil War. Supporters say they represent an indelible part of U.S. history and part of regional heritage.

The bronze figures of Lee and his horse, Traveller, atop an oval-shaped granite pedestal has been in the park for nearly a century, the city of Charlottesville said.

Torch-wielding white nationalists rallied in the college town that is home to the University of Virginia's flagship campus in May to protest the move. A legal battle is going on over the stature's removal and no date has been set.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

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A few dozen Ku Klux Klan members and supporters shouted "white power" at a rally on Saturday in Charlottesville, Virginia where they protested against a city council decision to remove a statute honoring Confederate General Robert E. Lee.

The group was guarded by scores of police and outnumbered by hundreds of counter-protesters who waved signs denouncing racism. The anti-KKK protesters raised their voices in chants and shouts, drowning out speeches from the white supremacists, live video feeds on social media showed.

There were no initial reports of violence at the rally that lasted less than an hour. The Klan group that brandished Confederate flags and signs with anti-Semitic messages was separated from crowds by a ring of fencing and a heavy police presence.

In February, the Charlottesville City Council voted 3-2 to remove the statue from the park once named for Lee and make plans for a new memorial to remember the southern city's enslaved population, The Daily Progress, the local newspaper reported.

At least one person who participated in the Klan rally against the statute removal could be seen with a holstered pistol.

Confederacy statues and flags have been removed from public spaces across the United States since 2015, after a white supremacist murdered nine black parishioners at a South Carolina church.

Critics of the monuments say they foster racism by celebrating leaders of the Confederacy in the pro-slavery South during the U.S. Civil War. Supporters say they represent an indelible part of U.S. history and part of regional heritage.

The bronze figures of Lee and his horse, Traveller, atop an oval-shaped granite pedestal has been in the park for nearly a century, the city of Charlottesville said.

Torch-wielding white nationalists rallied in the college town that is home to the University of Virginia's flagship campus in May to protest the move. A legal battle is going on over the stature's removal and no date has been set.

Illinois Nazis, I hate Illinois Nazis

 

[MountaineerWV]

First off, stay classy Virginia!

Secondly, the chants from the other side protesting against the KKK shouldn't have been "Black lives matter".......it should have been Trump's own words......."I like people who weren't captured"............bunch of Confederate loving traitors!

Now, I'm going back to completing my monument celebrating this guy..........people shouldn't care, right? [pfftt]

 

[WVU82]

The removal of any US historical monument is just stupid...

It's like erasing history...

Many of the men in the CSA were previously US soldiers.

 

[MountaineerWV]

The removal of any US historical monument is just stupid...

It's like erasing history...

Many of the men in the CSA were previously US soldiers.

So was Benedict Arnold, so what's your point?

 

[WVU82]

Historical monuments are erected in the first place to remind us of our history.


Charlottesville’s government-approved removal carries a price tag of $400,000.

Charlottesville elected to sell and relocate its Confederate relics.

South Carolina passed the Heritage Protection Act to prohibit the removal of Confederate monuments from public property. Georgia, Mississippi and Tennessee quickly followed suit.

 

[Boomboom521]

Maybe if the Confederate flag wasn't flown so much in modern day America as a sign of some type of "Southern" culture that is being repressed, the outrage towards commemorating Confederate soldiers wouldn't be as substantial? Maybe if it wasnt a raging group of KKK members spewing hate that defended the statue more for the negative that it represented than its historical significance, the statue might mean more to some people than just a symbol of hate?

 

[MountaineerWV]

Historical monuments are erected in the first place to remind us of our history.


Charlottesville’s government-approved removal carries a price tag of $400,000.

Charlottesville elected to sell and relocate its Confederate relics.

South Carolina passed the Heritage Protection Act to prohibit the removal of Confederate monuments from public property. Georgia, Mississippi and Tennessee quickly followed suit.

Yes, well aware of the monuments SPEAKING about Arnold, but none of him (a life-size monument) like we do the Confederate TRAITORS.

When will this nation understand that the Confederates who raised arms against our great nation should NOT be celebrated as heroes. It's a shame.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Maybe if the Confederate flag wasn't flown so much in modern day America as a sign of some type of "Southern" culture that is being repressed, the outrage towards commemorating Confederate soldiers wouldn't be as substantial? Maybe if it wasnt a raging group of KKK members spewing hate that defended the statue more for the negative that it represented than its historical significance, the statue might mean more to some people than just a symbol of hate?

It's not a symbol of anything other than "traitors"......the flag, the monuments, etc.

 

[mneilmont]

the statue might mean more to some people than just a symbol of hate?

Actually, I have seen very few that carries the hate element. I would imagine those that think hate is a vast element are in the minority. Will it ever be possible to allow all of us to put that way, way into the past?

 

[Op2]

It's true that we should not forget our history, even (especially maybe) the bad stuff, but there is a difference between remembering certain parts of it and celebrating those parts. It's my understanding that some Confederate statues aren't simply remembrances but rather are points of honor. Whatever else Confederates were one thing they were for sure is traitors to the US and such people should not be honored. They, like all our history, should be remembered. But not honored.

 

[mneilmont]

It's true that we should not forget our history, even (especially maybe) the bad stuff, but there is a difference between remembering certain parts of it and celebrating those parts. It's my understanding that some Confederate statues aren't simply remembrances but rather are points of honor. Whatever else Confederates were one thing they were for sure is traitors to the US and such people should not be honored. They, like all our history, should be remembered. But not honored.

How is that done? We are allowed to think about it in our own bedroom or dreams?

 

[Op2]

How is that done? We are allowed to think about it in our own bedroom or dreams?

Museums and such. Do you think a big statue of the lead general of a faction of the country that tried to break off and start their own country should be in a town square somewhere? Why?

Are you at least happy that the North won the war? Have you ever thought about what would have happened if the South won that war and became in independent country? Ugh! IMO it was not only a long term massive good for North America that the North won the war but also for the entire planet.

 

[Snow Sled Baby]

First off, stay classy Virginia!

Secondly, the chants from the other side protesting against the KKK shouldn't have been "Black lives matter".......it should have been Trump's own words......."I like people who weren't captured"............bunch of Confederate loving traitors!

Now, I'm going back to completing my monument celebrating this guy..........people shouldn't care, right? [pfftt]

Black Lives Matter are just as bad as the KKK...the only difference being that they are supported by liberals so that makes them ok.....NOT

 

[Snow Sled Baby]

Museums and such. Do you think a big statue of the lead general of a faction of the country that tried to break off and start their own country should be in a town square somewhere? Why?

Are you at least happy that the North won the war? Have you ever thought about what would have happened if the South won that war and became in independent country? Ugh! IMO it was not only a long term massive good for North America that the North won the war but also for the entire planet.

you don't know much about Robert E Lee....maybe you should google the story about Mr Lee kneeling in prayer next to a black man in a Richmond church after the war....nobody else would do it......yep he was a real racist wasn't he?.....and before you give me hell I own a farm that the mason dixon line runs thru....I can stand with one foot in the "north" and one in the "south".......southern history is as much a part of our heritage as northern history....do we now just destroy and blot out everything that makes anybody uncomfortable?....no wonder Mr Trump was elected once and will be again

 

[Op2]

you don't know much about Robert E Lee....maybe you should google the story about Mr Lee kneeling in prayer next to a black man in a Richmond church after the war....nobody else would do it......yep he was a real racist wasn't he?.....and before you give me hell I own a farm that the mason dixon line runs thru....I can stand with one foot in the "north" and one in the "south".......southern history is as much a part of our heritage as northern history....do we now just destroy and blot out everything that makes anybody uncomfortable?....no wonder Mr Trump was elected once and will be again

I didn't say erase history and in fact I explicitly said to remember history. But if the lead general of a faction that tried to break away and start their own country doesn't go down in history as a bad guy then nobody does. I'm not saying he was 100% evil in everything he did, but he was THE LEAD GENERAL OF A FACTION OF THE COUNTRY THAT TRIED TO BREAK AWAY AND START THEIR OWN COUNTRY!!! And not just for a week or two til they came to their senses. The only reason the Confederacy isn't a country today is because they were prevented by force from establishing their own country.

Suppose it's 1865 and the war just ended but the South won and their Confederacy will continue as a separate country. Think about how history would unfold after that? It should make you shudder.

BTW, I don't know where your farm is but the M-D Line is the southern edge of PA and south of that line is WV and Maryland, neither of which were in the Confederacy (well, WV was as a part of VA until it broke away during the Civil War because it didn't want to be part of the Confederacy).

 

[Snow Sled Baby]

I didn't say erase history and in fact I explicitly said to remember history. But if the lead general of a faction that tried to break away and start their own country doesn't go down in history as a bad guy then nobody does. I'm not saying he was 100% evil in everything he did, but he was THE LEAD GENERAL OF A FACTION OF THE COUNTRY THAT TRIED TO BREAK AWAY AND START THEIR OWN COUNTRY!!! And not just for a week or two til they came to their senses. The only reason the Confederacy isn't a country today is because they were prevented by force from establishing their own country.

Suppose it's 1865 and the war just ended but the South won and their Confederacy will continue as a separate country. Think about how history would unfold after that? It should make you shudder.

BTW, I don't know where your farm is but the M-D Line is the southern edge of PA and south of that line is WV and Maryland, neither of which were in the Confederacy (well, WV was as a part of VA until it broke away during the Civil War because it didn't want to be part of the Confederacy).

wetzel county just south of marshall county line....the exact marker now sits on Rt 2 inside a glass case...there is a plaque that states that the marker was moved 568 feet from our property to the highway so it could be seen by the public

 

[Op2]

wetzel county just south of marshall county line....the exact marker now sits on Rt 2 inside a glass case...there is a plaque that states that the marker was moved 568 feet from our property to the highway so it could be seen by the public

I looked it up...wow, you are way out there, almost into Ohio. I assume that that's where the M-D line ends. I didn't realize it extended beyond the southwest corner of PA.

 

[WVU82]

https://www.quora.com/Were-Confederate-soldiers-allowed-to-fight-in-any-wars-after-the-American-Civil-War

Confederate soldiers were not considered felons, criminals, or rebels after the war ended. They were required to take an oath of loyalty to the Union - and that's all that was ever asked of them. Following the end of the War Between the States, many former Confederates did enlist in the Army and served on the western frontiers. Perhaps the most famous example of a former Confederate soldier returning to serve in the U.S. Army is that of General Joseph Wheeler who commanded the cavalry force sent to liberate Cuba in the Spanish-American War.

Former Confederate General Joseph Wheeler (on left) with General Leonard Wood and Colonel Teddy Roosevelt.

-------------------------------------

Approximately 5,600 former Confederate soldiers enlisted in the "United States Volunteers", organized into six regiments of infantry between January 1864 and November 1866."

This saved money for the Federal government and gave them some experienced soldiers to fight on the frontier. It was also a godsend to Hollywood in the days of studio Westerns, as it was an additional source of plot material for brooding, haunted heroic cowboys.

Seriously, this is a good place to point out how American culture was historically different from most countries in its first century and a half. The Founding Fathers had a deep and abiding dislike for professional, standing armies, based on the historical English experiences with Charles I, Cromwell, and the well-known history of the Roman Civil Wars. They knew full well that the most important job of a regular army, year in and year out, was to protect the monarchy from the lower classes and enforce his will on them. Consequently, until 1950, the United States Army was minuscule relative to the size, population, and wealth of the United States and other nations of similar size.

This small regular army had both advantages and disadvantages for the United States. On the one hand, the American army was never strong enough to threaten a military coup, the most important historical threat any democracy faced. On the other hand, the defense of the country had to be entrusted to poorly trained state militia units in a crisis, or hastily raised volunteer units. One reason the Native American tribes were able to withstand the flood of Anglo-American settlement for so long was that the tiny regular army was spread out over thousands of miles of frontier. The reason the states that formed the Confederacy were able to secede so easily was that there were only a few companies of the regular army on hand in 1861 to defend Federal authority against the state militias who enforced secession.

When the Civil War ended, the vast armies raised by the Federal government were mostly disbanded. The regular army was sent out to patrol the frontiers again. Ex-Confederates could enlist in the regular army, as long as they took the oath of loyalty and behaved themselves. It was hard, dirty work out on the frontier, and there were never enough of them to be a threat to anyone.

The question of ex-Confederates signing up to fight in numbers in foreign wars did not come up again until 1898 and the war with Spain. Most Confederates were too old to enlist, but, Joe Wheeler, who had been a young cavalry general in the Civil War, was recruited, at the age of 62, to run the cavalry contingent that was sent to fight in Cuba. He was a US Senator at the time and it was considered a symbolic gesture of the two halves of the country re-uniting to fight a common enemy.

Joe Wheeler was Theodore Roosevelt's brigade commander in Cuba. He was said, at the Battle of Las Guasimas, to have yelled out: "Let's go, boys! We've got the damn Yankees on the run again!"

 

[MountaineerWV]

you don't know much about Robert E Lee....maybe you should google the story about Mr Lee kneeling in prayer next to a black man in a Richmond church after the war....nobody else would do it......yep he was a real racist wasn't he?.....and before you give me hell I own a farm that the mason dixon line runs thru....I can stand with one foot in the "north" and one in the "south".......southern history is as much a part of our heritage as northern history....do we now just destroy and blot out everything that makes anybody uncomfortable?....no wonder Mr Trump was elected once and will be again

I know a little about Lee, his decision, and his dislike of slavery. But, he made the wrong choice and is NOT a hero. That doesn't mean he's a "bad person" or a "racist". Not all Confederates were racists, in fact only a very minuscule amount of southerners were plantation owners or large slave owners. Most couldn't afford to own slaves, and actually despised the plantation system.

Still, just like Benedict Arnold who also made the wrong choice, Lee was on the losing side of a war that was fought AGAINST our great nation. In my opinion, he and the other "Confederate traitors" deserve to be mentioned negatively in history for their actions as well as NOT be celebrated as heroes.

 

[WVU82]

lol...

what riled up the supposed "klan members" is that some idiot spray painted "black lives matter" on the monument...

 

[Snow Sled Baby]

I looked it up...wow, you are way out there, almost into Ohio. I assume that that's where the M-D line ends. I didn't realize it extended beyond the southwest corner of PA.

I think the line was established in two different time frames....our part came in the latter stages......my brother, grandfather and I discovered the marker hidden under a downed tree about 40 years ago. Our aunt bugged the state historical society until they established the monument with the roadside marker...btw I was just there last week....A water company wants to put a line across our property to access a Bayer chemical plant on the Ohio River.....at $53 a foot...Our Farm is the highest point for several miles. There is a 1500 yr old Adeena Indian mound on the farm that we won't let anyone mess with

 

[Snow Sled Baby]

I know a little about Lee, his decision, and his dislike of slavery. But, he made the wrong choice and is NOT a hero. That doesn't mean he's a "bad person" or a "racist". Not all Confederates were racists, in fact only a very minuscule amount of southerners were plantation owners or large slave owners. Most couldn't afford to own slaves, and actually despised the plantation system.

Still, just like Benedict Arnold who also made the wrong choice, Lee was on the losing side of a war that was fought AGAINST our great nation. In my opinion, he and the other "Confederate traitors" deserve to be mentioned negatively in history for their actions as well as NOT be celebrated as heroes.

never said he was a hero.......but he wasn't the racist slave master that many have made him out to be either

 

[Snow Sled Baby]

https://www.quora.com/Were-Confederate-soldiers-allowed-to-fight-in-any-wars-after-the-American-Civil-War

Confederate soldiers were not considered felons, criminals, or rebels after the war ended. They were required to take an oath of loyalty to the Union - and that's all that was ever asked of them. Following the end of the War Between the States, many former Confederates did enlist in the Army and served on the western frontiers. Perhaps the most famous example of a former Confederate soldier returning to serve in the U.S. Army is that of General Joseph Wheeler who commanded the cavalry force sent to liberate Cuba in the Spanish-American War.

Former Confederate General Joseph Wheeler (on left) with General Leonard Wood and Colonel Teddy Roosevelt.

-------------------------------------

Approximately 5,600 former Confederate soldiers enlisted in the "United States Volunteers", organized into six regiments of infantry between January 1864 and November 1866."

This saved money for the Federal government and gave them some experienced soldiers to fight on the frontier. It was also a godsend to Hollywood in the days of studio Westerns, as it was an additional source of plot material for brooding, haunted heroic cowboys.

Seriously, this is a good place to point out how American culture was historically different from most countries in its first century and a half. The Founding Fathers had a deep and abiding dislike for professional, standing armies, based on the historical English experiences with Charles I, Cromwell, and the well-known history of the Roman Civil Wars. They knew full well that the most important job of a regular army, year in and year out, was to protect the monarchy from the lower classes and enforce his will on them. Consequently, until 1950, the United States Army was minuscule relative to the size, population, and wealth of the United States and other nations of similar size.

This small regular army had both advantages and disadvantages for the United States. On the one hand, the American army was never strong enough to threaten a military coup, the most important historical threat any democracy faced. On the other hand, the defense of the country had to be entrusted to poorly trained state militia units in a crisis, or hastily raised volunteer units. One reason the Native American tribes were able to withstand the flood of Anglo-American settlement for so long was that the tiny regular army was spread out over thousands of miles of frontier. The reason the states that formed the Confederacy were able to secede so easily was that there were only a few companies of the regular army on hand in 1861 to defend Federal authority against the state militias who enforced secession.

When the Civil War ended, the vast armies raised by the Federal government were mostly disbanded. The regular army was sent out to patrol the frontiers again. Ex-Confederates could enlist in the regular army, as long as they took the oath of loyalty and behaved themselves. It was hard, dirty work out on the frontier, and there were never enough of them to be a threat to anyone.

The question of ex-Confederates signing up to fight in numbers in foreign wars did not come up again until 1898 and the war with Spain. Most Confederates were too old to enlist, but, Joe Wheeler, who had been a young cavalry general in the Civil War, was recruited, at the age of 62, to run the cavalry contingent that was sent to fight in Cuba. He was a US Senator at the time and it was considered a symbolic gesture of the two halves of the country re-uniting to fight a common enemy.

Joe Wheeler was Theodore Roosevelt's brigade commander in Cuba. He was said, at the Battle of Las Guasimas, to have yelled out: "Let's go, boys! We've got the damn Yankees on the run again!"

just watched the Rough Riders last week on Starz.......he did in fact say that, although under the influence of malaria

 

[MountaineerWV]

never said he was a hero.......but he wasn't the racist slave master that many have made him out to be either

I haven't read where anyone on here made that claim, but I haven't read every post either. He's a traitor, nothing will change my mind. He got off easy as far as I'm concerned.

 

[WVU82]

I've passed that Mason-Dixon marker a thousand times...

it was good to see that they moved it into that plexi-glass box...

saw it last week... again...

 

[Snow Sled Baby]

I haven't read where anyone on here made that claim, but I haven't read every post either. He's a traitor, nothing will change my mind. He got off easy as far as I'm concerned.

the vitriol coming out of the mouths of the liberal crazies in Charlottesville is something to behold.......

 

[Op2]

just watched the Rough Riders last week on Starz.......he did in fact say that, although under the influence of malaria

I'm not crazy about them moving the marker 568 feet so people could see it. Maybe they should have left it where it was for historical purposes.

 

[Snow Sled Baby]

I haven't read where anyone on here made that claim, but I haven't read every post either. He's a traitor, nothing will change my mind. He got off easy as far as I'm concerned.

not folks on this board.....it's the liberal crazies in Charlottesville.........if Lee was a traitor the what is bradley manning?

 

[mneilmont]

Museums and such. Do you think a big statue of the lead general of a faction of the country that tried to break off and start their own country should be in a town square somewhere? Why?

Are you at least happy that the North won the war? Have you ever thought about what would have happened if the South won that war and became in independent country? Ugh! IMO it was not only a long term massive good for North America that the North won the war but also for the entire planet.

Not particularly happy that North won. That should not be misconstrued to suggest anything relating to continuation of slavery. I am in total agreement that all men should be free to pursue their chosen path. For sake of PC, I should extend that to mention women too. Nothing can be indicated as historically accepted like addressing one gender when most reasonable men understand that both genders are insinuated. Also when one gender is uttered, it should be considered as addressing all ethnic forms.

I have often thought about the possibility of a South victory. We would still have intelligence in the North and South? Can you imagine the North looking like Ireland and the South like Africa? Don't you suppose the two would be integrated? I would imagine that they would be like West of the Mississippi. Black and White moved West and no distinction. Even integrated Indians and Mexicans. North and South would be like the rest of the country. I cannot see industry being much different -farming in the South because of growing season. North would still lean to manufacturing because of the immigrants bringing their talents and point of landing.

No, I do not think we would have been different than we are now. Integration may have taken a little longer, but no one should suggest we had integration as soon as the last bullet was fired in Pa. It took a bit of effort, and it would have been the same with a South victory in the end, IMO.

 

[Snow Sled Baby]

I'm not crazy about them moving the marker 568 feet so people could see it. Maybe they should have left it where it was for historical purposes.

it was on the side of a steep hill....would have been tough for some folks to make it up there.......and it would have disturbed our squirrel hunting:gun:

 

[Snow Sled Baby]

I've passed that Mason-Dixon marker a thousand times...

it was good to see that they moved it into that plexi-glass box...

saw it last week... again...

if you look up the power company right of way that's our farm at the top of the hill.......btw....my grandfather could have bought that entire area where the plants are located for 3000 bucks back in 1930 and didn't do it:weary:

 

[WVU82]

---looks like a dozen klan members or a ZZ Top reunion---

---only ones arrested were the SJWs---

---22 arrested, tear gas deployed ---

 

[mneilmont]

I haven't read where anyone on here made that claim, but I haven't read every post either. He's a traitor, nothing will change my mind. He got off easy as far as I'm concerned.

Damned glad that you are not Abe. We would still be fighting the war. Why would they ever quit fighting if they were going to be incarcerated the rest of their lives and never be able to own property. Not sure how smart you are to carry those thoughts in your mind and even speak today of inhumane treatment you would needlessly give to your fellow man.

 

[BombadEER]

You let them remove the monuments then erase history, whats next. It's strange they support a hate group like Black Lives Matter and denounce a hate group like KKK. People are ignorant tools of those that are the true racists in this country, and it ain't southern whites.

 

[Boomboom521]

This thread seems to be all about showing your true colors

 

[MountaineerWV]

not folks on this board.....it's the liberal crazies in Charlottesville.........if Lee was a traitor the what is bradley manning?

I could ask the same about Snowden........and I haven't defended Manning one bit on here, so why ask me that?

 

[Op2]

Not particularly happy that North won. That should not be misconstrued to suggest anything relating to continuation of slavery. I am in total agreement that all men should be free to pursue their chosen path. For sake of PC, I should extend that to mention women too. Nothing can be indicated as historically accepted like addressing one gender when most reasonable men understand that both genders are insinuated. Also when one gender is uttered, it should be considered as addressing all ethnic forms.

I have often thought about the possibility of a South victory. We would still have intelligence in the North and South? Can you imagine the North looking like Ireland and the South like Africa? Don't you suppose the two would be integrated? I would imagine that they would be like West of the Mississippi. Black and White moved West and no distinction. Even integrated Indians and Mexicans. North and South would be like the rest of the country. I cannot see industry being much different -farming in the South because of growing season. North would still lean to manufacturing because of the immigrants bringing their talents and point of landing.

No, I do not think we would have been different than we are now. Integration may have taken a little longer, but no one should suggest we had integration as soon as the last bullet was fired in Pa. It took a bit of effort, and it would have been the same with a South victory in the end, IMO.

You're not happy that the North won the Civil War? Wow!

Have you ever thought about how many countries the contintental US would be today? At least two of course but maybe more. Ever thought about how far slavery would have spread and how long it would have lasted? The Confederacy was in favor of spreading it westward (and the southern US states did all they could to spread it westward before the Confederacy formed).

Would it still have been around in 1900? 1920? Instead of united USA fighting on the side of the Allies in WW 2 we'd have had a divded USA (or more precisely a much smaller USA, a Confederacy and maybe more countries). Germany tried to get Mexico to invade the US to distract the US from fighting the Nazis. I think it would have been a lot easier to get the Confederacy to do it, who would have been natural enemies to the US (and they'd have probably had border wars for decades afterwards to see who got what land in western North America). A Confederacy built on slavery in North America (and that maybe would have still had slavery0 would have been natural allies to a country like Nazi Germany.

Thank goodness the North won that war. The world would be a worse place today otherwise.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Damned glad that you are not Abe. We would still be fighting the war. Why would they ever quit fighting if they were going to be incarcerated the rest of their lives and never be able to own property. Not sure how smart you are to carry those thoughts in your mind and even speak today of inhumane treatment you would needlessly give to your fellow man.

Perhaps they shouldn't have raised arms to begin with? Screw them all. Bunch of traitors. Why wouldn't General Washington just allowed Benedict to come back to America after the war? Oh, because he was a TRAITOR! Lee and his Confederates got off easy.......

 

[WVU82]

the CSA could've taken over the whole continent of South America...

and turned it into a plantation...

and nobody would have cared...