Klan members rally against removal of General Lee statue in Virginia

[MountaineerWV]

the CSA could've taken over the whole continent of South America...

and turned it into a plantation...

and nobody would have cared...

More land for TRUE Americans then......fine by me. And if anyone today thinks the TRAITORS (don't call them the "CSA" because they were NOT a nation and shouldn't be recognized as such) were justified, or should be forgiven, can move out of this great nation, too......

Funny, you guys are sympathetic to traitors that started the Civil War, but are unsympathetic to people wanting health care, equality, etc.

 

[Op2]

the CSA could've taken over the whole continent of South America...

and turned it into a plantation...

and nobody would have cared...

They'd have done as much as that as they could and the only thing preventing them would have been their ability to do so (manpower, etc). They sure as hell wouldn't have had any moral qualms about it.

 

[WVU82]

More land for TRUE Americans then......fine by me. And if anyone today thinks the TRAITORS (don't call them the "CSA" because they were NOT a nation and shouldn't be recognized as such) were justified, or should be forgiven, can move out of this great nation, too......

Funny, you guys are sympathetic to traitors that started the Civil War, but are unsympathetic to people wanting health care, equality, etc.

this ISSUE is about MONUMENTS...

and that's all...

quit being a SJW...

 

[MountaineerWV]

this ISSUE is about MONUMENTS...

and that's all...

quit being a SJW...

You are right, monuments of TRAITORS.......


And I remind you, the traitors were in negotiations with another nation (Britain) for assistance AGAINST the United States......so claim they were fighting for this or that, but they were reaching out to another nation for military and financial assistance......thus they were TRAITORS just like Arnold.

 

[bornaneer]

Perhaps they shouldn't have raised arms to begin with? Screw them all. Bunch of traitors. Why wouldn't General Washington just allowed Benedict to come back to America after the war? Oh, because he was a TRAITOR! Lee and his Confederates got off easy.......

Something I've never understood about you Democrats.......why in the hell you built all those statues of traitors throughout the south.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Something I've never understood about you Democrats.......why in the hell you built all those statues of traitors throughout the south.

I haven't built a damn thing.......

 

[bornaneer]

I haven't built a damn thing.......

But.....you still LIKE to make comments like this one from a few comments from above: "Funny, you guys are sympathetic to traitors that started the Civil War."
Karma is a real bit*h.

 

[WVU82]

23,000 soldiers were killed, wounded or missing after twelve hours of savage combat on September 17, 1862.

worst day in American history...

The Battle of Antietam ended the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia's first invasion into the North and led to Abraham Lincoln's issuance of the preliminary Emancipation Proclamation.

 

[Boomboom521]

I could ask the same about Snowden........and I haven't defended Manning one bit on here, so why ask me that?

Because it's rightwing logic to find comparisons in order to scream hypocrisy....even if it doesn't apply, and even if it hypocritical

 

[Boomboom521]

Something I've never understood about you Democrats.......why in the hell you built all those statues of traitors throughout the south.

Let's continue to debate about Nietzsche

 

[MountaineerWV]

But.....you still LIKE to make comments like this one from a few comments from above: "Funny, you guys are sympathetic to traitors that started the Civil War."
Karma is a real bit*h.

Ok, am I wrong? Are you for keeping the statues up? If I'm wrong, and you want them removed, I apologize. If you think they should stay, then I'm right because it's not about "celebrating" history by keeping the statues, it's about celebrating TRAITORS to America.

 

[bornaneer]

Ok, am I wrong? Are you for keeping the statues up? If I'm wrong, and you want them removed, I apologize. If you think they should stay, then I'm right because it's not about "celebrating" history by keeping the statues, it's about celebrating TRAITORS to America.

I've NEVER wanted them up. I also have NEVER wanted all the schools and highways named with the traitors names. Never figured why all your fellow Dems did it years ago.

 

[Op2]

I've NEVER wanted them up. I also have NEVER wanted all the schools and highways named with the traitors names. Never figured why all your fellow Dems did it years ago.

Why the Democrats years ago were for all the monuments and school names, etc is obvious, namely because back then the Democrats were fans of the Confederacy and even though they lost the war they wanted to honor the Confederates, who they (the Democrats) wanted to win the war.

That was way back then though. The real mystery is why anyone now is still in favor of honoring the Confederates. The Democrats don't want to do it anymore but now the Republicans object to the honors being taken away. Go figure.

 

[mneilmont]

You're not happy that the North won the Civil War? Wow!

Have you ever thought about how many countries the contintental US would be today? At least two of course but maybe more. Ever thought about how far slavery would have spread and how long it would have lasted? The Confederacy was in favor of spreading it westward (and the southern US states did all they could to spread it westward before the Confederacy formed).

Would it still have been around in 1900? 1920? Instead of united USA fighting on the side of the Allies in WW 2 we'd have had a divded USA (or more precisely a much smaller USA, a Confederacy and maybe more countries). Germany tried to get Mexico to invade the US to distract the US from fighting the Nazis. I think it would have been a lot easier to get the Confederacy to do it, who would have been natural enemies to the US (and they'd have probably had border wars for decades afterwards to see who got what land in western North America). A Confederacy built on slavery in North America (and that maybe would have still had slavery0 would have been natural allies to a country like Nazi Germany.

Thank goodness the North won that war. The world would be a worse place today otherwise.

Opie, you are letting your mind wonder too far.

 

[MountaineerWV]

I've NEVER wanted them up. I also have NEVER wanted all the schools and highways named with the traitors names. Never figured why all your fellow Dems did it years ago.

So.......are you claiming that when funding went through the states for these monuments, that only Democrats voted for the funding while Republicans opposed them?

 

[bornaneer]

So.......are you claiming that when funding went through the states for these monuments, that only Democrats voted for the funding while Republicans opposed them?

When the monuments were built and the roads and schools named it was all done by the people in power in those states....The Democrats. I'm also NOT claiming who voted for the funding.......I'm sure you can find that info for us. Your attempt at REVISING history won't work. Your guys did it....now own up to it.
You won't find any Lee or Jackson monuments,highways or schools in the Northeast.....BECAUSE it was all solid Republican at the time.

 

[Boomboom521]

When the monuments were built and the roads and schools named it was all done by the people in power in those states....The Democrats. I'm also NOT claiming who voted for the funding.......I'm sure you can find that info for us. Your attempt at REVISING history won't work. Your guys did it....now own up to it.
You won't find any Lee or Jackson monuments,highways or schools in the Northeast.....BECAUSE it was all solid Republican at the time.

States rights was the central point that caused the political split between the forces in the Civil War. Which party is the party for States Rights?

Let's not try to conflate historical issues by attaching modern identities to them. You're just being ridiculous.....and just trying to win a debate by blinding the other side with bullshit.

 

[Popeer]

Many of the men in the CSA were previously US soldiers.

Which makes them traitors by definition:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. - U.S. Constitution, Article III

 

[Op2]

When the monuments were built and the roads and schools named it was all done by the people in power in those states....The Democrats. I'm also NOT claiming who voted for the funding.......I'm sure you can find that info for us. Your attempt at REVISING history won't work. Your guys did it....now own up to it.
You won't find any Lee or Jackson monuments,highways or schools in the Northeast.....BECAUSE it was all solid Republican at the time.

Nobody is questioning who did it. You're right, when the monuments went up the Democrats were in power. That was 100-150 years. Democrats were the reason the monuments went up in the first place.

But is there a rule that once a monument goes up it must stay up forever? No. Who are the reason the monuments are staying up today? Republicans.

Pointing out that the other side honored slave-holding traitors 100-150 years ago when the other side doesn't honor those slave-holding traitors today but your side does isn't good tactics.

 

[Mntneer]

States rights was the central point that caused the political split between the forces in the Civil War. Which party is the party for States Rights?

Let's not try to conflate historical issues by attaching modern identities to them. You're just being ridiculous.....and just trying to win a debate by blinding the other side with bullshit.

If you don't want to conflate historical issues... then first get those historical issues correct.

1) The Civil War was about slavery.
2) The Republican Party was born out of the anti-slavery movement.

 

[Op2]

If you don't want to conflate historical issues... then first get those historical issues correct.

1) The Civil War was about slavery.
2) The Republican Party was born out of the anti-slavery movement.

You forgot one.

3) The Republicans of today want to honor the slave-holders that the Republicans of the 1860s fought the Civil War against.

 

[MountaineerWV]

You won't find any Lee or Jackson monuments,highways or schools in the Northeast.....BECAUSE it was all solid Republican at the time.

Wow, no sh!t Sherlock! I think you won't find those in the Northeast for a few other obvious reasons.....and they are not political party! Let's see.......Civil War.......North vs. South.....hmmmm......

 

[Boomboom521]

If you don't want to conflate historical issues... then first get those historical issues correct.

1) The Civil War was about slavery.
2) The Republican Party was born out of the anti-slavery movement.

1) Not really
2) sure, to an extent

 

[MountaineerWV]

1) Not really
2) sure, to an extent

1) Yes, slavery was the "states rights" issue.....whether or not the federal government had the right OVER the states to ban slavery, or refuse to allow it to spread to new territories

1B) You could make a better argument by saying the result of the Mexican War caused the Civil War better than the old "states rights" reason, which is too simple.

2) The Republican Party was formed over the issue of slavery, HOWEVER......not all Republicans agreed with a solution and the party split in to two different factions: Republicans and "Radical" Republicans.....of which Lincoln was NOT one of.......he was on the Republican side of KEEPING slavery, but not allowing it to spread to new territories/states.....and under the belief it would die off on its own and avoid war......the Radicals (Thaddeus Stevens) wanted it ended, IMMEDIATELY, and if it meant war, so be it.......

 

[rog1187]

View embedded media

A few dozen Ku Klux Klan members and supporters shouted "white power" at a rally on Saturday in Charlottesville, Virginia where they protested against a city council decision to remove a statute honoring Confederate General Robert E. Lee.

The group was guarded by scores of police and outnumbered by hundreds of counter-protesters who waved signs denouncing racism. The anti-KKK protesters raised their voices in chants and shouts, drowning out speeches from the white supremacists, live video feeds on social media showed.

There were no initial reports of violence at the rally that lasted less than an hour. The Klan group that brandished Confederate flags and signs with anti-Semitic messages was separated from crowds by a ring of fencing and a heavy police presence.

In February, the Charlottesville City Council voted 3-2 to remove the statue from the park once named for Lee and make plans for a new memorial to remember the southern city's enslaved population, The Daily Progress, the local newspaper reported.

At least one person who participated in the Klan rally against the statute removal could be seen with a holstered pistol.

Confederacy statues and flags have been removed from public spaces across the United States since 2015, after a white supremacist murdered nine black parishioners at a South Carolina church.

Critics of the monuments say they foster racism by celebrating leaders of the Confederacy in the pro-slavery South during the U.S. Civil War. Supporters say they represent an indelible part of U.S. history and part of regional heritage.

The bronze figures of Lee and his horse, Traveller, atop an oval-shaped granite pedestal has been in the park for nearly a century, the city of Charlottesville said.

Torch-wielding white nationalists rallied in the college town that is home to the University of Virginia's flagship campus in May to protest the move. A legal battle is going on over the stature's removal and no date has been set.

It's a historical marker IMO...nothing more and nothing less.

 

[MountaineerWV]

It's a historical marker IMO...nothing more and nothing less.

This is a "historical marker", which I am fine with......

A statue is NOT a "historical marker"........

 

[rog1187]

This is a "historical marker", which I am fine with......

A statue is NOT a "historical marker"........

Sure it is...it's an inanimate object that marks some historical context.

 

[Boomboom521]

Sure it is...it's an inanimate object that marks some historical context.

It's an inanimate object that celebrates a man's contributions

 

[rog1187]

It's an inanimate object that celebrates a man's contributions

How does it celebrate it?

 

[MountaineerWV]

It's an inanimate object that celebrates a man's contributions

Again, I'll make this point, Benedict Arnold did more and sacrificed for OUR NATION (before switching sides, Quebec and Saratoga) than any of those Confederate pu$$ies did, and you cannot construct a statue of Benedict Arnold in the United States. Only "markers" or statues of his boot are allowed, but nothing depicting his IMAGE in statue form.

Sure, Lee and some others fought in the Mexican War, but their actions to DESTROY our great nation overrides any good that they did before, or after, the war....and should not be celebrated.

 

[Boomboom521]

How does it celebrate it?

Really?

 

[Boomboom521]

Again, I'll make this point, Benedict Arnold did more and sacrificed for OUR NATION (before switching sides, Quebec and Saratoga) than any of those Confederate pu$$ies did, and you cannot construct a statue of Benedict Arnold in the United States. Only "markers" or statues of his boot are allowed, but nothing depicting his IMAGE in statue form.

Sure, Lee and some others fought in the Mexican War, but their actions to DESTROY our great nation overrides any good that they did before, or after, the war....and should not be celebrated.

I'd say West Point can celebrate his contributions, but any image of Lee used in a celebratory fashion shouldn't be in a Confederate uniform.

 

[bornaneer]

Let's not try to conflate historical issues by attaching modern identities to them. You're just being ridiculous.....and just trying to win a debate by blinding the other side with bullshit.

Maybe you should address your concerns to the OP that started with the blame game. I also NEVER made any comments about reasons for the Civil War. I did point out historical facts about what party controlled the states where statues were erected and school and road naming was done to honor treasonous people. If you have other FACTS the show otherwise......lay them out. Otherwise ........butt out.

 

[bornaneer]

Who are the reason the monuments are staying up today? Republicans.

Not this Republican. You are trying to tell me that todays Democrats want to tear down the statues? You are full of it.......There are MANY Democrats that I know here in the EP that are fighting to keep them up.

 

[The Big Skipbowski]

never said he was a hero.......but he wasn't the racist slave master that many have made him out to be either

His reputation as a gentleman is a bit exaggerated as well.

The Army of Northern Virginia actively targeted blacks when they entered Union territory, and was known for seizing black citizens to be re-enslaved in the South. Lee was not directly involved, but considering he issued explicit orders to respect the property of whites but made no mention of the treatment of blacks gives us a good idea about where he stood.

https://deadconfederates.com/2010/07/01/old-pete-slave-raids-and-the-gettysburg-campaign/

 

[bornaneer]

His reputation as a gentleman is a bit exaggerated as well.

Yea...I heard he once refused to open a door for his wife.

 

[Boomboom521]

Maybe you should address your concerns to the OP that started with the blame game. I also NEVER made any comments about reasons for the Civil War. I did point out historical facts about what party controlled the states where statues were erected and school and road naming was done to honor treasonous people. If you have other FACTS the show otherwise......lay them out. Otherwise ........butt out.

Here's some facts: liberalism drove that nasty racist bullsh1t out of the Democratic Party and established a more American ideology. The Republicans adopted that "Southern" racist ideology under Nixon in order to win the criminal, socially inept, puppet the WH. Reagan continued the play with a call for a renewal of "States Rights" and "law and order", which outlines two core beliefs of the modern Republican Party. I'm not saying the script was completely flipped, but close to it. And those "Democrats" that voted to built monuments to the Confederate cause, would have voted the Republican ticket today.

 

[Mntneer]

Here's some facts: liberalism drove that nasty racist bullsh1t out of the Democratic Party and established a more American ideology. The Republicans adopted that "Southern" racist ideology under Nixon in order to win the criminal, socially inept, puppet the WH. Reagan continued the play with a call for a renewal of "States Rights" and "law and order", which outlines two core beliefs of the modern Republican Party. I'm not saying the script was completely flipped, but close to it. And those "Democrats" that voted to built monuments to the Confederate cause, would have voted the Republican ticket today.

 

[Boomboom521]

Don't cry about it. It's just politics.

 

[bornaneer]

Here's some facts: liberalism drove that nasty racist bullsh1t out of the Democratic Party and established a more American ideology. The Republicans adopted that "Southern" racist ideology under Nixon in order to win the criminal, socially inept, puppet the WH. Reagan continued the play .

LMAO...sure they did. How many traitor statues did Nixon and Reagan have erected? Oh.....I must have missed all the EO's Dick and Ronnie signed to get all those southern highways renamed to honor all those Southern traitors.