HCDH

[Buckaineer]

Do you believe that expectations would have been higher this year if Dana would have stayed?

I don't think anyone would have given us very good odds with what we had lost and the youth and inexperience returning. All of this certainly made it easier for Dana to leave for Houston while his name still had some value. After this year, and the lowered expectations by everyone - coaching staff, fans, the writers - his star would have been on the wane and the value he could receive at his next stop would have been less.

So, it would have been "ground zero" this year with or without Dana at the helm.

I agree that Brown hasn't won a game here yet. Still, people like his approach to the game, the fans, etc. better than they liked Dana's, generally speaking. Will that formula equal out to more success? Time will tell. I feel that's what has gotten fans "expectations" up more so than what the win total will be this year which likely wasn't going to be great regardless.

Yes, WVU would finish and be expected to finish no lower than 4th in conference with Holgorsen at the helm. Look how many players left under Brown already.

Holgorsen won 7 games or better on average at WVU every year. Good QB into the mix and he would again have had WVU in contention.

Brown is lowering expectations and the pundits believe WVU may not even make a bowl game. No one knows if his "approach to the game" is any different than Holgorsen's, everyone just made up a bunch of bunk about DH because they were mad at him for being asked to take over for the previous coach.

As a WVU fan I don't want WVU moving backwards I want no less than what Holgorsen produced right off the bat. Success like the new coaches at ISU and Oklahoma and Purdue. They didn't chase off half the team and they didn't take their programs in reverse.

There doesn't have to be a rebuild, the team had been built up and just needed a few new pieces. Now its back to the drawing board from most "in the know" out there.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

Dana did some things poorly.

Let's not act like he built a complete team. His ability to find ways to get playmakers in space is up there with some of the best. Problem is he thinks he is one of the best as well.
So he went all on offense and hoped and prayed his defense could hold. If not let's go down and score as quick as possible.

A lot of the things Neal Brown does on offense is similar. Plus he is a coach who will create an offense around the players he has like any decent coach. Neal Brown has the ability to create more of an efficient methodical offense as well. Truthfully don't know what his preference will be. Recruiting will determine a lot

But Neal Brown should start his career at 0.
Problem is Brown isn't. Brown is starting his career at West Virginia with this idea that he is going to give what they were missing with Dana Holgersen.

Some on here will say no and argue this point but I have seen it the past eight months on here.
Setting him up for failure. When he isn't winning 9+ games people will consider him a failure.
Because he is better than Dana...

 

[hbeacheer]

When it mattered most, Holgs was .500 coaching in conference and bowl games combined. That’s what he is. He had talent on the roster that was drafted into the nfl, but was still around .500 in those games. Talent wasn’t the problem. He made a move to a school and conference that he’s best suited for and should have more success. Wvu made a solid hire and the right decision to let him go. In the long run it should pay off by letting him walk.

 

[Chazz Michael Michaels]

By “putting the pieces in place”, do you mean going 0-3 to end the season two years in a row? Losing 4 of last 5 bowl games?
0-7 against OU?
There were some things I liked about Dana. But we were not turning the corner with him. He had 8 seasons. It was not exciting to think of more of that. He had checked out and didn’t want to be here any more.
Maybe HCNB will get us where we want, maybe not. But, after 7 years in B12 of not getting there, it was time to find out if someone else can do it.

DH was putting pieces in place to have a more successful program in the toughest league in the country to win.

Now, the Mountaineers are going to start over almost from scratch.

Not excited for a long year with less success than what Holgorsen had been bringing and people acting as though that is ok or good.

 

[Chazz Michael Michaels]

You’re delusional if you think we would’ve been picked 4th. No way. And Dana could only could get us to 4th with grier Gary DSills Long - a team that should’ve finished higher. But it’s all moot. Bottom line: Dana chose to leave.
Are you saying we should have given him a raise after finishing 0-3 to end season last 2 years in a row?
Dude, there’s a seat waiting for you on the Htown Mafia drunk bus.

Yes, WVU would finish and be expected to finish no lower than 4th in conference with Holgorsen at the helm. Look how many players left under Brown already.

Holgorsen won 7 games or better on average at WVU every year. Good QB into the mix and he would again have had WVU in contention.

Brown is lowering expectations and the pundits believe WVU may not even make a bowl game. No one knows if his "approach to the game" is any different than Holgorsen's, everyone just made up a bunch of bunk about DH because they were mad at him for being asked to take over for the previous coach.

As a WVU fan I don't want WVU moving backwards I want no less than what Holgorsen produced right off the bat. Success like the new coaches at ISU and Oklahoma and Purdue. They didn't chase off half the team and they didn't take their programs in reverse.

There doesn't have to be a rebuild, the team had been built up and just needed a few new pieces. Now its back to the drawing board from most "in the know" out there.

 

[LAMountaineer]

Wish he had stayed
or
glad he is gone

My biggest problem with the DH years is that we never had a competent defense. DH continued to have faith in a weak DC -- one who still believes that the 3-3-5 was a competitive defense. Last year was proof. We had an offense that ran over people. But, we also had a defense that could not stop people. And, quite frequently the offense scored too quickly, not allowing a weak D to rest between series. I am enthused that HCNB will change that scenario. I believe that HCNB will use a ball-control offense. That alone will help his defense. Only time will tell if my expectations are realistic.

 

[OlegeezEER]

Yes, WVU would finish and be expected to finish no lower than 4th in conference with Holgorsen at the helm. Look how many players left under Brown already.

Holgorsen won 7 games or better on average at WVU every year. Good QB into the mix and he would again have had WVU in contention.

Brown is lowering expectations and the pundits believe WVU may not even make a bowl game. No one knows if his "approach to the game" is any different than Holgorsen's, everyone just made up a bunch of bunk about DH because they were mad at him for being asked to take over for the previous coach.

As a WVU fan I don't want WVU moving backwards I want no less than what Holgorsen produced right off the bat. Success like the new coaches at ISU and Oklahoma and Purdue. They didn't chase off half the team and they didn't take their programs in reverse.

There doesn't have to be a rebuild, the team had been built up and just needed a few new pieces. Now its back to the drawing board from most "in the know" out there.

Most are expecting the 2019 season to be a rebuilding year. If DH had returned that still would be the view. If we had DH this season we would probably win more games then we would under Brown. Mostly because his system is in place and he is familiar with the personal. When making a coaching change it isn't about one season its about the big picture. The picture that DH painted after 8 seasons was a guy that was going to get you 7-8 wins with a mid to lower tier bowl game. Outside of his 1st season and the 2013 season in which we went 4-8 every other season was characterized by a late season swoon. DH had the opportunity to return but he choose to move on. Lyons could have easily met whatever demands DH wanted but he choose to move on. If you are a WVU fan as you say then its time for to move on as well.

 

[Rootmaster]

. Look how many players left under Brown already.

And that is a physical expression of the kind of attitude DH imparted on these losers. Good bye. Welcome new guys.

BTW: hard to understand why folks on the board even acknowledge you BuckedUpEeer. You are such a basement dweller when it comes to sucking up to DH. Surprised you haven't taken residence at the Cougar site.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

Wish he had stayed
or
glad he is gone

LOL at Conference pride homers. Big12 will be lucky to be here if Texas and Oklahoma continue to be shit partners.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

Texas mainly but Oklahoma and Kansas some as well allow schools in the Big 12 to have nice things by bringing in revenue

WVU brings in more money than Pitt on their conference deal and is investing that money into their programs.
Try again Greggy

 

[WVUALLEN]

Yes, WVU would finish and be expected to finish no lower than 4th in conference with Holgorsen at the helm. Look how many players left under Brown already.

Holgorsen won 7 games or better on average at WVU every year. Good QB into the mix and he would again have had WVU in contention.

Brown is lowering expectations and the pundits believe WVU may not even make a bowl game. No one knows if his "approach to the game" is any different than Holgorsen's, everyone just made up a bunch of bunk about DH because they were mad at him for being asked to take over for the previous coach.

As a WVU fan I don't want WVU moving backwards I want no less than what Holgorsen produced right off the bat. Success like the new coaches at ISU and Oklahoma and Purdue. They didn't chase off half the team and they didn't take their programs in reverse.

There doesn't have to be a rebuild, the team had been built up and just needed a few new pieces. Now its back to the drawing board from most "in the know" out there.

Your Boy averaged 7 wins a season. When Brown becomes successful here don't come around acting like he knew it all along. Holgs took this team as far as he could take them. Oh and by the way Holgs 1-5 in bowls.

You're a complete dick and should be banned for your lack of knowledge. Go back to the 247 board and cry about the Big 12 not expanding.

You're no WVU fan.

 

[RichardCranium1]

For a very low price you can hear the Head Coach talk about running an offense. Sounds very similar to Dana Holgersen.Amazon product ASIN B01GUP7VJQ

 

[TownesVanZandt]

My biggest problem with the DH years is that we never had a competent defense. DH continued to have faith in a weak DC -- one who still believes that the 3-3-5 was a competitive defense. Last year was proof. We had an offense that ran over people. But, we also had a defense that could not stop people. And, quite frequently the offense scored too quickly, not allowing a weak D to rest between series. I am enthused that HCNB will change that scenario. I believe that HCNB will use a ball-control offense. That alone will help his defense. Only time will tell if my expectations are realistic.

You do know the difference between a 4-2-5 and a 3-3-5 is very small.

Both are odd man fronts. The difference is the 3/4 is what you call a Bandit.
In other versions of the 3-3-5 it is called the Buck or B Backer. A hybrid position.

I didn't like Gibson's version because of the lack of versatility.

But ultimately WV will still play with an odd man front and use that 4th DL as someone that can rush the passer or drop back in coverage.
Same thing you see in most versions of the 3-3-5.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

Texas mainly but Oklahoma and Kansas some as well allow schools in the Big 12 to have nice things by bringing in revenue

WVU brings in more money than Pitt on their conference deal and is investing that money into their programs.
Try again Greggy

5-0 misses the point.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

Let's not turn this into some bullshit conference realignment topic.
We have been through this too many times.

Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about. You just want to troll West Virginia. This is obvious. You definitely don't care about facts and the truth.

When the Big 12's first and second tier rights come up in a few years we will see where everyone is at.
Obviously FOX wants to force the Big 12's hand because they are hoping they can get Texas to join the B1G with either Oklahoma or Kansas.
But FOX doesn't have that much power.

If 85% of Pitt football games are on Netflix or Hulu...

What about you going to do?
Purchase it. Especially Hulu because you can get all the channels you pretty much can from your local televsion provider.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

Let's not turn this into some bullshit conference realignment topic.
We have been through this too many times.

Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about. You just want to troll West Virginia. This is obvious. You definitely don't care about facts and the truth.

When the Big 12's first and second tier rights come up in a few years we will see where everyone is at.
Obviously FOX wants to force the Big 12's hand because they are hoping they can get Texas to join the B1G with either Oklahoma or Kansas.
But FOX doesn't have that much power.

If 85% of Pitt football games are on Netflix or Hulu...

What about you going to do...
Purchase it. Especially Hulu because you can get all the channels you pretty much can from your local televsion provider.

Nope homer I trolled Texas and Oklahoma. You just pivoted to realignment haha. No thanks.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

You did say the conference is going to fall a part because Oklahoma and Texas shit on the rest of the conference....

Pretty much moving the conversation that direction to make WV think that their position in a Power Conference will come to an end.
Truth is like I said numerous times Pitt has a greater chance to end up on the outside looking in than WVU.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

You did say the conference is going to fall a part because Oklahoma and Texas shit on the rest of the conference....

Pretty much moving the conversation that direction to make WV think that their position in a Power Conference will come to an end.
Truth is like I said numerous times Pitt has a greater chance to end up on the outside looking in than WVU.

Nope you’re making crap up. Texas and Oklahoma are garbage partners and that was my point. I didn’t say it WOULD FALL APART. You said that knucklehead.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

Quoting Greggy.

"LOL at Conference pride homers. Big12 will be lucky to be here if Texas and Oklahoma continue to be shit partners."

 

[TRU2WVU]

Wow...how many times can a variation of this question be asked? Old, old, classic oldies.

Seriously, when will people let this go???

 

[Buckaineer]

By “putting the pieces in place”, do you mean going 0-3 to end the season two years in a row? Losing 4 of last 5 bowl games?
0-7 against OU?
There were some things I liked about Dana. But we were not turning the corner with him. He had 8 seasons. It was not exciting to think of more of that. He had checked out and didn’t want to be here any more.
Maybe HCNB will get us where we want, maybe not. But, after 7 years in B12 of not getting there, it was time to find out if someone else can do it.

WVU played some excellent teams those two years to end the season, and lost QBs too.

WVU has to get better players all around.

So far WVU has lost numerous quality players under the new HC and has won nothing, and Holgorsen left on his own, WVU didn't fire him.

Had he stayed, WVU would be in contention for a BIG 12 championship.

Now? Starting over with no idea where things will eventually go, in a critical period of time just before conferences begin negotiating rights again.

 

[Rootmaster]

WVU played some excellent teams those two years to end the season, and lost QBs too.

and...the dog ate my homework...I forgot my wallet...the teacher doesn't like me...coach plays favorites...it was only a one night stand

 

[OlegeezEER]

WVU played some excellent teams those two years to end the season, and lost QBs too.

WVU has to get better players all around.

So far WVU has lost numerous quality players under the new HC and has won nothing, and Holgorsen left on his own, WVU didn't fire him.

Had he stayed, WVU would be in contention for a BIG 12 championship.

Now? Starting over with no idea where things will eventually go, in a critical period of time just before conferences begin negotiating rights again.

 

[Buckaineer]

Some people are unintelligent. So when faced with facts they resort to childish name calling and or troll gimmicks like infantile images.

But facts are facts whether some like it or not.

WVU final three games last two seasons had bad results not due to a "bad" coach, but due to both key players being out and the level of opponents played--all bowl teams or playoff teams and most ranked--two in the top 6. Most coaches would struggle against such competition with all their players in, few teams face such a tough schedule in their last 3 games once, let alone two seasons in a row:

2018 season

loss at Oklahoma State (bowl winner vs. SEC program) at their place, a team WVU is 4-6 against all time (4 pt. loss)

loss against No. 6 Oklahoma (playoff #4) (3 pt loss)

QB Will Grier departs team-DH forced to play an inexperienced QB, several other key players do not play:
loss in Bowl vs. #17 Syracuse

2017 season

v #24 TEXAS (QB Will Grier lost for season during game)

No. 3 Oklahoma (playoff #2) (inexperienced BU QB played entire game)

Bowl vs. Utah (inexperienced BU QB played entire game, top RB (3rd leading conference rusher-DNP)

 

[Rootmaster]

BuckedUpEeer has been named "Googler of the Year". (He/she/it believes that no one else has access!) Love affair with DH continues lol.

 

[Mountain Man]

Some people are unintelligent. So when faced with facts they resort to childish name calling and or troll gimmicks like infantile images.

But facts are facts whether some like it or not.

WVU final three games last two seasons had bad results not due to a "bad" coach, but due to both key players being out and the level of opponents played--all bowl teams or playoff teams and most ranked--two in the top 6. Most coaches would struggle against such competition with all their players in, few teams face such a tough schedule in their last 3 games once, let alone two seasons in a row:

2018 season

loss at Oklahoma State (bowl winner vs. SEC program) at their place, a team WVU is 4-6 against all time (4 pt. loss)

loss against No. 6 Oklahoma (playoff #4) (3 pt loss)

QB Will Grier departs team-DH forced to play an inexperienced QB, several other key players do not play:
loss in Bowl vs. #17 Syracuse

2017 season

v #24 TEXAS (QB Will Grier lost for season during game)

No. 3 Oklahoma (playoff #2) (inexperienced BU QB played entire game)

Bowl vs. Utah (inexperienced BU QB played entire game, top RB (3rd leading conference rusher-DNP)

With Chuganov at QB? what do you expect? Kendall is way more talented. No disrespect to Allison but he'll most likely be 3rd on the depth chart in the furture. I think Lowe and Dodge(or whatever the Bowling Green transfer name is) will surpass him over time.

 

[doneagain]

Some people are unintelligent. So when faced with facts they resort to childish name calling and or troll gimmicks like infantile images.

But facts are facts whether some like it or not.

WVU final three games last two seasons had bad results not due to a "bad" coach, but due to both key players being out and the level of opponents played--all bowl teams or playoff teams and most ranked--two in the top 6. Most coaches would struggle against such competition with all their players in, few teams face such a tough schedule in their last 3 games once, let alone two seasons in a row:

2018 season

loss at Oklahoma State (bowl winner vs. SEC program) at their place, a team WVU is 4-6 against all time (4 pt. loss)

loss against No. 6 Oklahoma (playoff #4) (3 pt loss)

QB Will Grier departs team-DH forced to play an inexperienced QB, several other key players do not play:
loss in Bowl vs. #17 Syracuse

2017 season

v #24 TEXAS (QB Will Grier lost for season during game)

No. 3 Oklahoma (playoff #2) (inexperienced BU QB played entire game)

Bowl vs. Utah (inexperienced BU QB played entire game, top RB (3rd leading conference rusher-DNP)

So are we down to moral victories, talking about only a 4 point loss to a team we have a losing record against... 4-6... Dana coached 8 of those games. A loss is a loss. Other teams lose players too, and they still have to play the games. I mean, poor old Oklahoma had to do without Baker Mayfield for a whole 3 plays against WVU due to his “discipline” in 2017. How they recovered after that devastation I will never know.

I have said it dozens of times on here, I liked Dana, but Dana decided to go elsewhere. Like it or not, Neal Brown is the coach a WVU. My loyalty is with WVU, not a coach. Coaches come and go. I support whoever is the coach. I dont hate the next guy following the coach simply because he is not the previous guy. All the anger in the world will not turn back the clock. Dana is gone because he chose to go. He was not fired or asked to resign, and he still had several years left on his contract.

Some say he was worried he would get fired after this season because we would not have had a top 25 team, but WVU was not going to pay his buyout and then try to hire a new coach at 3 million a year, plus Lyons knew what Dana was losing on offense, so he was not getting fired. But according to you, we will now take a step back under Brown, but wouldn’t we have struggled this season under Dana, too?

 

[Nova Mountaineer]

Bottom line - Dana wasn't a good head coach for us and perhaps won't be for anyone. Other
than the Orange Bowl with Bill Stewart's recruits our teams weren't that good under Dana -
not tough, not focused and undisciplined. Nearly every season went into shitter late in
season. He was not fan friendly. Going for two against Texas might have very well been
his finishest as Mountaineer coach - other than Orange Bowl. Clear evidence of Dana's
ability - look where our program went after Orange Bowl and where Clemson's program
has gone after Orange Bowl.

 

[OlegeezEER]

Some people are unintelligent. So when faced with facts they resort to childish name calling and or troll gimmicks like infantile images.

But facts are facts whether some like it or not.

WVU final three games last two seasons had bad results not due to a "bad" coach, but due to both key players being out and the level of opponents played--all bowl teams or playoff teams and most ranked--two in the top 6. Most coaches would struggle against such competition with all their players in, few teams face such a tough schedule in their last 3 games once, let alone two seasons in a row:

2018 season

loss at Oklahoma State (bowl winner vs. SEC program) at their place, a team WVU is 4-6 against all time (4 pt. loss)

loss against No. 6 Oklahoma (playoff #4) (3 pt loss)

QB Will Grier departs team-DH forced to play an inexperienced QB, several other key players do not play:
loss in Bowl vs. #17 Syracuse

2017 season

v #24 TEXAS (QB Will Grier lost for season during game)

No. 3 Oklahoma (playoff #2) (inexperienced BU QB played entire game)

Bowl vs. Utah (inexperienced BU QB played entire game, top RB (3rd leading conference rusher-DNP)

And what facts are you talking about? Yeah we lost to an Oklahoma state team that finished with a 7-6 record. That's not exactly a good team. The year before we lose to Texas and Utah teams that finished 7-6 not exactly good teams either. When you're 7-8 years in you think that a coach has built the necessary depth to sustain the program when injuries occur. Wvu would have been picked to finish no higher than 6th if DH was back this year. If he came back he would have a new unproven QB, his 2 best receivers are gone and the majority of the swing games are on the road this year. DH always liked to gamble. If he felt this team had a chance to compete for the big 12 he would have rolled the dice and returned. But everyone with common sense knows this wasn't the case. DH knew it as well that's why he took the midnight express out of Morgantown. But don't let facts get in the way of your anti WVU, Anti Brown trolling agenda.

 

[Buckaineer]

So are we down to moral victories, talking about only a 4 point loss to a team we have a losing record against... 4-6... Dana coached 8 of those games. A loss is a loss. Other teams lose players too, and they still have to play the games. I mean, poor old Oklahoma had to do without Baker Mayfield for a whole 3 plays against WVU due to his “discipline” in 2017. How they recovered after that devastation I will never know.

I have said it dozens of times on here, I liked Dana, but Dana decided to go elsewhere. Like it or not, Neal Brown is the coach a WVU. My loyalty is with WVU, not a coach. Coaches come and go. I support whoever is the coach. I dont hate the next guy following the coach simply because he is not the previous guy. All the anger in the world will not turn back the clock. Dana is gone because he chose to go. He was not fired or asked to resign, and he still had several years left on his contract.

Some say he was worried he would get fired after this season because we would not have had a top 25 team, but WVU was not going to pay his buyout and then try to hire a new coach at 3 million a year, plus Lyons knew what Dana was losing on offense, so he was not getting fired. But according to you, we will now take a step back under Brown, but wouldn’t we have struggled this season under Dana, too?

No one said anything about "moral" victories. Just stated facts which you obviously don't like.

WVU played a tough schedule and when you are not a powerhouse program, you may not win those games, but the lot of you are acting as though WVU was not competitive, or that they were playing an AAC or sunbelt schedule when these losses happened.

WVU had more key players out, not just players KEY players. It matters. They played some very good to excellent programs with better talent. They lost. Doesn't make Holgorsen a bad coach, because he defeated lots of those teams too. Highly ranked teams . Won several big games.

But you and others conveniently ignore the wins and only talk about losses as though every coach doesn't have those across the country.

Bottom line remains that even with some losses, Holgorsen played the toughest schedules at WVU and won at a very high level compared to every coach that has ever coached at WVU. PERIOD.

 

[Buckaineer]

And what facts are you talking about? Yeah we lost to an Oklahoma state team that finished with a 7-6 record. That's not exactly a good team. The year before we lose to Texas and Utah teams that finished 7-6 not exactly good teams either. When you're 7-8 years in you think that a coach has built the necessary depth to sustain the program when injuries occur. Wvu would have been picked to finish no higher than 6th if DH was back this year. If he came back he would have a new unproven QB, his 2 best receivers are gone and the majority of the swing games are on the road this year. DH always liked to gamble. If he felt this team had a chance to compete for the big 12 he would have rolled the dice and returned. But everyone with common sense knows this wasn't the case. DH knew it as well that's why he took the midnight express out of Morgantown. But don't let facts get in the way of your anti WVU, Anti Brown trolling agenda.

Oklahoma State won a bowl that year. That's a good team.

Utah won a bowl.

Texas has been getting better and Holgorsen beat them a good number of times including last year.

BIG 12 teams were 7-6 in large part because they played in the toughest league in the country. A ten team league where everyone plays everyone else is going to produce losses. A 7-6 team in the BIG 12 might win 8 or 9 at least in the other power conferences. When everyone plays everyone, someone MUST lose.

If one team in the BIG 12 goes 9-0, then NO other team can in the regular season.

If one team goes 9-0 and another 8-1, NO other team can win 8 games.

Its a tough league with alot of balance top to bottom--moreso than other P5s, with a brutal schedule to win. Maybe some of you will finally understand that this year.

 

[Buckaineer]

Bottom line - Dana wasn't a good head coach for us and perhaps won't be for anyone. Other
than the Orange Bowl with Bill Stewart's recruits our teams weren't that good under Dana -
not tough, not focused and undisciplined. Nearly every season went into shitter late in
season. He was not fan friendly. Going for two against Texas might have very well been
his finishest as Mountaineer coach - other than Orange Bowl. Clear evidence of Dana's
ability - look where our program went after Orange Bowl and where Clemson's program
has gone after Orange Bowl.

Bottom line Holgorsen was one of the best coaches EVER at WVU.

He was focused, disciplined and tough.

He was faced with taking a down program left from the previous coach into the toughest league to win in the country which included lots of travel in planes for large football players and against the most highly ranked teams WVU has ever played, in a conference where everyone plays everyone else so someone has to lose.

Now, some want to celebrate someone that hasn't won 1 game against anyone for WVU and cr@p on one of the best coaches ever?

No reason to do that. Brown will be lucky to win as many games as DH did for WVU and its not likely to happen this year.

It complete rebuild time, but with Holgorsen WVU would have been in contention for a BIG 12 championship against the best of them.

Hopefully Neal Brown will eventually have WVU with more depth and playing for championships but its a long way to go at this point as far as all the "experts" are saying--and they have usually been pretty spot on of late.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

Dana finished pretty much how he recruited.
Not a bad coach not an elite one.

The question is does Neal Brown finish better than he recruits, the same level or below.

WV is anywhere from third to sixth in recruiting. On average maybe fourth ot fifth. But the ones in their neighborhood both have future CHoF football coaches in Oklahoma State and TCU.
You must recruit better than those schools. Going to be difficult to expect to outcoach Gundy and Patterson.

Even at 7-6 Texas was a much better all around team in 2017. The problem was sporadic QB play. Went from slightly above average to below average all season.
Difference in 2018 was average to great QB play that covered up the drop on defense. The 2017 team was a Top 10 defense in terms of efficiency. Dominated a great Oklahoma State offense and held them to 13 points.
They got pretty decent QB play in WV mainly because your offense couldn't move the ball.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Holgs was 4-3 against Texas.

Bottom line Holgs averaged a 7-6 record with bowl losses included. Glad you enjoy a .500 team. Toughest conference or not he only beat the bottom feeders for his 7 years in Big 12.

2012 Conference Wins (4-5)
4-5 Baylor (5)
5-4 Texas (3)
3-6 ISU (9)
0-9 Kansas (10)

2013 Conference Wins (2-7)
7-2 OSU (3)
2-7 TCU (8)

2014 Conference Wins (5-4)
1-8 Kansas (9)
2-7 Texas Tech (8)
8-1 Baylor (1) Destroyed any hope of Big 12 in Playoffs. Showed how weak the B12 was 2014
4-5 OSU (7)
0-9 ISU (10)

2015 Conference Wins (4-5)
4-5 Texas Tech (6)
4-5 Texas (7)
0-9 Kansas (10)
2-7 ISU (9)

2016 Conference Wins (7-2) - lost OU and OSU. Games that mattered
6-3 KSU (4)
4-5 TCU (5)
3-6 Texas (6)
3-6 TTU (7)
3-6 Baylor (8)
2-7 ISU (9)
1-8 Kansas (10)

2017 Conference Wins (5-4)
0-9 Kansas (10)
1-8 Baylor (9)
3-6 Texas Tech (8)
5-4 (ISU) (7)
5-4 KSU (5)


2018 Conference Wins (6-3)
3-6 KSU (7)
3-6 Texas Tech (8)
1-8 Kansas (10)
4-5 Baylor (6)
7-2 Texas (2)
4-5 TCU (5)

Couldn't win when it mattered most. He had the talent to finish 3rd or 4th every season and failed. He had the talent to win the Big 12 conference in 2012, 2017, 2018 and failed by falling apart when it mattered most. Constantly blew huge leads.

I believe you want Brown to fail miserably at WVU.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

Neal Brown's failure will be based on his expectations.
If you don't think playing in a bowl game is good enough for West Virginia every year and competiting for a Big 12 Championship every few years than it will be hard for any coach except the very best to not be a failure at West Virginia.

Nothing wrong with wanting the best coach at West Virginia. I think every program wants that but finding that coach is harder said than done.
Might be Neal Brown. Who knows.

If Brown averages 7-8 wins at WV for the next 7 years according to what you are saying he is a failure.

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

Bottom line Holgorsen was one of the best coaches EVER at WVU.

He was focused, disciplined and tough.

He was faced with taking a down program left from the previous coach into the toughest league to win in the country which included lots of travel in planes for large football players and against the most highly ranked teams WVU has ever played, in a conference where everyone plays everyone else so someone has to lose.

Now, some want to celebrate someone that hasn't won 1 game against anyone for WVU and cr@p on one of the best coaches ever?

No reason to do that. Brown will be lucky to win as many games as DH did for WVU and its not likely to happen this year.

It complete rebuild time, but with Holgorsen WVU would have been in contention for a BIG 12 championship against the best of them.

Hopefully Neal Brown will eventually have WVU with more depth and playing for championships but its a long way to go at this point as far as all the "experts" are saying--and they have usually been pretty spot on of late.

Refer to WVUAllen's post breaking down Dana's wins since you are so fact oriented.

Did you think DH truly had WVU on a path to compete for the Big 12? After 8 seasons, the last was the only one where WVU was in contention. I don't recall WVU ever improving much after September, but recall plenty of swoons. His teams frequently had breakdowns in discipline such as poor blocking techniques by receivers, stupid penalties (like the one that negated a huge run against OU), and awful tackling fundamentals. Sure people like to ignore the woeful defense because Dana is an offensive minded coach. Yet he is responsible for that as well and if the one he delegates that to can't get the job done it is the HC's responsibility to change that. Seems Bill Stewart got a lot of flak, and rightly so, for an anemic offense despite great weapons when Mullen was the OC. But then when the "good team" of OSU as you deemed them is down 3 scores at the half, you let it slide that the offensive minded guy with a loaded roster suddenly can't score more than 10 points or even sustain a drive against the defense that gave up 31 points already? You defend his bowl losses because of losing QB's, but whose responsibility is it that the cupboard not be bare? I don't recall WVU becoming completely toothless when Hales had to play for Marshall or Jarrett Brown for Pat White.

Ultimately, DH had big problems at QB this year which always spells doom for his teams. Houston offered 5 years, 20 million guaranteed which you would be stupid to match given the culmination of 8 years was to finish 4th due to 2 losses (OSU and ISU) that were winnable games. And DH would be stupid not to take such a lucrative, guaranteed contract. Why Houston is willing to spend that kind of money when no other power 5 school was sniffing this guy is beyond me. I'm not, and most board members you are maligning are not, ordaining Brown as the greatest coach ever. We just saw the ceiling for Dana as HC at WVU was a season like 2018. We feel that the reason for that was his aloof nature and sacrificing fundamentals for flash. We think that turnover after a coaching change is inevitable even at the blue blood level and accept that us non elite programs have to go through a rebuild after a coaching change be it 3-8 with RR or the embarrassing opening season loss to ECU with Stewart. We think Brown has a better chance with his approach of bringing in guys and developing them into 3+ year players which is what programs that don't take in the top high school athletes have to do to be competitive. But, ultimately we think that even though Brown may not even turn out to be as good a HC as Dana was, at least there is hope for better as Dana was a known commodity with a known ceiling which was not high enough for a Big 12 championship.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Neal Brown's failure will be based on his expectations.
If you don't think playing in a bowl game is good enough for West Virginia every year and competiting for a Big 12 Championship every few years than it will be hard for any coach except the very best to not be a failure at West Virginia.

Nothing wrong with wanting the best coach at West Virginia. I think every program wants that but finding that coach is harder said than done.
Might be Neal Brown. Who knows.

If Brown averages 7-8 wins at WV for the next 7 years according to what you are saying he is a failure.

Don't you think every coach in America failure will be based on expectations. So you're saying Texas fans will be happy to go 8-5 or 7-6 with bowl losses every year.

According to what you're saying is every coach will be a failure.

No reason why Neal Brown shouldn't average 8 wins a season. Especially if WVU would cut back on playing 11 P5 schools out of 12. Should have 1 P5 and 2 G5 teams with no FCS teams.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

Defensive Backs are taught the strip drill. Even back in the 1980's.
The tip drill and the strip drill were something practiced everyday. Recently DBs are taught to go for the ball even before wrapping up. We been through this before. When you are teaching players to go for the ball there are going to be more missed tackles.

Your new DC has even said he is going to create turnovers. Aggressive playcalling and DBs who go for the ball.
Don't think this is going to change.


Since Texas recruits better than everyone else and invest into their program they will have higher expectations.
It is different. Worse thing you can do is win at Texas. Tom Herman may find this out.
DKR told Mack Brown that winning at Texas doesn't become fun anymore because everyone has that expectation that they are going to win every year. The wins become normal and the losses become big deals.

 

[WVUALLEN]

WVU played some excellent teams those two years to end the season, and lost QBs too.

WVU has to get better players all around.

So far WVU has lost numerous quality players under the new HC and has won nothing, and Holgorsen left on his own, WVU didn't fire him.

Had he stayed, WVU would be in contention for a BIG 12 championship.

Now? Starting over with no idea where things will eventually go, in a critical period of time just before conferences begin negotiating rights again.

Spin the bottle Buckey boy.

Nine departures, two were gone before Neal Brown ever arrived - offensive linemen Matt Jones and Dontae Angus. The former was a starter last year, but the lowest-graded starter of anyone on the offense, per PFF, and he was leaving the program regardless of who the head coach was. The latter has not played a down for the Mountaineers, and had left the team months before, despite not showing up in the portal until January.

So we're down to seven, which may seem like it's still a large number, but it's not. First off, did we all forget the previous years? There were a total of fifteen - FIFTEEN - scholarship players that that left the team during 2018 calendar year. There was no coaching change. There was no turmoil. There was no academic misconduct. Fifteen - sixteen if you count Jordan Adams, who left and then came back (before leaving again this off season) - scholarship players just up and left the team, including multiple players who were expected to not only start but make a big impact in 2018. That included defensive linemen Lamonte McDougle Adam Shuler, and wide receiver Reggie Roberson.

To say this off season's attrition has been abnormal or the sign of problems within the program or on the coaching staff is disingenuous. It is abnormal, because to have only seven departures after a complete staff overhaul is remarkable.

And take a closer look at those seven. That includes four players who were not going to be in the two-deep come the fall. So now we're focused on Marcus Simms, Kenny Robinson, and Derek Pitts. All three of those guys would not only have made a contribution, but were starters. Key starters. Anyone telling you differently is also being disingenuous. However, the first two of those departures had nothing to do with the new coaching staff, and everything to do with the academic misconduct that's been discussed incessantly.

So Buckey quit spinning the bottle hoping WVU fails under new head coach. Your boy friend Holgs has moved on. Try to do the same and go cheer for Houston. Numb nuts!

 

[OlegeezEER]

Oklahoma State won a bowl that year. That's a good team.

Utah won a bowl.

Texas has been getting better and Holgorsen beat them a good number of times including last year.

BIG 12 teams were 7-6 in large part because they played in the toughest league in the country. A ten team league where everyone plays everyone else is going to produce losses. A 7-6 team in the BIG 12 might win 8 or 9 at least in the other power conferences. When everyone plays everyone, someone MUST lose.

If one team in the BIG 12 goes 9-0, then NO other team can in the regular season.

If one team goes 9-0 and another 8-1, NO other team can win 8 games.

Its a tough league with alot of balance top to bottom--moreso than other P5s, with a brutal schedule to win. Maybe some of you will finally understand that this year.

A team that is 7-6 is not a good team regardless of conference. In the old days a team that went 7-5 wouldn't go to a bowl game. Mississippi State was 5-7 and went to a bowl game a few years ago and won does that make them a good team? If you ask an sec fan they will tell you they are the best. If you ask a Big ten fan they will tell you there the best. If you ask an Acc fan they will tell you there the best. If you ask the media gurus they will tell you the sec is the best. You making the statement that the big 12 is the best league is your subjective opinion which is not shared by the majority. If you look at the performance of the Big 12 in the last 10 years nothing supports it as being the toughest conference.