Right. And that's my whole point. They are going to get $4-6 million from the conference network, not $8-9 million like you claimed.
Expansion
- Thread starter Buckaineer
- Start date
Right. And that's my whole point. They are going to get $4-6 million from the conference network, not $8-9 million like you claimed.
No, they are going to get $6 -$10 million apiece per year from a BIG 12 network. That will be $4 to $6 million per school per year more than what they get now for tier 3 content.
No, they are not getting $6-10 million from the Big 12 network. If they get $4-6 million over what they get now.......that's $4-6 million. The $6-10 figure is something you are completely making up. The only extra money is the money that comes from the Big 12 Network......That's $4-6 million, just like Boren said.
Wrong again- as you argued yourself after i brought it up, if there were a BIG 12 network there wouldnt be tier 3 revenues anymore held by schools. The money and product from tier 3 become part of the network, that money doesnt dissapear-as Boren mentioned the network will add $4 to $6 million to what schools earned previously. If you earned $2 million for tier 3, now youll earn $6-8 million in a network. If you earned $4 miilion for tier 3, youll earn $8-10 million in a network.
opcorn:
But doesn't WVU cover that with a full share plus $6.6 mil from IMG? $29.6 + $6.6 million = $36.2 million. With the correct expansion, could WVU top that with a Big 12 network? I'm a simple man, in your estimation from what you have researched what would you reasonably believe? Are we talking $40 million?
No, again, you are wrong. Here's why.
You aren't accounting for expenses. You are not factoring in ANY expenses, and you simply have to do that. Until you factor in expenses, your figures simply are not accurate.
Go back to my Big Ten example. The Big Ten got $7.6 million for the BTN. Are you saying the Big Ten gets zero Tier 3 rights in that figure? According to your own formula, the Big Ten should get $12.2 million just off of subscriptions fees. That's not even accounting for the Tier 3 rights, or the advertising. So the Big Ten schools should be getting even more than $12 million. Problem is, the actual number for everything came in at $7.6 million. Well there's my point. You see how much is coming out of that for expenses. That's going to take a big chunk out of that $8-10 million figure you calculated, and you simply aren't taking into account how much expenses are going to be.
Last edited:
It's like having a discussion with a brick wall. Seriously haven't met anyone on a board so wrong and incapable of comprehension.
Here for an example of the mind numbing stupidity of your argument is an article from the Business of College Sports. There are many such articles out there. Notice the title:
Top-50 Highest Athletics Department Revenues
So, according to you these athletic depts. don't exist. I mean, how could they, after all everyone KNOWS what they are reporting isn't PROFIT!! They have EXPENSES that in some cases eat all of those revenues!!! So that means the revenues never existed!!!!!
That is asinine. Of course they have revenues and of course they exist. And so would BIG 12 schools revenues under the model you are so desperate to disprove but can't because there's nothing wrong with the hypothesis or the math.
Then you go back again to the ignorant Big Ten discussion? What about this do you not understand?
You keep saying "see, they really got $7.6 million rather than the number that comes out if we use your formula". Of course it doesn't come out to the same number as my formula-- BECAUSE THE NUMBERS THAT WENT INTO CREATING $7.6 IN ACTUAL REVENUES ARE NOT THE SAME AS MY FORMULA!!!!!!!!!
I bolded that because its not getting through. You are getting a different result BECAUSE THE RESULTS ARE CREATED WITH TWO DIFFERENT SETS OF NUMBERS!!!!! again, bolded for emphasis.
Since you've gone over this same dead argument over and over and over it's clear you cannot understand basic math or much about anything so there's no point in continuing this stupid discussion with you-I'm moving on to discussion with others. Of course we know you and your less than average thought processes are undoubtedly going to continue ranting false negativity about the BIG 12 and running around the internet spreading the stupidity and that is a shame. It's frightening someone so uninformed is even allowed to post on forums and is able to fool others with such dimwitted erroneous thought.
No, again $6.6 million is not what WVU gets for tier 3 television rights.
Here's all the items included in that $6.6 million
The 12-year agreement, guaranteed to pay to WVU more than $80 million over 12 years, plus revenue-sharing opportunities over the length of the partnership, includes management of local game broadcasts and coaches’ shows for radio and television; publications such as media guides and schedules; digital platforms including social media and web sites; corporate sponsorships; at-event promotions and game day hospitality; stadium and venue signage including scoreboards and ribbon boards; and advertising in university-owned and leased athletic facilities.
But the discussion is referring to just the management of local game broadcasts for television--NOT all the other amounts. It's not known exactly what portion of the $6.6 million was just for television for WVU because the university doesn't release that info --but its not the entire amount--closer to half that amount.
But, right now schools in the Big Ten or SEC have networks, and if they get say $5 million or $7 million for an SECn or BTN share--that is ONLY tv product. Its a combination of games that would be tier two and tier 3.
But these schools can also sell coaches shows for radio, publications such as media guides and schedules, digital platforms, corporate sponsorships; at event promotions and game day hospitality; stadium and venue signage including scoreboards and ribbon boards; and advertising in university-owned and leased athletic facilities.
In the BIG 12, the tv contract pays for tier one and tier two and then tier 3 is school controlled. The LHN is tier 3 school controlled content as an example. WVU and TCU receivedf $23 million last year from the BIG 12.
Thanks, Buck. I understand that, but given the information from Boren and assuming it is correct, what would you estimate WVU's take to be in 2016 WITH a Big 12 network and IMG controlling the rest? I realize it is simply an educated guess, but it would be ballpark figure I can wrap my mind around. WVU gets a full share for 2016.
Ballpark of what WVU's next payout will be including their BIG 12 payout and the IMG total payout
Very close to $30 million from the conference plus another $4.6 million in tier 3 rights fees for an approx. total of $34 -$35 million.
With total IMG payout it will be higher than that.
To follow up on your earlier question Michaelwalkerbr--If the BIG 12 had a network -based on Boren's projections, WVU would earn from $38-$41 million in payouts from the conference and the conference network combined for the next payout. They would also continue to have a deal with IMG or similar entity and would probably get another $4 to $5 million per year from that based on what other schools get (i.e. NC State has a radio, signage etc. deal worth around $4.9 mil per year)
Looks like the remodeled and expanded training room will be finished sooner than later. What does that leave that directly affects the players?
Don't know what percentage of the IMG contract is used to pay down the debt for the training facility.
A $75 million bond and $25 million in MAC gifts all went to or are going to athletic facilities improvements along with $6 million from the IMG contract according to reports.
Puskar Center Athletic Training Room
The new football training room will allow us to improve the quality of care provided to those student-athletes needing rehabilitation from injuries as well as assist us in treating and preventing future injuries.
The Training Room Project is designed to provide our student-athletes with additional space and enhanced equipment needed for care and prevention. The renovation will expand our existing training room from 4,450 square feet to over 8,600 square feet. The updated facility will include a new hydrotherapy room, expanded treatment area, rehab area, taping station, renovated Swim-Ex therapy pool and expanded office space for trainers and doctors. The remodeled facility will be a cornerstone for recruiting top tier student-athletes by showing our commitment and concern for their well-being.
The training room is apparently being financed by the MAC. They had raised half of the funds a few months ago.
So if the $4 million or so for the athletic training room all came from the MAC, then the money from the conference and the IMG contract would be untouched.
Personal insults just show your argument can't stand on its own merit.
You keep missing my point. Your formula doesn't take into account expenses. Therefore, the amount of money the Big 12 schools actually get is going to be less than what you calculated, because your calculations are BEFORE expenses. Let me respond to your statement in bold:
THE NUMBERS THAT WENT INTO CREATING $7.6 IN ACTUAL REVENUES ARE NOT THE SAME AS MY FORMULA!!!!!!!!!
That's exactly the point. The actual numbers end up being less than the formula. So that proves my point. The amount the Big 12 schools get is going to be less than what you figured, because the actual numbers are going to be smaller than the numbers you used. That's because the Big 12 is going to have to pay expenses before it distributes the remaining money to the schools. Therefore, the actual amount of money the schools get from the Big 12 network is going to be less than the $8-10 million you calculated, because the network will take out expenses before they pay the schools.
Regarding the Big Ten numbers, the relevance there is that the Big Ten numbers are the amount left over after the network pays expenses. The same thing will happen with the Big 12.
Buck, the MAC is in overdrive. It appears to me that their goal is to be the largest single source of revenue for WVU athletics every year. They do expect perks for the major contributors of course, but I say kudos to them. If you want to compete with the big dogs, go first class everywhere you can!
I wonder about a person who knows what a discussion with a brick wall would be like.
It's almost disturbing.
It's almost disturbing.
Yeah, well.."All in all you're just another brick in the wall!" Mr. Floyd said so. So I guess it would be like trying to have a meaningful discussion with you.
I watch you and Buck go at it... ..make no mistake that both of you continue to look foolish.
The fact is... ...the only way either of you can make a reasonable point is when you're (endlessly) debating a brick wall. ...gaining debate victories that seem as a source of pride in your world.
The fact is... ...the only way either of you can make a reasonable point is when you're (endlessly) debating a brick wall. ...gaining debate victories that seem as a source of pride in your world.
Foolish is in the mind of the beholder. There are no victories, nor are there losses in a debate about future events. It is only an exchange of ideas.
Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto was absolutely convinced a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor would keep the US out of World War II by breaking their will to fight. He was the one who was surprised. Debates are neither a source of pride or disappointment in my world. It is merely information gathering and entertainment.
Nothing any of us say here will have any outcome on the future of the Big 12 or WVU football. But this time of year it's all we have. Try not to take it personally. It's not.
I'll try not to take it personally...if you attempt to realize comparing an NCAA forum discussion to World War II is moronic. ...yet showing how serious you're taking it.
We're good. I'm making sport of the seriousness. Please don't use name calling you wouldn't use in a Kroger parking lot. I teased you with the Pink Floyd song, but did not question your intelligence. We may have different viewpoints and even types of humor, but I am certainly not a moron and I do not believe you are. It does not bother me if someone else's viewpoint seems totally ludicrous to me. They just may end up being right.
I don't end up 'being right'... ..I start that way.
--------
I'm more of an ant than a lion though. ....both have bite but one is more of immediate concern than the other....
--------
I'm more of an ant than a lion though. ....both have bite but one is more of immediate concern than the other....
More amunition as to why the BIG 12 must get into more recruiting areas than just Texas. From FOX:
Among that state's Top 25 prospects in the class of 2011, as ranked by Scout.com, only three signed outside of the state and/or outside the Big 12. Five years later, 13 of the 25 signed outside the Big 12, and only one of those signed with A&M. Remarkably, Ole Miss signed more four- or five-stars from Texas than Oklahoma did. All of this continues a larger talent drain in the Big 12 that Jon Solomon of CBS Sports recently chronicled; that conference has seen a substantial dropoff in both the rankings of its incoming recruits and its number of NFL Draft exports.
Among that state's Top 25 prospects in the class of 2011, as ranked by Scout.com, only three signed outside of the state and/or outside the Big 12. Five years later, 13 of the 25 signed outside the Big 12, and only one of those signed with A&M. Remarkably, Ole Miss signed more four- or five-stars from Texas than Oklahoma did. All of this continues a larger talent drain in the Big 12 that Jon Solomon of CBS Sports recently chronicled; that conference has seen a substantial dropoff in both the rankings of its incoming recruits and its number of NFL Draft exports.
And from that mailbag linked above, here is what Mandel thinks of the BIG 12's expansion likelihood:
"The best thing that could possibly happen for Houston is if Herman stays for a couple more years and wins at such a level that it becomes impossible for the Big 12 -- which will expand eventually -- to say no. "
"The best thing that could possibly happen for Houston is if Herman stays for a couple more years and wins at such a level that it becomes impossible for the Big 12 -- which will expand eventually -- to say no. "
Yea, I don't care how good Houston is, I can't see the BIG12 adding another TexA$$ team.
I am not one for shutting down debates, but at some point topdecktiger and Buck just need to agree to disagree with this point. Three pages of the exact same argument is just a bit over the top.
If the BIG 12 doesn't do anything in the near term and Houston continues to get better, or if the conference grew larger than 12 teams it might make sense. Can't see Houston right now since expanding the footprint is necessary.
There is no argument. There is tiger trying to debunk a hypothetical model for a BIG 12 network with unrelated info and numbers that have nothing to do with one another, and there is me presenting information for discussion.
As for me-I'm not going to stop posting because someone doesn't like the information I present, or someone can't comprehend simple math or information. I don't like trolls and posters who do nothing but try to derail threads, but they surely aren't stopping. Funny, none of you is concerned about them-of course some of you ARE them so......Worry about yourself and your posts.
The Florida teams have to at least be in the debate. Adding Ohio and Florida makes a lot of sense if you are trying to improve recruiting and to add markets as well.
Some tweets from Greg Swaim about BIG 12 expansion:
GREG SWAIM SHOW @GSwaim
GREG SWAIM SHOW Retweeted Roger Cox
Don't know exactly who they'll add, but now hearing the momentum is working towards expansion.
GREG SWAIM SHOW @GSwaim
I know who the favorites are for #Big12 expansion, but the metrics will dictate a lot. #BYU #UConn #UCBearcats #UCF #USF #UHCougs
GREG SWAIM SHOW @GSwaim
GREG SWAIM SHOW Retweeted JR McKee
I honestly don't know what metrics say...at least not yet.
GREG SWAIM SHOW added,
JR McKee @jr_mckee
@GSwaim and in your view who are the top 4 in those metrics?
9:29 PM - 10 Feb 2016
GREG SWAIM SHOW @GSwaim GREG SWAIM SHOW Retweeted Roger Cox
Don't know exactly who they'll add, but now hearing the momentum is working towards expansion.
GREG SWAIM SHOW @GSwaim I know who the favorites are for #Big12 expansion, but the metrics will dictate a lot. #BYU #UConn #UCBearcats #UCF #USF #UHCougs
GREG SWAIM SHOW @GSwaim GREG SWAIM SHOW Retweeted JR McKee
I honestly don't know what metrics say...at least not yet.
GREG SWAIM SHOW added,
JR McKee @jr_mckee
@GSwaim and in your view who are the top 4 in those metrics?
9:29 PM - 10 Feb 2016
Yes, the best market in recruiting outside of Texas is Fla. Adding Fla and possibly an ohio team would greatly close the canyon between the BIG12 and SEC
Hey buck, I think the tone of my message was very polite, but in-light of your reply FU.
