Dems may try and use Endangered Species Act to stop the wall

[WVPATX]

What do Dem have against border security? We know we have tons of drugs crossing the border. We have a flow of migrants from Central and South America escorted through Mexico to our border. We have Mexicans crossing illegally. Yes, we have criminals crossing the border often after they have been deported (e.g. the murder of Kate Steinle). We live in an age of terrorism and the threat always exists of them bringing very dangerous weapons across the border.

I can't imagine why the Dems are so against border security. The wall is not perfect, but will help especially with large quantities of drugs. Additional agents and surveillance, including drones, will certainly help. Shouldn't' we know who enters the country and decide for ourselves if we want them to enter?

http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/26/d...gered-species-act-suits-to-block-trumps-wall/

 

[moe]

What do Dem have against border security? We know we have tons of drugs crossing the border. We have a flow of migrants from Central and South America escorted through Mexico to our border. We have Mexicans crossing illegally. Yes, we have criminals crossing the border often after they have been deported (e.g. the murder of Kate Steinle). We live in an age of terrorism and the threat always exists of them bringing very dangerous weapons across the border.

I can't imagine why the Dems are so against border security. The wall is not perfect, but will help especially with large quantities of drugs. Additional agents and surveillance, including drones, will certainly help. Shouldn't' we know who enters the country and decide for ourselves if we want them to enter?

http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/26/d...gered-species-act-suits-to-block-trumps-wall/

Conspiracies are everywhere! Other construction projects must adhere to environmental laws, avoid sensitive ecological habitats, etc., why should this one be any different?

 

[dave]

Conspiracies are everywhere! Other construction projects must adhere to environmental laws, avoid sensitive ecological habitats, etc., why should this one be any different?

National Security. No go sit down at the dunce table moron.

 

[atlkvb]

I can't imagine why the Dems are so against border security.

Because they don't want to lose the votes, illegal or otherwise.

 

[JMichael]

Why do conservatives make an illogical premise and then use that to support an argument. The premise of the remark is
What do Dem have against border security? Dem do not hate border security. EVERYONE agrees that border security is necessary. Arguing against a wall is not an indication that one hate border security. The wall idea is simply stupid, ugly, waste of money and a lot of other things. If the Govt has 15-30 billion laying around send to WV. We can use it.

 

[atlkvb]

Why do conservatives make an illogical premise and then use that to support an argument. The premise of the remark is
What do Dem have against border security? Dem do not hate border security. EVERYONE agrees that border security is necessary. Arguing against a wall is not an indication that one hate border security. The wall idea is simply stupid, ugly, waste of money and a lot of other things. If the Govt has 15-30 billion laying around send to WV. We can use it.

The Wall is being built because no one has been enforcing our existing Laws to control illegal immigration. We're trying to make it harder not easier to get into this country illegally. What is a "sanctuary city"?

If the current Laws on the books were being aggressively enforced, there'd be no need for a wall.

 

[moe]

The wall idea is simply stupid, ugly, waste of money and a lot of other things.

This. You'd think that they'd consult with the top security experts regarding the best way to achieve the admin's goals. I believe (and heard that) that there are better ways to secure the border in areas where there is no wall than to extend the existing wall. I believe that Trump is more interested in building a wall (for political purposes) than securing the border in the most effective and cost effective way possible. If anyone was ever all about appearances, it is DJT.

 

[dave]

It is good to see after 8 years of doing nothing about border security that the left is finally interested in what security experts think.

 

[atlkvb]

It is good to see after 8 years of doing nothing about border security that the left is finally interested in what security experts think.

Exactly! Why were those folks allowed to just pour over that border like we were being invaded? No one was talking about stricter enforcement then?

Now all of a sudden because Trump wants to stop it, we need to find more "cost effective" ways to cut off the overflow of illegals trying to come in.

Give me a break.

 

[countryroads89]

National Security. No go sit down at the dunce table moron.

Still required to comply with all federal regulations. The irony of you calling someone moron.

dave in the striped shirt

 

[dave]

Still required to comply with all federal regulations. The irony of you calling someone moron.

dave in the striped shirt

You should probably stop confusing real life with fantasy.

 

[dave]

According to the Sierra Club......

Real ID Waiver Authority Compromises Our Borderlands

The unprecedented power granted to the Secretary of Homeland Security (DHS) by Section 102 of the Real ID Act has been used multiple times to "waive in their entirety" thirty-seven federal laws. Although the Secretary of DHS is unelected appointee, with the stroke of a pen one individual has the ability to dismiss decades of protective laws passed by Congress and signed by presidents, all to circumvent local, state, and federal laws when constructing border walls. The waiver provision of the Real ID Act is a grave threat to the checks and balances within the United States Constitution. Furthermore, continuing to allow this type of precedent to stand is a threat to environmental protection across the country, not only on the border.

Federal laws waived by DHS for construction of border wall include:

• National Environmental Policy Act
• Endangered Species Act
• Clean Water Act
• National Historic Preservation Act
• Migratory Bird Treaty Act
• Clean Air Act
• Archaeological Resources Protection Act
• Safe Drinking Water Act
• Noise Control Act
• Solid Waste Disposal Act
• Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act
• Archaeological and Historic Preservation Act
• Antiquities Act
• Historic Sites, Buildings, and Antiquities Act
• Wild and Scenic Rivers Act
• Farmland Protection Policy Act
• Coastal Zone Management Act
• Wilderness Act
• Federal Land Policy and Management Act
• National Wildlife Refuge System Administration Act
• Fish and Wildlife Act of 1956
• Fish and Wildlife Coordination Act
• Administrative Procedure Act
• Otay Mountain Wilderness Act of 1999
• California Desert Protection Act
• National Park Service Organic Act
• National Park Service General Authorities Act
• National Parks and Recreation Act of 1978
• Arizona Desert Wilderness Act
• Rivers and Harbors Act of 1899
• Eagle Protection Act
• Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act
• American Indian Religious Freedom Act
• Religious Freedom Restoration Act
• National Forest Management Act of 1976
• Multiple Use and Sustained Yield Act of 1960
• Federal Grants and Cooperative Agreements Act of 1977

 

[atlkvb]

According to the Sierra Club......

Real ID Waiver Authority Compromises Our Borderlands

The unprecedented power granted to the Secretary of Homeland Security (DHS) by Section 102 of the Real ID Act has been used multiple times to "waive in their entirety" thirty-seven federal laws. Although the Secretary of DHS is unelected appointee, with the stroke of a pen one individual has the ability to dismiss decades of protective laws passed by Congress and signed by presidents, all to circumvent local, state, and federal laws when constructing border walls. The waiver provision of the Real ID Act is a grave threat to the checks and balances within the United States Constitution. Furthermore, continuing to allow this type of precedent to stand is a threat to environmental protection across the country, not only on the border.

Federal laws waived by DHS for construction of border wall include:

• National Environmental Policy Act
• Endangered Species Act
• Clean Water Act
• National Historic Preservation Act
• Migratory Bird Treaty Act
• Clean Air Act
• Archaeological Resources Protection Act
• Safe Drinking Water Act
• Noise Control Act
• Solid Waste Disposal Act
• Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act
• Archaeological and Historic Preservation Act
• Antiquities Act
• Historic Sites, Buildings, and Antiquities Act
• Wild and Scenic Rivers Act
• Farmland Protection Policy Act
• Coastal Zone Management Act
• Wilderness Act
• Federal Land Policy and Management Act
• National Wildlife Refuge System Administration Act
• Fish and Wildlife Act of 1956
• Fish and Wildlife Coordination Act
• Administrative Procedure Act
• Otay Mountain Wilderness Act of 1999
• California Desert Protection Act
• National Park Service Organic Act
• National Park Service General Authorities Act
• National Parks and Recreation Act of 1978
• Arizona Desert Wilderness Act
• Rivers and Harbors Act of 1899
• Eagle Protection Act
• Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act
• American Indian Religious Freedom Act
• Religious Freedom Restoration Act
• National Forest Management Act of 1976
• Multiple Use and Sustained Yield Act of 1960
• Federal Grants and Cooperative Agreements Act of 1977

If you can waive it, you can build it.

If you can build it, they won't come.

 

[MichiganHerd]

Still required to comply with all federal regulations. The irony of you calling someone moron.

Do you ever become tired of being wrong? Do you have no pride?

 

[countryroads89]

According to the Sierra Club......

Real ID Waiver Authority Compromises Our Borderlands

The unprecedented power granted to the Secretary of Homeland Security (DHS) by Section 102 of the Real ID Act has been used multiple times to "waive in their entirety" thirty-seven federal laws. Although the Secretary of DHS is unelected appointee, with the stroke of a pen one individual has the ability to dismiss decades of protective laws passed by Congress and signed by presidents, all to circumvent local, state, and federal laws when constructing border walls. The waiver provision of the Real ID Act is a grave threat to the checks and balances within the United States Constitution. Furthermore, continuing to allow this type of precedent to stand is a threat to environmental protection across the country, not only on the border.

Federal laws waived by DHS for construction of border wall include:

• National Environmental Policy Act
• Endangered Species Act
• Clean Water Act
• National Historic Preservation Act
• Migratory Bird Treaty Act
• Clean Air Act
• Archaeological Resources Protection Act
• Safe Drinking Water Act
• Noise Control Act
• Solid Waste Disposal Act
• Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act
• Archaeological and Historic Preservation Act
• Antiquities Act
• Historic Sites, Buildings, and Antiquities Act
• Wild and Scenic Rivers Act
• Farmland Protection Policy Act
• Coastal Zone Management Act
• Wilderness Act
• Federal Land Policy and Management Act
• National Wildlife Refuge System Administration Act
• Fish and Wildlife Act of 1956
• Fish and Wildlife Coordination Act
• Administrative Procedure Act
• Otay Mountain Wilderness Act of 1999
• California Desert Protection Act
• National Park Service Organic Act
• National Park Service General Authorities Act
• National Parks and Recreation Act of 1978
• Arizona Desert Wilderness Act
• Rivers and Harbors Act of 1899
• Eagle Protection Act
• Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act
• American Indian Religious Freedom Act
• Religious Freedom Restoration Act
• National Forest Management Act of 1976
• Multiple Use and Sustained Yield Act of 1960
• Federal Grants and Cooperative Agreements Act of 1977

Where do you get this nonsense? Would you care to wager that they will not comply with NEPA?

 

[bornaneer]

The wall idea is simply ugly, waste of money and a lot of other things. If the Govt has 15-30 billion laying around send to WV. We can use it.

I hate those ugly fukin walls that we see built along highways.......I like to view natural beauty when I am driving.....not those ugly fukin walls. And hell..... I rather see that money spent to have a few potholes fixed on WV roads.

 

[dave]

Where do you get this nonsense? Would you care to wager that they will not comply with NEPA?

If you read the post you know where I got it. NEPA can be waived with a pen and a phone.

 

[Boomboom521]

Why do conservatives make an illogical premise and then use that to support an argument. The premise of the remark is
What do Dem have against border security? Dem do not hate border security. EVERYONE agrees that border security is necessary. Arguing against a wall is not an indication that one hate border security. The wall idea is simply stupid, ugly, waste of money and a lot of other things. If the Govt has 15-30 billion laying around send to WV. We can use it.

It's the GOP narrative. They've been honing their ability to use the us versus them narrative since the days of the big bad communist. There's always some anti-American, selfish, money driven motive behind the liberal action. From protecting the environment to minority rights....it's always about manipulation. GOP is always the party of the pure, tough American, and the Democrats are the party of all groups against American values....these days its the liberals.

 

[countryroads89]

If you read the post you know where I got it. NEPA can be waived with a pen and a phone.

"Because NEPA noncompliance cases often include requests for injunctive relief, courts have a duty to weigh the public interest in national security against the public interest in the environment when deciding whether to grant relief. The Legislature, though, purposefully excluded such an exemption from the statute."

Here's how the conversation goes: is this a National Security situation? Yes. How long will it take to build the wall? Years. And the wall has been non-existent for years? yes. Are there any imminent threats of invasion resulting from the wall not being in place? no.

Judge's ruling: comply with NEPA, ESA, NHPA, etc. etc.

Thanks for showing us once again, you are a moron and love to spout out shit that you have no clue about, while calling others moron, fuktard, libtard, idiot, dunce....

 

[dave]

It's the GOP narrative. They've been honing their ability to use the us versus them narrative since the days of the big bad communist. There's always some anti-American, selfish, money driven motive behind the liberal action. From protecting the environment to minority rights....it's always about manipulation. GOP is always the party of the pure, tough American, and the Democrats are the party of all groups against American values....these days its the liberals.

I wonder where the GOP learned it from? What is the narrative anytime someone wants to try and sure up social security or medicaid?

 

[dave]

"Because NEPA noncompliance cases often include requests for injunctive relief, courts have a duty to weigh the public interest in national security against the public interest in the environment when deciding whether to grant relief. The Legislature, though, purposefully excluded such an exemption from the statute."

Here's how the conversation goes: is this a National Security situation? Yes. How long will it take to build the wall? Years. And the wall has been non-existent for years? yes. Are there any imminent threats of invasion resulting from the wall not being in place? no.

Judge's ruling: comply with NEAP, ESA, NHPA, etc. etc.

Thanks for showing us once again, you are a moron and love to spout out shit that you have no clue about, while calling others moron, fuktard, libtard, idiot, dunce....

If only anything in that post was related to this.

Read some more...
----------------------------------------------------
Exemption from Environmental Laws

The border wall has attracted criticism in part because its construction was, and its continued operation is, exempt from important environmental and administrative laws, including the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA), the Endangered Species Act (ESA), The Clean Water Act (CWA), the Administrative Procedures Act (APA), and many others. Since the passage of the REAL ID Act in 2005, the Secretary of Homeland Security, has had the “the authority to waive, and shall waive, all laws such Secretary, in such Secretary’s sole discretion, determines necessary to ensure expeditious construction of the barriers and roads under this section.”
--------------------------------------------

This is the part where you pivot and change the argument because if you don't, you are going to look like a bigger fool.

 

[WVPATX]

Why do conservatives make an illogical premise and then use that to support an argument. The premise of the remark is
What do Dem have against border security? Dem do not hate border security. EVERYONE agrees that border security is necessary. Arguing against a wall is not an indication that one hate border security. The wall idea is simply stupid, ugly, waste of money and a lot of other things. If the Govt has 15-30 billion laying around send to WV. We can use it.

Respectfully, here is where you're wrong. You may not be against border security but I can promise you a large portion of your base is. And they make no qualms about being for open borders. This is from Clintons own campaign website:

(4) There’s no need to secure the border because it’s already “the most secure border we’ve ever had”

Even as tens of thousands of migrants continue to pour across our southern border, Clinton has declared that the border is “the most secure border we’ve ever had”– suggesting that she does not feel it is necessary to take additional actions to secure it. Clinton argues that since the border is already secure, it is time to give amnesty to the millions of migrants who have entered illegally.

“We have the most secure border we’ve ever had… The Republicans, the opponents, no longer have an argument,” Clinton said during a March CNN/Univision Democratic debate. “We enhanced the border security. That part of the work is done… Everybody who I know who has looked at it says it is OK. We have a secure border. There’s no need for this rhetoric and demagoguery that still is carried out on the Republican side. You’ve run out of excuses. Let’s move to comprehensive immigration reform with a path to citizenship.”

 

[WVPATX]

This. You'd think that they'd consult with the top security experts regarding the best way to achieve the admin's goals. I believe (and heard that) that there are better ways to secure the border in areas where there is no wall than to extend the existing wall. I believe that Trump is more interested in building a wall (for political purposes) than securing the border in the most effective and cost effective way possible. If anyone was ever all about appearances, it is DJT.

You were misstating trumps position. Trump is in favor of a wall but not in those areas were a wall is either unnecessary or where other options are better.

 

[countryroads89]

If only anything in that post was related to this.

Read some more...
----------------------------------------------------
Exemption from Environmental Laws

The border wall has attracted criticism in part because its construction was, and its continued operation is, exempt from important environmental and administrative laws, including the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA), the Endangered Species Act (ESA), The Clean Water Act (CWA), the Administrative Procedures Act (APA), and many others. Since the passage of the REAL ID Act in 2005, the Secretary of Homeland Security, has had the “the authority to waive, and shall waive, all laws such Secretary, in such Secretary’s sole discretion, determines necessary to ensure expeditious construction of the barriers and roads under this section.”
--------------------------------------------

This is the part where you pivot and change the argument because if you don't, you are going to look like a bigger fool.

You're quoting some web site and I'm quoting a law brief.

You saw it on the internet so it must be true.

Bonjour.

I love you man! You provide so much entertainment.

 

[Boomboom521]

I wonder where the GOP learned it from? What is the narrative anytime someone wants to try and sure up social security or medicaid?

That the big bad GOP corporate richly riches want to privatize it and leave the poor out in the cold.

 

[RichardPeterJohnson]

What do Dem have against border security? We know we have tons of drugs crossing the border. We have a flow of migrants from Central and South America escorted through Mexico to our border. We have Mexicans crossing illegally. Yes, we have criminals crossing the border often after they have been deported (e.g. the murder of Kate Steinle). We live in an age of terrorism and the threat always exists of them bringing very dangerous weapons across the border.

I can't imagine why the Dems are so against border security. The wall is not perfect, but will help especially with large quantities of drugs. Additional agents and surveillance, including drones, will certainly help. Shouldn't' we know who enters the country and decide for ourselves if we want them to enter?

http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/26/d...gered-species-act-suits-to-block-trumps-wall/

The wall is a giant waste of money and appeals to the wingnuts who think all life's problems have simple black and white solutions.

 

[moe]

Trump is in favor of a wall but not in those areas were a wall is either unnecessary or where other options are better

I hadn't seen that but if you say it's true, I'm sure that it is. Trump isn't big on details and all I've heard is that he wants to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it or some crazy rhetoric.

 

[countryroads89]

The wall is a giant waste of money and appeals to the wingnuts who think all life's problems have simply black and white solutions.

There are no such things as ladders either.

 

[WVPATX]

It's the GOP narrative. They've been honing their ability to use the us versus them narrative since the days of the big bad communist. There's always some anti-American, selfish, money driven motive behind the liberal action. From protecting the environment to minority rights....it's always about manipulation. GOP is always the party of the pure, tough American, and the Democrats are the party of all groups against American values....these days its the liberals.

In this case Boom, the Democrats are all about votes. Again as I posted yesterday if this border crossings were comprised of white Europeans that 80% of the time vote GOP, the Dems would've had that wall built 20 years ago. And the GOP elite are no better. The Chamber of Commerce another big business interests want cheap labor.

 

[WVPATX]

I hadn't seen that but if you say it's true, I'm sure that it is. Trump isn't big on details and all I've heard is that he wants to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it or some crazy rhetoric.

I don't think it is crazy at all. I wall is going up along the border. It will not cover the entire border. And Mexico will pay for it. They may not write us a check, but they will pay for it.

 

[dave]

You're quoting some web site and I'm quoting a law brief.

You saw it on the internet so it must be true.

Bonjour.

I love you man! You provide so much entertainment.

What was not factual in the excerpt? Read up on the REAL ID ACT 2005.

Bottom line is that there are no NEPA or ESA laws that cannot be waived.

 

[atlkvb]

It's the GOP narrative. They've been honing their ability to use the us versus them narrative since the days of the big bad communist. There's always some anti-American, selfish, money driven motive behind the liberal action. From protecting the environment to minority rights....it's always about manipulation. GOP is always the party of the pure, tough American, and the Democrats are the party of all groups against American values....these days its the liberals.

Hey boom, if the Left, Teacher's unions and Democrats want to "help" kids trapped in failing schools get better educations, why do they oppose vouchers? Or even privatizing all the schools? Why does the Government have to run Education?

It doesn't run food shopping. Movie viewing. Auto purchases. Music creation. Home buying. Investments. Recreation. Book writing. or any private other activity people decide to engage in.

So why does it have to run education, especially considering how poorly it does so?

 

[countryroads89]

What was not factual in the excerpt? Read up on the REAL ID ACT 2005.

Bottom line is that there are no NEPA or ESA laws that cannot be waived.

And like I posted, all federal regulations will be complied with. This is a project that will take years and there are no imminent threats....therefore, no good justification to not comply with all regulations.

 

[atlkvb]

Let’s move to comprehensive immigration reform with a path to citizenship.

Translation: Let's secure these votes in time for the next election cycle so we can guarantee our victory and control over your money & your lives.

 

[WVPATX]

Translation: Let's secure these votes in time for the next election cycle so we can guarantee our victory and control over your money & your lives.

Nail meet head

 

[dave]

And like I posted, all federal regulations will be complied with. This is a project that will take years and there are no imminent threats....therefore, no good justification to not comply with all regulations.

You are letting your stubbornness affect your brain again. The sections of the wall that have been built were all built using the same waivers and if they want to use them now they will. Will they? I don't know but if the enviromorons start getting litigious they can.

 

[atlkvb]

And like I posted, all federal regulations will be complied with. This is a project that will take years and there are no imminent threats....therefore, no good justification to not comply with all regulations.

Then why is Left threatening to use these obscure regulations to block construction of the wall? That's what the "activist" was quoted as saying they were prepared to do to stop it?

 

[WVPATX]

And like I posted, all federal regulations will be complied with. This is a project that will take years and there are no imminent threats....therefore, no good justification to not comply with all regulations.

Even if you are right, how do you know we have no imminent threats? You can't possibly, that information is highly classified. Moreover, we have the threats of drugs, crime, death on the border, rapes on the border from coyotes, entry of criminals resulting in death of American citizens, etc.

 

[WVPATX]

You are letting your stubbornness affect your brain again. The sections of the wall that have been built were all built using the same waivers and if they want to use them now they will. Will they? I don't know but if the enviromorons start getting litigious they can.

Libs will litigate but will ultimately lose. It may delay but will not stop construction.

 

[atlkvb]

there are no imminent threats

I thought we were in a War against terrorists who have threatened to use and have used that border to infiltrate us?