Cops during the Texas shooting

[Gunny46]

Right. Government is just magically going to stop stupid spending. I'd love to be in your dream world where that occurs, but it will never happen. Raise the revenue by taxing firearms and ammunition sales to help offset the cost. That's found money and you get to keep your weapons with no new restrictions. Win/Win.

Guns are already taxed 10 % on new sales. So no.

Elizabeth Warren unveils gun control plan that pushes for higher taxes on firearms and bullets

The plan comes in the wake of back-to-back mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio that left at least 31 people dead.

www.google.com

 

[SoCo]

Guns are already taxed 10 % on new sales. So no.

Elizabeth Warren unveils gun control plan that pushes for higher taxes on firearms and bullets

The plan comes in the wake of back-to-back mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio that left at least 31 people dead.

www.google.com

Therein lies the problem. Both sides are unwilling to compromise. People get burned when that happens. Ask the left how it feels to see Roe/Wade overturned after decades of their refusal to compromise.

So it gets bumped another 5% and ammo at 5%. Like Mntneer said, it's a drop in the bucket. And now our schools are safer. I would think you'd be happy to protect our schools while you keep your guns and all it cost you is an extra couple hundred $$ per year that you can afford. God forbid we find actual solutions to our problems.

 

[TarHeelEer]

If we need to fund projects to keep children safe from people with firearms in our schools, it only makes sense to tax things associated with firearms so the people can still enjoy their second amendment rights. No different than a gas tax where the money goes back into the roadway system. If I don't like it, I can take the bus.

You know what, I could accept a tax on firearms and ammo if it went to that cause.

However bureaucracy would bog it down, and 1/10th of the money would actually get to school protection, and what they'd do would be inadequate.

 

[SKYHAWKBALL]

Therein lies the problem. Both sides are unwilling to compromise. People get burned when that happens. Ask the left how it feels to see Roe/Wade overturned after decades of their refusal to compromise.

So it gets bumped another 5% and ammo at 5%. Like Mntneer said, it's a drop in the bucket. And now our schools are safer. I would think you'd be happy to protect our schools while you keep your guns and all it cost you is an extra couple hundred $$ per year that you can afford. God forbid we find actual solutions to our problems.

Letting instructors/administration the ability to conceal carry in the schools would help and be even cheaper.

 

[SKYHAWKBALL]

Can someone answer this.....HOW did this terrorist get in the school?

Based on the reports, a teacher went out to her vehicle and left the door propped open.

 

[Gunny46]

Therein lies the problem. Both sides are unwilling to compromise. People get burned when that happens. Ask the left how it feels to see Roe/Wade overturned after decades of their refusal to compromise.

So it gets bumped another 5% and ammo at 5%. Like Mntneer said, it's a drop in the bucket. And now our schools are safer. I would think you'd be happy to protect our schools while you keep your guns and all it cost you is an extra couple hundred $$ per year that you can afford. God forbid we find actual solutions to our problems.

Less money going overseas and more money going to protecting our citizens. There's your compromise.

 

[TarHeelEer]

According to one of the girls that survived, the police didn't need the key. The window in the door was shot out.

Texas school shooter Salvador Ramos told teacher ‘goodnight’

Miah Cerrill, one of the survivors of the shooting in Texas, divulged chilling details from Tuesday’s carnage at Robb Elementary School.

nypost.com

 

[Gunny46]

According to one of the girls that survived, the police didn't need the key. The window in the door was shot out.

Texas school shooter Salvador Ramos told teacher ‘goodnight’

Miah Cerrill, one of the survivors of the shooting in Texas, divulged chilling details from Tuesday’s carnage at Robb Elementary School.

nypost.com

Did the cops shoot any of the kids?


After the initial flurry of shots, Ramos headed into the adjoining classroom — with Cerrillo hearing screams as more of her friends were slaughtered

 

[SoCo]

Less money going overseas and more money going to protecting our citizens. There's your compromise.

That's will never happen. If it isn't practical, it isn't a solution. Don't get me wrong, I could get behind that but you might as well say when our politicians aren't corrupt we can save the money.

Besides, a compromise means both sides give. What you listed exemplifies the problem. Neither side wants to give.

 

[Gunny46]

That's will never happen. If it isn't practical, it isn't a solution. Don't get me wrong, I could get behind that but you might as well say when our politicians aren't corrupt we can save the money.

Besides, a compromise means both sides give. What you listed exemplifies the problem. Neither side wants to give.

Then get behind it. That's my and many others compromise. Elect better people. I don't feel the need to be punished for others incompetence.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Based on the reports, a teacher went out to her vehicle and left the door propped open.

Reports, or rumors and speculation?

 

[roadtrasheer]

No, the gun did exactly what it was designed to do.

If the idiot was armed with a knife, more people would be alive. I'm not saying guns are the sole reason they are dead but it played a role without a doubt.

Denying that is just dishonest.

Oh make no mistake I'm not dishonest. I'm a realist .
The gun did not kill . The person did . The evil killed .
Did freedom of speech lie? No it did not , the dirty bastards exploiting did .

 

[roadtrasheer]

You know what, I could accept a tax on firearms and ammo if it went to that cause.

However bureaucracy would bog it down, and 1/10th of the money would actually get to school protection, and what they'd do would be inadequate.

Give a inch they take a mile

 

[SKYHAWKBALL]

Reports, or rumors and speculation?

Some “reports” (cause they keep changing) mention that she was outside before the guy crashed into a ditch and some have said after but her being out after doesn’t match the timeline. Either way, leaving the door propped open is irresponsible.

Uvalde shooter entered school through door that had been propped open | News | dailyitem.com

www.dailyitem.com

 

[SKYHAWKBALL]

Timeline link:

Top Texas cop admits cops botched Uvalde school response: ‘Wrong decision, period’

The Uvalde, Texas school shooter was able to march into the school unobstructed through a door that had been propped open by a teacher before he fired more than 100 rounds in the attack, officials …

nypost.com

 

[WESTBGVA]

Timeline link:

Top Texas cop admits cops botched Uvalde school response: ‘Wrong decision, period’

The Uvalde, Texas school shooter was able to march into the school unobstructed through a door that had been propped open by a teacher before he fired more than 100 rounds in the attack, officials …

nypost.com

the fog of chaos..

 

[WESTBGVA]

Tactical you are getting it. Don't want to get too much into it for obvious reasons. It's easy for those who have never been shot at to say what they would have done different. Doesn't mean they couldn't have done better. Lack of training and proper equipment could have contributed. Lots of variables and people being critical of something they have never experienced. Mostly based on emotions. I understand those emotions but also understand how emotional decisions could have made it even worse.

if there's gunfire you can't stand by and wait to form some slackass stack..you just go, even if that teather on your back is trying to stop you.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Everyone thinks they are a better hero.......until they are put in to a situation to prove it. Some prove it, most don't. I'm not blaming the cops for what they did. Am I pissed off or confused about it? F**k yeah! I reserve most of my emotions for the parents who waited outside while this was going on. I cannot imagine what they were feeling or going through. I also hope this wakes people up to have civil, proper discussions about the issue of mass shootings and extremism.

 

[WESTBGVA]

Everyone thinks they are a better hero.......until they are put in to a situation to prove it. Some prove it, most don't. I'm not blaming the cops for what they did. Am I pissed off or confused about it? F**k yeah! I reserve most of my emotions for the parents who waited outside while this was going on. I cannot imagine what they were feeling or going through. I also hope this wakes people up to have civil, proper discussions about the issue of mass shootings and extremism.

I agree with that 100%

 

[Gunny46]

if there's gunfire you can't stand by and wait to form some slackass stack..you just go, even if that teather on your back is trying to stop you.

I know. It's what I trained thousands to do. That doesn't mean that's what some poorly trained officers are capable of. It starts with hiring the right kind of people. Equipping and training them properly. Most importantly if you have never been in a CQB environment with rounds flying by your opinions are probably based on emotions or video game experience. I've seen experienced people freeze up. So it wouldn't surprise me if a local LEO did.

 

[WESTBGVA]

I know. It's what I trained thousands to do. That doesn't mean that's what some poorly trained officers are capable of.

what state? I taught in Virginia

 

[Gunny46]

what state? I taught in Virginia

All the Military Branches, Federal Agencies, and Local Agencies all over the country.

 

[SoCo]

Then get behind it. That's my and many others compromise. Elect better people. I don't feel the need to be punished for others incompetence.

That’s not a compromise. Do what I want is never a compromise and exactly why this debate continues.

 

[MountaineerWV]

"Ain't nobody gonna take away my right to own a weapon.......but you can limit the number of polling places, mail in ballots, and early voting techniques." 😂

 

[Gunny46]

..

That’s not a compromise. Do what I want is never a compromise and exactly why this debate continues.

"Ain't nobody gonna take away my right to own a weapon.......but you can limit the number of polling places, mail in ballots, and early voting techniques." 😂

You should go turn in your guns then. The local Sherriff's Department will destroy them for you.

 

[MountaineerWV]

..



You should go turn in your guns then. The local Sherriff's Department will destroy them for you.

Calm down Kemo Sabe.

 

[Gunny46]

Calm down Kemo Sabe.

20 million gun sales last year alone. Americans aren't interested in compromise right now and they shouldn't with everything going on in the world. That's just a simple fact.

 

[Mntneer]

That’s not a compromise. Do what I want is never a compromise and exactly why this debate continues.

The right has routinely compromised on this subject.

 

[WESTBGVA]

I know. It's what I trained thousands to do. That doesn't mean that's what some poorly trained officers are capable of. It starts with hiring the right kind of people. Equipping and training them properly. Most importantly if you have never been in a CQB environment with rounds flying by your opinions are probably based on emotions or video game experience. I've seen experienced people freeze up. So it wouldn't surprise me if a local LEO did.

actually I have been twice..training is one thing.....a gunfight is another..some do very well in training...they're not going to be shot..then just shutdown

 

[roadtrasheer]

actually I have been twice..training is one thing.....a gunfight is another..some do very well in training...they're not going to be shot..then just shutdown

Fear is a powerful force. I have a hard time being to judgmental on these type of situations. I have never been in one to know how I would react. Like to think I would be a superhero.

 

[Gunny46]

actually I have been twice..training is one thing.....a gunfight is another..some do very well in training...they're not going to be shot..then just shutdown

I've been in numerous gunfights. I'm talking about those who haven't talking about what they would have done better. They don't know.

After a few days to gather more information they didn't do what should have been done. They need to be held accountable.

The Border Patrol Team deserve a thank you.

Whatever it takes to fund your local law enforcement to ensure they have ballistic shields and breaching equipment in all patrol cars needs to happen yesterday. That's Something everyone can help with.

 

[Gunny46]

Fear is a powerful force. I have a hard time being to judgmental on these type of situations. I have never been in one to know how I would react. Like to think I would be a superhero.

Fight or flight is a real thing. CQB is one of the most stressful situation you can find yourself in. Add hostages and It's harder.

 

[WESTBGVA]

Fight or flight is a real thing. CQB is one of the most stressful situation you can find yourself in. Add hostages and It's harder.

Dec 31,1999 (y2k) 1610..actually emptied a magazine and reloaded on a 92fs Beretta

 

[Gunny46]

Dec 31,1999 (y2k) 1610..actually emptied a magazine and reloaded on a 92fs Beretta

Sounds like alot of rounds unaccounted for? Hopefully you didn't hit anything you weren't suppose to.

 

[roadtrasheer]

Fight or flight is a real thing. CQB is one of the most stressful situation you can find yourself in. Add hostages and It's harder.

In any situation I've been in I have never had the flight experience.
Never in a actual gun fight . Been shot & stabbed & have had guns pulled on me , never run . I still don't believe I can judge a person in that situation. People like you can .

 

[Gunny46]

In any situation I've been in I have never had the flight experience.
Never in a actual gun fight . Been shot & stabbed & have had guns pulled on me , never run . I still don't believe I can judge a person in that situation. People like you can .

It's three rounds per threat with no flyers in this situation. Can't be spraying and praying. That's how people get shot that are not suppose to. It's more complicated than people are making it. However they should have went Direct to threat. Sounds like the incident commander didn't even understand the difference between a barricaded suspect and an active shooter.

Training to check the box isn't effective training. It's got to be hard to build confidence. Not having ballistic shields and breaching equipment in every car is also a problem. They are effective and build confidence.

I don't doubt that some people on here would have tried to do the right thing. However without proper training it doesn't mean they would have gotten the job done.

 

[WESTBGVA]

Sounds like alot of rounds unaccounted for? Hopefully you didn't hit anything you weren't suppose to.

it was unusual to have a prolonged engagement..he was an unusual person.

 

[roadtrasheer]

It's three rounds per threat with no flyers in this situation. Can't be spraying and praying. That's how people get shot that are not suppose to. It's more complicated than people are making it. However they should have went Direct to threat. Sounds like the incident commander didn't even understand the difference between a barricaded suspect and an active shooter.

Training to check the box isn't effective training. It's got to be hard to build confidence. Not having ballistic shields and breaching equipment in every car is also a problem. They are effective and build confidence.

I don't doubt that some people on here would have tried to the right thing. However without proper training it doesn't mean they would have gotten the job done.

Didn't Obama make a big stink about cops having military equipment? I cant remember how it played out. Instead of billions to other countries properly fund our police.

 

[Gunny46]

Didn't Obama make a big stink about cops having military equipment? I cant remember how it played out. Instead of billions to other countries properly fund our police.

If true the door was outward opening that could have definitely slowed things down. This is why you should have breaching equipment in all patrol cars. The fire department would have had one too. A ram, sledgehammer, and halligan at a minimum. Breacher rounds for a shotgun also.

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Rep. Gonzales: Uvalde police response delayed by ‘scrambling’ to find tools to pry open steel door​

Rep. Tony Gonzales, R-Texas, told "Fox News Live" Saturday that while on the ground in Uvalde, he spoke to a wounded officer who told him police response units were "scrambling" to find a tool to open the school door to get to the gunman on Tuesday.
He learned that the locked steel door only opened outward, "not inward," making it more difficult to break down.

 

[Gunny46]

Didn't Obama make a big stink about cops having military equipment? I cant remember how it played out. Instead of billions to other countries properly fund our police.

If true the door was outward opening that could have definitely slowed things down. This is why you should have breaching equipment in all patrol cars. The fire department would have had one too. A ram, sledgehammer, and halligan at a minimum. Breacher rounds for a shotgun also.

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The EMERGENCY CLASSIC HALLAGAN TOOL has been used for years by the best Entry Teams around the world. Get you official EOD Gear Quote today.

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Rep. Gonzales: Uvalde police response delayed by ‘scrambling’ to find tools to pry open steel door​

Rep. Tony Gonzales, R-Texas, told "Fox News Live" Saturday that while on the ground in Uvalde, he spoke to a wounded officer who told him police response units were "scrambling" to find a tool to open the school door to get to the gunman on Tuesday.
He learned that the locked steel door only opened outward, "not inward," making it more difficult to break down.

Yes, however lockbusters, sledgehammer, halligan, ram, and ballistic shield is hardly military equipment alone. Every patrol car should have that in the trunk. If the news above is true then that answers why the delay once he got into the room. It doesn't excuse the entire delay of not getting it faster or not having the equipment to begin with. The fire department would have had it also.