Again, every president isn't as morally corrupt as those at OU/UT.
Some actually follow the Bylaws they signed onto and its clear that is happening now that two schools are gone.
BOWLSBY--ESPN conspired against BIG 12
- Thread starter Buckaineer
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Some actually follow the Bylaws they signed onto and its clear that is happening now that two schools are gone.
Sounds like YOU want WVU in a mid major conference.
WVU is trying to remain a power school--and right now the ONLY POWER CONFERENCE HOME IS IN THE BIG 12!
Again, stop playing make believe and deal with reality.
If WVU is actually invited/accepted somewhere then their decision making may change--that obviously is not the case at this point in time, so stop pretending it is.
Eh...
A couple weeks ago my kids found 2 dead baby bunnies in our yard. Either a cat or a fox got them..
I had to explain that life works like that...sorry bunnies
Now, here I am explaining the same thing to a grown man who doesnt get it.
You should go stand in front of the pyramids and block wind erosion...you'd probably be more effective..
You want WVU in the ACC.
Great. As soon as you secure WVU's position in the ACC let us all know.
Until then, let WVU and the BIG 12 do what they have to do to survive and receive monies owed so they don't just survive in major college athletics for a week.
In your view of the world, there is no right or wrong, just self interest at any cost to anyone else.
Thinking people have morals and business sense and act accordingly within the law.
Clear you don't understand that and its a shame but one day you will.
Lol, I'm not involved in this...i dont have a say.
..just like you..
But i still get to be smart and you are left the same way as you started..
Clearly you and smart do not have any connection whatsoever.
You are right--this is a message board. Therefore its odd that you feel its so important to attack those who do have a say and are trying to protect WVU and its status and revenues going forward while championing those doing harm.
Reading this thread it appears you are doing all the crying because you can't accept reality (or you are simply trying to fool others).
I'm simply talking rationally about what the BIG 12 is doing in the face of what is happening right now.
Then why are you so determined to spew attacks towards me rather than rationally discussing this situation? Hmmm.
I didnt mourn the Big East and I wont mourn the B12.
They were both reactive organizations which provided WVU no influence.
Ditto, don't care.
The BIG 12 is doing what it has to--on WVUs behalf.
Again , not sure what you don't understand about this.
WVU hasn't been invited to another conference in the power conferences at this time.
WVU has obligations in the BIG 12 conference for years forward and cannot afford any buyout, or GOR fees or any of these other costs.
If they get an invitation somewhere else and its a realistic and good one then they'll make a rational decision towards that move. Right now? Not much that anyone can do but try to protect revenues owed and power status and future earnings and that is what they will continue to do most likely whether you like them or not either.
If you actually support WVU, I am betting you'll mourn if the BIG 12 dissolves and WVU is forced into a G5 conference.
New AAC
Iowa State
Kansas
Wichita State in every sport besides football
Navy in football
Temple
West Virginia
Tulsa
Cincinnati
East Carolina
USF
UCF
Memphis
Tulane
Houston
SMU
Iowa State
Kansas
Wichita State in every sport besides football
Navy in football
Temple
West Virginia
Tulsa
Cincinnati
East Carolina
USF
UCF
Memphis
Tulane
Houston
SMU
No its not. Probably not as strong as with Oklahoma until someone develops into that consistent winner. But still as strong as most of the schools in other conferences and likely stronger than the PAC depending on additions.
There is alot of anti BIG 12 spin.
Yet the BIG 12 remaining schools rate better on tv and play better than most of the ACC, most of the PAC and a large portion of the SEC and Big Ten.
Playing 1 game against UT and 1 against OU didn't make BIG 12 schools power schools.
Besides, nearly every school beat Texas multiple times and OU only went undefeated a couple of years.
Everybody already acknowledges greed has ruined sports. Therefore, who cares where WVU ends up?
Very thorough explanation, thank you.A legal opinion on the matter--interesting points:
JORDAN: Breaking down the Big 12's cease and desist to ESPN
Aug 31, 2018; Madison, WI, USA; ESPN College Football logo on a tv camera prior to the game between the Western Kentucky Hilltoppers and Wisconsin Badgers at Camp Randall Stadium. Mandatory Credit: Jeff Hanisch-USA TODAY Sports I was asked to provide a simple opinion and explanation of the impliccyclonefanatic.com
I was asked to provide a simple opinion and explanation of the implications derived from the cease and desist letter sent by the Big 12 Conference to ESPN (the “CD” hereinafter).
Being an attorney, I have penned these letters as a common component of a legal strategy involving litigation as the ultimate outcome. It is a step aimed at freezing further harmful action, galvanizing positions for potential settlement negotiations, and satisfying notice requirements that may be required as a prerequisite for the filing of a lawsuit.
The substance of the CD indicates that the Big 12 has evidence that ESPN has, with intent, acted in a manner consistent with harming (it is safe to say seeking the dissolution of) the Big 12 Conference and that ESPN has sought to induce a further breach of certain contracts by conferences other than the SEC. In addition, the CD indicates that the Big 12 believes it will be able to establish that ESPN was involved in inducing the actions of Texas and Oklahoma in seeking to leave the Big 12 prior to the expiration of their current contractual obligations.
The Big 12 specifically references the violated clauses of the contract which would support a claim based on breach of contract. In the alternative, or more likely, in the primary, the Big 12 is positioning a suit based on tortious interference with contract (intentional interference with contractual relations) for which a calculation of damages would include not only contractual damages calculated by the contract value itself but may also (though not certainly) include damages derived from the tortious act including opportunity costs and potential derivative damages incurred by the Big 12 and its member institutions.
To succeed in a claim for tortious interference a claimant must prove four elements: 1) that a valid contract existed; 2) that a defendant had knowledge of the contract; 3) that a defendant acted intentionally and improperly; 4) that the plaintiff was injured by the defendant’s actions. United Truck Leasing Corp. v. Geltman, 406 Mass. 811, 812, 551 N.E. 2d 20 n. 6 (Mass. 1990).
The effect of the letter should be to freeze all current behind-the-scenes discussions between ESPN and institutions and conferences regarding realignment and potential telecast contractual rights and values. I believe both the Big 12 and the member institutions have legal redress in a suit of this nature against ESPN, the offending institutions, and possibly the SEC. Though public statements have been carefully worded to avoid providing “smoking gun” evidence, the CD indicates that there is an active search for evidence that would lend itself to a case based on breach of contract and tortious interference.
The expected outcome in many similarly situated legal claims is that the parties now enter into negotiations to determine if a suitable financial outcome can be reached for both the aggrieved party and the bad actor. However, should the bad actor continue to act in an injurious manner, then litigation will likely be initiated which would include a claim for immediate issuance of an injunction against any of the alleged behavior pending the outcome of the underlying case.
I would expect any lawsuit where the parties are unwilling to settle to take in the range of 3 to 4 years to conclude with the certainty of appeals to the highest level thereafter. The implication is a freezing effect on new telecast contracts and conference realignment with all current agreements being extended by necessity via court order pending the outcome of the case.
The alleged actions and indication in the CD that evidence of actionable behavior has already been gathered give substance to posturing and leverage to the Big 12. The purpose of the strategy and the use of the leverage is pure speculation, but one can safely derive that the Big 12 has a case and that we, as fans, face a future where the governing body of collegiate athletics wear robes instead of logoed visors.
If this gets into the political arena it could out ESPN/ Disney much more. Destroying competition for your own profit won't be looked at kindly.
Trust me on this one. The ACC wants and needs to expand. The gap between Clemson and the second place team is massive. UNC is getting it together, but the ACC championship has been a flop year after year since it started.
they need perception. Adding Notre Dame doesn’t do anything for perception because Notre Dame has been garbage for decades. ACC should jump all over West Virginia and Oklahoma State. Figure out what Notre Dame wants to do, if they join, grab Cincinnati. But Cincinnati will be irrelevant when Fickel coaches in the SEC.
Bucky you’re getting too smothered out about this. The two best possible people that you could have at this point is Shane and Gordon. We spent our money preparing for this day. We did not expand and enjoyed the money when we looked at Houston, Cincinnati, and read the open invitation begging to join by BYU. Why add two teams when we’re making this kind of money and split it with them. Will go as long as it takes us. It’s over.
We are in a fantastic position, ESPN wants the big 12 to break up, forces ACC to make a move, AAC can pick up some very good programs, Pac 12 and big 10 Could try to beat them to the punch. Everybody’s going to be chasing the SEC so you better get some football teams ready. We’re top three in the ACC. Our facilities are ridiculous. I hope Oklahoma State comes with us
We are in a fantastic position, ESPN wants the big 12 to break up, forces ACC to make a move, AAC can pick up some very good programs, Pac 12 and big 10 Could try to beat them to the punch. Everybody’s going to be chasing the SEC so you better get some football teams ready. We’re top three in the ACC. Our facilities are ridiculous. I hope Oklahoma State comes with us
ESPN runs the ACC
Back to the original point
If ESPN wants WVU in the AAC they will make sure that the ACC doesn’t let them in
Back to the original point
If ESPN wants WVU in the AAC they will make sure that the ACC doesn’t let them in
Got it. Couldn't read the side comment on my phone. After a 1 year spike AAC has been in free fall. Trend line is not good.
Schools are not participating in devaluing themselves to enrich the AAC or a network. They also aren't likely willingly giving up contracted monies that some schools owe if they depart years early.
Not sure how much plainer it can be.
Going to also post this in its own thread. Here is the strength of the remaining BIG 12 compared to all the other P5s with their top 20% of teams knocked off (2020 numbers).
Lower number means you are stronger.
Guess what--the BIG 12 is #1 which completely blows up the LIE that the remaining BIG 12 schools are G5 quality without OU/UT.
Sagarin comparison--BIG (8) compared to each P5 minus top 20%
Lower number means you are stronger.
Guess what--the BIG 12 is #1 which completely blows up the LIE that the remaining BIG 12 schools are G5 quality without OU/UT.
Sagarin comparison--BIG (8) compared to each P5 minus top 20%
| B12 (8) | |
| ISU | 8 |
| OK State | 19 |
| TCU | 24 |
| WVU | 31 |
| Baylor | 62 |
| KSU | 68 |
| T Tech | 80 |
| Kansas | 130 |
average | 52.75 |
| B10 | |
| OSU | |
| Iowa | |
| Nwestern | |
| Indiana | 17 |
| Wisconsin | 18 |
| PSU | 29 |
| Nebraska | 49 |
| Minnesota | 50 |
| Purdue | 56 |
| Maryland | 61 |
| Michigan | 70 |
| Rutgers | 71 |
| MSU | 81 |
| Illinoios | 88 |
average | 53.63636364 |
| SEC | |
| Alabama | |
| UGA | |
| A&M | |
| Florida | 14 |
| Auburn | 26 |
| Mississippi | 32 |
| LSU | 38 |
| Kentucky | 47 |
| Arkansas | 51 |
| MS State | 54 |
| Missouri | 69 |
| Tennessee | 72 |
| South Car | 96 |
| Vanderbilt | 122 |
average | 56.45454545 |
| ACC | |
| Clemson | |
| UNC | |
| Miami | |
| Pitt | 42 |
| Wake | 45 |
| VT | 48 |
| UL | 53 |
| UVA | 57 |
| NC State | 58 |
| BC | 66 |
| GT | 101 |
| FSU | 102 |
| Syracuse | 107 |
| Duke | 113 |
average | 72 |
| PAC | |
| Arizona St | |
| USC | |
| Oregon | 43 |
| UCLA | 46 |
| Utah | 52 |
| Stanford | 75 |
| Colorado | 77 |
| Washington | 78 |
| Oregon St | 91 |
| Cal | 94 |
| Washington S | 98 |
| Arizona | 121 |
average | 77.5 |
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Meanwhile here's what the AAC-the conference trying to poach the BIG 12 (8) looks like in comparison with its ENTIRE conference strength (sagarin--2020):
| AAC | |
| Cincinnati | 16 |
| UCF | 37 |
| Tulsa | 40 |
| Tulane | 73 |
| SMU | 82 |
| Houston | 84 |
| Memphis | 90 |
| ECU | 100 |
| Navy | 117 |
| USF | 134 |
| Temple | 146 |
average | 83.54545455 |
Do you freaking realize that if 5 more teams leave, nobody owes anybody sh!t. WVU makes the same comment “We will not extend our GOR pat 2025” Then Iowa St and Kansas say the same thing, Oky St and TTU or Baylor, it’s OVER!!!
OVER!!!!! No more BIG 12 , GOR, 2025, blah blah blah, OVER!
And ESPN is renewing contracts and offering money to conferences to make this happen!
God almighty you are smothering.
Dude with what I know and know what has happened since last week, not worried at all.
Notre Dame has it made right now and conferences are running numbers and getting presentations. Have a drink. It will be fine.
Do you realize that if ONE school remains, the conference still remains?
5 schools don't invalidate the conference.
6 schools don't
7 schools don't
Everyone would have to leave.
Right now? Not 1 has an invitation to a legitimate conference and they all have 18 month departure requirements plus a buyout = their final two years, plus they'd leave all their media rights behind through 2025.
Maybe if OU/UT pay up their required fees schools can afford those buyouts if they choose, maybe not. But unless they as an entirety decide to call it quits and that isn't very likely --then everyone is going to be there until 2025 (at least). You never know they may all want to keep it together.
It's not about perception. It's about media rights, and there isn't a more valued program available in the country right now then Notre Dame. I suspect the ACC, Big 10, and Pac-12 are gonna stand pat cause they don't need to do anything else right now. ESPN put it's foot in it and now everybody is gonna wait and see what happens. Might change the face of this big money SEC keeps harping about.
You are!!! The Big XII. BTW... hints tonight that the ACC might be destablizing. Sigh... where is your evidence that WVU has a spot open? I realize what my school is.. perceived as the little brother of big bad Kansas. Sure we pulverize them in football every year, and our athletic department actually has some integrity and isn't financially in the tank. But that is the perception. K-State is the favorite in the state west of Topeka, KU is the favorite east. BUT.. the perception is KU brings the Kansas City Market more then anybody else.. and you know what? It's not wrong, they do. And their national brand in basketball gives them something K-State can't touch in any way.. even if they are waiting for the FBI and NCAA to bend them over and give them their due (lol.. had to add that). But I know what my school is.. it's the school perceived to be worse off then any other school in the league sans Baylor and TCU (big market but people care so little they can't get 40k into the smallest stadium in the league) because our neighbor down the river is AAU (another mostly bullshit designation) and has a blue blood basketball program ( at least that is valid).
Do you know what your school is? Fortunately for you that you are the flagship program in your state. But.. if you're sniffing up the ACC's ass.. you might want to know you're the lowest ranked school in the league academically... WVU and Texas Tech are the only Big XII schools outside of the top 200 nationally. Now do I think it's bullshit? Sure it is. Most of that crap has to do with graduate schools, and most land grant schools haven't put the focus on those the way they do undergraduate programs. There isn't likely a hills bean of difference between a degree from K-State, Iowa State or WVU. . But you find yourself surrounded by academic snobbery to the North, and to the south. Will the ACC overlook it? You tell me. I don't know. But there was a reason ESPN was trying to shove all 8 schools in the AAC. And it's probably not cause the Big 10 was begging for the Jayhawks and Cyclones, and the ACC was begging for the Mountaineers.
Reports from our side are that the schools (probably after some fishing and rebuffs), desire to stick together. there is a LOT of money to be made here. A LOT!!! Do I think the ACC might open up for WVU? Sure.. down the road. But right now it appears none of these conferences are in the mood to expand. ALL of them are pissed at the SEC, including the Big 10. And now.. the Big XII just made this shit really interesting for everybody.. potentially opening the door for the feds or the NCAA to do something to try and get this thing under control, both with realignment, and even perhaps the paying of players.. It's not so bad that they are paying them.. but the NCAA must be given the teeth and authorization to control it at some level. Let's just see what happens. We've all been pretty good together. This league is a monster in basketball.
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