....but it’s still time not working for money from their primary job.
Why word games about silly shit?
WV teacher strke
- Thread starter tjebarr
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....but it’s still time not working for money from their primary job.
Why word games about silly shit?
Then we are in agreement. But I wish the problem was as simple as unions. We don’t have unions in SC, have the same issues with not being able to get STEM teachers and yet for some reason the system is rigged to pay us all the same. Privatize it all and pay the ones who do their jobs well and work in high demand areas. If a surgeon was in the top of his field he would have his pick of jobs and salaries at those jobs. Education shouldn’t be any different.
So taxpayers are being told finding who is the best (and worse) teachers isn’t possible. What’s the solution? ...and in the case of WV is the union helping to find it?
In the nearly 700 posts in this thread, no one has been more supportive of STEM teachers than me. But are you really going to ask why supply and demand doesn’t extend into the education system? It’s because the teachers and their union want it that way. What do you think; some outside force made that determination? Go talk to your union.
So is having to be responsible for the education and well-being of 85 kids per day, communicating with their parents, and a hundred other things I may have to do on a daily/weekly basis.
Some doctors and nurses only work 3 days a week. I seriously doubt anyone is going to complain about all their time off or how much they get paid. Different jobs have different requirements in that regard.
I think any reasonable person would agree the teaching profession across our entire nation is underpaid. It’s not the only one, but it’s the one we are discussing. As I stated earlier, not everyone is good at their jobs and not everyone should be paid the same. I also don’t agree with the whole strike thing as it causes tons of problems for parents and the folks we try to help each day.
If we don’t agree on everything I’m fine with that. Everyone’s entitled to their own opinions. My attempt here was to provide a voice to someone who’s been there, done that, and continuing to do it but has eyes on the outside now.
We don’t have unions in SC. I still get paid as much as the gym teacher down the hall. It’s not unions, it’s so far beyond that.
I’d love to say with certainty the teacher unions in WV have teacher best interests at heart but I can’t. When I lived there I never once joined or even thought about it, though I did appreciate having a voice advocating for higher wages. I now live in a state where no teacher unions exist and I’m forced to attend meetings and do things outside of work whether I want to or not. At least in WV I had a choice on those types of things.
There IS a way to determine good teachers from the bad, but it’s not test scores. I’ve administered so many standardized tests where students finished in 10 minutes, tried to sleep, caused disruptions, etc. They don’t take them seriously and there’s no accountability in them.
I’m in favor of having administrators in the classrooms more, possibly hiring outside consultants whose jobs are to come in and watch teachers in action. How do we interact with the kids? What connections are being made beyond just the content. Maybe you can’t lower pay for those who suck but you certainly can reward those who don’t.
I posted my response before seeing the rest of your responses re: unions. That is the driving reason in most places. I don’t know how SC works. Good luck to you though.
You’re comparing a government teaching job to doctors and nurses?
I do ok but I’d get laughed out of my company presidents office if I even suggested I deserved this or that because my doctor bragged about having a yacht.
I’m trying to have a rational discussion but you make that really hard. I did not in any way say it was the same. I used that as a way of showing some folks don’t all work the same number of days and that wages don’t necessarily have to match up with the number of days you work. Of course doctors and nurses deserve their pay. I said as much. But you have your soapbox and clearly are unwilling to engage in rational discourse.
Well...damn.... ...fine. Maybe those are valid points.
...but we start fresh (as in me still being me) tomorrow.
Thanks. I honestly don’t understand the system at all. Unions or not all school districts seem content paying everyone the same regardless of qualifications. It’s definitely frustrating that a student can grow up to make 6 figures as an engineer but the people he gives all the credit to helping him get there are making the same as the gym teacher.
And yeah, we chose the profession and knew what we were getting into, but it still doesn’t make it right. We are definitely in need of strong educational reform across the board.
That’s fantastic. I’m not sure what relevance any of it had to what I posted though. I’m guessing they’d have no issues with any of the initiatives I proposed as they’d likely exceed any marginal metric the union would allow to be implemented.
Agreed. i cant understand how so many do not realize teachers are right up there with law enforcement and medical fields as having the most important jobs in this country. They are solely responsible for educating and shaping the future of our youth. They are basicaly responsible for the future of our country. it just blows mind when somebody questions their work habits, time off etc. smdh
It the same thing as being evaluated on how a teacher's students perform on a state assessment ...from students in a rural area where parents do not place an emphasis on education vs a suburb where parents focus time and resources on their child's education. So many factors out of teacher and physician's control in a "merit" system.
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Wish I had a answer for you. Unfortunately; with the current system I do not. Thank you for your efforts.
Exactly. You get it and I bet the life lessons you teach your students go well beyond math and school.
Too many of these arguments by teachers I was hearing were emotional "I just want more money", with no seeming understanding of economics or reality.
Now, how do we get you back to WV and out of ACC country?
It’s not my friend , then go get our government to make 5-17 year old kids go to school 5 days a week 52 weeks of the year and you will be ok
We can give them a week vacation, a couple days of sick pay , and pay for their own insurance that the government f...cked them on
That’s been suggested.before... ..and make no doubt if it becomes a serious discussion teachers (union) will suddenly want more money for working more hours (that they claim they now work anyway).
Try telling me I’m wrong without having a huge smile while typing your reply.
Well if what the union and government agreed to hours worked and pay , plus insurance, and getting a college degree then yes they should pay more stupid
Teachers actually get paid per their contract. They just elect to get their pay over 12 months.
Go on your own and don’t bad mouth someone that paid for your whole vacation wow
Teachers Don't actually get paid over the Summer for not working. They get paid per their contract but elect to get their pay check spread out over 12 months.
WV teachers don't get paid well. For the amount of responsibility they have in helping raise our youth its quite sad what they make being a classroom teacher. Im sorry but when the most a teacher can make in certain Counties is 70,000 at the top of the scale thats just scary sad. And that 70,000 grand is after 30 years. Geez, anyone that thinks thats reasonable hasnt spent one day in a classroom. I could never speak To what A Lot of you posters do for a living. Perhaps some of you should spend one week in a school classroom before coming on here pretending like you know what its like being in the teaching profession.
Strikes, work stoppages, and collective bargaining are effective methods to obtain equitable wages and benefits. Thankfully, coal miners, auto workers, textile workers, etc., didn't share your myopic viewpoint.
No one is debating how they get paid. They are debating that you when you factor an average salary of $46k is for 9-10 months of work because they don't work in the summers. If they actually worked a full 12 months, their salary would be $52k. You are in a field where out of the gate you are choosing to work 16% less than a normal FTE and by making that choice, you are losing 13% of additional salary. If you do choose to work in the summers, you receive extra comp commensurate with the service provided, but again, it's the individual's choice.
I doubt you will find too many people arguing that teachers shouldn't make more. However, with the extra money should come with level of expectation of increased service/performance. Hence the last 6 pages of discussions surrounding the installation of performance metrics and redoing the comp plan. Now, there are many varieties of thought on how to install these, and what those should even be. But, the Union will not entertain the discussion, and in not doing so, teachers are impacted negatively because those who perform well are held down in salary by those who don't perform. As a taxpayer, I'm going to fight against salary changes unless there are performance metrics tied to incentive increases.
Auto workers? Personally I would have left that one out. Take a stroll through NE Ohio lately?
None of the examples you shared are comparable to teachers IMO. I would liken teachers to that of Air Traffic Controllers. Or do you not want to discuss that approach?
Actually, I did consider leaving auto workers out, but the UAW was a national asset until it became counterproductive post 1970.
Well that approach would pretty much kill the rest of the school year. I realize it's an added burden on the few tax payers that WV has left. But in the long run I think 1% more for now is less than what it would cost WV families to send their children to privatized schools.
Actually, there is no apples-to-apples comparison. I was merely making the point that strikes, work stoppages, and collective bargaining can be effective means to obtaining equitable wages and benefits.
The problem is Senate Republican want to raise budget concerns regarding the 5% versus 4% pay raise (1/3 of 1% of total WV budget), yet want to phase out the BPP inventory tax (3% of total WV budget) which funds public education.
The problem is Senate Republican want to raise budget concerns regarding the 5% versus 4% pay raise (1/3 of 1% of total WV budget), yet want to phase out the BPP inventory tax (3% of total WV budget) which funds public education.
I was poor college student. They owed it to me, I deserved it. They needed a man along to protect them.
I once worked on a project building a 1300 vacation home resort in WV. I can tell you that some Maryland teachers had second (vacation) homes there. They were doing very well.
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