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What a lot of people don't realize is college football is 99% recruiting. You get top talent year in and year out your going to compete for BCS bowls and titles. I think when RR was here he got very lucky in some of the players he got.....diamond in the roughs.
 
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Wvu21795 said:
What a lot of people don't realize is college football is 99% recruiting. You get top talent year in and year out your going to compete for BCS bowls and titles. I think when RR was here he got very lucky in some of the players he got.....diamond in the roughs.
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rodriguez went after the top players very hard. And he landed a few; Jason Gwaltney, Noel Devine, Raymond Williams (mr Ohio football later charged with murder). He also utilized the old greyshirt rule and got some kids who had issues that would've otherwise been 5 star recruits; Chris Henry, Tyler Benoit. He was a fantastic recruiter. Certainly not just lucky with diamonds in the rough.
 
I wonder if Rich Rod is still going after the top player. He must not be landing them for AZ like he did the Mountaineers. Personally, I think the RR show is over. At least it's over for ole Warez.
 
ThePunish-EER said:
the program average will be 7-9 wins in this league. Dana's doing a good job.
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Well when is the program gonna win 9 games? This year is as good as any to do it. Every other program in the big 12 outside of Oklahoma and Texas should be winning 7-9 games according to their history
 
ColoradoMountaineer said:
You have no idea who Lyons will hire if he gets rid of Dana
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He didn't claim that he did... ....just expressed that he had no faith and preferred not taking the risk vs. the potential 'reward'.

You certainly can't claim that he should 'feel' diff....because faith is relative to each individual.
 
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LowFatMilk said:
He didn't claim that he did... ....just expressed that he had no faith and preferred not taking the risk vs. the potential 'reward'.

You certainly can't claim that he should 'feel' diff....because faith is relative to each individual.
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You can't make a claim either way. He said he'd rather keep dana than having some good ole boy? How can you even suggest he would hire some good ole boy. What has Lyons done that makes you come to that conclusion
 
ColoradoMountaineer said:
You can't make a claim either way. He said he'd rather keep dana than having some good ole boy? How can you even suggest he would hire some good ole boy. What has Lyons done that makes you come to that conclusion
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It's wasn't my suggestion and I expressed no conclusion (regarding the hiring of a new coach).

Here's what I see when I read his post: (New coach) X (lack of faith in Lyons) = (uncertainty in new hire) which has a value that has the high potential < (current coach).

You're seeing something different regarding his post...an absolute. When a person uses words like 'faith' and 'just my opinion' he's not expressing what he believes to be facts (although time could prove them to be just that...). You're actually using his variables as an invitation to fill in the blanks and manipulate what he posted.
 
LowFatMilk said:
It's wasn't my suggestion and I expressed no conclusion (regarding the hiring of a new coach).

Here's what I see when I read his post: (New coach) X (lack of faith in Lyons) = (uncertainty in new hire) which has a value that has the high potential < (current coach).

You're seeing something different regarding his post...an absolute. When a person uses words like 'faith' and 'just my opinion' he's not expressing what he believes to be facts (although time could prove them to be just that...). You're actually using his variables as an invitation to fill in the blanks and manipulate what he posted.
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If your using the words lack of faith then you are drawing a conclusion in itself.
 
ColoradoMountaineer said:
If your using the words lack of faith then you are drawing a conclusion in itself.
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Yea... …so ? The conclusion is that another poster doesn't have (faith) trust in Lyons.

It's not unusual for people to wait until faith (trust) is earned by whatever standards they choose. One poster expressed his threshold hasn't been reached or that it he has a negative opinion in regard to Lyons.

Why you feel you can define the opinion or relative standards of other people is odd. Reel in that ego....
 
LowFatMilk said:
Yea... …so ? The conclusion is that another poster doesn't have (faith) trust in Lyons.

It's not unusual for people to wait until faith (trust) is earned by whatever standards they choose. One poster expressed his threshold hasn't been reached or that it he has a negative opinion in regard to Lyons.

Why you feel you can define the opinion or relative standards of other people is odd. Reel in that ego....
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I haven't really come to any conclusions regarding Lyons. He hasn't been on the job long enough to say whether he is doing a good job or not and i don't see how anybody else could either. You seem to like to define opinions of other people yourself so i don't see what the difference is
 
ColoradoMountaineer said:
Baylor only returns 10 starters 5 on offense and 5 on defense. They have to replace 4 of 5 offense lineman their best wr and 6 starters from a defense that was below average. Baylor is not a blood blood they have only had 1 top 25 recruiting class since we have been members of the big 12 and that was last season. the majority of the recruits won't make an impact until a few years. TCU has to replace 4-5 starters on the O line along with their QB and best WR. They are in better shape on defense then baylor but still have a fair share of question marks on that side of the ball and since they have had only 1 top 25 class since joining the Big 12 which was last year they aren't blue bloods either. Okie state only returns 9 total starters from last years team they are not blue bloods. WVU had a top 25 class in 2013 which should have more of an impact this season. The home schedule is favorable if DH is the coach you claim him to be then their is no reason he can't compete for a top 3 finish considering the majority of the teams are taking a step back. The future is now
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Hey !!! Don't overlook Okie lite..Barry Jr.just transferred from Stanford to the Pokes for more playing ×..IJS..
ColoradoMountaineer said:
Baylor only returns 10 starters 5 on offense and 5 on defense. They have to replace 4 of 5 offense lineman their best wr and 6 starters from a defense that was below average. Baylor is not a blood blood they have only had 1 top 25 recruiting class since we have been members of the big 12 and that was last season. the majority of the recruits won't make an impact until a few years. TCU has to replace 4-5 starters on the O line along with their QB and best WR. They are in better shape on defense then baylor but still have a fair share of question marks on that side of the ball and since they have had only 1 top 25 class since joining the Big 12 which was last year they aren't blue bloods either. Okie state only returns 9 total starters from last years team they are not blue bloods. WVU had a top 25 class in 2013 which should have more of an impact this season. The home schedule is favorable if DH is the coach you claim him to be then their is no reason he can't compete for a top 3 finish considering the majority of the teams are taking a step back. The future is now
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ColoradoMountaineer said:
I haven't really come to any conclusions regarding Lyons. He hasn't been on the job long enough to say whether he is doing a good job or not and i don't see how anybody else could either.
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So you agree with GetYourNumbersUp...just not how to deal with the results of understanding each other.

His choice would be not to risk 'hiring a good 'ol boy' ...and yours would be blind faith (interesting...faith). Neither are right or wrong...but both are so similar based on the lack of info....that you are simply debating yourself and are in complete agreement with me.

It's an opinion...faith...a gut feeling that is relative to each individual.
 
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LowFatMilk said:
So you agree with GetYourNumbersUp...just not how to deal with the results of understanding each other.

His choice would be not to risk 'hiring a good 'ol boy' ...and yours would be blind faith (interesting...faith). Neither are right or wrong...but both are so similar based on the lack of info....that you are simply debating yourself and are in complete agreement with me.

It's an opinion...faith...a gut feeling that is relative to each individual.
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Well no i don't. I think if Lyons where to fire DH he would be sending a message that 7-5 isn't good enough and i doubt he would hire a good ole boy if he expected better than 7-5. this is just you putting words into my mouth but im not surprised considering you spent the entire final four weekend starting thread after thread about how the big 12 sucked in basketball
 
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First of all, Lyons has never had to make a hire like this before, so he's completely inexperienced and I fear that he is capable of being strong armed by some donors that want "their guy."

Also, the way in which Lyons got cold feet and completely botched the situation with Dana this offseason doesn't give me any confidence in him. Some of the things he has mentioned to the media have been troubling and lead me to think he is incompetent.
 
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GetYaNumbersUp said:
I mean, define "winning enough games"

If we keep winning 8 games i see no reason to make a coaching change.
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"Keep" winning 8 games? That word choice implies he's been doing it regularly, which of course isn't true at all since joining the Big 12. In fact, the primary reason we finally did so in 2015 was because Georgia Southern replaced Alabama on the schedule.

I don't know about you, but I define "winning enough games" as needing to do better than 15-21 in Big 12 games. Of the 14 schools who have ever been members of this league, only WVU has never finished a season more than one game above .500 in conference play. We haven't made a dent in the conference race despite our expansion cousins TCU having already won a share of the title during the same short timeframe. The fact is we've been nothing but a middle-of-the-pack also-ran at best.

It's also highly problematic that, for all the baseless claims about how Holgorsen is "building the program" and how recruiting is "getting better and better", we had an identical conference record (4-5) in Year 4 with a roster of "Big 12 recruits" as we did in Year 1 (4-5) with a roster composed entirely of "New Big East recruits" that some here love to belittle so much.

If 8-5 were the average performance since we joined the Big 12, the board--and the national media--wouldn't be having this conversation about Holgorsen's job situation. When a single 8-5 season is the high-water mark instead, that's the very essence of hot seats and not "winning enough games." As a person who has sat both sides of the fence on him at various times, you ought to know that by now.
 
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GoWVU said:
"Keep" winning 8 games? That word choice implies he's been doing it regularly, which of course isn't true at all since joining the Big 12. In fact, the primary reason we finally did so in 2015 was because Georgia Southern replaced Alabama on the schedule.

I don't know about you, but I define "winning enough games" as needing to do better than 15-21 in Big 12 games. Of the 14 schools who have ever been members of this league, only WVU has never finished a season more than one game above .500 in conference play. We haven't made a dent in the conference race despite our expansion cousins TCU having already won a share of the title during the same short timeframe. The fact is we've been nothing but a middle-of-the-pack also-ran at best.

It's also highly problematic that, for all the baseless claims about how Holgorsen is "building the program" and how recruiting is "getting better and better", we had an identical conference record (4-5) in Year 4 with a roster of "Big 12 recruits" as we did in Year 1 (4-5) with a roster composed entirely of "New Big East recruits" that some here love to belittle so much.

If 8-5 were the average performance since we joined the Big 12, the board--and the national media--wouldn't be having this conversation about Holgorsen's job situation. When a single 8-5 season is the high-water mark instead, that's the very essence of hot seats and not "winning enough games." As a person who has sat both sides of the fence on him at various times, you ought to know that by now.
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some of you overvalue the program. That's the real problem here. Several fans like yourself became spoiled by the Rich Rod years believing WVU was a blue blood program. Truth is, WVU is not. Make no mistake, WVU is a solid program with a solid tradition. However, WVU is not Ohio state or Alabama. WVU is performing about par for the program right now in terms of wins. The difference is, holgorsen has WVU a notch or two better by averaging 7 wins in a much tougher league than the old/new big east. 7 win seasons is all Nehlen could do in a weaker big east. Dana equals those 7 win averages playing a much tougher league. It is safe to say, Dana would have WVU winning 9-10 games a year in that old/new big east. Proof shows he did just that (10 wins) in his only year of the big east. Say what you will, believe what you want. WVU is doing what they have always done; 7-9 win seasons.
 
Valid points, guys. But last year could have and should have been a 10 win season even with the #53 rated QB in the FBS. Play calling and strategy lost two games that should have been won. It's also worrisome for the upcoming season that Chugs, Stills or Crest show no sign of beating out the worst QB in the Big 12 for 2015.

Whether that is justified or simple bias in favor of the returning player I don't know. 2017 appears to be resolved at QB for whoever the HC is with Grier, though. Anyone else going to the Spring game?
 
It is not a joke. He was #53 for FBS schools, which was the worst in the Big 12. Here is the link It does only count those who threw at least 400 passes for the year.
 
michaelwalkerbr said:
It is not a joke. He was #53 for FBS schools, which was the worst in the Big 12. Here is the link It does only count those who threw at least 400 passes for the year.
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So I guess Deshaun Watson (one of the Heisman runner ups) is the 12th best QB and Dak Prescott can't even break the top 20. I think you need your eyes checked.

Howard isn't great, but to say he's the worst in the Big 12 is beyond stupid.
 
ThePunish-EER said:
some of you overvalue the program. That's the real problem here. Several fans like yourself became spoiled by the Ri--ch Rod years believing WVU was a blue blood program. Truth is, WVU is not. Make no mistake, WVU is a solid program with a solid tradition. However, WVU is not Ohio state or Alabama. WVU is performing about par for the program right now in terms of wins. The difference is, holgorsen has WVU a notch or two better by averaging 7 wins in a much tougher league than the old/new big east. 7 win seasons is all Nehlen could do in a weaker big east. Dana equals those 7 win averages playing a much tougher league. It is safe to say, Dana would have WVU winning 9-10 games a year in that old/new big east. Proof shows he did just that (10 wins) in his only year of the big east. Say what you will, believe what you want. WVU is doing what they have always done; 7-9 win seasons.
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Baylor, TTech, Tcu , Okie state, Kansas, Iowa state, Kansas state are not Alabama and Ohio state. None of them are blue bloods and to say that Dana is getting 2 more wins out of the program is complete nonsense. Dana won 8 games last year against weak competition. a win against a 7-6 Ttech team was the only win against a power five opponent. allot of average coaches could have produced the same results that Dana did. How do you know this team would win 10 games in the old/New big east with Memphis and Houston. The quality of QB play has taken a step back since Dana has been here
 
GoWVU said:
"Keep" winning 8 games? That word choice implies he's been doing it regularly, which of course isn't true at all since joining the Big 12. In fact, the primary reason we finally did so in 2015 was because Georgia Southern replaced Alabama on the schedule.

I don't know about you, but I define "winning enough games" as needing to do better than 15-21 in Big 12 games. Of the 14 schools who have ever been members of this league, only WVU has never finished a season more than one game above .500 in conference play. We haven't made a dent in the conference race despite our expansion cousins TCU having already won a share of the title during the same short timeframe. The fact is we've been nothing but a middle-of-the-pack also-ran at best.

It's also highly problematic that, for all the baseless claims about how Holgorsen is "building the program" and how recruiting is "getting better and better", we had an identical conference record (4-5) in Year 4 with a roster of "Big 12 recruits" as we did in Year 1 (4-5) with a roster composed entirely of "New Big East recruits" that some here love to belittle so much.

If 8-5 were the average performance since we joined the Big 12, the board--and the national media--wouldn't be having this conversation about Holgorsen's job situation. When a single 8-5 season is the high-water mark instead, that's the very essence of hot seats and not "winning enough games." As a person who has sat both sides of the fence on him at various times, you ought to know that by now.
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Its funny how winning 8 games last year was a major accomplishment considering the only win against a power 5 team with a winning record came against Ttech and they finished 7-6. If there really willing to settle for 7 win seasons then they should be endorsing the firing of DH. We could hire some average coach who will produce the same average results and pay him the entry level rate for coaches. Give him 4-5 years of 7 wins and fire him and do the same thing over again. Hell lets run the program like some cheap major league baseball operation
 
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GetYaNumbersUp said:
So I guess Deshaun Watson (one of the Heisman runner ups) is the 12th best QB and Dak Prescott can't even break the top 20. I think you need your eyes checked.

Howard isn't great, but to say he's the worst in the Big 12 is beyond stupid.
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My eyes are fine, the numbers are correct whether you believe them or not. Try this if it makes it easier for you to comprehend, from a recent B/R article: "Howard threw for 3,145 yards and 26 touchdowns last year as a junior, but he was intercepted 14 times and his 54.8 completion rate was worst among FBS quarterbacks with at least 400 pass attempts. He threw for 532 yards and five TDs in the Cactus Bowl win over Arizona State but also had two interceptions and finished the year with four games where he had a sub-50 percent completion rate."
 
ColoradoMountaineer said:
Baylor, TTech, Tcu , Okie state, Kansas, Iowa state, Kansas state are not Alabama and Ohio state. None of them are blue bloods and to say that Dana is getting 2 more wins out of the program is complete nonsense. Dana won 8 games last year against weak competition. a win against a 7-6 Ttech team was the only win against a power five opponent. allot of average coaches could have produced the same results that Dana did. How do you know this team would win 10 games in the old/New big east with Memphis and Houston. The quality of QB play has taken a step back since Dana has been here
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ColoradoMountaineer said:
Its funny how winning 8 games last year was a major accomplishment considering the only win against a power 5 team came against Ttech and they finished 7-6. If there really willing to settle for 7 win seasons then they should be endorsing the firing of DH. We could hire some average coach who will produce the same average results and pay him the entry level rate for coaches. Give him 4-5 years of 7 wins and fire him and do the same thing over again. Hell lets run the program like some cheap major league baseball operation
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if you're gonna attempt to debate, at least have your facts correct. 1 win against a P5 team? Did you fall asleep during the bowl game against Arizona state? Nobody takes you seriously when you follow that mistake up with, "Dana won 8 games last year against weak competition". For god sakes son lmao!!
 
ThePunish-EER said:
if you're gonna attempt to debate, at least have your facts correct. 1 win against a P5 team? Did you fall asleep during the bowl game against Arizona state? Nobody takes you seriously when you follow that mistake up with, "Dana won 8 games last year against weak competition". For god sakes son lmao!!
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Ttech was the only win DH had against a power 5 team with a winning record last year that is a fact. Arizona state finished the year 6-7. Wvu was winning BCS bowls and beating teams much better than 6-6 pac 12 schools . There was no significant win last year face it
 
ThePunish-EER said:
if you're gonna attempt to debate, at least have your facts correct. 1 win against a P5 team? Did you fall asleep during the bowl game against Arizona state? Nobody takes you seriously when you follow that mistake up with, "Dana won 8 games last year against weak competition". For god sakes son lmao!!
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To be factual he beat Texas, Kansas, Iowa state Arizona state which are all power five teams but all had losing records in the end no big accomplishment there Last year was nothing but mediocrity son
 
ColoradoMountaineer said:
Ttech was the only win DH had against a power 5 team with a winning record last year that is a fact. Arizona state finished the year 6-7. Wvu was winning BCS bowls and beating teams much better than 6-6 pac 12 schools . There was no significant win last year face it
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ColoradoMountaineer said:
To be factual he beat Texas, Kansas, Iowa state Arizona state which are all power five teams but all had losing records in the end no big accomplishment there Last year was nothing but mediocrity son
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im not sure your point is valid at all. You are insinuating Dana hasn't beaten anyone. That is not true. In fact, he has beaten several good to great teams in his tenure at WVU.
 
michaelwalkerbr said:
My eyes are fine, the numbers are correct whether you believe them or not. Try this if it makes it easier for you to comprehend, from a recent B/R article: "Howard threw for 3,145 yards and 26 touchdowns last year as a junior, but he was intercepted 14 times and his 54.8 completion rate was worst among FBS quarterbacks with at least 400 pass attempts. He threw for 532 yards and five TDs in the Cactus Bowl win over Arizona State but also had two interceptions and finished the year with four games where he had a sub-50 percent completion rate."
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In Big 12 conference games Howard had the 91st highest QB rating of 110.13 and the 99th highest completion rate of 50.4%. Howard is a fighter and intense competitor, he simply is not a consistently acurate passer and will likely never be. He will continue to start for WVU though, allegedly because he 'knows the offense better than any QB Coach Holgorsen has had'.

That simply tells me that so far none of the others can throw the ball significantly better than him. I hope one of them steps up before game one of 2016 for the team as well as Coach Holgorsen's sake. If it happens to be Howard, good for him!
 
ThePunish-EER said:
im not sure your point is valid at all. You are insinuating Dana hasn't beaten anyone. That is not true. In fact, he has beaten several good to great teams in his tenure at WVU.
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Well he didn't beat anyone of significance last season. You can talk about wins against Baylor and Oklahoma state all you want but they are negated by the pathetic performances against Iowa state and Kansas and that Maryland game in Baltimore was just putrid. You state that Holgorson is winning 2 more games a year than he should be when in actuality he is blowing 2 games a year with bone headed play calling and clock management. The 4th and 1 play call against K state was pathetic. trying to run a qb with a bum ankle on 4th and 1 and that 2014 meltdown in the 4th quarter against TCU sent the team into the tank. You should be praising Lyons for keeping DH. There are quite a few AD's that would have given him the pink slip. In today's college football coaches that go 7-5 routinely don't keep there job and Luck wasn't exactly giving DH a ringing endorsement in his final days at Wvu. I find it kinda funny that both of DH's best offensive performance happened with Bill stewarts players
 
michaelwalkerbr said:
In Big 12 conference games Howard had the 91st highest QB rating of 110.13 and the 99th highest completion rate of 50.4%. Howard is a fighter and intense competitor, he simply is not a consistently acurate passer and will likely never be. He will continue to start for WVU though, allegedly because he 'knows the offense better than any QB Coach Holgorsen has had'.

That simply tells me that so far none of the others can throw the ball significantly better than him. I hope one of them steps up before game one of 2016 for the team as well as Coach Holgorsen's sake. If it happens to be Howard, good for him!
Click to expand...

Howards QB rating was 27.5 against Texas Tech. Ttech had the 2nd worst defense in college football last season
 
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only time will tell the fate of this staff & the ability of Lyons both. football staff has been given a lot of chances. it is 15-21 overall in BXII play. It just is & I take no joy in the fact. yep, it's a tough league. but there's also been some darn good players on our side during this stretch.

Didn't the former good ole boy network land Rodriguez, Beilein and Huggins? Not a perfect tenure, but there's worse things that that. In '07, WV won the Big East, Fiesta Bowl, finished top 10. Hoops won 26 games, went to Sweet 16 after upsetting 2 Duke. Has there been a better football-bball season combo than that in school history?
 
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pressvirginia said:
only time will tell the fate of this staff & the ability of Lyons both. football staff has been given a lot of chances. it is 15-21 overall in BXII play. It just is & I take no joy in the fact. yep, it's a tough league. but there's also been some darn good players on our side during this stretch.

Didn't the former good ole boy network land Rodriguez, Beilein and Huggins? Not a perfect tenure, but there's worse things that that. In '07, WV won the Big East, Fiesta Bowl, finished top 10. Hoops won 26 games, went to Sweet 16 after upsetting 2 Duke. Has there been a better football-bball season combo than that in school history?
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I don't believe there has, but it's not over yet! As a lifelong Mountaineer fan, I gotta believe. Every year all WVU athletic teams start out undefeated.
 
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