OU is now riding the coattails of a true freshman QB who did not even play football last year. Will our true freshman ever be ready? Go figure!
True Freshman ready to play
- Thread starter Woodie
- Start date
Pat White played as a true freshman if I recall. The primary reason to play a true freshman isn't if that freshman is ready to really compete, its if you have no other options better than that player on your roster.
Amen! Doesn’t matter how many stars you have, learning the playbook is what’s important when our QB situation for whatever reason is so pathetic. Nothing to lose this year by playing Crowder.
If I recall correctly, PW was beaten out preseason by Adam Bednarik. Pat had to go into the Louisville game when Bednarik was injured. Bet Louisville wished they hadn’t put our starter out of that game. Anyway, I think it shows coaches can have a reluctance to go with talent over experience. Even Oklahoma was slow to take out Rattler for Williams. Just a guess, but I think the coaches are afraid of TOs. Although that doesn’t add up well for us as JD has had more than his share of those. It does make me wonder what the coaches see when they watch film and run practices.
Adam Bednarik was the starter in 2005, but Pat still played some even when Bednarik was not injured. The very first game against Syracuse White played a few series. Ultimately the coaching staff thought Bednarik had the better upside either because of practice or in game performance. Whatever the reason, they still played White because of his potential and despite being wrong on who the better player was between him and Bednarik, they figured he was the future when Bednarik was finished. Turns out once White got a few series he came into his own. Let's not forget that Slaton and the O-line coming to life really helped Pat out as they did the majority of the work. However Pat was still vital given I believe he converted a 4th and 20 with his feet in that Louisville game.
You might want to do some research. Pat White was a redshirt freshmen when he replaced Bednarik in the Louisville game.
You are correct, Pat was a redshirt freshman. Slaton was the true freshman. That being said, I appreciate you going out of your way to come off as a smug dick about it.
Its also easier for a true freshman to play at Oklahoma when he is surrounded by 4-5 star players not exactly what wvu has
I never stated a fact, I just stated what I recalled from memory. Most people who use any variation of "you should do some research" generally are doing so in condescension which is kind of dickish. So I apologize for jumping to conclusions if that is not what you meant.
Oh haven't you heard? Stars no longer matter according to OP.
Stars only matter when it's convenient for their opinions.
You're the one who brought up "stars" doofus. We don't have to worry about recruiting rankings at wvu. KNEEL CLOWN can't keep recruits anyway. Might as well go to all walk ons under this joker.
Look a big fish.
2022 3rd in Big 12 24th overall
2021 4th in Big 12 37th overall
2020 4th in Big12 41st overall
2019 moved holgs numbers of 9 and 81 to 7th Big 12 and 47 nationally.
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Once again you dance and dodge and try to steer the conversation away from your off center previous post. Just can't concentrate can you doofus?
#THIS!
QB's, like HC, always receive far to much blame+praise. The talent around a player is definitely a major factor in any position's success. Talent & scheme thats the game we play. While we have def seen poor QB play, our OL have not played well AT ALL. They are all very talented, just extremely young to be on the field for a traditionally developmental program like WVU.
That said, There are instances when a certain players skillset can help alleviate other "stress fractures". Greene does possess one of those skillsets that will help open up the running game for Leddie, because LBs are frozen with indecisiveness and reduce Def rushes, due to his threat. We've seen this when hes in the game.... LB's, DE's, & Saf go from being overly aggressive playing Leddie & rushing to standing & analyzing...
This should throughout the game also open up the passing game, because LB's & Saf are focused on Leddie & Greene out of the backfield. So it should create an easier read for Greene, and allot him a bit more time to throw.
Like Brown said, Greene needs to leverage a productive & talented WR position group, to continue to incite confusion on opposing Def players & coverages. Thats why a dual threat QB really creates more space on the field, due to the reduction in reaction+responses, and how the threat of running also offers more time to read on drop backs, because a mobile QB, typically slows a pass rush from a schematic play call perspective, because DE's go from a primary objective of sacking to containment.
In essence, it maximizes diversification to reduce offensive predictability. Greene just needs to force himself in practice to read coverages and not immediately take off. Otherwise he becomes predictable and defenses wont respect it, just like they are now with Doege...
Sometimes, you have to use force to break a habit. Which is why Greene should get far more reps now. The more he plays, the better he will become at reading coverages, esp when he feels the repercussions of running every time.. Id much rather he get tossed in the deep end now, and get the majority of primary issues resolved now, then next year. Im sure Brown and staff are also a little hesitant from an installation perspective, and how its impossible to integrate two completely different offenses. We have also seen with Sam James how starting to early can negatively effect confidence, but Greene seems to have Moxy and head strong so I dont see that being an issue for Greene. Though putting him in an offense thats not completely customized to his skillset is somewhat a disservice, even if subtle adjustments are made, its not the same as a complete renovation. I would think Brown & staff are intelligent enough to find that median between building Greene's foundation, gaining applicable experience, and deploying within current confinements that will still nurture positive outcomes this year.
Def hope we see Greene more, but comparing him to PW or other players is not fair to him. Esp considering what is walking out on the field with him. While we are gaining in overall talent & depth, but they are all very young. Its a painfully slow process, but growing pains are something we gotta experience if we want to get where we want to be. While this season isnt a complete wash yet, If we become bowl ineligible soon, I hope Brown shifts his intent to get the younger chaps more time on the field. At least we know OL wont be a major issue next year, which is a major factor in our offensive issues atm. Another reason why I think we see a major step forward in our offense around the middle of next season, as long as Greene gets more time this year, and takes a few steps forward in the offseason. Who knows, Crowder could pass him, at least we will have 3 good young QBs, which bodes well for our future. Just paddling up shit creek at the moment to get to the spring of eternal life
Dana couldn't recruit players and Bill Stewart, by way of Jeff Mullen who he refused to consider replacing, couldn't effectively use players. We need both at WVU. So far Neal has not shown that he is effective at developing and utilizing the players he does have. That raises concerns that even with better players, WVU may still underperform.
I completely agree, we definitely need both. We cant rely on out recruiting, and nobody can out-scheme everyone at all times. We also need 75%-90% of the starting 22 to be upperclassmen..
Personally, I think its to early to accurately identify if Brown can effectively utilize talent. We have to understand we know less than 1 % about this team, its roster, the players skillsets, their pros & cons, schemes, opponents, etc that ANY staff would know.
More importantly, because of the combination of lack of talent & experience, Brown could technically be utilizing > 90% of players production potential. It looks bad to us because we dont know the capability potential of every player. My point, Brown could very well be outperforming as a staff, it doesnt look that way to us, because we all lack the appropriate information needed to draw an accurate guess/analysis. This roster has serious deficiencies, from both a talent & experience perspective, which the worst of combinations. Not saying Brown and staff have not been perfect or cant improve, because they certainly can... Just think its to early to tell where the accountability resides. 50%players/50%staff or 80%players/20%staff Brown could be squeezing almost all he can out of this collection of talent & experience, its impossible to identify that, because we dont have a sample where Brown did not have significant talent & experience limitations.
I will say, while he was at Troy, he seemed to utilize his players well, at a very high rate, far higher than most coaches, by taking a program like Troy and beating LSU @ LSU, Nebraska @ Nebraska, and almost upsetting Clemson @ Clemson. If I had to guess, I think we are seeing massive levels of roster deficiencies and Brown is simply trying to make the best of a bad situation and deploying concepts he feels his players can execute, which is a perspective & application of limitation.(ie predictability).
This is why we must detach emotions from analyzing this staff. Something that is very difficult for majority, as we are all emotionally invested in WVU. Once we have a sample where Brown has the appropriate time to resolve those deficiencies, thats when Ill personally begin analyzing the quality of the staff. When Brown has a talented & experienced upperclassmen OL, a QB thats mobile and can throw more then 20yrds and accurately hit more then just slant routes. When it obvious he has a quality roster, designed for his vision, thats when we can see what our ceiling may be under this staff. Who knows, Brown may hire new assistants too, so Brown himself may identify areas within his staff that are not meeting his expectations. I just think its important to have a diverse collection of data sets & samples before serious conclusions are made, no more.....no less. If year 5 rolls around and we still see the same issues, Ill be the first calling for......adjustments.
Another reason why IM extremely hesitant to criticize this atff at the moment... This is NOT a case of blatant under performance from a staff perspective. Where the program and/or previous regime recruited very well like Texas, Auburn, LSU, Tennesse, USC, UF, Miami, FSU, etc with 3-15 consecutive Top 10-15 recruiting classes but have managed to only get 5,6,7 wins... Brown inherited a program that would have ranked in the 70-80 range from a talent perspective, and was one of the youngest teams in all of D1 in 2019.
If DH had been recruiting in the high 20's-30's in 2015,2016,2017, I would be a bit more quick to critique, but those were DH's worst recruiting years, which would have been upperclassmen for Brown in 2019, 2020, & 2021. So its not like a Tom Herman situation where he has several top5 classes, and hits 7 wins... Or a Pruitt situation where he has several top 15 classes for a few years before he was hired and a few during his regime but drastically under performed... There are many obvious cases where a staff are under performing relative to talent & experience. That is certainly not the case here.
Lets see what Brown can do when he walks our team onto the field and every player is his recruit. Thats when we can be sure in our opinion. At least for me anways..
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I think to follow 2 full seasons with a possible losing season, even possibly as bad as 3-9, is underperforming by any estimation. Unless it's a rash of injuries, somewhere along the coaching staff's responsibility is a deficiency to be this bad in year 3. Maybe I'm wrong, but coaches that have gone on to have great careers usually improved across 3 seasons
If you correlate talent to wins, it actually makes sense being 2017 was the worst recruiting year in that horrendous 3 year stretch by DH. IT ranked 57th...... and that is with all the top players included that are no longer at WVU, nor have been at WVU for a few years...
2015 = 35th
2016 = 39th
2017 - 57th
Again, those figures are not subtracting the players that left, quit, transferred, kick out of school, medically retired, failed out of school, etc...
I dont think 2 seasons is nowhere long enough to resolve the level of deficiencies Brown inherited. Not at a progran like WVU. If it were Texas, OU, Bama, etc, sure, but even recruiting at higher levels, you still need them to mature, grow, learn, develop, etc.
Dabo took a major step backward in his 3rd year too, and that was with a far superior roster. Matt Campbell also took a step backward in his 4th year, there are many examples of: 2 steps forward, 1 step back when looking at historical coaching records.
Honestly, that 2019 team was not a 5 win team from a talent+exp perspective. We had a few very lucky plays and Brown did an amazing job getting that team to 5 wins. He should have won an award for that year. To have a coach to outperform just to get to 5 wins, speaks of the dire situation he walked into.
People can say, yeah with portal available now, it shouldnt take that long. BUT.... thats not how Brown wants to build this program for long term consistency. He has a vision for how to build WVU to raise the performance floor & ceiling, and he believes in it so strongly hes not willing to sacrifice long term growth for winning a couple extra games by hitting the transfer portal hard... just to "Lets go win some games"...
I admire his conviction. Brown mentioned in the press conference, how hes not changing his plan, or making wholesale changes, because I think he has a grasp on what the limitations truly are, and the vast majority firmly reside on the roster. Which he resolving in a way the nurtures higher potential & consistency, it just takes longer.
If Brown did not know how to efficiently utilize talent, he would have never beat LSU, Nebraska, and almost upset Clemson while at Troy. Which does not recruit anywhere near the same zip code as those programs.
Granted, there are definitely things the staff can always improve, and I def think they have made a few mistakes this year, but considering all factors, its to early to tell if Brown wont be able to get it done at WVU. This is his 1st P5 HC job too, so I would imagine there are things he will get better at as well.
WVU is not a Miami, FSU, Texas, Tennessee, etc where they recruit at top 10-15 class every year and a new coach is walking into a ready made team that just needs to learn new schemes & terminology.
You could put Nick Saban and staff on the worst team, and you'll not see the same concepts or schemes, game plans, etc because they dont have the talent to deploy them. Same thing in our situation. I think the vast majority of our issues reside with our roster. Again, not saying Brown is perfect or cant improve, because he certainly can.
2.5 years in this situation is not enough time to draw accurate conclusions with regard to staff quality. Thats my opinion of course.
Agree to disagree I suppose...
Good Evening to you TBTFT
Defending KNEEL ClOWN'S lack of success is stupid. A loser is a loser and Brown reeks of the stench of losing.
I was not being condescending. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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