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Pens - - Qualifying Round

Ok. I will take a swing as I am surprisingly sober late here after watching what I knew would happen, I think we all knew would happen....
Sully has lost this team. Thanks for those 2 Cups (seriously a great job) but it is over. Coaches have a shelf life and this one is done. Some will want to overhaul the entire roster and bitch/whine about how weak the team is. Ya, good luck with that lol, I am embarrassed for you if you think that way in today's game.
GMJR? It's likely his terms but suggested to move aside. And IMO He should, it's over now for him. Thanks much like Sully but it'll be a please leave. And do so before Free agency. Both of our heir apparent future GM's are now gone...would you take Botterill back recently fired by that freakin moron Pegula? I would. As for the roster? You all want Jarry between pipes? This is your guy? Is it because he is cheaper, or is he better? Herein lies the crux.. he isn't better based on performance latter in year, and he isn't better in big games, that is a fact. I will offer Murr same based on inflation and offer Jars a slight raise. Seattle is coming and thus play the field properly. We'll never get what Murr is worth in a trade for rights before expansion and we all know this. The goaltending either or, is not our issue. In fact it's far from it , we have two that are 'good enough' I truly believe that. Jettison these D men that are weighing us down, we know EXACTLY who they are, buck up, and do it, those are the contracts to trade or let expire. If it costs half of JJ's number to send him off then do it yesterday. Finally, the bottom 6 is totally and completely abysmal by league standards. Yippie all of a sudden we are bringing in Lafferty to replace McCann? Really...did this excite anybody? About the only one I would say is untouchable is Tanev and nobody wants that contract anyway so fine...the rest of them? Does anyone have another that is a stalwart ? I highly doubt it. Time for a bare knuckles guy on our top six or at least 3rd line that can dole out some serious effort. Horney is getting too old bless his effort...we know what needs to happen here, but many dont want to make the needed adjustments that are entirely possible. This team is IMO mismade entirely to compete as you can tell based on my diatribe. And I would hope you all agree on some if not all of my points....oh well, ho hum.. welcome to the Pens fanbase I guess....The window is closing faster now, blow it up completely and we get nothing . In fact we pay to do so...mitigate, adapt, under a new direction.
 
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eWbF1MB.jpg

Kinda cool pic...seeing as Sid was hacking and whacking at him all series, and 31 managed to get through it... sometime teammates over Olympics. Ok gnight.
 
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torontoeers said:
Ok. I will take a swing as I am surprisingly sober late here after watching what I knew would happen, I think we all knew would happen....
Sully has lost this team. Thanks for those 2 Cups (seriously a great job) but it is over. Coaches have a shelf life and this one is done. Some will want to overhaul the entire roster and bitch/whine about how weak the team is. Ya, good luck with that lol, I am embarrassed for you if you think that way in today's game.
GMJR? It's likely his terms but suggested to move aside. And IMO He should, it's over now for him. Thanks much like Sully but it'll be a please leave. And do so before Free agency. Both of our heir apparent future GM's are now gone...would you take Botterill back recently fired by that freakin moron Pegula? I would. As for the roster? You all want Jarry between pipes? This is your guy? Is it because he is cheaper, or is he better? Herein lies the crux.. he isn't better based on performance latter in year, and he isn't better in big games, that is a fact. I will offer Murr same based on inflation and offer Jars a slight raise. Seattle is coming and thus play the field properly. We'll never get what Murr is worth in a trade for rights before expansion and we all know this. The goaltending either or, is not our issue. In fact it's far from it , we have two that are 'good enough' I truly believe that. Jettison these D men that are weighing us down, we know EXACTLY who they are, buck up, and do it, those are the contracts to trade or let expire. If it costs half of JJ's number to send him off then do it yesterday. Finally, the bottom 6 is totally and completely abysmal by league standards. Yippie all of a sudden we are bringing in Lafferty to replace McCann? Really...did this excite anybody? About the only one I would say is untouchable is Tanev and nobody wants that contract anyway so fine...the rest of them? Does anyone have another that is a stalwart ? I highly doubt it. Time for a bare knuckles guy on our top six or at least 3rd line that can dole out some serious effort. Horney is getting too old bless his effort...we know what needs to happen here, but many dont want to make the needed adjustments that are entirely possible. This team is IMO mismade entirely to compete as you can tell based on my diatribe. And I would hope you all agree on some if not all of my points....oh well, ho hum.. welcome to the Pens fanbase I guess....The window is closing faster now, blow it up completely and we get nothing . In fact we pay to do so...mitigate, adapt, under a new direction.
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All I know is building a team around world class talent is only possble when you have, well, world class talent on the roster. So, unless they find a way to draw Lafreniere's envelope, it's time to begin the retool the way everyone else does it.

Aside how the fan base feels, a really critical question to answer remains if Rutherford is the guy to direct the teardown. Like most, I myself find it hard to believe he'd want to do that at his age. But who knows; he works for terrific ownership, and he's making good coin.

I do find myself wondering if they'll actually consider approaching Geno.....and Sid.....to see if they'd be interested in moving as well (even though both have solid NMC's). We already know Geno is (more or less) on record as wanting play it out in Pittsburgh.....but he's "only" got 2 more years on his current deal. As for Sid, he's WAY more reserved, and we really know far less about how he feels about things in the privacy of his own thoughts.

Anyway, if they decided to move on Rutherford......or if he hangs it up......i myself would NOT oppose Botterill as his replacement (even though I assume SOME would view him as damaged goods). As for Sully......until he (or the franchise) goes public with his intentions.....I'll simply say I don't know. I believe he's got 4 more seasons on his current deal, so you might well need a tow truck to get him out of his office.

OTOH, I myself find it hard to believe he'd want to deal with a rebuild......plus, he'd probably be top replacement choice for any talented, but underachieving, team given his resume.
 
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Just read that if the Pens' Lafreniere envelope isn't pulled on Monday night, they'd get the 15th pick in the Draft. Would you keep that pick......and delay the #1 owed to Minnesota until NEXT season because you figure they'll pick LOWER than that.....or would you send the #15 to Minnesota because you figure the Pens to pick HIGHER than that in 2021 ??

This is a pretty important decision, as it turns out......not sure what I'd do right this second.
 
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COOL MAN said:
Just read that if the Pens' Lafreniere envelope isn't pulled on Monday night, they'd get the 15th pick in the Draft. Would you keep that pick......and delay the #1 owed to Minnesota until NEXT season because you figure they'll pick LOWER than that.....or would you send the #15 to Minnesota because you figure the Pens to pick HIGHER than that in 2021 ??

This is a pretty important decision, as it turns out......not sure what I'd do right this second.
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Hmmm...depending what is viewed as the more pressing need. This year is quite forward heavy and next year has a plethora of D men in the top 15. Right now literally today, I would lean toward hopefully acquiring one of those solid D men.
 
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torontoeers said:
Hmmm...depending what is viewed as the more pressing need. This year is quite forward heavy and next year has a plethora of D men in the top 15. Right now literally today, I would lean toward hopefully acquiring one of those solid D men.
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I'll leave it to you to decide if defense or forward is the more pressing current need.

My own assessment is they seem to have three defensemen in their current Top 6 (Dumo, Marino, and Pettersson) who'd fit a long term rebuild.....plus PO Joseph, who I believe is currently considered to have a reasonable shot. Other than that, I'm not sure they've got a single defenseman in the System with potential much beyond a career minor-leaguer.

At forward......and not including Sid and Geno.....the current roster players who'd seem to be part of a long-term rebuild would be Jake, Rusty, Tanev, Teddy, and I guess Zucker (and possibly ZAR, Simon, and Lafferty). Add Poulin to that list.....and maybe/hopefully some combination of Lagare, Hallander, Bjorkqvist, Bellerive, Almeida, and O'Connor.

But really, nothing significant can begin to happen to this roster until.....and again, not including Sid and Geno (who's only got 2 more years on his deal).......they clear the $16+ million of cap space currently assigned to Letang, Horndog, and Johnson (and I don't include Tricky Nicky since he's only got one year left on his deal).
 
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COOL MAN said:
I'll leave it to you to decide if defense or forward is the more pressing current need.

My own assessment is they seem to have three defensemen in their current Top 6 (Dumo, Marino, and Pettersson) who'd fit a long term rebuild.....plus PO Joseph, who I believe is currently considered to have a reasonable shot. Other than that, I'm not sure they've got a single defenseman in the System with potential much beyond a career minor-leaguer.

At forward......and not including Sid and Geno.....the current roster players who'd seem to be part of a long-term rebuild would be Jake, Rusty, Tanev, Teddy, and I guess Zucker (and possibly ZAR, Simon, and Lafferty). Add Poulin to that list.....and maybe/hopefully some combination of Lagare, Hallander, Bjorkqvist, Bellerive, Almeida, and O'Connor.

But really, nothing significant can begin to happen to this roster until.....and again, not including Sid and Geno (who's only got 2 more years on his deal).......they clear the $16+ million of cap space currently assigned to Letang, Horndog, and Johnson (and I don't include Tricky Nicky since he's only got one year left on his deal).
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As for Geno, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if either he returned to Russia at deal end or even decided to vacate earlier if whomever is in mgmt decided to force the issue of a trade...
 
torontoeers said:
As for Geno, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if either he returned to Russia at deal end or even decided to vacate earlier if whomever is in mgmt decided to force the issue of a trade...
Click to expand...

I don't personally think Geno will sign another NHL contract after pocketing the final $19 million he's still got coming from the Pens. But I also don't believe he'll be anymore amenable to a trade than Phat was. I'll be shocked beyond belief if he plays for anyone else in the NHL but the Pens.
 
So, now we get to see if Montreal's momentum carries over against an opponent playing as well (or better) than they are.....and more importantly, how clean they can keep Price (who never broke a sweat against the Pens after the first 20 minutes of the series).

Hope so......
 
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torontoeers said:
Ok. I will take a swing as I am surprisingly sober late here after watching what I knew would happen, I think we all knew would happen....
Sully has lost this team. Thanks for those 2 Cups (seriously a great job) but it is over. Coaches have a shelf life and this one is done. Some will want to overhaul the entire roster and bitch/whine about how weak the team is. Ya, good luck with that lol, I am embarrassed for you if you think that way in today's game.
GMJR? It's likely his terms but suggested to move aside. And IMO He should, it's over now for him. Thanks much like Sully but it'll be a please leave. And do so before Free agency. Both of our heir apparent future GM's are now gone...would you take Botterill back recently fired by that freakin moron Pegula? I would. As for the roster? You all want Jarry between pipes? This is your guy? Is it because he is cheaper, or is he better? Herein lies the crux.. he isn't better based on performance latter in year, and he isn't better in big games, that is a fact. I will offer Murr same based on inflation and offer Jars a slight raise. Seattle is coming and thus play the field properly. We'll never get what Murr is worth in a trade for rights before expansion and we all know this. The goaltending either or, is not our issue. In fact it's far from it , we have two that are 'good enough' I truly believe that. Jettison these D men that are weighing us down, we know EXACTLY who they are, buck up, and do it, those are the contracts to trade or let expire. If it costs half of JJ's number to send him off then do it yesterday. Finally, the bottom 6 is totally and completely abysmal by league standards. Yippie all of a sudden we are bringing in Lafferty to replace McCann? Really...did this excite anybody? About the only one I would say is untouchable is Tanev and nobody wants that contract anyway so fine...the rest of them? Does anyone have another that is a stalwart ? I highly doubt it. Time for a bare knuckles guy on our top six or at least 3rd line that can dole out some serious effort. Horney is getting too old bless his effort...we know what needs to happen here, but many dont want to make the needed adjustments that are entirely possible. This team is IMO mismade entirely to compete as you can tell based on my diatribe. And I would hope you all agree on some if not all of my points....oh well, ho hum.. welcome to the Pens fanbase I guess....The window is closing faster now, blow it up completely and we get nothing . In fact we pay to do so...mitigate, adapt, under a new direction.
Click to expand...

pens just got bullied out of the playoffs two years in a row. this is more about "want to" than coaching. time to finally make some changes.
 
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Irwineer2 said:
pens just got bullied out of the playoffs two years in a row. this is more about "want to" than coaching. time to finally make some changes.
Click to expand...

I agree. The passion and desire just weren’t there. Outside of the few usual characters midst weren’t willing to make the sacrifice necessary to win. Question is can we over haul the roster enough and add enough grit for Sully to be successful or would it make more sense to relive him and GMJR of their duties and bring in a drill Sargent type coach to motivate the weak ass pussies we currently have. It’s going to be an interesting and short off season.
 
WVRON said:
I agree. The passion and desire just weren’t there. Outside of the few usual characters midst weren’t willing to make the sacrifice necessary to win. Question is can we over haul the roster enough and add enough grit for Sully to be successful or would it make more sense to relive him and GMJR of their duties and bring in a drill Sargent type coach to motivate the weak ass pussies we currently have. It’s going to be an interesting and short off season.
Click to expand...

this is penguins, the coach will always be the fall guy. I'd be fine with a new gm as well. rutherford can't hang on forever. I don't think they need a drill sargent, just a new voice. worked with bylsma, and sullivan.

and lets be honest, this core group has always struggled with playing the game the right way in the playoffs. at this point, its amazing they won 3 cups.
 
WVRON said:
I agree. The passion and desire just weren’t there. Outside of the few usual characters midst weren’t willing to make the sacrifice necessary to win. Question is can we over haul the roster enough and add enough grit for Sully to be successful or would it make more sense to relive him and GMJR of their duties and bring in a drill Sargent type coach to motivate the weak ass pussies we currently have. It’s going to be an interesting and short off season.
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You want a drill sergeant HC with Sid and Geno (and Letang) still representing the heart of the roster ??
 
COOL MAN said:
You want a drill sergeant HC with Sid and Geno (and Letang) still representing the heart of the roster ??
Click to expand...

I’d be fine with moving on from Letang and Geno. Abusing we could get decent compensation and if we could convince Geno it’s time to move on. Doubt it happens but it’s apparent Sully’s message isn’t getting through. But as long as the inmates are running the asylum we won’t win another thing.
 
From Ron Cook's piece in this morning's Pittsburgh Post Gazette, regarding the recent playoff performance by the Pens' key stars:

-Crosby has ONE power play goal in his last 28 playoff games
-Geno has ZERO even-strength goals in his last 16 playoff games
-Letang has ZERO power play goals in his last 66 playoff games

Granted, these statistics are carefully gleaned/massaged to support a negative narrative.......kinda like what keeps the blood flowing from politics on a daily (or hourly) basis. But, at best, these facts are surprising; and at worst, are downright depressing from players representing almost a full 1/3 of their cap.
 
WVRON said:
I’d be fine with moving on from Letang and Geno. Abusing we could get decent compensation and if we could convince Geno it’s time to move on. Doubt it happens but it’s apparent Sully’s message isn’t getting through. But as long as the inmates are running the asylum we won’t win another thing.
Click to expand...

Oh, all evidence is that Letang was floated for trade last off-season, and there's no reason to believe it won't happen again this year.

And he MAY be marginally more attractive to a prospective suitor with only 2 years left on his deal. But I can't imagine too many will dispute how blatant his physical decline has become: and for every good play he makes.....and make no mistake, he still makes them......he seemingly offsets every one with a brain fart.

Judging by his public attitude entering camp last Fall, I myself don't think he likes playing in Pittsburgh anymore.....so he might be a little more open to a deal than in the past. But he's not going to attract much of an exchange at this point, especially if the team refuses to maintain salary as an incentive (and I'm not saying they should).

As for Geno, I'm already on record as believing he'll play out his current deal in Pittsburgh, and then move on voluntarily to Russia afterward (unless maybe he can convince the Rangers, Panthers, or maybe Kings to sign him as a 36 year old FA).
 
COOL MAN said:
Oh, all evidence is that Letang was floated for trade last off-season, and there's no reason to believe it won't happen again this year.

And he MAY be marginally more attractive to a prospective suitor with only 2 years left on his deal. But I can't imagine too many will dispute how blatant his physical decline has become: and for every good play he makes.....and make no mistake, he still makes them......he seemingly offsets every one with a brain fart.

Judging by his public attitude entering camp last Fall, I myself don't think he likes playing in Pittsburgh anymore.....so he might be a little more open to a deal than in the past. But he's not going to attract much of an exchange at this point, especially if the team refuses to maintain salary as an incentive (and I'm not saying they should).

As for Geno, I'm already on record as believing he'll play out his current deal in Pittsburgh, and then move on voluntarily to Russia afterward (unless maybe he can convince the Rangers, Panthers, or maybe Kings to sign him as a 36 year old FA).
Click to expand...

neither one of these guys will leave a place where the "stars" can play consequence free hockey.
 
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FWIW, Dave Molinari said today on DK that "it's hard to imagine a scenario under which the Penguins would part with the (#15) pick for this year". This appears to be based on his belief the team will still be "better-than-average" next season with the normal 16 teams qualifying for the playoffs (which he.....and evidently the team......believes will still include the Penguins).
 
If you haven't heard......the winner of Columbus-Toronto tonight gets the Lightning in Round 1, which means a Blojax win would set up a rematch of last season's biggest (IMO) opening round upset.
 
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Plenty of good banter, and I have my opinions, which will detail furthur but first off....we getting this guy tomorrow at 6pm. THE GUY.
And we all have less to worry bout all of a sudden...
 
COOL MAN said:
If you haven't heard......the winner of Columbus-Toronto tonight gets the Lightning in Round 1, which means a Blojax win would set up a rematch of last season's biggest (IMO) opening round upset.
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I will prefer the Leaves win tonight, and get waxed next round. This 'leaves ' them out of the sweepstakes. Although Columbus I'd hate to see get him, I'd rather that than the local yokels. Nevermind though. He is OURS.
 
Irwineer2 said:
good lord could you imagine the outrage.
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It would be epic! I can hear the conspiracy theorists now. The Pens threw the Habs series because Bettman was putting the fix in for the Pens to win the lottery. And if that happened I’d be thrilled we exited quickly.
 
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Irwineer2 said:
good lord could you imagine the outrage.
Click to expand...
WVRON said:
It would be epic! I can hear the conspiracy theorists now. The Pens threw the Habs series because Bettman was putting the fix in for the Pens to win the lottery. And if that happened I’d be thrilled we exited quickly.
Click to expand...
If we do, I am purchasing 2 of these and sending to both of you. Mark it down now.
YkVP1r2.jpg
 
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WVRON said:
Don’t squash my dream brother. Lol!
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Can this team recover for a shortened season and another run or is this over?

only thing to talk about until the nfl gets going, so we may as well get it out of the way.
 
Irwineer2 said:
Can this team recover for a shortened season and another run or is this over?

only thing to talk about until the nfl gets going, so we may as well get it out of the way.
Click to expand...
Let's see what happens tomorrow at 6pm. As an outside shot as it is, they have the same shot as the other 7 teams, so we'll take it. In saying that, to 'blow it up' when we have Sid /Geno on contract no matter what the next two years to me seems ridiculous. No matter what their performance was this year. Jettison that which you can and attempt to instill some sense of discipline (yet again). When in a full season they miss the playoffs? Ya, blow it to smithereens.
 
torontoeers said:
Let's see what happens tomorrow at 6pm. As an outside shot as it is, they have the same shot as the other 7 teams, so we'll take it. In saying that, to 'blow it up' when we have Sid /Geno on contract no matter what the next two years to me seems ridiculous. No matter what their performance was this year. Jettison that which you can and attempt to instill some sense of discipline (yet again). When in a full season they miss the playoffs? Ya, blow it to smithereens.
Click to expand...

at this point, discipline will never take with malkin and frenchy. boy has frenchy thrown his talent away by being uncoachable. guy has all world talent and never did much with it because he couldn't be taught.
 
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Irwineer2 said:
at this point, discipline will never take with malkin and frenchy. boy has frenchy thrown his talent away by being uncoachable. guy has all world talent and never did much with it because he couldn't be taught.
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Now that the Leaves have crashed and burned again let's try and snow / convince them Tanger is the quarterback they need... :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
 
Irwineer2 said:
they could never get him under their cap.
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One of their top 4 F is coming off the books, likely Nylander ...mark it down. Barrie will not be re-signed. There is plenty of room after that. 2 years left for Tanger is manageable for them. I really think they are stupid enough to swing for him...KNOWING they need a vet puck moving D. Although I would balk at taking Nylander in return.
 
Well, here's one that made my jaw drop a bit... listening to the Hockey Central radio panel now here. Not sure which talking head it was that floated it (I think maybe Johnson) but...Sully goes and in comes Pope Babcock?!? This notion gives me a serious amount of heebee jeebees but....discuss lol.
 
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