It's official

[WB67hawk]

Dana would have taken an extension with no buyout.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

Lyons wanted to give him a $1.3 million raise. Dana refused it.

 

[HurdyGurdyEer]

StealHead .... every time I look at that fish I just say "Wow!"

How long did you battle that sucker, where did you catch it, and what did you catch it with?

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

this is the same fanbase that ran bobby Bowden off. What do you expect?

No, but he'd get a job if fired. Why you're arguing this, I don't know.

Firing Dana isnt good enough for you folks, you'll only he happy if he's fired, totally unemployable, broke, and living in his parents basement.

No one was knocking down the door to hire Stewart either. They were for RR and how did that turn out?

Apparently, you want them to be good, but not good enough to have any options?

DH reputation as coach only matters to the people who do the hiring. If he where to be fired next season the odd's of him getting a job as an OC would be good. The odds of him getting a HC at a P5 school would be slim to none. If he was offered a HC position it would be at a smaller school in a lesser conference. anyway you look at it he would be taking a step down

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

Personally, I like Coach Holgorsen as well as A D Lyons. 2016 was supposed to be THE year but it is not looking that way anymore. Early departures and losing a cornerbacks coach changes things. The defense will have so many new starters it will be tough at least for the first half of the season, and I am a Coach Gibson fan.

The offensive backfield is questionable at best, but could be good or bad. Coach gets 10 wins he's not going anywhere except to Lyons' office to talk about his contract. His resume' is not quite there yet. At 10 wins he should get Coach of the year. Five or six wins and we all know what happens.

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

Personally, I like Coach Holgorsen as well as A D Lyons. 2016 was supposed to be THE year but it is not looking that way anymore. Early departures and losing a cornerbacks coach changes things. The defense will have so many new starters it will be tough at least for the first half of the season, and I am a Coach Gibson fan.

The offensive backfield is questionable at best, but could be good or bad. Coach gets 10 wins he's not going anywhere except to Lyons' office to talk about his contract. His resume' is not quite there yet. At 10 wins he should get Coach of the year. Five or six wins and we all know what happens.

I think if he wins 9 games he is guaranteed to be back for 2017 if he chooses. I think at 8 its 50/50 anything less he's done

 

[TexasforevEER]

I am in continuous contact with the 'shiny shoes' and know that Dana's job is safe thru 2017..............no matter how many wins he gets...................or doesn't get. It would take an act of the department of war to get rid of him before then.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

I'm sure 4 - 8 would bring him back for 2017. How do you fire a coach for that? I'm in occasional contact with a couple of guys who wear cleats and they say, "Homey don't think so!"

Actually, the Department of War or more accurately the United States War Department ended in 1947. They don't act very often now. When they do, they have to call a nurse.

 

[Rootmaster]

It is truly comical to see DH homeboys say things like he is incredible, a better coach than people give him credit for, or the best one...that he is better liked outside the WVU fan base than within. LOL. The proof as a HC is performance . After Geno left in year two (along with a lot of BS recruits who were finished) WVU has gone a stellar 19-19 under DH...including an 11-16 Big 12-2=10 record. Thank goodness for the Libertys of the football universe. Now that is something that truly is non-incredible. LOLx2.

 

[steeleer]

I seriously have no clue what you mean by Trail Law.

Digs in and fights for every last cent? You're talking about $3 million + dollars. I don't know what kind of money you're banking, but that's the kind of dough I'm willing to fight over. If that's just dollars and cents to you, that's great but in the real world that's not the kind of cash people walk away from just to "play ball". WVU gave him the contract, they have an obligation to fulfill it. Just because they don't like the deal anymore, doesn't mean DH should forfeit what's owed to him and it's downright sleazy that you suggest otherwise.

If Lyons makes an emotional decision to fire DH simply because he didn't like his negotiation position, then Lyons is unfit for his job, and in my opinion, DH was even more smart for how he handled it. However, I believe Lyons is much smarter than that, so it's not something I'll worry about.

If Dana gets 8 wins and 1 good upset, and gets fired, then he'll walk away with the remainder of his contract - what he's owed. If he gets 9-10 wins, then WVU will probably enter a new agreement with him. Either way, DH is making the smart play for himself.

Basically, the argument you're making is that DH should forfeit his buy-out clause, just so Shane Lyons isn't mad at him - LOL.

Can't make this stuff up.

Ok. I meant trial law. It's not a huge leap in spelling there.

I know you love to think you're right, but unless he knows he's gone either way then yes he needs to give up at least a large chunk of the payoff in order to get his extension. WVU will take no other deal....period and Lyons would be dumb to do otherwise. Dana would be equally dumb to not concede some.

Lyons will have his job in 2017 no matter what Dana does or doesn't do. Dana lacks that same assurance. People make emotional decisions all the time. Lyons wouldn't be the first. He literally decides whether Dana comes back in 2017 and can make his exit after next season either pleasant or unpleasant. Again, how excited is his next job going to be if Lyons drags his name through the mud?

If he can negotiate an extension and get us to regular 9 win seasons for the next couple years he will get at least 4mil a year for the next 3 years thereafter as opposed to digging his heels, getting canned. Count his 4 mil while settling for a job for 500-600k a year with no assurance he will ever get that shot again.

You obviously don't think like this. I do. I've made concessions in my contract 3 years ago that will benefit me when my new contract comes up in 2 months and will do so until I decide to retire. It sucked in the short term, but I've matured to the point where I realize that sometimes you can't sweat the short term stuff when you know you are good at what you do and have several years to get that back as long as you don't burn bridges along the way.

 

[coalcountry52]

I decided my time was better spent providing info to those that actually care and can be respectful to one another. That doesn't mean everyone on this board is a trouble maker but I see no reason to waste my time after some of the things I've read from a few. Those of you that use both boards know that I've provided a great deal of detail on all of this and it's far from one sided or the AD screwing it up.

Dana was given a chance to sign a new contract and while it was far more favorable to WVU it was the best they felt they could offer based on the progress or lack of that they've (AD) seen. The biggest problem I see is fans throwing out comments without giving any consideration to why WVU is in this position. The AD is concerned about the future of the program and giving an extension that could be very costly didn't make sense at this point.

I've suggested that everyone just let it play out and wait until the facts are known before you go after Dana or Lyons.

What I don't get is why everyone needs an extension right this second. There's still 4 months until this year's class starts to show up on campus and another 6-ish until fall camp. We rarely ever get a good number of signees prior to the summer, so I'm just going to sit back and relax.

I miss the Blue Lot even if no one got along with me. It's my favorite season now and most of my fellow fans reside there, plus this board is worse than Topix sometimes. I'll be back post baseball or when I have the money to cash in on a store deal with membership.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

Ok. I meant trial law. It's not a huge leap in spelling there.

I know you love to think you're right, but unless he knows he's gone either way then yes he needs to give up at least a large chunk of the payoff in order to get his extension. WVU will take no other deal....period and Lyons would be dumb to do otherwise. Dana would be equally dumb to not concede some.

He needs to give up nothing. The extension doesn't provide him anything right now. Why give up something, to get nothing?

Lyons will have his job in 2017 no matter what Dana does or doesn't do. Dana lacks that same assurance. People make emotional decisions all the time. Lyons wouldn't be the first. He literally decides whether Dana comes back in 2017 and can make his exit after next season either pleasant or unpleasant. Again, how excited is his next job going to be if Lyons drags his name through the mud?

What assurance does an extension provide? None. It's just paper. He could get an extension and be fired the next day. Unless there's another buy-out, it's just ceremonial.

Right now, Dana has the assurance that if he's fired, he gets the remainder of his contract, about $3 million or more. As I said, if Lyons simply makes an emotional decision based on previous negotiations, he's completely unfit for his position. Threatening to drag an employees name through the mud, to gain leverage in a negotiation is unethical and Lyons would be putting himself on very thin ice. As an AD, dealing with coaches and agents is part of the job. You can't throw a fit and fire every coach who doesn't bow to your demands.

This can be dirty, but there are standards and ethics and you've suggested numerous sleazy tactics to screw Dana. My opinion of the man is irrelevant. An organization cannot deal with employees in the manner you've suggested now and in the past. IMO, doing the things you've previously suggested would put WVU in major liability.

I've said before. If WVU wants Dana gone. They can simply fire him and fulfill their contractual obligations and both parties move on.

For what it's worth, I'm not painting Lyons that way - you are.

If he can negotiate an extension and get us to regular 9 win seasons for the next couple years he will get at least 4mil a year for the next 3 years thereafter as opposed to digging his heels, getting canned. Count his 4 mil while settling for a job for 500-600k a year with no assurance he will ever get that shot again.

Once again, an extension would only be ceremonial. It provides no security. So why give up guaranteed money for nothing in return?

Digging in your heels is what happens during real negotiations. Stop living in a fairy tale. In one breath you suggest Lyons would fire Dana out of spite, and drag Dana's name through the mud, and in the next you suggest Dana should just "play ball". Well let me ask you this, if you were dealing with someone like that, would you play ball?

I certainly would not.

You obviously don't think like this. I do. I've made concessions in my contract 3 years ago that will benefit me when my new contract comes up in 2 months and will do so until I decide to retire. It sucked in the short term, but I've matured to the point where I realize that sometimes you can't sweat the short term stuff when you know you are good at what you do and have several years to get that back as long as you don't burn bridges along the way.

Honestly, what do these situations have in common? Nothing. What concessions did you make? Pay a little extra for health care? Take a wage freeze? Did you give up $3 million for nothing in return?

Dana isn't burning any bridges. He's forcing (hypothetically for this discussion) WVU to simply honor the contract they made with him. Nothing wrong with that.

Response embedded.

EDIT: The two parties attempted to make an agreement and couldn't. That's not unusual. I don't fault either parties. Both are protecting themselves. My issue is with your disingenuous argument, and pretending to be looking out for Dana's best interest. You've made it very clear you wish the buy out to be eliminated so WVU can terminate Dana without paying the hefty fee. I have no problem with that opinion, but don't masquerade it as any else.

 

[jpf578]

Produce or I'll find someone I think will is a completely fair approach for a major D-I team with a storied tradition of winning. It is what year 6 after all for the Holg era? Nothing wrong with expecting a big season by year 6. And yes, I know 2011 ended great, but at some point you have to follow up with consistently similar results.

We're neither major or storied.

 

[jpf578]

Quit? No.

Relinquish his advantage short term in order to preserve his long term earning potential? Yes. Stay on. Give up the severance advantage he has. Make the new contract for 3 years. No buyout for either side.

I'm telling you that if he goes 8-4 next year that he will get fired if he plays hardball. I will equally tell you he would stay if he has the same record and leaves that severance package on the table. When things are a 50/50 call, things like that can make a world of difference. If Dana digs in, he will be gone. IMO, if he takes that road, he will need to win at least 9 games with one of those being OK or Baylor in order to stay on (which won't happen).

After getting fired, he would get a job elsewhere that won't pay as well as WVU. Then what? Maybe after 3-4 years of making 1-2 mil a year less he might be able to get back to a WVU level job...or maybe he won't. Then what? 4 mil sound like a lot of money, until you realize that is chicken feed long term if he can't make it work at WVU.

But he'll be gone with a lot of money in his pocket. Any coach that gives up a buyout clause should have his head examined.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

A power 5 team isn't major? Major bowl wins, playing for the NC and being in the top 25 for number of wins isn't storied?

 

[jpf578]

WVU fans (should) expect a 9 win average. An occasional 10 win team (every 4-5 years) and an occasional 7 win team (every 7-8 years). With the money the B12 is giving us, we can be more than what we have been the past 5 years.

You can expect it but fact is, it will never happen. You cannot recruit good enough talent to sustain that in Morgantown.

 

[jpf578]

A power 5 team isn't major? Major bowl wins, playing for the NC and being in the top 25 for number of wins isn't storied?

Played for 2 NC's years ago and got spanked. A couple nice bowl wins does not make you a major player or storied program. We're average and that's it. You can't sugar coat it any other way.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

Played for one NC, just missed out on another, beat SEC Champ Georgia in Atlanta and spanked Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl. I could go on but I do not feel the need. This is a WVU centric forum and you are trolling. Why would anyone come on this board to badmouth or belittle the Mountaineers? I wonder how successful your team has been against them.

 

[VaultHunter]

Played for 2 NC's years ago and got spanked. A couple nice bowl wins does not make you a major player or storied program. We're average and that's it. You can't sugar coat it any other way.

Top 20 in all time wins with multiple BCS bowl wins and non BCS bowl wins, played for 2 National Championships and WVU is average? That's the best thing I have read in this whole thread filled with good things to read

 

[irishladdy]

Response embedded.

EDIT: The two parties attempted to make an agreement and couldn't. That's not unusual. I don't fault either parties. Both are protecting themselves. My issue is with your disingenuous argument, and pretending to be looking out for Dana's best interest. You've made it very clear you wish the buy out to be eliminated so WVU can terminate Dana without paying the hefty fee. I have no problem with that opinion, but don't masquerade it as any else.

Unless I have missed something, there is no buyout... The whole contract is guaranteed if fired. I don't think people want a buyout eliminated, they want a buyout clause added that doesn't hamstring the athletic department into never being able to afford to get out of the contract.

 

[wvpaper]

bags are packed, arrangements being made. bon voyage. let's all get behind the next guy (Rich?)

 

[steeleer]

bags are packed, arrangements being made. bon voyage. let's all get behind the next guy (Rich?)

You're on a hot streak. Is this just a troll comment or have you something concrete to share?

 

[dogeered_again]

The point is, a contract extension doesn't give him any more "stability" than he currently has, the 2016 season is going to determine his future in Morgantown, end of story.

As for perception, all I'll say is not everyone is as naive as you take them for and like always our 2017 recruiting class will end up ranked somewhere between 25-40.

I recently read that we have just one commit for the 2017 class... last in the Big XII!!

 

[Darth_VadEER]

So why did Lyons go public with his comments?

Was Lyons just undercutting Dana? That doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Rootmaster]

If DH were doing a good job then all this discussion about contract extensions would not exist. Lyons is his boss. Lyons sets the expectations. If DH doesn't like it then there are a lot of QB coaching positions he might take a look at.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

If DH were doing a good job then all this discussion about contract extensions would not exist. Lyons is his boss. Lyons sets the expectations. If DH doesn't like it then there are a lot of QB coaching positions he might take a look at.

Sure. But why go public? What interest is served?

 

[Rootmaster]

I would bet all my McDonald's french fries that if Lyons didn't issue a statement...

1. he would have been repeatedly asked by media with everyone suspecting that there was something sinister afoot
2. or, the fan forum experts would have had a field day delivering the conspiracy theory of the moment.

He, and WVU, did the professional thing by issuing a statement. They served WVU's interest...not our forums.

 

[ThePunish-EER]

So why did Lyons go public with his comments?

Was Lyons just undercutting Dana? That doesn't sit well with me.

it showed Lyons is not ready for this job. It was not smart or the mark of a good leader to issue an unnecessary statement that inadvertently harms the program. He certainly has the right to fire Dana or extend him. A true leader would've made the choice. Now we have a lame duck coach handcuffed all year and will struggle to recruit. It will set the program back a year. And the nonsense doesn't stop there with Lyons. He continues to hurt the program implementing a foolish philosophy of signing assistants to only 1 year contracts. Brian Mitchell left for this reason. No stability. Not smart. And what if the team has a great season? Now you have to worry about resigning all of your assistants at seasons end. Absolutely ignorant.

 

[jpf578]

Played for one NC, just missed out on another, beat SEC Champ Georgia in Atlanta and spanked Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl. I could go on but I do not feel the need. This is a WVU centric forum and you are trolling. Why would anyone come on this board to badmouth or belittle the Mountaineers? I wonder how successful your team has been against them.

Why would anyone profess we are something more than we are? I've been a season ticket holder for football and basketball for many years so I believe you are the naive troll here.

 

[jpf578]

Top 20 in all time wins with multiple BCS bowl wins and non BCS bowl wins, played for 2 National Championships and WVU is average? That's the best thing I have read in this whole thread filled with good things to read

You can fool yourself all you want. Does matter to me.

 

[GetYaNumbersUp]

I would bet all my McDonald's french fries that if Lyons

didn't issue a statement...

1. he would have been repeatedly asked by media with everyone suspecting that there was something sinister afoot
2. or, the fan forum experts would have had a field day delivering the conspiracy theory of the moment.

He, and WVU, did the professional thing by issuing a statement. They served WVU's interest...not our forums.

So Lyons issued a statement to appease a few fans on a message board? Seems legit.

If Lyons wants Dana gone so bad he should have fired him, and paid him his money instead of wasting a year with a coaching staff that knows they won't be here in 2017 and a roster of players that knows the same.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

I would bet all my McDonald's french fries that if Lyons didn't issue a statement...

1. he would have been repeatedly asked by media with everyone suspecting that there was something sinister afoot
2. or, the fan forum experts would have had a field day delivering the conspiracy theory of the moment.

He, and WVU, did the professional thing by issuing a statement. They served WVU's interest...not our forums.

How was WVU's interest served by making that statement?

He could have just said talks are always occurring. No harm there.

All Lyons has done is create a stir and publicly undercut our HC.

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

it showed Lyons is not ready for this job. It was not smart or the mark of a good leader to issue an unnecessary statement that inadvertently harms the program. He certainly has the right to fire Dana or extend him. A true leader would've made the choice. Now we have a lame duck coach handcuffed all year and will struggle to recruit. It will set the program back a year. And the nonsense doesn't stop there with Lyons. He continues to hurt the program implementing a foolish philosophy of signing assistants to only 1 year contracts. Brian Mitchell left for this reason. No stability. Not smart. And what if the team has a great season? Now you have to worry about resigning all of your assistants at seasons end. Absolutely ignorant.

Lyons should be praised he looked out for the interest of the university 1st. He made DH an offer its not his fault DH declined it. Lyons offered DH a fair market value of what a coach with similar results is getting. What did you expect a golden parachute for a 7-5 season and a crappy bowl game? There where allot of coaching vacancy's this season it was not a good year to bring in someone new. Whats the point of firing someone and taking the risk on someone that might not be an ideal candidate. DH will have the opportunity to prove his worth he will be in year 6 which is plenty of time to mold the program the way you envisioned. He has a favorable home schedule if he can't have a break out season in 2016 then he has no one to blame but himself. Lyons stance on assistants is consistent with allot of schools

 

[Darth_VadEER]

Lyons should be praised he looked out for the interest of the university 1st. He made DH an offer its not his fault DH declined it. Lyons offered DH a fair market value of what a coach with similar results is getting. What did you expect a golden parachute for a 7-5 season and a crappy bowl game? There where allot of coaching vacancy's this season it was not a good year to bring in someone new. Whats the point of firing someone and taking the risk on someone that might not be an ideal candidate. DH will have the opportunity to prove his worth he will be in year 6 which is plenty of time to mold the program the way you envisioned. He has a favorable home schedule if he can't have a break out season in 2016 then he has no one to blame but himself. Lyons stance on assistants is consistent with allot of schools

But why go public? No one will answer that question.

People say an extension matters for recruiting. I don't know if that's true or not, but the AD publicly undercutting the HC definitely creates problems.

 

[Rootmaster]

He SHOULD go public...unless he is a candidate running for President I guess.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

So Lyons issued a statement to appease a few fans on a message board? Seems legit.

If Lyons wants Dana gone so bad he should have fired him, and paid him his money instead of wasting a year with a coaching staff that knows they won't be here in 2017 and a roster of players that knows the same.

Get ready for it, because this will be the new normal.

The Team JR & Co., will be out in force. Lyons will be untouchable around here, no matter what.

It's not about Dana's record. He could win 11 games next year and they'll still call for his head, because remember - Luck hired him, and Stewart got fired for him. Team Mickey is like a pig in shit.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

He SHOULD go public...unless he is a candidate running for President I guess.

Why? All its done is create a stir. There's no reason Dana's extension even needs to be a story right now, but it is - because he made it one.

Back up your argument.

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

But why go public? No one will answer that question.

People say an extension matters for recruiting. I don't know if that's true or not, but the AD publicly undercutting the HC definitely creates problems.

I don't see why its undercutting. He was offered a deal he didn't take it. DH is just to blame for not accepting what was offered. Schools don't give out the keys to fort Knox based on his performance. If Lyons didn't make a statement rumors would have persisted like the endless expansions threads that have crept onto this board.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

I don't see why its undercutting. He was offered a deal he didn't take it. DH is just to blame for not accepting what was offered. Schools don't give out the keys to fort Knox based on his performance. If Lyons didn't make a statement rumors would have persisted like the endless expansions threads that have crept onto this board.

Fine, make a statement, just not the one he made.

Just say that they are working on it and discussion's are always happening. What he did caused this problem.

Team JR can't contain themselves.

 

[Rootmaster]

darth...maybe you should apply for the position of WVU Communications Director...or at least Sports Information Director. Really. Since you have a firm grasp on proper public relations procedure. BTW: how would you have worded the statement...precisely?