Capitalism IS Freedom...

[WVU82]

 

[mule_eer]

You took WV History in middle school like the rest of us, right? How did pure capitalism create a favorable environment for WVians in the early 20th century? Working in mines, forever indebted to your employer because you had to pay their rent, rent their tools, shop at their stores all because they controlled the tonnage rate and paid in corporate script instead of cash. It was a great capitalistic model, but it benefited a small minority of people. That's not to say that pure socialism or pure communism is good either. I'm all for capitalism with reasonable regulation. The devil's in the details, but you aren't providing that nuance. To be fair, not many focus on nuance. I have a neighbor who is on Social Security and Medicare tell me that socialism is horrible. While I agree that pure socialism is a bad model, I appreciate the irony of his stance.

 

[MountaineerWV]

You took WV History in middle school like the rest of us, right? How did pure capitalism create a favorable environment for WVians in the early 20th century? Working in mines, forever indebted to your employer because you had to pay their rent, rent their tools, shop at their stores all because they controlled the tonnage rate and paid in corporate script instead of cash. It was a great capitalistic model, but it benefited a small minority of people. That's not to say that pure socialism or pure communism is good either. I'm all for capitalism with reasonable regulation. The devil's in the details, but you aren't providing that nuance. To be fair, not many focus on nuance. I have a neighbor who is on Social Security and Medicare tell me that socialism is horrible. While I agree that pure socialism is a bad model, I appreciate the irony of his stance.

 

[WVU82]

You took WV History in middle school like the rest of us, right?
While I agree that pure socialism is a bad model, I appreciate the irony of his stance.

There are 50 states and I'm sure all 50 can point to a time when things "were bad"...

West Virginia was taken advantage of because of corrupt officials, just like todays democrats/republicans...

One cent a ton towards education...

One cent a ton for roads...

One cent a ton for public welfare...

It would have been that easy....



Getting back to my thread...

Capitalism WITH our CONSTITUTION has led to the GREATEST COUNTRY ON THE PLANET.

"Capitalism is freedom because without it, ballots are just suggestions. "

"Capitalism is freedom because it values the future over the past, and the future is the only place where we get to make choices. "

 

[BigLickMountee]

You took WV History in middle school like the rest of us, right? How did pure capitalism create a favorable environment for WVians in the early 20th century? Working in mines, forever indebted to your employer because you had to pay their rent, rent their tools, shop at their stores all because they controlled the tonnage rate and paid in corporate script instead of cash. It was a great capitalistic model, but it benefited a small minority of people. That's not to say that pure socialism or pure communism is good either. I'm all for capitalism with reasonable regulation. The devil's in the details, but you aren't providing that nuance. To be fair, not many focus on nuance. I have a neighbor who is on Social Security and Medicare tell me that socialism is horrible. While I agree that pure socialism is a bad model, I appreciate the irony of his stance.

I don't agree with your premise here and it's probably because of me.

capitalism did not cause forever debt to your employer because of the bills one had and it benefited a small minority of "rich people". The debt was a power imbalance between those educated and those not. Early coal miners probably had no education and were manipulated. Hopefully, collective bargaining helped them. The culture for a larger number of people becoming rich might have been aided by capitalism but education empowered more people over time to engage capitalism.

The ability to generate wealth is more so related to education. Capitalism allows for the freedom of those with education to engage the culture of capitalism for maximum benefit. Socialism does not allow for freedom to express itself like capitalism does.

 

[mule_eer]

I don't agree with your premise here and it's probably because of me.

capitalism did not cause forever debt to your employer because of the bills one had and it benefited a small minority of "rich people". The debt was a power imbalance between those educated and those not. Early coal miners probably had no education and were manipulated. Hopefully, collective bargaining helped them. The culture for a larger number of people becoming rich might have been aided by capitalism but education empowered more people over time to engage capitalism.

The ability to generate wealth is more so related to education. Capitalism allows for the freedom of those with education to engage the culture of capitalism for maximum benefit. Socialism does not allow for freedom to express itself like capitalism does.

I can see your education difference argument, and I think it's reasonable. I don't think 82's claims about state level corruption are out of place either. And my argument isn't that capitalism is bad. I think unregulated capitalism creates imbalances that favor the very rich. That's why we can break up monopolies, fine companies for colluding to price fix, and have labor laws. Those are all positive add on to capitalism. I'm all for that.

Another counter though is that the government, for the most part, provides for education of the masses. During the time before child labor laws, a lot of children had to go to work to help provide for the family, so the ability to receive an education was also limited by class, no pun intended.