Thank you for finally resolving a couple of long-debated points about scholarship numbers and QB recruiting, Vernon. Somebody should use your sentence above as a sig on all their posts.
Bill Stewart only having around 60 scholarship players
- Thread starter dolemitebmf
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Regardless of people's opinions Stewart's classes were not what they needed to be numbers wise for a program to stay a consistent top 10 program. I have zero doubt Stewart wanted to win as bad as anyone associated with WVU but his recruiting plan set WVU back and that is a fact. When your getting whipped in the 4th quarter by a team like UConn or ECU or Calofrigginrado depth is obviously an issue. Absolutely no excuse for WVU not to win 10 or more games every season Stewart was coach especially in the Big East WVU was competing in. Stewart was in over his head and had no business being the head coach of a FBS program. Did he love West Virginia with every once of his heart? Yes! Was he qualified to be a head coach at the FBS level? No! His resume told everyone that much.
It is the end result of the recruiting aspect of the job that matters. In general a head coach wants to hit his full allotment each year and hope that he gets 3 or 4 stand-out stars out of each. Bill was under in numbers but still got 1 or 2 stars; Dana has slightly better numbers and yet again only 1-2 stars out of each year. The results seem even regardless of the numbers coming in the door and this indicates that neither are or were good recruiters. The difference may seem small, between 1 - 2 and 3 -4 standouts but over the course of 5 years that is ten stand outs missing from the rotation.
Even those guys that are not stars but are solid players make a difference and watching Dana's teams on the field, they look exhausted by the middle of the 3rd quarter and dead in the 4th.
Bill's biggest problem was his locked mindset. He suffered from "Nehlenism" the game he was coaching was played in the 80s. Like Don, Bill was past his use by date. Dana, sadly, is in the wrong league in my opinion in more ways than one.
This article clearly states Stewart's plan was to sign 16-18 players to letters of intent. I never question Stewart's dedication to West Virginia and to WVU but that does not mean he had the ability to be the head football coach of a program like WVU. If there is any person I wanted to see succeed it was Coach Stewart. I thank him continually for the good things he did at West Virginia unfortunately they did not outweigh the bad. I honestly think if he and the AD at the time would have had the four sight to hire a highly successful offensive coordinator, let that person have full control and Stewart would have recruited the way he needed too WVU would have continued its success. . http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/402287-wvu-recruiting-bill-stewarts-version
What Stewart meant, but because of his inarticulate style couldn't get across, was simply that the ideal situation for a team would be to have the roster distributed evenly distributed over 5 recruiting classes. (85/5= 17.5).
So, having 17-18 finish every year and replaced with 17-18 recruits would likely allow for the most consistent long-term success.
The idea is sound. His attempt to explain it was like his attempts to explain a lot of things, and he never got to the point where we achieved the goal.
So, having 17-18 finish every year and replaced with 17-18 recruits would likely allow for the most consistent long-term success.
The idea is sound. His attempt to explain it was like his attempts to explain a lot of things, and he never got to the point where we achieved the goal.
players exhausted goes back to a point I've touched on in the past. Mike Joseph is our S/C coach. We've not been conditioned since barwis
I sure do wonder how a person knows whether Dana is a good coach or a bad coach. I also wonder what the criteria for being a good 'fit' at WV is. Now tell me how you conclude that Holgs niche in coaching life is not at P5 level. Finally, what makes you think that DH is either honest or dishonest or lazy? I am clueless since I don't know the man personally and can base his coaching only on the win/loss column. I am so stupit!
you don't seem to have a problem with the fact that out of 29 players signed by Dana in a class only 8 are left..and one was crazy enough to commit an armed robbery wearing a mask and his #95 team issued sweat pants..
Attrition happens, that's what Stew didn't allow for. This year's scholarship distribution chart shows that we had 84 players to start the season. I know that 4 or 5 have left but they can be replaced by early enrollees who count back. We should be back to close to 85 to start next year and that's important. It would be better to have less attrition but it doesn't kill you like it does when you have fewer than 80 players to start fall camp. Chart:
https://westvirginia.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=891&CID=1387893
https://westvirginia.rivals.com/content.asp?SID=891&CID=1387893
It is rather easy to explain, you see, you pointed out in your own post that you are clueless. That is why you cannot grasp complex - and to be honest it isn't that complex - topic at hand.
in the words of a great coach..every year there's around 30 players who win or lose ball games for you..the other 70 are just a bunch of nice guys..
I said it once and I'll say it again: Neither of them are good head coaches. Dana is best served as an OC somewhere where he can take the reigns of an offense.
Bill Stewart (RIP) was best served as an administrative or AD office type of position.
Not a knock on either one, both have good things they do. Unfortunately, being a head coach is not one of them.
Bill Stewart (RIP) was best served as an administrative or AD office type of position.
Not a knock on either one, both have good things they do. Unfortunately, being a head coach is not one of them.
I admit to being stupit. Now, tell me how you know a coach is good or bad, etc. What differentiates good and bad? Ole Warez ain't afraid to learn.
Stewart got slapped by the NCAA for unauthorized summer workouts that started under Rodriguez and came to the surface after the transition. Bill had continued right along with the workouts, pleading ignorance when it was self-reported by the Athletic Dept.. It wasn't anything big, but the handful of scholarships lost along with attrition added up over his three years. (I can't remember if the probation lasted into Dana's first year?)
With the kids that left due to the coaching change, numbers were in the mid 60's that spring. What hurt was having to throw together a makeshift recruiting class that February just to get numbers up post-Stewart for the fall. It dug a deeper hole that was magnified by the jump to the Big 12 in 2012.
It's all water under the bridge now.
With the kids that left due to the coaching change, numbers were in the mid 60's that spring. What hurt was having to throw together a makeshift recruiting class that February just to get numbers up post-Stewart for the fall. It dug a deeper hole that was magnified by the jump to the Big 12 in 2012.
It's all water under the bridge now.
Someone finally taking up for Stew and his numbers. This is what I had been saying all along but we had some many cool aid drinkers. The one thing Vernon mentions that no one is willing to discuss or wants to discuss is just how bad Rich left the numbers when he left.
Absolutely on the money, Vernon! It about time someone running a board tells it like it for these folks who look the other way and give DH a pass.
In all fairness, didn't Tivita Finau account for about 10 of those unsigned commitments during that timeframe?
Any chance we get him signed this year?
Tevita Finua is now a DE for the Houston Texans, so I'm sure he has used up his eligibility. :wink:
and Terence Kerns got a six yr prison sentence last year..hope he turns it around.
If Dana doesn't make it in the Big 12 it's because of Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor, Texas Tech, TCU, Kansas, Kansas State and Iowa State. Even if Holgs coaching, recruits and everything else matched up with these teams on a par basis..................wins are still hard to come by. But, this much I can tell you. Dana ain't no coaching genius. There ain't a coach anywhere that is! Don't go telling me such a coach exists!
I knew Bill Stewart, even before Nehlen hired him. I liked him and thought he was a good assistant, but if you had ever told me prior to January 2008, he would become WVU head coach, I'd have asked what you were smoking.
Bill knew football and knew it well. His problem was he was not cut out to be a head coach. In PR terms, he was excellent when he was an assistant speaking to alumni/fan groups telling war stories and "cheerleading" for the program. He was funny (deliberately) and engaging. Representing the program as the head coach is a different thing and he was bad at it. Answering specific questions coherently as to either what had happened or what his vision for the program was and how he intended to achieve it was obviously not his strong suit. Especially when he became defensive in the face of justified questions he was anything but confidence inspiring.
In terms of the management aspects of the job, he was at best naïve. I think he thought he could just hire good people ( a mixed record there, but that true for all coaches) and delegate the "detail stuff." Frankly, I think he was over his head as a boss overseeing well over 100 people counting staff and players.
In pure football terms, he was very good at some things, but those are the things that make someone a good assistant coach. He knew football from both sides of the ball and was good at teaching techniques and mentoring players about how to achieve their goals. I don't think anyone ever questioned his ability to earn the respect and affection of young men and motivate them.
He was a good recruiter. He could recognize talent. He was persistent and he could relate to players and parents and convince them WVU was the right choice. I think he did take too many chances on people with academic or other red flags. Part of that was the hope for the "big score" but another part was that he truly did want to give kids in need a chance and just wasn't capable of making the kind of cool, calculated decisions necessary when looking at the bigger picture.
He wasn't an Xs and Os guy per se, or innovative in any way, but he was far from incapable at assessing strengths and weaknesses and devising appropriate game plans. Where I think he was weak, was implementation under the gun. The pressure of having to make critical decisions on the fly was not something he handled well.
As I said, I liked Bill. l thought the way he was pushed out and then terminated was inexcusably poorly handled, but I also don't think he should have been hired. It would have been better for all concerned if he was given a substantial raise and the coach hired in 2008 was told Bill being an assistant was part of the deal for a couple of years at least, and that a job with WVU would be available as long as he wanted.
If the Fiesta Bowl triumph (People who say he didn't do anything or that Calvin freaking Magee was more responsible for the win literally have no clue) was the lasting memory of Bill a lot of grief and acrimony would have been avoided.
It's also worth noting that had we hired someone else in 2008, we might now have a much stronger program, more stability and not now have a head coach who is, at best, at least as far over his head as was Bill.
Bill knew football and knew it well. His problem was he was not cut out to be a head coach. In PR terms, he was excellent when he was an assistant speaking to alumni/fan groups telling war stories and "cheerleading" for the program. He was funny (deliberately) and engaging. Representing the program as the head coach is a different thing and he was bad at it. Answering specific questions coherently as to either what had happened or what his vision for the program was and how he intended to achieve it was obviously not his strong suit. Especially when he became defensive in the face of justified questions he was anything but confidence inspiring.
In terms of the management aspects of the job, he was at best naïve. I think he thought he could just hire good people ( a mixed record there, but that true for all coaches) and delegate the "detail stuff." Frankly, I think he was over his head as a boss overseeing well over 100 people counting staff and players.
In pure football terms, he was very good at some things, but those are the things that make someone a good assistant coach. He knew football from both sides of the ball and was good at teaching techniques and mentoring players about how to achieve their goals. I don't think anyone ever questioned his ability to earn the respect and affection of young men and motivate them.
He was a good recruiter. He could recognize talent. He was persistent and he could relate to players and parents and convince them WVU was the right choice. I think he did take too many chances on people with academic or other red flags. Part of that was the hope for the "big score" but another part was that he truly did want to give kids in need a chance and just wasn't capable of making the kind of cool, calculated decisions necessary when looking at the bigger picture.
He wasn't an Xs and Os guy per se, or innovative in any way, but he was far from incapable at assessing strengths and weaknesses and devising appropriate game plans. Where I think he was weak, was implementation under the gun. The pressure of having to make critical decisions on the fly was not something he handled well.
As I said, I liked Bill. l thought the way he was pushed out and then terminated was inexcusably poorly handled, but I also don't think he should have been hired. It would have been better for all concerned if he was given a substantial raise and the coach hired in 2008 was told Bill being an assistant was part of the deal for a couple of years at least, and that a job with WVU would be available as long as he wanted.
If the Fiesta Bowl triumph (People who say he didn't do anything or that Calvin freaking Magee was more responsible for the win literally have no clue) was the lasting memory of Bill a lot of grief and acrimony would have been avoided.
It's also worth noting that had we hired someone else in 2008, we might now have a much stronger program, more stability and not now have a head coach who is, at best, at least as far over his head as was Bill.
Speaking just for me................and some folks from Tennessee.......................let's stay in the present and try to move on with 2016. I could ramble on but.................you get my drift. What I type is merely what I think............not what I know. We on the same page? Now, how about that Cactus Bowl? Warez
I get your drift and am very bored by it. Apparently you think it is clever to adopt a persona of stupidity that rivals the world class stupidity of those here who come by it naturally. That you think that is clever suggests to me, you might be closer to them in real life than you like to think.
LMD,
You have summarized my thoughts on Bill as well. I did not know him well at all, met him in person only a few times and his personal likability was undeniable. I, like you, think that Bill should never have been hired to the HC spot, and while I also agree his exit was handled poorly, I do not think it was done so from malice. Rather than Oliver trying to give Bill a soft landing, he should have been practical about it; offered a package, the gold watch, slap on the back and wish to enjoy your retiring years. I also agree that had we made a different hire then we would be in a different world today. There were two coaches back then that had the inside track and it was down to those two - one of them even believed he had the job in the bag. Either would have been a better choice than was Bill or Dana is.
its amazing how people forget. Oliver did give Bill a safe landing. Bill was offered an AD position making $100k and all he had to do was work one last year as HC with Dana as OC and Dana would take over the following year. Stewart screwed it up.
Now........................there you go again.........................thinking things. I admit to being a 'low information' fan. Perhaps that is the problem. Agreed?
Bill was the better recruiter, the better man, the better leader of young men. Dana is young and he knows the the air raid. They both made questionable hires and both are loyal to those hires. Bill was stubborn, Dana is impetuous.
That sums up the objective comparison.
We know we are getting a new head football coach after next year. Can we all agree that it does no good to compare before the new guy is hired???
That sums up the objective comparison.
We know we are getting a new head football coach after next year. Can we all agree that it does no good to compare before the new guy is hired???
excuse me..Stewart was not booted out of a casino at 3 am..which started the snowball rolling..
I live over the hill from the Casino. I worked for the man who developed the place and I still have contacts there.The fact is it closes at 3 A.M. Dana was asked to leave like all patrons are at closing. He wasn't "thrown out" except in the mind of Chuck Landon, reacting to rumor passed on to him by a worker at the Casino of a supposed incident the worker in question didn't witness.
The only fact in the matter is Landon has had personal vendetta towards Holgorsen since his days at Houston. That people bought the tale hook, line and sinker still amazes me. There's no law prohibiting a grown man from being out at night having a drink or flirting with a waitress. If so, Huggins would have been sentenced to hard labor at the age of 18.
Quit being such a bunch of believe anything prudes. Prohibition isn't coming back, single men flirting with pretty waitresses is common, and gambling is legal.
What's next, "My neighbor's cousin saw Dana kick a cat?" Sheesh!
The only fact in the matter is Landon has had personal vendetta towards Holgorsen since his days at Houston. That people bought the tale hook, line and sinker still amazes me. There's no law prohibiting a grown man from being out at night having a drink or flirting with a waitress. If so, Huggins would have been sentenced to hard labor at the age of 18.
Quit being such a bunch of believe anything prudes. Prohibition isn't coming back, single men flirting with pretty waitresses is common, and gambling is legal.
What's next, "My neighbor's cousin saw Dana kick a cat?" Sheesh!
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrV...=6589966/RK=0/RS=WwXj1EnFDv8X0XelGlCxKJQe8Pc-
that casino did not close at 3..alcohol sales stop at 3..the Nitro PD were called for him and that was never in dispute..that was no rumor..Oliver Luck even made a statement about it, and Holgorsen made a public apology.
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"I learned a valuable lesson from this incident," Holgorsen said in the school's statement. "As a football coach, I am always in the public eye and I have to hold myself to a higher standard, which is what I ask our players to do. I'm sorry that this incident has put the University and the football program in a difficult position. I will not put myself in that situation again.'
Let BS RIP, I think we can all agree that there were mistakes made but I have no doubt that he loved this state and WVU. A much more relevant topic might be why DH is not cutting the mustard. Maybe by ranking the factors. Poor in game decisions like substitution and play calling in OT against OSU for example. Lack of a quality QB recruit and QB developement. Quality of overall recruiting. Stronger competition (I don't buy into this one much). Poor assistant coaching. (special teams? Kansas St) Its way past time to blame anything happening now on BS.
With all that said even with the poor QB play I don't think this team was very far from being a team we would have been happy with.
I am surprised that you let WiiWii get under your skin Vernon.
With all that said even with the poor QB play I don't think this team was very far from being a team we would have been happy with.
I am surprised that you let WiiWii get under your skin Vernon.
Colorado and ECU were games 2 and 3 of Stews era at WVU. Blaming his recruiting for those games is just baseless.
Let's look at the record:
Here are the lists of recruits credited to Bill Stewart:
2008* 2009 2010 2011
D.J. Thomas CB
Jerrard Hunter WR Ivan McCartney WR Marquis Lucas OL
Mark Rodgers RB
Will Clarke DL Travis Bell DB
Andrew Buie RB
Zach Hulce RB Taige Redman LB Qudral Forte DB Terrell Chestnut DB
Benji Kemoeatu OL
Pat Miller DB Avery Williams WR
Russell Haughton-James OL
Robert Sands DB Jonathan Scott DB
Dante Chambers WR Dustin Garrison RB
Ja'tavious Miller LB Terrance Moore WR
Bruce Irvin DL Brandon Jackson OL
Josh Jenkins OL
Brodrick Jenkins DB Jewone Snow LB Isaiah Bruce LB
Jerome Swinton DB
Tavon Austin WR Ishmael Banks DB
Paul Millard QB
Coley White QB Tevita Finau DL Doug Rigg LB Shaq Rowell DL
J.D. Woods WR Stedman Bailey WR Troy Gloster LB Josh Francis LB
Ryan Clarke RB
Geno Smith QB
Quantavius Leslie WR K.J. Myers WR
Tyler Urban TE Darwin Cook DB
Trevor Demko DL Shaq Petteway DB
Tevita Finau DL
Curtis Feigt DL Wes Tonkery DB Ben Bradley DL
Jorge Wright DL Nick Kindler OL Barry Brunetti QB Justin Johnson OL
D.J. Shaw DL
Terence Garvin DB Jeremy Johnson QB
Jared Barber LB
Bernard Smith LB Ryan Spiker OL Mike Dorsey LB
Nick Kwiatkoski LB
Courtney Stuart DB Pat Eger OL Trey Johnson RB
Dante Campbell WR
Brantwon Bowser DB Daquan Hargrett RB Marquis Wallace OL Brian Athey QB
Tyler Bitancurt K Shawne Alston RB Benji Kemoeatu OL
Kyle Rose DL
Larry Ford DL Jordan Weingart OL Quinton Spain OL Vernard Roberts WR
Joe Madsen OL Cole Bowers OL Deon Long WR
Vance Roberts DB
John Bassler OL Dominik Davenport DL Cody Clay TE
Chris Palmer DL Deon Long WR
Donovan Miles LB
Branko Busick LB
J.J. Dorsey QB Chris Snook LB
Jeff Braun OL Logan Heastie WR
Terence Kerns RB
*The 2008 recruiting class credit goes to both Stewart and Rich Rodriguez's staff, but ultimately was signed by Stewart
Of the players listed above, these never qualified, left school or transferred before seeing any meaningful playing time, or qualified and never made an impact on the field (to keep subjectivity to a minimum, for this purpose, we'll define impact as playing in more than half of a single season's games):
2008 - Thomas, Hulce, Kemoeatu, Miller, Swinton, White, Finau, Shaw, Smith, Palmer, Dorsey, Kerns
2009 - Hunter, Scott, Moore, Finau, Spiker, Weingart, Davenport, Long, Busick, Snook, Heastie
2010 - Forte, Chambers, Leslie, Brunetti, J. Johnson, T. Johnson, Wallace, Kemoeatu, Long
2011 - Lucas*, Haughton-James*, Jackson, Bradley, Johnson, Athey, Ve. Roberts, Va. Roberts
* - Offensive Lineman who didn't play much this past season but were on the two-deep
Attrition happens everywhere, let's not kid ourselves about that. But look at these percentages of players not making a difference:
2008 - 12 of 27, 44%
2009 - 11 of 26, 42%
2010 - 9 of 21, 43%
2011 - 6 of 22, 27% (if you remove the 2 OL guys listed on the two deep)
Removing those two lineman from 2011, 38 out of 96 didn't pan out for a rate of 40%. If you're over-signing large classes every year, this basically compensates for itself. But when you only take 21 and 22 for two consecutive years, you've lost more than one whole recruiting class in a three year cycle from 2009 to 2011.
From what I've been able to find out, losing roughly a third of a class is normal, but that's over a four year period.
THIS WAS NOT WRITTEN BY ME. I COPIED AND PASTED IT.
Here are the lists of recruits credited to Bill Stewart:
2008* 2009 2010 2011
D.J. Thomas CB
Jerrard Hunter WR Ivan McCartney WR Marquis Lucas OL
Mark Rodgers RB
Will Clarke DL Travis Bell DB
Andrew Buie RB
Zach Hulce RB Taige Redman LB Qudral Forte DB Terrell Chestnut DB
Benji Kemoeatu OL
Pat Miller DB Avery Williams WR
Russell Haughton-James OL
Robert Sands DB Jonathan Scott DB
Dante Chambers WR Dustin Garrison RB
Ja'tavious Miller LB Terrance Moore WR
Bruce Irvin DL Brandon Jackson OL
Josh Jenkins OL
Brodrick Jenkins DB Jewone Snow LB Isaiah Bruce LB
Jerome Swinton DB
Tavon Austin WR Ishmael Banks DB
Paul Millard QB
Coley White QB Tevita Finau DL Doug Rigg LB Shaq Rowell DL
J.D. Woods WR Stedman Bailey WR Troy Gloster LB Josh Francis LB
Ryan Clarke RB
Geno Smith QB
Quantavius Leslie WR K.J. Myers WR
Tyler Urban TE Darwin Cook DB
Trevor Demko DL Shaq Petteway DB
Tevita Finau DL
Curtis Feigt DL Wes Tonkery DB Ben Bradley DL
Jorge Wright DL Nick Kindler OL Barry Brunetti QB Justin Johnson OL
D.J. Shaw DL
Terence Garvin DB Jeremy Johnson QB
Jared Barber LB
Bernard Smith LB Ryan Spiker OL Mike Dorsey LB
Nick Kwiatkoski LB
Courtney Stuart DB Pat Eger OL Trey Johnson RB
Dante Campbell WR
Brantwon Bowser DB Daquan Hargrett RB Marquis Wallace OL Brian Athey QB
Tyler Bitancurt K Shawne Alston RB Benji Kemoeatu OL
Kyle Rose DL
Larry Ford DL Jordan Weingart OL Quinton Spain OL Vernard Roberts WR
Joe Madsen OL Cole Bowers OL Deon Long WR
Vance Roberts DB
John Bassler OL Dominik Davenport DL Cody Clay TE
Chris Palmer DL Deon Long WR
Donovan Miles LB
Branko Busick LB
J.J. Dorsey QB Chris Snook LB
Jeff Braun OL Logan Heastie WR
Terence Kerns RB
*The 2008 recruiting class credit goes to both Stewart and Rich Rodriguez's staff, but ultimately was signed by Stewart
Of the players listed above, these never qualified, left school or transferred before seeing any meaningful playing time, or qualified and never made an impact on the field (to keep subjectivity to a minimum, for this purpose, we'll define impact as playing in more than half of a single season's games):
2008 - Thomas, Hulce, Kemoeatu, Miller, Swinton, White, Finau, Shaw, Smith, Palmer, Dorsey, Kerns
2009 - Hunter, Scott, Moore, Finau, Spiker, Weingart, Davenport, Long, Busick, Snook, Heastie
2010 - Forte, Chambers, Leslie, Brunetti, J. Johnson, T. Johnson, Wallace, Kemoeatu, Long
2011 - Lucas*, Haughton-James*, Jackson, Bradley, Johnson, Athey, Ve. Roberts, Va. Roberts
* - Offensive Lineman who didn't play much this past season but were on the two-deep
Attrition happens everywhere, let's not kid ourselves about that. But look at these percentages of players not making a difference:
2008 - 12 of 27, 44%
2009 - 11 of 26, 42%
2010 - 9 of 21, 43%
2011 - 6 of 22, 27% (if you remove the 2 OL guys listed on the two deep)
Removing those two lineman from 2011, 38 out of 96 didn't pan out for a rate of 40%. If you're over-signing large classes every year, this basically compensates for itself. But when you only take 21 and 22 for two consecutive years, you've lost more than one whole recruiting class in a three year cycle from 2009 to 2011.
From what I've been able to find out, losing roughly a third of a class is normal, but that's over a four year period.
THIS WAS NOT WRITTEN BY ME. I COPIED AND PASTED IT.
It looks like the problem was too many didn't pan out (40%). Losing one-third is normal over a four-year period. Stewart's recruits did it in 3 years.
Form whatever opinions you want from this.
Form whatever opinions you want from this.
Time to move on and quit living in the past. Frankly, there ain't no future in continuing with what happened in previous years. Yogi Berra said it best. Deja vu all over again. Nobody goes there anymore because it's too crowded.
How many of Stew's recruits are left? How many years does Dana get to hide behind that? It's this simple, Stew screwed the pooch on the number of his recruits that actually made it to WVU. No one denies that. Not even the most steadfast Stew supporters. Dana compounded the problem by thinking he was going come in here and recruit Texas and beat out the Texas schools doing it. Almost none of his offensive recruits over the first two years panned out. They showed up, got a free ride on an education, then transferred to lower tier schools and still didn't make any splash. Most of his skill position recruits had no other P5 offers. None of them turned out to be even above average at their position. That's what lead to the influx of JUCO players at every skill position on the offensive side of the ball. Add to that the hiring and subsequent demotion of DeForrest, questionable game management and play calling, lack of continuity in the coaching staff, and flat out lack of effort in a few seasons, and you get where we are now. And DeForrest may have been clueless as a d-coordinator but he recruited almost every star on our current defense.
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