But...but..the glass is half full. Well maybe 1/4 full. Wait until next year! We're just too good for the Big 12...should be in SEC!!!
6 thoughts about the game and season so far ...
- Thread starter spartansstink
- Start date
Seriously
West Virginia oline has been average since Holgerson let his OLine coach slip away to Cincy, Ron Crook i believe.
2008: No wins against a team that finished in the top 25. Losses: 9-5 ECU, 5-7 Colorado, #17 11-3 Cincinnati (at least in OT, but at home), 9-4 Pitt.
2009: Best win 19-16 at home vs #15 10-3 Pitt. Losses: 8-5 Auburn, 8-5 USF, #8 12-1 Cincinnati (24-21 on the road), 7-6 FSU.
2010: Best win 31-17 at home vs #23 9-4 Maryland. Losses: #8 11-2 LSU (20-14 on the road), 8-5 Syracuse (19-14 at home), 8-5 UConn (16-13 overtime on the road), #25 NC State (23-7 bowl game)
Hard to argue that this is bad, but equally hard to argue that it is great. Definitely unable to argue it's comparable to the success from 2005-2007. It's better than what we have now (up until this point), but only slightly better than what we had from 2011-2018. And again I am not discounting Stewart's abilities particularly when it comes to recruiting. I credited him and his staff for the 2011 season including the Orange Bowl win more than Holgorsen. That's because I believe the recruiting, the experience from the previous season, the off-season conditioning, and the Spring/Fall practices leading up to a season are more important than game week/day X's and O's to winning games. However both are important if your goal is to field an elite team. 2011 proved that Stewart and his staff was better at the former, but really bad at the latter. 2013 proved that Holgorsen and his staff were really bad at the former despite being better at the latter. Holgerson's staff also proved which is more important to the success of the team.
Sorry
boredom has limited my response.
I'd like to respond,
but I'm to bored to read any further.
I've easily demonstrated how 28-12 was not all that great and certainly a big step down from the 33-5 of the preceding 3 seasons in both numbers and quality of wins. So I guess you are right that it is hard to argue 28-12 if you're trying to portray it as more than middling results.
Well you'd take 28 - 12, now.
Taking about boring is West Virginia play vs Texas Tech, 1st half.
I would take 28 - 12 coming off Holgorsen's mismanagement. I wouldn't take it coming off arguably the best 3 year run in WVU football history. And while this TTU game was boring, don't forget that in 2010 WVU's offense was pretty much just as boring. Results were better because the average team WVU played in 2010 was WORSE than this year's TTU team and WVU had a better roster of playmakers in 2010. Guys like Devine that could hit a home run on their own athleticism despite a sputtering offense. It's easy to get nostalgic, but to portray Stewart's tenure as more than marginally better than Brown or Holgorsen isn't true.
Holgerson peaked in the Orange Bowl vs Clemson
with Bill Stewart's players.
Guess you forget that Bill Stewart beat Auburn which eventually got Tommy Tuberville fired.
Guess you convently forgot
Bill Stewart recruited Geno Smith.
with Bill Stewart's players.
Guess you forget that Bill Stewart beat Auburn which eventually got Tommy Tuberville fired.
Guess you convently forgot
Bill Stewart recruited Geno Smith.
How do those things translate to him bring a great coach?
He beat a 5-7 Auburn team that finished unranked. He should have beat the 8-5 Auburn team in 2009.
He recruited Geno, Stedman, and Tavon like I said. He then proceeded to lose the watered down Big East with them because he couldn't score more than 14 points against a 5 loss Syracuse and 5 loss UConn team.
He presided over his 3rd season as HC where he coached against 13 teams, only 1 of which was significantly better than this year's VT squad (LSU). In that season he lost 3 additional games to the LSU one and the offense in those games scored 7, 13, and 14 points. The same offensive roster of players then scored 70 against Clemson in the Orange Bowl the following year. How can such a piece of shit coach like Holgorsen get that out of the same roster that Stewart couldn't get 17 out of at home against a hapless Syracuse team? It's because Stewart did have major flaws, just not as bad as Holgorsen.
Pointing out the good things he did for the program only reinforces my point that he was not a great coach because of the context of the results on the field. The 2010 season was not all that much better than what we've seen so far this season despite those good things. 2008 and 2010 showed that even if Stewart had the players that could perform really well on the field offensively, they just didn't when he was at the helm and that buck stops with the head coach. So none of that contradicts my point that under Stewart, WVU was not playing at a level that was head and shoulders above our current or last coach. Sure it may have been better than Holgorsen or Brown, but it certainly wasn't good enough to rival WVU's play on the field under RR or even Nehlen. Frankly both Brown and Stewart had similar problems of decent defense and piss poor offense. Only thing Stewart did was bring in better players than Brown has, but as we can see he misused them.
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As a true FR it's hard to get snaps as a QB. Early in the season yet. Don't want to play him in more than 4 games so we can preserve his RS.
I'm sorry,
you are losing me in this discussion.
Maybe, I'm missing something here.
Neal Brown desperately needs a signature win (like vs a Auburn -just by chance i attended that night game) .
Holgerson never recruited a high school QB of quality, that i remember.
This, that or whatever but 28 - 12
is 28 - 12, no matter you wish otherwise.
You and your anti older white male bias is the reason we had that drunk loser Dana and are stuck now with Social justice warrior Kneel Clown.
sorry,
you are losing me in this discussion.
Maybe, I'm missing something here.
As relative comparison,
Neal Brown desperately needs a signature win (like vs a Auburn win -just by chance, i attended that night game) .
As a recruiting comparison,
Holgerson never recruited a high school QB of quality, that i remember.
This, that or whatever
but 28 - 12
is 28 - 12,
no matter you wish, otherwise.
Bill Stewart was the Head Coach at
West Virginia while WVU stomped Oklahoma.
Really? I thought he wasn't hired for the job till 3 a.m. AFTER the game.
He was interim head coach for the Oklahoma game doofus. Go take a nap.
RichRod, & Gibby was in Ann Arbor trying to recruit Pryor.
Don't remember any other coach in that Fiesta Bowl, in the Head Coach position on West Virginia sidelines.
Plse,
if you wish to fairly debate sports, please make more factual statements or I'll depart from boredom, sorry.
Bill Stewart RIP
I checked out a WVU sports forum and wandered into a 5th graders playground scuffle.
28 - 12
Resume,
- Stomped Oklahoma in Fiesta.
- Beat Auburn regular Season
- Recruited Geno.
- Hired Lonnie Galloway & Kirlav
- worked for both Don Nehlen & RichRod.
Bill Stewart
Even a 5th grader
can understand that resume'.
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Leave no Doubt
Appreciated,
as a side note - Bill Stewart was a friend to me, professionally
Bill Stewart will always be under appreciated. Not young enough or hip enough for the vid game set.
Bill Stewart strength was he could be masterful in getting folks to like him in few seconds.
That ah shucks personality
had a STRICT side, also.
Ollie was a bad judge of character.
I'll settle this. Bill Stewart gave a great speech, but that OK win was 100% the players. They were pissed and unleashed on them. Outside of that game Bill Stewart was a disappointment. Our offense took a nose dive. We got crushed by mediocre teams and lost that edge we had under Rod.
Dana didn't want t be a HC. He wanted to be an OC paid like a HC.
Brown seems soft and this team is taking that trait on as well.
Dana didn't want t be a HC. He wanted to be an OC paid like a HC.
Brown seems soft and this team is taking that trait on as well.
Believe what you wish, but you probably forgot that this msg board was
"Drooling" over Terry Bowden, who hadn't coached in 10 years, at the time.
Maybe, take you should take a backseat to this memory, just maybe.
Bill Stewart in combination with
Pat White held WVU together, as most people wanted RichRod back.
It would be foolish to forget this fact.
28 - 12
Stomped Oklahoma with a team RR assembled. You diminish Holgorsen's Orange Bowl as coming from "Stewart's" players but credit Stewart as the primary reason WVU beat Oklahoma. Stewart had less to do with beating Oklahoma with RR's players than Holgorsen did beating Clemson with Stewart's players. You are being intellectually dishonest by this inconsistency.
He beat a 5-7 Auburn team at home. That is less of an accomplishment than Brown's win against VT this year. Certainly nothing Stewart did during his 3 years has HC were as big as Holgorsen's win against #7 11-2 Baylor in 2014.
Lastly you just keep saying 28-12 when the only win there against a team better than middle of the pack is 10-3 Pitt. 9 of the losses were to teams equivalent to the average Big 12 team or worse.
Only a 5th grader would reductively keep saying numbers over and over again without analyzing those numbers. Between 2008 and 2010, Appalachian state was 32-9. Even a fifth grader can see it 32-9 is better than 28-12 so App State must've been better right? This is EXACTLY the argument you are making by just saying 28-12 and ignoring the quality of those games and the lack of production from the players that were obviously capable of more based upon their level of play under other coaches.
Gotta chuckle at morons who berate a coach with a winning record like BS at wvu while defending Kneel Clown and his losing record.
And there it is. You are arguing your feelings and ignoring the facts. You are also conflating job performance with personal value. Being competent or incompetent at a job does not have a damn thing to do with your quality as a person. I've worked with competent douche bags that I'd never want to socialize with and incompetent people that I'd love to call friends even if I didn't like working with them. Stewart was a better HC than Holgorsen, but he was closer in quality to Holgorsen in job performance than RR. Holgorsen just had different strengths and weaknesses when it comes to job performance. That does not mean that RR and Holgorsen are any less of pricks and Stewart any less of a good man.
My assessment in a nutshell:
1. Bill Stewart will forever deserve our love and respect for salvaging the 2007 season after RR bolted for Michigan by maintaining a steady hand on the keel and delivering a pre-game speech for the ages before the 2008 Fiesta Bowl. But his performance as our head coach thereafter in an extremely depleted Big East was A) not great, and B) not in the least comparable to what DH and NB have had to face in the Big 12. Not by a long shot. Admitting that fact does not diminish his accomplishments or contributions to WVU's football legacy, but ignoring that reality does nothing to burnish his posthumous coaching reputation. Achieving a 28-12 record whilst largely competing in a garbage Big East that couldn't hold (or sniff) the current Big 12's jockstrap is nothing to celebrate and certainly doesn't constitute credible evidence that Coach Stewart would have done any better against Big 12 competition on a regular basis than either DH or NB have done.
2. Holgorsen sucked wombat balls when it came to recruiting, improving players, making positive mid-game adjustments, and fostering productive relationships with our wealthiest donors. Yeah, he was a creative play-caller and offensive schemer more often than not. But I agree with a previous poster who opined that his skillset was better aligned with being an OC-wanting-to-be-paid-as-HC than as an actual HC with responsibility (and accountability) for the performance on both sides of the ball. Personally, I ain't sad that he's in Houston now.
3. HCNB and his staff are knocking it out of the park right now recruiting-wise, but their offensive play-calling, time management, and personnel selections (at least on the offensive side of the ball) are falling far short of Mountaineer Nation's expectations. If they don't improve on those aspects of their performance post haste, they most likely will lose the majority of our fanbase, thereby making their own gameday experiences far less enjoyable (and nastier) than what they have seen over the past 2+ years.
1. Bill Stewart will forever deserve our love and respect for salvaging the 2007 season after RR bolted for Michigan by maintaining a steady hand on the keel and delivering a pre-game speech for the ages before the 2008 Fiesta Bowl. But his performance as our head coach thereafter in an extremely depleted Big East was A) not great, and B) not in the least comparable to what DH and NB have had to face in the Big 12. Not by a long shot. Admitting that fact does not diminish his accomplishments or contributions to WVU's football legacy, but ignoring that reality does nothing to burnish his posthumous coaching reputation. Achieving a 28-12 record whilst largely competing in a garbage Big East that couldn't hold (or sniff) the current Big 12's jockstrap is nothing to celebrate and certainly doesn't constitute credible evidence that Coach Stewart would have done any better against Big 12 competition on a regular basis than either DH or NB have done.
2. Holgorsen sucked wombat balls when it came to recruiting, improving players, making positive mid-game adjustments, and fostering productive relationships with our wealthiest donors. Yeah, he was a creative play-caller and offensive schemer more often than not. But I agree with a previous poster who opined that his skillset was better aligned with being an OC-wanting-to-be-paid-as-HC than as an actual HC with responsibility (and accountability) for the performance on both sides of the ball. Personally, I ain't sad that he's in Houston now.
3. HCNB and his staff are knocking it out of the park right now recruiting-wise, but their offensive play-calling, time management, and personnel selections (at least on the offensive side of the ball) are falling far short of Mountaineer Nation's expectations. If they don't improve on those aspects of their performance post haste, they most likely will lose the majority of our fanbase, thereby making their own gameday experiences far less enjoyable (and nastier) than what they have seen over the past 2+ years.
Exactly. Stewart by all accounts seemed like the much better man than RR or Holgorsen. As the head coach of a division 1 football program, he was definitely not as good as RR, but better than Holgorsen. Closer to Holgorsen than RR though. His biggest weakness, like Brown, is loyalty to a fault and poor execution. Stewart was so loyal to Mullen that he allowed him to take the 2008 roster with the winningest QB in WVU history and manage to score only 3 points against ECU along with 14 points against 5-7 Colorado team. He then put together a roster that Mullen couldn't score more than 14 points with against two 5 loss Big East teams. Holgorsen took that same roster and averaged 34 points a game across 12 regular season games and then hung 70 on Clemson the very next season. Clearly Stewart and his staff proved they didn't know what they were doing on offense as there are 2 examples of other coaches being highly effective on that side of the ball with same roster than Stewaet and Co. struggled with. Doesn't diminish his Fiesta Bowl rallying of the troops or his recruiting of quality players.
28 - 12...
Maybe, you are talking about yourself - in your 1st few comments, just maybe.
I do NOT agree with your Bill Stewart Opinions
& discussing with you (in the future) will not change that.
Recruiting Geno Smith
and stomping Oklahoma in the Fiesta,
and beating Auburn regular Season,
and being 28 - 12, is enough for
Building a WVU resume.
- Holgorsen never recruited a high school QB, of consequence.
- Hopefully Neal Brown signs Nicco, because Neal Brown start is average, at best.
I do not Recognize your distaste or hate of Bill Stewart and don't particularly care.
Doubtful that I'll respond, further.
Bill Stewart was perfect for
West Virginia but West Virginia was to ignorant to acknowledge this fact.
28 - 12
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Answer one question. How is beating a 5-7 Auburn team at home an accomplishment?
You mean the 5-7 Auburn team that went 2-6 in SEC? The same Auburn team that beat them in 2009 and went 8-5 (3-5).
I don't like the way he was hired. Was not a big fan of his. Is that a crime all of a sudden?
He conflates his personal feelings about Stewart the man with his job as a head coach. He's biased and refuses to defend his assertions or explain his hypocrisy.
He gives Stewart the lion's share of credit for beating Oklahoma in 2007 over RR, but also gives Stewart the lion's share of credit for beating Clemson in 2011 over Holgorsen. Not a word to explain why these very similar cases warrant the complete opposite opinion.
Not a word about taking an offensive unit in 2007 that averaged 38.9 ppg and dropped 48 on Oklahoma to a unit that averaged 24 ppg and lost to a 5-7 Colorado team by only putting up 14 points.
Not a word about a 2010 offensive unit which averaged 26.7 ppg and only managed 13, 14, and 7 vs UConn, Syracuse, and NC State respectively. Nor a word about the "vastly inferior to Stewart" HC Holgorsen taking that same unit to a 34.9 ppg average and putting 70 on Clemson.
Ultimately, mofo came at me as though I was wrong when pointing out that Stewart's flaws which would prevent him from producing Nehlen or RR level results were apparent in his 3rd season. I've explained why that is true which mofo doesn't refute because he is "bored" and countered his reductive "stomped Oklahoma", "beat Auburn", and "28-12." All of which I've refuted extensively. Stewart, purely as a productive head football coach, was much closer in quality to Brown (so far) and Holgorsen than to RR or Nehlen. If you want to say I'm wrong, at least provide reasons as to why my arguments are wrong.
Missed out on a coach who more than likely would have left already in Fisher.
Stewart passed away so he never would have seen the Big 12. RIP.
