WVU Coaches A.D's a rambling post

[steeleer]

The difference between WVU and TCU right now is that TCU had their Pat White the past couple years and we have struggled to get that guy at QB since Dana came.

Geno Smith has 10x the arm Pat did but Geno folded and lacked maturity when things got tough here. IMO Clint in his SR year (and healthy) was our best QB under Dana.

If Dana could recruit/develop a great QB, his record would be better by at least 2 games a year. The problem is that the recruiting/development of a great QB was perhaps the main reason he was brought here to begin with.

Rich would have done more with Dana's players than what Dana has done...and I'm saying that as someone who doesn't necessarily want RR back. Dana has done more than Stew would have done. So far, Dana is an average coach and we have an average team under him. It's up to Lyons if that's good enough for him.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

The difference between WVU and TCU right now is that TCU had their Pat White the past couple years and we have struggled to get that guy at QB since Dana came.

Geno Smith has 10x the arm Pat did but Geno folded and lacked maturity when things got tough here. IMO Clint in his SR year (and healthy) was our best QB under Dana.

If Dana could recruit/develop a great QB, his record would be better by at least 2 games a year. The problem is that the recruiting/development of a great QB was perhaps the main reason he was brought here to begin with.

Rich would have done more with Dana's players than what Dana has done...and I'm saying that as someone who doesn't necessarily want RR back. Dana has done more than Stew would have done. So far, Dana is an average coach and we have an average team under him. It's up to Lyons if that's good enough for him.

Also remember we opened up against Alabama Trickett's senior year. You replace that game against a typical cupcake opener like usual, and we have back to back 8 win seasons under Dana, not that bad, imo - and that's with a hurt QB.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

The Big East went down hill when they couldn't keep their premiere coaches, RR, Petrino, Dantonio, and Kelly. Wanny at Pitt wasnt the worst out there. Schiano was doing good things, Holtz was a promising hire at USF. Even Edsell had UCONN functioning at a competent level.

By the time we left the conference all those guys were gone or fired.

Those guys were good for the conference. When good coaches don't want to stick around, everything else goes with it.

The B1G is looking strong now, and it's because they have three high level, elite coaches with Meyers, Harbaugh and Dantonio.

I agree. It is all about the coaches and less about the schools. But, I took the comment that the Big East was watered down as meaning the schools were different and they weren't. Coaches indeed make the difference and that is what I have been trying to point out in my many posts in this thread. It is not the conference we are in or the teams on our schedule that makes WVU successful or not, it ALL lands at the feet of the head coach. Do those other factors play a role? Yes, they do but all of them together do not outweigh the effect of a great or poor coach can have on a teams success. Behind every great team is a great coach and the same is true for bad ones.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

The difference between WVU and TCU right now is that TCU had their Pat White the past couple years and we have struggled to get that guy at QB since Dana came.

Geno Smith has 10x the arm Pat did but Geno folded and lacked maturity when things got tough here. IMO Clint in his SR year (and healthy) was our best QB under Dana.

If Dana could recruit/develop a great QB, his record would be better by at least 2 games a year. The problem is that the recruiting/development of a great QB was perhaps the main reason he was brought here to begin with.

Rich would have done more with Dana's players than what Dana has done...and I'm saying that as someone who doesn't necessarily want RR back. Dana has done more than Stew would have done. So far, Dana is an average coach and we have an average team under him. It's up to Lyons if that's good enough for him.

We can't know if Dana has done more than Bill could do. Neither were or are good coaches and both of them fail at this level of expectation for different reasons. Bill was a relic from the 70's and 80's and well out of date with the game. Dana performs best at this level as an OC but I think (no proof) that he would do well on the AAC/CUSA level where the demands are less.

If Lyons thought he was good enough, he would have extended his contract. Lyons is counting beans and wasting a year of WVUs future to save a few million. Not the call I would make but then I don't have to answer to all of the people Lyons does. Besides, as some have pointed out, this was not the year to go coach hunting as it seemed like every school was in the market. Next year it will be better, so maybe the year delay will be a good move in hindsight.

 

[xgunnx]

you are out of your element. When are you guys gonna realize the significant upgrade in competition? Nehlen averaged 7 wins in a much weaker conference. His 1-2 star guys would get killed in the big 12. Sure he made some good ones great. But at this level, one or 2 greats surrounded by guys barely average or below will not win in this league. It's about depth. Lots of depth to make it through an entire season in the big 12. It's a lot easier playing a weak regular season to get up for a bowl than to play a murderers row regular season to get up for another heavy weight in a bowl. Reason? Injuries. Players get wore down.

I understand your argument but in all honesty, a fair comparison cannot be made between Nehlen and Holgrosen. Too many variables and completely different eras. For example ill list Nehlens last year and schedule as well as Holgrosen most recent 2015 schedule.

2000 WVU 7-5:
Boston College W
Maryland W
Miami Fla L
Temple W
Idaho W
Virginia Tech L
Notre Dame L
Syracuse L
Rutgers W
East Carolina W
Pitt L
Music City Bowl Mississippi W

2015 WVU 8-5:
Georgia Southern W
Liberty W
Maryland W
OU L
oSu L
Baylor L
TCU L
TTU W
Texas W
KU W
ISU W
KSU L
Cactus Bowl Arizona State W

In 2000 one less game was played, it was Nehlens last year (lame duck). Your argument about competition level does not really work for a comparison. The 2000 schedule was just as or more difficult with a side by side comparison to the 2015 schedule.

 

[dogeered_again]

Almost everyone in this thread are assholes and have no business being Mountaineer fans. Not everyone, mind you.. just most. OK... go ahead and step up and identify yourselves!! Who will be first? I think we all know!

 

[dogeered_again]

I understand your argument but in all honesty, a fair comparison cannot be made between Nehlen and Holgrosen. Too many variables and completely different eras. For example ill list Nehlens last year and schedule as well as Holgrosen most recent 2015 schedule.

2000 WVU 7-5:
Boston College W
Maryland W
Miami Fla L
Temple W
Idaho W
Virginia Tech L
Notre Dame L
Syracuse L
Rutgers W
East Carolina W
Pitt L
Music City Bowl Mississippi W

2015 WVU 8-5:
Georgia Southern W
Liberty W
Maryland W
OU L
oSu L
Baylor L
TCU L
TTU W
Texas W
KU W
ISU W
KSU L
Cactus Bowl Arizona State W

In 2000 one less game was played, it was Nehlens last year (lame duck). Your argument about competition level does not really work for a comparison. The 2000 schedule was just as or more difficult with a side by side comparison to the 2015 schedule.

Comparisons based upon "what", exactly!? Your own subjective view on the matter.

 

[LowFatMilk]

Almost everyone in this thread are assholes and have no business being Mountaineer fans. Not everyone, mind you.. just most. OK... go ahead and step up and identify yourselves!! Who will be first? I think we all know!

My first post in this thread... ...but yea, I know many people (here) consider me to be an ahole...

....so I guess I'm identifying myself.

Now what ?

 

[xgunnx]

Comparisons based upon "what", exactly!? Your own subjective view on the matter.

Yes based on my opinion and yes its purely subjective. Does it matter really, i just like to see the Mountaineer football team be successful. I posted originally to spark debate and even some good hearted banter.

 

[steeleer]

Almost everyone in this thread are assholes and have no business being Mountaineer fans. Not everyone, mind you.. just most. OK... go ahead and step up and identify yourselves!! Who will be first? I think we all know!

Now do you mean an asshole in this thread or just an asshole in general? Please be specific.

 

[torontoeers]

My first post in this thread... ...but yea, I know many people (here) consider me to be an ahole...

....so I guess I'm identifying myself.

Now what ?

Lmao!

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

Almost everyone in this thread are assholes and have no business being Mountaineer fans. Not everyone, mind you.. just most. OK... go ahead and step up and identify yourselves!! Who will be first? I think we all know!

If someone was not a Mountaineer fan wanting them to succeed, why would they even pay to be here? Posting and being an asshole are not necessarily mutually exclusive. I could be an asshole and not post or post and not be an asshole. But hey, why not enjoy two for one?

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

Don't act like Pat White and Steve Slaton were 5 star guys.....things lined up, two greats took advantage, and a good coach capitalized. No excuses, I said Dana is failing, but give him athletes like the Christian Horny Frogs have, and he would have a better record for sure. A 3 star in Texas is like a 4-5 star in most states. Florida is close, but still not as deep as the lone star state.

The state of Florida has more NFL players than the state of Texas. The city of Miami has more nfl players than Dallas and Houston combined How many national championships have Florida schools won in the last 30 years? How many have Texas schools won?

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

I understand your argument but in all honesty, a fair comparison cannot be made between Nehlen and Holgrosen. Too many variables and completely different eras. For example ill list Nehlens last year and schedule as well as Holgrosen most recent 2015 schedule.

2000 WVU 7-5:
Boston College W
Maryland W
Miami Fla L
Temple W
Idaho W
Virginia Tech L
Notre Dame L
Syracuse L
Rutgers W
East Carolina W
Pitt L
Music City Bowl Mississippi W

2015 WVU 8-5:
Georgia Southern W
Liberty W
Maryland W
OU L
oSu L
Baylor L
TCU L
TTU W
Texas W
KU W
ISU W
KSU L
Cactus Bowl Arizona State W

In 2000 one less game was played, it was Nehlens last year (lame duck). Your argument about competition level does not really work for a comparison. The 2000 schedule was just as or more difficult with a side by side comparison to the 2015 schedule.

I agree with your assessment between the 2000 and 2015 seasons. The records where similar and both seasons where void of any significant wins. Texas Tech was the only power 5 team we beat last season and they finished 7-6 which isn't saying much. The win over Ole miss was probably are best win that year but they where pretty much a door mat in the sec back in those days

 

[Mountain Man]

I agree with your assessment between the 2000 and 2015 seasons. The records where similar and both seasons where void of any significant wins. Texas Tech was the only power 5 team we beat last season and they finished 7-6 which isn't saying much. The win over Ole miss was probably are best win that year but they where pretty much a door mat in the sec back in those days

The years are quite comparable, both with losses we had no business losing to. Suckacuse in 00, you can also add in ND(if Lewis wasn't hurt during the 3rd Qtr) VT another lead we blew, Ole Miss was a middle pack SEC team that year. Eli Manning's Frosh year.

FF to 2015 losses to OkSt in OT. That play selection was pathetic in the OT round, OU, Both Gibson and Durante were beating the OU corners I was there. Skylar kept overthrowing. KSU why in the hell to you call a QB option with a limping Howard on 4th and one? The ASU team is about as equal to the 00 Ole Miss.

 

[Boomboom521]

The state of Florida has more NFL players than the state of Texas. The city of Miami has more nfl players than Dallas and Houston combined How many national championships have Florida schools won in the last 30 years? How many have Texas schools won?

My point was about depth my point was about depth for COLLEGE talent. But you're right, Florida is pretty big for talent too. But we aren't located in Florida last I checked (I know a former coach of ours went down there a while back--built a dynasty). TCU is IN Texas. A 2-3 hr drive is a lot cheaper than a 2-3 hr flight. It makes a difference in recruiting for a lot a players.

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

The years are quite comparable, both with losses we had no business losing to. Suckacuse in 00, you can also add in ND(if Lewis wasn't hurt during the 3rd Qtr) VT another lead we blew, Ole Miss was a middle pack SEC team that year. Eli Manning's Frosh year.

FF to 2015 losses to OkSt in OT. That play selection was pathetic in the OT round, OU, Both Gibson and Durante were beating the OU corners I was there. Skylar kept overthrowing. KSU why in the hell to you call a QB option with a limping Howard on 4th and one? The ASU team is about as equal to the 00 Ole Miss.

a 6-6 pac 12 team is equal to a 7-4 sec team?

 

[Papillion]

Alright, here is my take on it...

I started my WVU/TCU comparison with the 2005 season since that is the first season for TCU in MWC the previous conference for them until they moved to the Big-12 for the 2011 along with WVU. This comparison covers an 11 year period:

Gary Patterson has been the TCU head coach throughout this comparison span while WVU Rich for 3 years, 3 years for Bill, 1 year where Bill and Dana had the confusing and chaotic overlap and then 3 years for Dana solo.

2005-2007
*2005 was the last year of 11 game seasons, beginning in 2006 12 game seasons became the standard.

WVU-Rich Rodriguez
2005 - overall 11-1; 1st in Big East, beat Georgia; final rank AP #5
2006 - overall 11-2; 2nd in Big East, beat Georgia Tech; final rank AP #10
2007 - overall 11-2; 1st in Big East, beat Oklahoma, final rank AP #6

TCU-Gary Patterson
2005 - overall 11-1; 1st in MWC, beat Iowa State; final rank AP #11
2006 - overall 11-2; 2nd in MWC, beat Northern Illinois; final rank AP #22
2007 - overall 8-5; 5th in MWC, beat Houston; final rank AP # Unranked

At this point WVU is ahead of TCU in every category. TCU is beating middling teams or those from non BCS conferences while WVU has faced 2 conference champs (SEC and Big-12) as well as the ACC runner up and beaten them all. TCU actually nose-dives in the 3rd comparison year, but that was also the RICH trash-fest and train wreck at the end of the season.

2008-2010
WVU-Bill Stewart
2008 - overall 9-4, 3rd in Big East, beat UNC, final rank AP #23
2009 - overall 9-4, 2nd in Big East, lost to FSU, final rank AP #25
2010 - overall 9-4, 2nd in Big East, lost to NC State, final rank # Unranked

TCU-Gary Patterson
2008 - overall 11-2, 2nd in MWC, beat Boise State, final rank AP #7
2009 - overall 12-1, 1st in MWC, lost to Boise State, final rank AP #6
2010 - overall 13-0, 1st in MWC, beat Wisconsin, final rank AP #3 (3 1st place votes)

It is obvious that Bill Stewart was not getting the job down. With virtually the same team that was in the national title in 2007 hunt under Rich's last season, Bill Stewart got lost and was out coached in many games. Now it is TCU beating some hot teams while WVU is losing to mediocre teams.

2011 - the OMG what was WVU thinking year
WVU-Bill Stewart and Dana Holgorsen in a chaotic bitter relationship spread across the news papers
2011 - overall 10-3, 1st in Big East, crushed Clemson, final rank AP #17

TCU-Gary Patterson
2011 - overall 11-2, 1st in MWC, beat Louisiana Tech, final rank AP #14

The next seasons are the Big-12 years for both teams:
2012-2015

WVU-Dana Holgorsen
2012 - overall 7-6, 8th in Big-12, lost to Syracuse, final rank AP # Unranked
2013 - overall 4-8, 8th in Big-12, no bowl, final rank AP # Unranked
2014 - overall 7-6, 5th in Big-12, lost to Texas A&M, final rank AP # Unranked
2015 - overall 8-5, 5th in Big-12, beat Arizona State, final rank AP # Unranked

TCU-Gary Patterson
2012 - overall 7-6, 6th in Big-12, lost to Michigan State, final rank AP # Unranked
2013 - overall 4-8, 7th in Big-12, no bowl, final rank AP # Unranked
2014 - overall 12-1, 2nd in Big-12, beat Ole Miss, final rank AP #3
2015 - overall 11-2, 3rd in Big-12, beat Oregon, final rank AP #7

Conclusions:

Rich Rodriguez was a batter coach than was Gary Patterson in the years Rich was at WVU, but the difference was not that great. Patterson seems to have gotten better and Rich's success since he left WVU has been spotty to average. Comparing WVUs run under Rich to Patterson's run 2008-2010 run we get WVU 33-5 compared to TCU 36-3 which is fairly comparable. Comparing the contrast from those years, Bills 3 years is WVU 27-12 and Patterson's years of 2005-2007 at TCU 30-8.

Totals for that period are WVU 60-17 & TCU 66-11. It must be pointed out that WVU was facing 3 or 4 ranked teams per year during this time, while TCU was often facing 1 or none until their bowl game. The MWC was much inferior to the Big East in this time frame and so comparable records indicate WVU is doing as well against tougher competition. That should imply that WVU is better prepared for life in the Big-12 than is TCU.

Now the final period...

WVU and TCU have identical over all records their first two years in the Big-12 but TCU always held the tie breaker because WVU lost to them both times. The next two years is a world of difference; WVU goes15-11 and TCU runs 23-3.

Some will argue that TCU is getting Texas recruits. I am sure they are, but haven't they always been getting them? Texas and aTm can only snag so many before TCU and Baylor etc. snap up the rest, that did not suddenly change when TCU entered the Big-12. TCU's coach is the game throughout this comparison so that is a stable factor whereas WVU has 3 coaches. Rich was better, but only slightly, Bill was less than Patterson and Dana would appear to be even inferior to Bill Stewart, much less Gary Patterson.

Draw your won conclusions as I have. WVU is where it is because we have a head coach that took over for a guy that really was lucky to be an assistant, but that also Dana is employed at the wrong level of college football. He is an even less qualified Power Conference coach than Bill Stewart was, but we assume that Bill Stewart would remain stable in the Big-12, when some of us believe he would have performed just as poorly as Dana Holgorsen has done.

I have to take exception to a couple things because it just blows my mind where some of you come up with some of these remarks.

First off, Stew did not have virtually the same team after 2007 when he took over, unless you don't think much of Slaton, Schmidt and Reynaud who were all gone by then. That's just three of the top of my head.

The second point is over your remark about Stew being lucky just to be an assistant coach? Are you freakin serious? First off, Nehlen hired him and RR thought he was valuable enough to keep him on. He was a good recruiter but a GREAT leader.

He may not have turned that into great head coach but he was responsible for keeping that Fiesta Bowl team together after several players walked off when RR quit on them. He is the one who coached that team to a 3-TD win over #3 OU. I'll never understand why people keep trying to downplay his value at WVU.

Stew might not have won the conf while head coach, which he should have, but he certainly didn't kill it with three straight 9-win seasons and two bowl victories.

I want Dana to succeed but regardless of conf and schedule, Dana doesn't even come close to the strategist even Stew was. DH has killed more potential comebacks and games he should have won with his gambling calls than anyone I've seen in a long time.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

I have to take exception to a couple things because it just blows my mind where some of you come up with some of these remarks.

First off, Stew did not have virtually the same team after 2007 when he took over, unless you don't think much of Slaton, Schmidt and Reynaud who were all gone by then. That's just three of the top of my head.

The second point is over your remark about Stew being lucky just to be an assistant coach? Are you freakin serious? First off, Nehlen hired him and RR thought he was valuable enough to keep him on. He was a good recruiter but a GREAT leader.

He may not have turned that into great head coach but he was responsible for keeping that Fiesta Bowl team together after several players walked off when RR quit on them. He is the one who coached that team to a 3-TD win over #3 OU. I'll never understand why people keep trying to downplay his value at WVU.

Stew might not have won the conf while head coach, which he should have, but he certainly didn't kill it with three straight 9-win seasons and two bowl victories.

I want Dana to succeed but regardless of conf and schedule, Dana doesn't even come close to the strategist even Stew was. DH has killed more potential comebacks and games he should have won with his gambling calls than anyone I've seen in a long time.

You will probably piss some people off, but you make some very valid points. Dana is NOT a strategist and has proved it several times. He is usually quite honest about it.

 

[ThePunish-EER]

I have to take exception to a couple things because it just blows my mind where some of you come up with some of these remarks.

First off, Stew did not have virtually the same team after 2007 when he took over, unless you don't think much of Slaton, Schmidt and Reynaud who were all gone by then. That's just three of the top of my head.

The second point is over your remark about Stew being lucky just to be an assistant coach? Are you freakin serious? First off, Nehlen hired him and RR thought he was valuable enough to keep him on. He was a good recruiter but a GREAT leader.

He may not have turned that into great head coach but he was responsible for keeping that Fiesta Bowl team together after several players walked off when RR quit on them. He is the one who coached that team to a 3-TD win over #3 OU. I'll never understand why people keep trying to downplay his value at WVU.

Stew might not have won the conf while head coach, which he should have, but he certainly didn't kill it with three straight 9-win seasons and two bowl victories.

I want Dana to succeed but regardless of conf and schedule, Dana doesn't even come close to the strategist even Stew was. DH has killed more potential comebacks and games he should have won with his gambling calls than anyone I've seen in a long time.

lmao!!! This board is always good for entertainment value. "Dana doesn't come close to Stewart the strategist"? The top 2 highest scoring WVU teams in our entire history belong to Dana teams.

 

[Boomboom521]

lmao!!! This board is always good for entertainment value. "Dana doesn't come close to Stewart the strategist"? The top 2 highest scoring WVU teams in our entire history belong to Dana teams.

I understand giving Stewart credit. He was a good guy and players loved him, and that does matter. But I could have coached that team to a victory in the Fiesta, they weren't beating OK, they were beating RR. Stew zapped out mojo over the next couple of years. We went from a top Big East team to a next to the top Big East team (as even more talented programs left the conference). What I admit, is that Stewart had an uphill battle.....sanctions, high expectations from the RR era, low respect level from recruits (due to Stewart's failure as a HC at VMI). It was a tall order, and Stewart did OK at filling it. He was NOT a successful hire at all.

Dana has made enormous mistakes after taking over (mostly in his hiring of staff), and in my opinion at who he trusts an recruits at QB. But I see an upward trend (although VERY SLIGHT). Dana is young and is learning, I think that shows. But as much as I hate to say it.....Stewart AND Dana are NO Rich Rodriguez! I still curse that man for bailing on his state! He had a real chance at a NC under him! Say what you want, but it's true.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

I have to take exception to a couple things because it just blows my mind where some of you come up with some of these remarks.

First off, Stew did not have virtually the same team after 2007 when he took over, unless you don't think much of Slaton, Schmidt and Reynaud who were all gone by then. That's just three of the top of my head.

The second point is over your remark about Stew being lucky just to be an assistant coach? Are you freakin serious? First off, Nehlen hired him and RR thought he was valuable enough to keep him on. He was a good recruiter but a GREAT leader.

He may not have turned that into great head coach but he was responsible for keeping that Fiesta Bowl team together after several players walked off when RR quit on them. He is the one who coached that team to a 3-TD win over #3 OU. I'll never understand why people keep trying to downplay his value at WVU.

Stew might not have won the conf while head coach, which he should have, but he certainly didn't kill it with three straight 9-win seasons and two bowl victories.

I want Dana to succeed but regardless of conf and schedule, Dana doesn't even come close to the strategist even Stew was. DH has killed more potential comebacks and games he should have won with his gambling calls than anyone I've seen in a long time.

Your opinion is noted but it is shared by very few. Bill Stewart was a poor coach at this level and he was lucky to be an assistant. Is probably is exactly that he was from the Nehlen era. Stewart's strategy was from the 1970's and early 1980's and you might recall it was that inability to grow beyond that strategy and keep pace with the times that got Don canned. If Don could no longer make it work, Stewart had no chance being little more than a wanna be.

Everyone ties up their feelings for Bill the man with Bill the coach and the two are not interchangeable. Bill the coach earned his reputation on the field and it is that I speak of. His performance at the Oklahoma game was marginal and it was Magee that secured that victory, not Bill.

The stats for the next three years of the Stewart era speak for themselves; 9-3 with terrible loses and no key wins in a watered down conference with a full cupboard at the take over pretty much says it all.

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

lmao!!! This board is always good for entertainment value. "Dana doesn't come close to Stewart the strategist"? The top 2 highest scoring WVU teams in our entire history belong to Dana teams.

Could of used some of that high powered offense against Kansas and Iowa state back in 2013

 

[Papillion]

lmao!!! This board is always good for entertainment value. "Dana doesn't come close to Stewart the strategist"? The top 2 highest scoring WVU teams in our entire history belong to Dana teams.

I knew someone like you would come back with something completely unrelated. I'm talking strategy only. So tell me what good all those points did for those six and seven win teams that Dana's had? This of course is compared to all those stupid juvenile gambles on 3rd and 4th and short that cost this past team dearly.
You can say what you want about Stew but his teams were prepared and his was a good leader. You call Dana a leader with this work ethic and his nonsensical play calling?
We're all still waiting for something to happen from this great strategist.

 

[Papillion]

Your opinion is noted but it is shared by very few. Bill Stewart was a poor coach at this level and he was lucky to be an assistant. Is probably is exactly that he was from the Nehlen era. Stewart's strategy was from the 1970's and early 1980's and you might recall it was that inability to grow beyond that strategy and keep pace with the times that got Don canned. If Don could no longer make it work, Stewart had no chance being little more than a wanna be.

Everyone ties up their feelings for Bill the man with Bill the coach and the two are not interchangeable. Bill the coach earned his reputation on the field and it is that I speak of. His performance at the Oklahoma game was marginal and it was Magee that secured that victory, not Bill.

The stats for the next three years of the Stewart era speak for themselves; 9-3 with terrible loses and no key wins in a watered down conference with a full cupboard at the take over pretty much says it all.

"Shared by very few," how do you know that? There are many, many more people who just read the board but don't post. The one's who post don't have any magic wand or wisdom.
Your opinion of Stew is your business but just because someone says something positive about a coach who was criticized for this or that doesn't mean the comments are saying he was some great coach.
I've already given my pros and cons on Stew and he made his mistakes but he was a great leader and for you to downplay his involvement in that Fiesta Bowl team is plain ignorance. How do you know how much Calvin had to do with every play call and strategy? Unless you interviewed them or were in their ears during that game you don't know.
What is known is how he kept that team together and just about every player on that team vouched for him and the job he did.
This has nothing to do with wanting him back if he were still alive. People read too much into what someone says about things like this and then someone like you goes overboard taking things away from him.
Basically your statement about his "marginal" contribution in the Fiesta is ridiculous because you're now spouting off about things that you can't back up. Because I didn't hear any praise for good ole Calvin, the guy who bolted on that team or any other coach like they praised Stew. Criticize him for his subsequent three years but what he did for our program in that month was priceless.

 

[mofo]

"Shared by very few," how do you know that? There are many, many more people who just read the board but don't post. The one's who post don't have any magic wand or wisdom.
Your opinion of Stew is your business but just because someone says something positive about a coach who was criticized for this or that doesn't mean the comments are saying he was some great coach.
I've already given my pros and cons on Stew and he made his mistakes but he was a great leader and for you to downplay his involvement in that Fiesta Bowl team is plain ignorance. How do you know how much Calvin had to do with every play call and strategy? Unless you interviewed them or were in their ears during that game you don't know.
What is known is how he kept that team together and just about every player on that team vouched for him and the job he did.
This has nothing to do with wanting him back if he were still alive. People read too much into what someone says about things like this and then someone like you goes overboard taking things away from him.
Basically your statement about his "marginal" contribution in the Fiesta is ridiculous because you're now spouting off about things that you can't back up. Because I didn't hear any praise for good ole Calvin, the guy who bolted on that team or any other coach like they praised Stew. Criticize him for his subsequent three years but what he did for our program in that month was priceless.

...

nice summary

Bill Stewart is a 70% winning percent Head Coach...he was PRods prime recruiter, before HCs had recruiting coordinators...

Oliver Luck fired him because of fan base insecurities. ...
live with it....

and most WVU fans need to deal w the responsibilities of the comments they made here on this venue that drove that decision. ...

i don't see how WVU could
be considered a family atmosphere, they sell

 

[Boomboom521]

...

nice summary

Bill Stewart is a 70% winning percent Head Coach...he was PRods prime recruiter, before HCs had recruiting coordinators...

Oliver Luck fired him because of fan base insecurities. ...
live with it....

and most WVU fans need to deal w the responsibilities of the comments they made here on this venue that drove that decision. ...

i don't see how WVU could
be considered a family atmosphere, they sell

I can guarantee that no AD or HC give a flying fig about what anyone one of us "think we know it all" dorks have to say on this forum my friend. You have no clue why OL fired Stewart, but I do believe he chose the "head coach in waiting" status for Dana in order to give Stewart respect and allow him to appear to be retiring instead of being fired. I think he did this because he knew how much fans and players liked him.
And no disrespect to the man, but if he would have stayed on for a few more years, that percentage would have plummeted. He was a good man, a DECENT recruiter, and a mediocre head coach. Apply the same standards you are holding Dana to, and Stewart wouldn't be getting such positive reviews from you I imagine. Be objective.

 

[NCNEER]

I been watching Mountaineer Football since the first game my Uncle took me too circa1976-77. Thats was when the stadium was still downtown. WVU was a Eastern Independent.

Really enjoyed the Don Nehlen era. The new stadium, some national recognition and a budding Eastern Conference. The Nehlen Draw Play and a ground breaking QB Major Harris. Lived through the Nehlen cant win a bowl game upheaval. But The Mountaineers were always #1 to this fan.

Rich Rodriguez "Spot the Ball" and Touchdown city era. Coach Rod took what Nehlen built and super charged the football program. The Big East was underrated but was strong as ever. Still enjoy watching the Spread Option highlights from that time. Then things got sour and Rodriguez left.

Coach Stew era was under whelming but Stewart did a above average job overall. He had to deal with NCAA scholarship reductions stemming from the Rodriguez ran program. Stewart was a great Mountaineer and outstanding man, but he was old school in a time when the game was evolving and changing. Ultimately that cost him and he was pushed out. I understood the reason a change was needed but it was handled poorly.

Holgrosen and the "air raid" era. I bought in 100% and really hoped to see amazing things. When we lost to Kansas thats when i started thinking is Holgrosen going to become the Head Coach that we all wanted. At times I've seen flashes of what could be with Holgrosen. I continued to support Holgrosen through it all. Im at a point that i really hope he can turn the corner and get the Mountaineers into the top 3 spots in the Big XII. He is running out of time unfortunately and im beginning to doubt his ability to lead the Mountaineers.

Pastilong, Luck and Lyons. Three Athletic Directors each one vastly different from the one before him. But it seems like I'm seeing/reading the same negative criticisms and condemnation of our A.D. whether its Pastilong, Luck or now Lyons. Seems like some fans/alumni can not be satisfied no matter who the A.D. is currently.

The Mountaineers have always had down/rebuild years followed by good then great season(s). It will continue to be like this while other programs reload The Mountaineers rebuild. IMO The 2016 season will either make or break Holgrosen.

Lyons is doing a fine job and not coming to terms with Holg yet in regards to contract negotiations is not as damaging to the program as some want to conclude.

Assistant coaches come and go, having one leave doesn't mean something "toxic" or "bad" is occurring behind closed doors. I see it as a chance to find a really good assistant coach and improve the coaching staff.

/End rambling.

Lets go Mountaineers and Big XII

Pretty much where many of us are at. The one thing that is very different and hard for me to gauge is how good is the B12 in football compared to teams in the East that we played for most of the years you mentioned. With the exception of Kansas there are not too many gimme games in the B12. Would we ever have a coach at WVU that could gurantee 9-3 or 10-2 plus in the B12? The thing I do like about Holgs is he seems to have the ability to fix what is broke. I would hate to throw the bath water out when we are close. Who knows maybe the B12 is not as good as we make it look at times. Another thing I look at is Texas with all the talent, money and support they have has been struggling. So it's fair to assume the B12 is no cake walk. A big part of me suggest we have been going through some growing pains that any staff would have encountered and we are just now ready to move forward. Close last year but too many new faces on offense. I do think we have the talent in place this year to finally test the water but we will see. The university is investing in all things related to B12 sports and eventually all that will factor in. To me it's all been the price we had to pay to transition from the Big East to the B12. Not what we wanted but also not the end of the world or us not being competitive. We have had a ton of losses that were near wins that would have made a huge difference in success vs. failure. This year most think our offense will be very good and our defense could be good enough. The thing on defense is we do have a very sold core and a lot of players who have talent ....we need leaders to emerge. My thinking is if we can have 8-4,or better this season, this program may have turned the corner with better times ahead. To do that we need a very good September and the schedule seems to be in our favor this year.

 

[WB67hawk]

NCNEER- Very good ,well thought out post. You brought some sanity to the thread.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

"Shared by very few," how do you know that? There are many, many more people who just read the board but don't post. The one's who post don't have any magic wand or wisdom.
Your opinion of Stew is your business but just because someone says something positive about a coach who was criticized for this or that doesn't mean the comments are saying he was some great coach.
I've already given my pros and cons on Stew and he made his mistakes but he was a great leader and for you to downplay his involvement in that Fiesta Bowl team is plain ignorance. How do you know how much Calvin had to do with every play call and strategy? Unless you interviewed them or were in their ears during that game you don't know.
What is known is how he kept that team together and just about every player on that team vouched for him and the job he did.
This has nothing to do with wanting him back if he were still alive. People read too much into what someone says about things like this and then someone like you goes overboard taking things away from him.
Basically your statement about his "marginal" contribution in the Fiesta is ridiculous because you're now spouting off about things that you can't back up. Because I didn't hear any praise for good ole Calvin, the guy who bolted on that team or any other coach like they praised Stew. Criticize him for his subsequent three years but what he did for our program in that month was priceless.

Simple, personal experience and I do not mean personal experience from this board. I mean at various events, gatherings and networks of friends. The only people I ever meet that regard Bill Stewart as a good coach are those, like you, on this board. Then again, it may have something to do with my selection of company, but in my business I meet many people for the first time and when the discussion turns to WVU, the opinion of Bill Stewart hovers around the same theme, good man, so-so coach and what a way to screw it all up at the end. So, yes, an opinion shared by few.

Bill's record without Magee is all the proof needed to draw that conclusion if one had no other input and there is plenty of discussion by former team members from that team on who was doing what at the game. Bill, was out of his element on offense. Not once did he display any ability to adapt to the modern game in his tenure.

 

[Papillion]

Simple, personal experience and I do not mean personal experience from this board. I mean at various events, gatherings and networks of friends. The only people I ever meet that regard Bill Stewart as a good coach are those, like you, on this board. Then again, it may have something to do with my selection of company, but in my business I meet many people for the first time and when the discussion turns to WVU, the opinion of Bill Stewart hovers around the same theme, good man, so-so coach and what a way to screw it all up at the end. So, yes, an opinion shared by few.

Bill's record without Magee is all the proof needed to draw that conclusion if one had no other input and there is plenty of discussion by former team members from that team on who was doing what at the game. Bill, was out of his element on offense. Not once did he display any ability to adapt to the modern game in his tenure.

I'm not saying Stew was some good coach. But it depends on what you're talking about within the coaching ranks. What I took exception to was the part of strategist compared to Dana. DH doesn't play real football in some ways. He takes way too many chances.
Now maybe you think Stew didn't take enough but he played to move the sticks is all I'm saying regarding strategy, DH does not and it coast us in many games. Where Stew cost us was changing that offense when he still had PW. That was his downfall because it really made Mullen stick out like a soar thumb in some ways.
Plus, he let Johnson change the blocking scheme so now with PW sill around they have to learn to block differently. I think that's what hurt Stew. It wasn't in game stuff as much as what he decided after he took over.
Stew's major downfall was trying too hard not to be like RR and he went overboard.
The overall point is someone thought enough of him to give him a head coaching job at VMI then Nehlen hired him and RR kept him on. There was a reason for all that. And Mofo hit the nail on the head when he said Luck fired Stew because of fan base insecurities. Maybe not completely but I don't doubt it had something to do with it.
People can say what they want about Internet message boards but we are not phantoms behind these keyboards we are real people. The same people that go to the games and go to functions and call in on radio shows and give to the school.
The Internet is becoming more influential by the year and that is a fact.

 

[ThePunish-EER]

I'm not saying Stew was some good coach. But it depends on what you're talking about within the coaching ranks. What I took exception to was the part of strategist compared to Dana. DH doesn't play real football in some ways. He takes way too many chances.
Now maybe you think Stew didn't take enough but he played to move the sticks is all I'm saying regarding strategy, DH does not and it coast us in many games. Where Stew cost us was changing that offense when he still had PW. That was his downfall because it really made Mullen stick out like a soar thumb in some ways.
Plus, he let Johnson change the blocking scheme so now with PW sill around they have to learn to block differently. I think that's what hurt Stew. It wasn't in game stuff as much as what he decided after he took over.
Stew's major downfall was trying too hard not to be like RR and he went overboard.
The overall point is someone thought enough of him to give him a head coaching job at VMI then Nehlen hired him and RR kept him on. There was a reason for all that. And Mofo hit the nail on the head when he said Luck fired Stew because of fan base insecurities. Maybe not completely but I don't doubt it had something to do with it.
People can say what they want about Internet message boards but we are not phantoms behind these keyboards we are real people. The same people that go to the games and go to functions and call in on radio shows and give to the school.
The Internet is becoming more influential by the year and that is a fact.

lmao pure comedy gold. Keep 'em coming! Stew the strategist lol. Stew was only fired due to fanbase insecurities? Lol.

Now the truth. Stew's major downfall was that he wasn't a good coach. Period.

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

lmao pure comedy gold. Keep 'em coming! Stew the strategist lol. Stew was only fired due to fanbase insecurities? Lol.

Now the truth. Stew's major downfall was that he wasn't a good coach. Period.

If Dana gets fired after the 2016 season it will be because he isn't that good of a coach. He has a perfect opportunity to win 9+ games and compete for the conference title this season. The majority of the offense is back and based on the recent power structure of the big 12 all the teams that have competed for the conference title except for Okie state have to come to Morgantown. The future is now no more excuses

 

[mofo]

I'm not saying Stew was some good coach. But it depends on what you're talking about within the coaching ranks. What I took exception to was the part of strategist compared to Dana. DH doesn't play real football in some ways. He takes way too many chances.
Now maybe you think Stew didn't take enough but he played to move the sticks is all I'm saying regarding strategy, DH does not and it coast us in many games. Where Stew cost us was changing that offense when he still had PW. That was his downfall because it really made Mullen stick out like a soar thumb in some ways.
Plus, he let Johnson change the blocking scheme so now with PW sill around they have to learn to block differently. I think that's what hurt Stew. It wasn't in game stuff as much as what he decided after he took over.
Stew's major downfall was trying too hard not to be like RR and he went overboard.
The overall point is someone thought enough of him to give him a head coaching job at VMI then Nehlen hired him and RR kept him on. There was a reason for all that. And Mofo hit the nail on the head when he said Luck fired Stew because of fan base insecurities. Maybe not completely but I don't doubt it had something to do with it.
People can say what they want about Internet message boards but we are not phantoms behind these keyboards we are real people. The same people that go to the games and go to functions and call in on radio shows and give to the school.
The Internet is becoming more influential by the year and that is a fact.

amazing, this venue was drooling over
Terry Bowden....

 

[ThePunish-EER]

If Dana gets fired after the 2016 season it will be because he isn't that good of a coach. He has a perfect opportunity to win 9+ games and compete for the conference title this season. The majority of the offense is back and based on the recent power structure of the big 12 all the teams that have competed for the conference title except for Okie state have to come to Morgantown. The future is now no more excuses

in case you fell asleep, we lost our best RB to the NFL. Smallwood won't be easy to replace. Every year is a juggernaut in the big 12. It's never a down year.

 

[mofo]

THAT'S always the job of the HC...clean up the roster and move on...

not live on fan base excuses

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

in case you fell asleep, we lost our best RB to the NFL. Smallwood won't be easy to replace. Every year is a juggernaut in the big 12. It's never a down year.

Well Wvu historically has had a strong running game and this is DH 6 year which is enough time to build up the necessary depth. Every team in the conference losses key players. No more excuses the home schedule is favorable the big 12 is only a juggernaut until bowl season

 

[ThePunish-EER]

Well Wvu historically has had a strong running game and this is DH 6 year which is enough time to build up the necessary depth. Every team in the conference losses key players. No more excuses the home schedule is favorable the big 12 is only a juggernaut until bowl season

you contradicted yourself. On one hand, you say "no more excuses. This is DH 6th year, enough time to build depth. Every team in the conference loses key players.". Then you say, "this is the year for WVU because the conference is down". So which is it? WVU should be able to lose key players and not have a down year? But other big 12 schools can lose key players and expect down years? And all home games in Morgantown should be automatic wins? You make no sense. As usual.

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

you contradicted yourself. On one hand, you say "no more excuses. This is DH 6th year, enough time to build depth. Every team in the conference loses key players.". Then you say, "this is the year for WVU because the conference is down". So which is it? WVU should be able to lose key players and not have a down year? But other big 12 schools can lose key players and expect down years? And all home games in Morgantown should be automatic wins? You make no sense. As usual.

When did i ever say the conference is down? If DH is a good coach which you claim him to be then there is no excuse why he can't compete for a conference title this year. You can't go on making excuses like we lose are best RB. Next year it will be something else the previous year it was some other excuse. The time to produce is now. we don't play in the sec its time to start putting a beat down on these teams at home. Everyone else puts a beat down on the Big 12 come bowl season

 

[ThePunish-EER]

When did i ever say the conference is down? If DH is a good coach which you claim him to be then there is no excuse why he can't compete for a conference title this year. You can't go on making excuses like we lose are best RB. Next year it will be something else the previous year it was some other excuse. The time to produce is now. we don't play in the sec its time to start putting a beat down on these teams at home. Everyone else puts a beat down on the Big 12 come bowl season

and there again, is where you fail. Until you understand WVU is a 7-9 win a year program, you will continue to fail in your repetitive argument. WVU is not a blue blood. Never has been. We don't have instate recruiting base to ever be one. Over the last 30+ years, we have been a 7-8 win average program. For nearly 20 years we played in the weak big east. Now, we are still winning 7-8 games a year in the 2nd best conference in America behind the SEC. We are producing. That shows Dana is a good coach. Deal with it. Embrace it. Learn it.