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When can you fire a government worker? ...After 30 days of govt shutdown.

WVU82

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May 29, 2001
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looks like Trump has played the idiot dems...

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/01/trumps_shutdown_trap.html#.XD37xnxCaFo.twitter

Has President Trump suckered Democrats and the Deep State into a trap that will enable a radical downsizing of the federal bureaucracy? In only five more days of the already "longest government shutdown in history" (25 days and counting, as of today), a heretofore obscure threshold will be reached, enabling permanent layoffs of bureaucrats furloughed 30 days or more.

Don't believe me that federal bureaucrats can be laid off? Well, in bureaucratese, a layoff is called a RIF – a Reduction in Force – and of course, it comes with a slew of civil service protections. But, if the guidelines are followed, bureaucrats can be laid off – as in no more job. It is all explained by Michael Roberts here (updated after the beginning of the partial shutdown):

A reduction in force is a thoughtful and systematic elimination of positions. For all practical purposes, a government RIF is the same thing as a layoff. ...

Organizations must stick to predetermined criteria when sorting out what happens to each employee. They must communicate with employees how and why decisions are made. ...

In deciding who stays and who goes, federal agencies must take four factors into account:


1. Tenure

2. Veteran status

3. Total federal civilian and military service

4. Performance

Agencies cannot use RIF procedures to fire bad employees.

A lot of procedures must be followed, and merit ("performance") is the last consideration, but based on the criteria above, employees already furloughed can be laid off ("RIFed") once they have been furloughed for 30 days or 22 work days:

When agencies furlough employees for more than 30 calendar days or 22 discontinuous work days, they must use RIF procedures.

An employee can be terminated or moved into an available position[.]

This seems to be what was referenced in this remarkable essay written by an "unidentified senior Trump official" published in the Daily Caller, which vouches for the authenticity of the author and explains that it is protecting him from adverse career consequences should the name become known. I strongly recommend reading the whole thing.

The purported senior official makes the case that devotion to "process" eats up most of the time of federal bureaucrats and is also used by enemies of President Trump's initiatives to stymie the legitimate orders issued by his senior officials:

On an average day, roughly 15 percent of the employees around me are exceptional patriots serving their country. I wish I could give competitive salaries to them and no one else. But 80 percent feel no pressure to produce results. If they don't feel like doing what they are told, they don't.

Why would they? We can't fire them. They avoid attention, plan their weekend, schedule vacation, their second job, their next position – some do this in the same position for more than a decade.

They do nothing that warrants punishment and nothing of external value. That is their workday: errands for the sake of errands – administering, refining, following and collaborating on process. "Process is your friend" is what delusional civil servants tell themselves. Even senior officials must gain approval from every rank across their department, other agencies and work units for basic administrative chores.

Then the senior official notes what I have just called the "trap":

Most of my career colleagues actively work against the president's agenda. This means I typically spend about 15 percent of my time on the president's agenda and 85 percent of my time trying to stop sabotage, and we have no power to get rid of them. Until the shutdown.

Those officials who waste time and stymie the president's initiatives now are not present because they are not categorized as "essential."

Due to the lack of funding, many federal agencies are now operating more effectively from the top down on a fraction of their workforce, with only select essential personnel serving national security tasks. ...

President Trump can end this abuse. Senior officials can reprioritize during an extended shutdown, focus on valuable results and weed out the saboteurs. We do not want most employees to return, because we are working better without them.

Keep in mind that saboteurs cannot be individually identified and RIFed, but they can be included in the layoffs if they meet the criteria above in terms of seniority and service, and they must be given 60 days' notice. But once they are gone, they are no longer free to obstruct using the "process" as their friend, because they are gone.

You can expect lawsuits on every conceivable point, and I suspect that the definition of "furlough" will be one matter of dispute.

If this was the plan all along, it would explain why President Trump goaded Chuck and Nancy in his televised meeting with them last year, boasting that he would claim credit for the shutdown. How could they resist a prolonged shutdown when he made it so easy to blame him?

President Trump has proven that he is a "disruptor" who changes the framework of thinking on major issues by refusing to accept the "givens" – the assumptions of how things always have been done and therefore always must be done.

So who is the "senior official"? I don't know, but I think Stephen Miller is the sort of bold thinker who might volunteer to telegraph the strategy just five days before the deadline. Give Chuck and Nancy something to think about and probably reject as unthinkable. Then they can't complain that they weren't warned once the trap is sprung.

Such a mass RIF would be the Trump version of Ronald Reagan firing the air traffic controllers when they went on an illegal strike in 1981. That was completely unexpected by his enemies, vehemently criticized, and successful.

Among other benefits, it taught the leaders of the USSR that Ronald Reagan was a man whose threats cannot be dismissed as mere rhetoric. If you think that Xi Jinping, Kim Jong-un, Angela Merkel, and any other foreign leaders would not draw the same conclusion from a massive RIF, then you are kidding yourself.
 
Furloughs of more than 30 calendar days are covered under reduction in force procedures found
in Subpart B of 5 CFR 351.

Furloughs for Senior Executive Service (SES) members are covered
Subpart H of 5 CFR Part 359.

"Excepted employees" refers to employees who are excepted from a furlough by law because
they are (1) performing emergency work involving the safety of human life or the protection of
property, (2) involved in the orderly suspension of agency operations, or (3) performing other
functions exempted from the furlough.


5 CFR Part 351 - REDUCTION IN FORCE | US Law | LII / Legal ...
Subpart D - Scope of Competition (§§ 351.401 - 351.405) Subpart E - Retention Standing (§§ 351.501 - 351.506) Subpart F - Release From Competitive Level (§§ 351.601 - 351.608)
 
https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/CFR-2011-title5-vol1/CFR-2011-title5-vol1-part351

5 CFR 351 - REDUCTION IN FORCE

(2) Each agency shall follow this part
when it releases a competing employee
from his or her competitive level by
furlough for more than 30 days, separation,
demotion, or reassignment requiring
displacement, when the release is
required because of lack of work; shortage
of funds; insufficient personnel
ceiling; reorganization; the exercise of
reemployment rights or restoration
rights; or reclassification of an employee’s
position die to erosion of duties
when such action will take effect
after an agency has formally announced
a reduction in force in the employee’s
competitive area and when the
reduction in force will take effect within
180 days.
 
By any means possible to downsize the massive, inefficient, corrupt Shithole.
looks like Trump has played the idiot dems...

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/01/trumps_shutdown_trap.html#.XD37xnxCaFo.twitter

Has President Trump suckered Democrats and the Deep State into a trap that will enable a radical downsizing of the federal bureaucracy? In only five more days of the already "longest government shutdown in history" (25 days and counting, as of today), a heretofore obscure threshold will be reached, enabling permanent layoffs of bureaucrats furloughed 30 days or more.

Don't believe me that federal bureaucrats can be laid off? Well, in bureaucratese, a layoff is called a RIF – a Reduction in Force – and of course, it comes with a slew of civil service protections. But, if the guidelines are followed, bureaucrats can be laid off – as in no more job. It is all explained by Michael Roberts here (updated after the beginning of the partial shutdown):

A reduction in force is a thoughtful and systematic elimination of positions. For all practical purposes, a government RIF is the same thing as a layoff. ...

Organizations must stick to predetermined criteria when sorting out what happens to each employee. They must communicate with employees how and why decisions are made. ...

In deciding who stays and who goes, federal agencies must take four factors into account:


1. Tenure

2. Veteran status

3. Total federal civilian and military service

4. Performance

Agencies cannot use RIF procedures to fire bad employees.

A lot of procedures must be followed, and merit ("performance") is the last consideration, but based on the criteria above, employees already furloughed can be laid off ("RIFed") once they have been furloughed for 30 days or 22 work days:

When agencies furlough employees for more than 30 calendar days or 22 discontinuous work days, they must use RIF procedures.

An employee can be terminated or moved into an available position[.]

This seems to be what was referenced in this remarkable essay written by an "unidentified senior Trump official" published in the Daily Caller, which vouches for the authenticity of the author and explains that it is protecting him from adverse career consequences should the name become known. I strongly recommend reading the whole thing.

The purported senior official makes the case that devotion to "process" eats up most of the time of federal bureaucrats and is also used by enemies of President Trump's initiatives to stymie the legitimate orders issued by his senior officials:

On an average day, roughly 15 percent of the employees around me are exceptional patriots serving their country. I wish I could give competitive salaries to them and no one else. But 80 percent feel no pressure to produce results. If they don't feel like doing what they are told, they don't.

Why would they? We can't fire them. They avoid attention, plan their weekend, schedule vacation, their second job, their next position – some do this in the same position for more than a decade.

They do nothing that warrants punishment and nothing of external value. That is their workday: errands for the sake of errands – administering, refining, following and collaborating on process. "Process is your friend" is what delusional civil servants tell themselves. Even senior officials must gain approval from every rank across their department, other agencies and work units for basic administrative chores.

Then the senior official notes what I have just called the "trap":

Most of my career colleagues actively work against the president's agenda. This means I typically spend about 15 percent of my time on the president's agenda and 85 percent of my time trying to stop sabotage, and we have no power to get rid of them. Until the shutdown.

Those officials who waste time and stymie the president's initiatives now are not present because they are not categorized as "essential."

Due to the lack of funding, many federal agencies are now operating more effectively from the top down on a fraction of their workforce, with only select essential personnel serving national security tasks. ...

President Trump can end this abuse. Senior officials can reprioritize during an extended shutdown, focus on valuable results and weed out the saboteurs. We do not want most employees to return, because we are working better without them.

Keep in mind that saboteurs cannot be individually identified and RIFed, but they can be included in the layoffs if they meet the criteria above in terms of seniority and service, and they must be given 60 days' notice. But once they are gone, they are no longer free to obstruct using the "process" as their friend, because they are gone.

You can expect lawsuits on every conceivable point, and I suspect that the definition of "furlough" will be one matter of dispute.

If this was the plan all along, it would explain why President Trump goaded Chuck and Nancy in his televised meeting with them last year, boasting that he would claim credit for the shutdown. How could they resist a prolonged shutdown when he made it so easy to blame him?

President Trump has proven that he is a "disruptor" who changes the framework of thinking on major issues by refusing to accept the "givens" – the assumptions of how things always have been done and therefore always must be done.

So who is the "senior official"? I don't know, but I think Stephen Miller is the sort of bold thinker who might volunteer to telegraph the strategy just five days before the deadline. Give Chuck and Nancy something to think about and probably reject as unthinkable. Then they can't complain that they weren't warned once the trap is sprung.

Such a mass RIF would be the Trump version of Ronald Reagan firing the air traffic controllers when they went on an illegal strike in 1981. That was completely unexpected by his enemies, vehemently criticized, and successful.

Among other benefits, it taught the leaders of the USSR that Ronald Reagan was a man whose threats cannot be dismissed as mere rhetoric. If you think that Xi Jinping, Kim Jong-un, Angela Merkel, and any other foreign leaders would not draw the same conclusion from a massive RIF, then you are kidding yourself.
PERFECT
 
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He's not that stupid.....


hold-my-beer.jpg
 
looks like Trump has played the idiot dems...

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/01/trumps_shutdown_trap.html#.XD37xnxCaFo.twitter

Has President Trump suckered Democrats and the Deep State into a trap that will enable a radical downsizing of the federal bureaucracy? In only five more days of the already "longest government shutdown in history" (25 days and counting, as of today), a heretofore obscure threshold will be reached, enabling permanent layoffs of bureaucrats furloughed 30 days or more.

Don't believe me that federal bureaucrats can be laid off? Well, in bureaucratese, a layoff is called a RIF – a Reduction in Force – and of course, it comes with a slew of civil service protections. But, if the guidelines are followed, bureaucrats can be laid off – as in no more job. It is all explained by Michael Roberts here (updated after the beginning of the partial shutdown):

A reduction in force is a thoughtful and systematic elimination of positions. For all practical purposes, a government RIF is the same thing as a layoff. ...

Organizations must stick to predetermined criteria when sorting out what happens to each employee. They must communicate with employees how and why decisions are made. ...

In deciding who stays and who goes, federal agencies must take four factors into account:


1. Tenure

2. Veteran status

3. Total federal civilian and military service

4. Performance

Agencies cannot use RIF procedures to fire bad employees.

A lot of procedures must be followed, and merit ("performance") is the last consideration, but based on the criteria above, employees already furloughed can be laid off ("RIFed") once they have been furloughed for 30 days or 22 work days:

When agencies furlough employees for more than 30 calendar days or 22 discontinuous work days, they must use RIF procedures.

An employee can be terminated or moved into an available position[.]

This seems to be what was referenced in this remarkable essay written by an "unidentified senior Trump official" published in the Daily Caller, which vouches for the authenticity of the author and explains that it is protecting him from adverse career consequences should the name become known. I strongly recommend reading the whole thing.

The purported senior official makes the case that devotion to "process" eats up most of the time of federal bureaucrats and is also used by enemies of President Trump's initiatives to stymie the legitimate orders issued by his senior officials:

On an average day, roughly 15 percent of the employees around me are exceptional patriots serving their country. I wish I could give competitive salaries to them and no one else. But 80 percent feel no pressure to produce results. If they don't feel like doing what they are told, they don't.

Why would they? We can't fire them. They avoid attention, plan their weekend, schedule vacation, their second job, their next position – some do this in the same position for more than a decade.

They do nothing that warrants punishment and nothing of external value. That is their workday: errands for the sake of errands – administering, refining, following and collaborating on process. "Process is your friend" is what delusional civil servants tell themselves. Even senior officials must gain approval from every rank across their department, other agencies and work units for basic administrative chores.

Then the senior official notes what I have just called the "trap":

Most of my career colleagues actively work against the president's agenda. This means I typically spend about 15 percent of my time on the president's agenda and 85 percent of my time trying to stop sabotage, and we have no power to get rid of them. Until the shutdown.

Those officials who waste time and stymie the president's initiatives now are not present because they are not categorized as "essential."

Due to the lack of funding, many federal agencies are now operating more effectively from the top down on a fraction of their workforce, with only select essential personnel serving national security tasks. ...

President Trump can end this abuse. Senior officials can reprioritize during an extended shutdown, focus on valuable results and weed out the saboteurs. We do not want most employees to return, because we are working better without them.

Keep in mind that saboteurs cannot be individually identified and RIFed, but they can be included in the layoffs if they meet the criteria above in terms of seniority and service, and they must be given 60 days' notice. But once they are gone, they are no longer free to obstruct using the "process" as their friend, because they are gone.

You can expect lawsuits on every conceivable point, and I suspect that the definition of "furlough" will be one matter of dispute.

If this was the plan all along, it would explain why President Trump goaded Chuck and Nancy in his televised meeting with them last year, boasting that he would claim credit for the shutdown. How could they resist a prolonged shutdown when he made it so easy to blame him?

President Trump has proven that he is a "disruptor" who changes the framework of thinking on major issues by refusing to accept the "givens" – the assumptions of how things always have been done and therefore always must be done.

So who is the "senior official"? I don't know, but I think Stephen Miller is the sort of bold thinker who might volunteer to telegraph the strategy just five days before the deadline. Give Chuck and Nancy something to think about and probably reject as unthinkable. Then they can't complain that they weren't warned once the trap is sprung.

Such a mass RIF would be the Trump version of Ronald Reagan firing the air traffic controllers when they went on an illegal strike in 1981. That was completely unexpected by his enemies, vehemently criticized, and successful.

Among other benefits, it taught the leaders of the USSR that Ronald Reagan was a man whose threats cannot be dismissed as mere rhetoric. If you think that Xi Jinping, Kim Jong-un, Angela Merkel, and any other foreign leaders would not draw the same conclusion from a massive RIF, then you are kidding yourself.
so you’re cheeringnthe fact that thousands of people will be out of jobs? that’s sick and twisted. also the govt relies on contract staff to fill gaps soooooooo. what would really be accomplished
 
'cheering' wouldn't be the correct word....

'hoping' or 'wanting' would be closer to the truth...

85% are dems...

it'd be a sweet swamp drainin'....


news has been showing dems partying in Puerto Rico enjoying themselves...

and Trump in the White House for the past 30 days...

how do 'you' think this RIF will be viewed by the individuals who lose their jobs ?
 
'cheering' wouldn't be the correct word....

'hoping' or 'wanting' would be closer to the truth...

85% are dems...

it'd be a sweet swamp drainin'....


news has been showing dems partying in Puerto Rico enjoying themselves...

and Trump in the White House for the past 30 days...

how do 'you' think this RIF will be viewed by the individuals who lose their jobs ?
what does someone’s political preference have to do with their ability to do their job? why should someone be fired because they have an R or D by their name? isn’t that dangerous?
 
'cheering' wouldn't be the correct word....

'hoping' or 'wanting' would be closer to the truth...

85% are dems...

it'd be a sweet swamp drainin'....


news has been showing dems partying in Puerto Rico enjoying themselves...

and Trump in the White House for the past 30 days...

how do 'you' think this RIF will be viewed by the individuals who lose their jobs ?

So, because someone is a registered Democrat that makes them part of the "swamp"? You've lost your conservative mind. And no way this happens because too big of a hit on Donnie's unemployment rate.....[winking]
 
'cheering' wouldn't be the correct word....

'hoping' or 'wanting' would be closer to the truth...

85% are dems...

it'd be a sweet swamp drainin'....


news has been showing dems partying in Puerto Rico enjoying themselves...

and Trump in the White House for the past 30 days...

how do 'you' think this RIF will be viewed by the individuals who lose their jobs ?
as a federal employee i can tell you how the rif will be viewed. and when your don’t get your tax refund or families pay $20.00/person to visit the museums, please make sure you take credit for it.
 
The IRS has started processing tax returns...

stop lying...
 
The IRS has started processing tax returns...

stop lying...
you’re nit that smart. they’re only going to get done IF those govt employees -that you want to get rid of- report to work without pay- and your refund is going to be late (no money). so expand that beyond the end of your nose - you get rid of those employees you get rid of your refund.....

Oh and spare me that bit about getting back pay.... those employees still have to pay for food, rent, gas (for the car), day care for the kiddies, and a few other things.

You should learn more about the world around you....instead of rehashing someone else’s thoughts.
 
you’re nit that smart. they’re only going to get done IF those govt employees -that you want to get rid of- report to work without pay- and your refund is going to be late (no money). so expand that beyond the end of your nose - you get rid of those employees you get rid of your refund.....

Oh and spare me that bit about getting back pay.... those employees still have to pay for food, rent, gas (for the car), day care for the kiddies, and a few other things.

You should learn more about the world around you....instead of rehashing someone else’s thoughts.

WVU82 doesn't care. Trust me.
 
I work @ Treasury AND WE STARTED YESTERDAY !

effin' idiots...
 
I work @ Treasury AND WE STARTED YESTERDAY !

effin' idiots...
You posted, responded to, or liked 66 separate things on this board so far today. Many of those posts are tweets with attached articles. To say that you work anywhere is a stretch.
 
as a federal employee i can tell you how the rif will be viewed. and when your don’t get your tax refund or families pay $20.00/person to visit the museums, please make sure you take credit for it.

I understand that a RIF would be selective? Just like the private world, they lay off who they want, not just an overall percentage across the board.
 
You posted, responded to, or liked 66 separate things on this board so far today. Many of those posts are tweets with attached articles. To say that you work anywhere is a stretch.

you assume too much...
 
so idiots, when thousands of gov't employees get RIFFED next week...

how are those Dems that were partying it up in Puerto Rico going to explain their cases ?

Trump has been in White House for 30 days...waiting...

he has ALL you idiots dancing like marionettes...
 
I understand that a RIF would be selective? Just like the private world, they lay off who they want, not just an overall percentage across the board.

RIF isn’t something that’s normally done and it’s typically frowned upon. Last time I can remember a RIF happening was in the 90s with some Defense agencies. Traditionally, the gov’t wants you to either retire early (and will toss out a nice bribe to make that happen) or offer a buy out to go away (usually 25K before taxes.). If you’re getting rid of an entire agency or department, then everyone is gone but they are giving preference when applying for another job. Typically, management already knows who is and who is not going to be kept and will find ways (via reassignments) to keep the ones they want and terminate the ones they don’t.
 
so idiots, when thousands of gov't employees get RIFFED next week...

how are those Dems that were partying it up in Puerto Rico going to explain their cases ?

Trump has been in White House for 30 days...waiting...

he has ALL you idiots dancing like marionettes...

So are you looking forward to being fired?
 
and you're lying AGAIN...


I'm immune to the RIF...
Then you must be a contractor or the president of the United States.

So then are you happy to see your co-workers go away and be without a job and lose their house?
 
some of them will lose their jobs...

good thing Trump made more jobs...

happy... no, but it's needed to move forward...

I'm looking forward to the #GitmoTour2019, it's going to be awesome...
 
some of them will lose their jobs...

good thing Trump made more jobs...

happy... no, but it's needed to move forward...

I'm looking forward to the #GitmoTour2019, it's going to be awesome...

So again, what agency are you at and what’s your series?

How is it that you’re exempt from any RIF?

How do your co-workers feel about your cheering on their termination?
 
All your idiot dems have to do is give Trump the wall...

a lousy $5B...

but now it's going to cost at least $25B, because you waited...

and Trump might not sign until day 31...

then he wins TWICE...
 
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