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What division do you want WVU in?

B

Buckaineer

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Sep 3, 2001
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With the announcement of a 10 team CCG starting in 2017, and the commissioner stating they'll probably go to two five team divisions--what division do you want WVU in?

There will still be round robin play--but probably other divisional play will all be in the early part of the season--and the division winners would advance to the CCG.

Is it better for something like this for WVU?

WVU
ISU
KU
KSU
OSU

or is it better to be in an all Texas division which several outlets are now proposing?

WVU
Texas
TCU
Baylor
Texas Tech

or maybe something In between like:

WVU
OU
TCU
Kansas State
Iowa State
 
The Texas division seems, for really no logical reason, a better fit for WVU.

Divisions before expansion are still very important IMO. If/when the Big 12 expands it's easier to just toss one team (if only two are added) into each division than to do a complete re-evaluation and division shuffle.

I'm not sure the conference has the foresight though..even though, despite what is claimed, they have an idea of who they would add if they made decision to expand.
 
Wonder if the divisional play of the first alignment could hurt WVU in playoff selection--although they will still play the other schools, would their division be seen as "weak" compared to say Iowa or Georgia Tech?

WVUs best option is probably whichever division gives them the best shot to win the conference.
 
The only two transposable schools when it comes to divisional alignment are Iowa State and WVU. The Texas schools will all stay together, as will Kansas/Kansas State and Oklahoma/Oklahoma State. I don't think it's wise to have Iowa State and Kansas in the same division, so what makes the most sense is to have:

WVU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State...then...

Texas, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Iowa State.

This is the ONLY scenario that makes sense.
 
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big_country90 said:
The only two transposable schools when it comes to divisional alignment are Iowa State and WVU. The Texas schools will all stay together, as will Kansas/Kansas State and Oklahoma/Oklahoma State. I don't think it's wise to have Iowa State and Kansas in the same division, so what makes the most sense is to have:

WVU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State...then...

Texas, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Iowa State.

This is the ONLY scenario that makes sense.
Click to expand...


Why does that (only) make sense ? Basically you made it so big rivals (except TX-OK) couldn't meet in the championship game.
 
Unless the Big 12 expands it makes no sense whatsoever to form divisions. If they want a championship game just let #1 play #2 and forget about it.
 
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old buzzard said:
Unless the Big 12 expands it makes no sense whatsoever to form divisions. If they want a championship game just let #1 play #2 and forget about it.
Click to expand...

I think that the conference doesn't want teams playing back to back (or two..three weeks) games. Say TX stomps OK in the final regular season game yet they're still 1 and 2 in the standings...that makes for an unsexy championship game.

So you play out of division games early in the season so there's a long time since the two division winners played and a better chance that the team that lost improved.

----------

Although really, I agree.... ...the best two should just play. Let the rest of the crap just work itself out.
 
Forming two divisions is custom made to allow for the still open possibility of adding two members, making it a much smoother transition. As Mrs. Orlaco implied, divide them up any way you want, just let the best two play for the championship. That makes the issue of expansion irrelevant to what has been agreed upon so far.
 
michaelwalkerbr said:
Forming two divisions is custom made to allow for the still open possibility of adding two members, making it a much smoother transition. As Mrs. Orlaco implied, divide them up any way you want, just let the best two play for the championship. That makes the issue of expansion irrelevant to what has been agreed upon so far.
Click to expand...

Here's why dividing them up anyway you want may not be a good idea.

The Big Ten and ACC have lower sos than the BIG 12, but if you put WVU in a division with just the northern schools here is how the divisional sos looks compared to the weakest divisions in the Big and ACC--not good at all (sagarin ratings from 2015):

BIG 12 north
Ok State 26
WVU 27
Kansas St 59
Iowa St. 67
Kansas 156
Total 67

ACC Coastal Division
Virginia Tech 46
Georgia Tech 54
Miami 49
Virginia 72
North Carolina 16
Pittsburgh 40
Duke 58
Total 47.85714286

Big Ten west
Illinois 71
Iowa 22
Minnesota 64
Nebraska 42
Northwestern 44
Purdue 104
Wisconsin 19
Total 52.28571429

 
LowFatMilk said:
Why does that (only) make sense ? Basically you made it so big rivals (except TX-OK) couldn't meet in the championship game.
Click to expand...


No. If the top two teams make it, which is what is being proposed, they most certainly can. That said, don't you think Oklahoma and Oklahoma State would rather play a guaranteed conference game each year? Ditto Kansas and Kansas State?

Nothing else whatsoever makes any sense. You can't dilute one division by putting Kansas and Iowa State in it. Just won't happen.
 
big_country90 said:
No. If the top two teams make it, which is what is being proposed, they most certainly can. That said, don't you think Oklahoma and Oklahoma State would rather play a guaranteed conference game each year? Ditto Kansas and Kansas State?

Nothing else whatsoever makes any sense. You can't dilute one division by putting Kansas and Iowa State in it. Just won't happen.
Click to expand...

Every team will play every conference team even with two divisions.

The whole reason for two divisions (without expansion) is exactly for the reason I explained. ....which is that the actual top two teams may not meet but there won't be a short term rematch.

To be clear...having two divisions is the Big 12 saying that the top two teams may not play in the title game but at least they know they won't have back to back games between the same two teams. I get the way you're thinking it makes no sense.....but you're misunderstanding the reasoning.
 
They may reseed every year, 1,3,5,7,9 vs 2,4,6,8,10 from the previous years finish.
 
Big 12 doesn't need divisions with 10 teams. Round robin. #1 and #2 in playoff committee rankings in title game. Easy, peasy. Divisions without more members is just a cover.
 
skygusty said:
They may reseed every year, 1,3,5,7,9 vs 2,4,6,8,10 from the previous years finish.
Click to expand...
This too. The divisions won't be static year to year.
Though they could reseed in a different pattern .... for example 1 & 10 in one division and 2&9 in the other.
 
Cuyahoga Falls Eers said:
Big 12 doesn't need divisions with 10 teams. Round robin. #1 and #2 in playoff committee rankings in title game. Easy, peasy. Divisions without more members is just a cover.
Click to expand...

What they need is 12 teams to eliminate the guaranteed rematch and give themselves a better shot at placing a team in the playoff---but they aren't going to do those things and they are going to have divisions.
 
The goal of the reallignment will be to get a Texas-OU title game more often than not. So expect this

North - this virtually will guarantee OU's participation atleast 2 of every 3 years
OU
WVU
ISU
KSU
KU

South - Tougher road, but you gotta figure TCU and Baylor will not be in front of big bro much longer
Texas
Baylor
TCU
Tech
OSU
 
I'd like to see something more like this:

OU
TCU
KSU
WVU
ISU

Baylor
Texas
OSU
Tech
Kansas
 
I like any lineup that guarantees WV with 12 wins a year and a chance to play for the mythical NC. Holgs is the man!
 
Buckaineer said:
With the announcement of a 10 team CCG starting in 2017, and the commissioner stating they'll probably go to two five team divisions--what division do you want WVU in?

There will still be round robin play--but probably other divisional play will all be in the early part of the season--and the division winners would advance to the CCG.

Is it better for something like this for WVU?

WVU
ISU
KU
KSU
OSU

or is it better to be in an all Texas division which several outlets are now proposing?

WVU
Texas
TCU
Baylor
Texas Tech

or maybe something In between like:

WVU
OU
TCU
Kansas State
Iowa State
Click to expand...

Your number 1 won't happen, OU and TexA$$ won't be in same conf.

I like our chances in number 2

Would rather see
WVU
TexA$$
Baylor
KSU
ISU
 
I'm telling you guys, the Texas schools aren't breaking up, and neither are Kansas State/Kansas and Oklahoma State/Oklahoma. The only two that can be moved around is Iowa State and WVU.
 
big_country90 said:
I'm telling you guys, the Texas schools aren't breaking up, and neither are Kansas State/Kansas and Oklahoma State/Oklahoma. The only two that can be moved around is Iowa State and WVU.
Click to expand...

I'm telling you that you don't understand what breaking up really means.
 
Buckaineer said:
Wonder if the divisional play of the first alignment could hurt WVU in playoff selection--although they will still play the other schools, would their division be seen as "weak" compared to say Iowa or Georgia Tech?

WVUs best option is probably whichever division gives them the best shot to win the conference.
Click to expand...
This isn't the ACC where one conference is weaker than the other and teams don't play all the other teams. This is division that maintains Round robin play that maintains strong SOS. If a team in the BIG12 loses just 1 game and wins the CCG game (13th data point) they are most likely in regardless of what division they are in.
 
Buckaineer said:
Here's why dividing them up anyway you want may not be a good idea.

The Big Ten and ACC have lower sos than the BIG 12, but if you put WVU in a division with just the northern schools here is how the divisional sos looks compared to the weakest divisions in the Big and ACC--not good at all (sagarin ratings from 2015):

BIG 12 north
Ok State 26
WVU 27
Kansas St 59
Iowa St. 67
Kansas 156
Total 67

ACC Coastal Division
Virginia Tech 46
Georgia Tech 54
Miami 49
Virginia 72
North Carolina 16
Pittsburgh 40
Duke 58
Total 47.85714286

Big Ten west
Illinois 71
Iowa 22
Minnesota 64
Nebraska 42
Northwestern 44
Purdue 104
Wisconsin 19
Total 52.28571429
Click to expand...
That is crazy, this isn't the BIG or ACC where Iowa skates in on a pathetic schedule. This is BIG12 division where Round Robin is still in play. In RR play the criteria will be overall SOS not which division they are in. A program might make the CCG with 2 losses because they week conference, but with 2 losses any team is eliminated anyway.
 
Last edited:
big_country90 said:
I'm telling you guys, the Texas schools aren't breaking up, and neither are Kansas State/Kansas and Oklahoma State/Oklahoma. The only two that can be moved around is Iowa State and WVU.
Click to expand...
If expansion does not occur It does not freaking matter, it is still a Round Robin
 
I like the idea of reseeding every year but is it a scheduling nightmare? As I understand it, they want the cross division games (5) to occur in the first half of the season, and the intra division games (4) in the latter half. You wouldn't be able to set next years schedule until December. I suppose you just hold those slots open but you wouldn't know if they were going to be home or away. Would that be a problem? What if all 4 of your intra-division games are away games and some other school has 4 home games? Not a level playing field.
 
Last edited:
skygusty said:
I like the idea of reseeding every year but is it a scheduling nightmare? As I understand it, they want the cross division games (5) to occur in the first half of the season, and the intra division games (4) in the latter half. You wouldn't be able to set next years schedule until December. I suppose you just hold those slots open but you wouldn't know if they were going to be home or away. Would that be a problem? What if all 4 of your intra-division games are away games and some other school has 4 home games? Not a level playing field.
Click to expand...

This is what ISU AD discussed in a pod cast this past week and I love it if they split into division. It gives the BIG12 more control of how they perceived teams will finish in the coming years.
 
Mountaineer Steve said:
This is what ISU AD discussed in a pod cast this past week and I love it if they split into division. It gives the BIG12 more control of how they perceived teams will finish in the coming years.
Click to expand...

Problematic on many fronts. First--how do you know a team good last year will be good the next?

There is really little benefit to even breaking into divisions at all, let alone trying to guess who will be great year to year and then trying to toss together schedules at the last minute.

Obviously the membership can't even make a decision on what divisions to have.
 
Mountaineer Steve said:
If expansion does not occur It does not freaking matter, it is still a Round Robin
Click to expand...

It matters in terms of winning a conference championship.

If WVUs "division" means beating all of UT, Tech, Baylor and TCU every year plus a certain number of other division foes- that is a pretty tough task.
 
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