Today in Western Civilization

[atlkvb]

OK, let me turn this around on you. Why are you quick to go after and attack Democrats while your Republican buddies on here post negative, racist pictures and statements about others? And before you ask, just go and look at some of the stuff that's being posted........

I've called it out (and an end to it) on both sides MountaineerWV. You haven't read my posts when I have. Disagreement is fine, but the name calling and nastiness is not only unncessary, it is childish and I don't care who does it. I will say the vast majority of it is on your side, especially when you can't refute opposition to your positions. The guys on the Right who do it, are simply returning fire.

 

[MountaineerWV]

I've called it out (and an end to it) on both sides MountaineerWV. You haven't read my posts when I have, Disagreement is fine, but the name calling and nastiness is not only unncessasry, it is childish and I don't care who does it. I will says the vast majority of it is on your side, especially when you can't refute opposition to your positions. The guys on the Right who do it, are simply returning fire.

And that says it all........so your belief is that your Right-Wing friends on here are just doing what they do in "retaliation"? Wow........disappointing.........

And have you not seen some of the things posted on here? About racial genocide of white people? About mixing? Come on, man..........[pfftt]

 

[Brushy Bill]

And that says it all........so your belief is that your Right-Wing friends on here are just doing what they do in "retaliation"? Wow........disappointing.........

And have you not seen some of the things posted on here? About racial genocide of white people? About mixing? Come on, man..........[pfftt]

There are plenty of places where you would feel more at home, might I suggest China or North Korea, we don't need you around here anymore.

 

[MountaineerWV]

There are plenty of places where you would feel more at home, might I suggest China or North Korea, we don't need you around here anymore.

I'm sure Atl will take care of you, since he says he doesn't care if it's right or left wing........


And second, be careful......just like your lie that you were Billy the Kid was exposed soon you will as well......

 

[Brushy Bill]

I'm sure Atl will take care of you, since he says he doesn't care if it's right or left wing........


And second, be careful......just like your lie that you were Billy the Kid was exposed soon you will as well......

You don't deserve the comforts of Western Civilization, just like IQ89, Moe, Keyser and the like. You've not done a damn thing to further civilization and are actively seeking to destroy it so GTFO.

 

[dave]

Watch now as yet another white liberal pretends to speak for black folk.

 

[Brushy Bill]

 

[MountaineerWV]

You don't deserve the comforts of Western Civilization, just like IQ89, Moe, Keyser and the like. You've not done a damn thing to further civilization and are actively seeking to destroy it so GTFO.

Nah....I think I'll stay. But try to keep your lies to a minimum......

 

[MountaineerWV]

Here's your hero.....

 

[Brushy Bill]

Nah....I think I'll stay. But try to keep your lies to a minimum......

Where did I lie? What thread, what post?

 

[atlkvb]

And that says it all........so your belief is that your Right-Wing friends on here are just doing what they do in "retaliation"? Wow........disappointing.........

And have you not seen some of the things posted on here? About racial genocide of white people? About mixing? Come on, man..........[pfftt]

I've seen it MountaineerWV, and I've also seen the disgusting names called out by those on the Left simply because someone disagreed. The stuff you've mentioned on the Right to me has been more statements or mocking of Leftist positions on race, immigration etc.

I don't think to my knowledge anyone on the Right has actually accused anyone on the Left of either doing those things or called anyone by name for being a racist. You can correct me if I'm wrong about that. However many on the Left have accused one of us of being racist or having racist beliefs...often directly!

However here's what frustrates me, and you are part of it.

We got into a discussion recently about Margaret Sanger, and her racists beliefs. I asked you why the Left never calls her out, or never speaks out about the vast majority of Black babies that are slaughtered only for the convenience of the Mother at taxpayer expense? I've asked you (or anyone on the Left) to explain your silence over that genocide, while you accuse Christians and others of being "intolerant" over the issue of choice Abortions based on race.

Silence.

No one on the Left will give me an answer why Sanger is not condemned by the Pro Choice crowd, or why the Left does not call out this obvious immorality?

I'd just prefer honesty in our debates MountaineerWV. Anyone can call names, but being honest about what you believe, or honestly stating your opinions and then defending them is what I'd prefer.

It frustrates me when I ask legitimate questions to honestly try and understand how you folks on the Left defend what you believe in and you either refuse to answer or call names for my asking.

This happened recently with American Fabius and Moe, who I both asked specific questions to about their positions regarding taxes and neither one of them even bothered to offer a well thought out response.

So I get that we disagree, and I'm OK with that. I'm asking for honest disagreement instead of name calling. Defend what you really believe instead of hiding behind it or pretending you don't believe what you advocate for and be honest in your opinions without calling names or getting upset just because someone disagrees with you.

 

[atlkvb]

Here's your hero.....

Now see you're doing the very thing you are calling me out on for not condemning when it's done on my side.
How does this elevate the debate? Who believes what that racist nut job believes?

 

[dave]

And that says it all........so your belief is that your Right-Wing friends on here are just doing what they do in "retaliation"? Wow........disappointing.........

And have you not seen some of the things posted on here? About racial genocide of white people? About mixing? Come on, man..........[pfftt]

It is retaliation. You acted uo and the good guys sit you down and set you straight so go back to your room.

 

[atlkvb]

l

I suggested nothing like that. I suggested that SOME Christians DID support slavery.....SOME did NOT want to abolish slavery........and so on. You cannot say "Christians wanted to end slavery", because that is insinuating that ALL did......which is false

Correct. But that's not what you posted. When I asked countryroads89 why he wasn't giving Christians ANY credit for ending slavery as much as he was suggesting they were responsible for it you chimed in with the Quakers being the primary movers behind the abolitionist movement. I guess you forgot they too were Christians?

The Quakers were the first......and you speak of all the links you provide, well here's one.......http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/first-american-abolition-society-founded-in-philadelphia.......you are welcome!

That's fine MouintaineerWV, but again I responded to correct your assertions that it was only the Quakers who were the primary driving force behind the abolitionist movement. They had a role, but they were by no means the only ones, and the vast majority of the rest were indeed also Christians.

. Why do I call out Christians? Well, kind of why I call out whites for some of our stupid things. Or why I call out males for their stupid things......because that's what I am. I'm a white, male, Christian-American.......and when Christians do some of the same things that any other religious group does, why should I only be critical of the other group?

OK fair enough. So why didn't you correct countryroads89 in that thread when he suggested Christians were mainly responsible for holding slaves? That's why I challenged him with the question about the abolitionist movement. Your response to that was to downplay the role Christians had in calling for an end to slavery. Again you mentioned the Quakers, didn't you know they were also Christian?

Perhaps, just perhaps, if our society would focus on what WE are doing wrong instead of finding blame in everyone else we would solve a lot more problems......

I agree with you here. That's why I've often asked why the Left doesn't condemn race select abortions? If you're Christian, and I accept that you say you are, why are you silent on that immorality? Please don't tell me it's because you "don't want to impose your morality" onto others. You just stated society needs to focus on what we are doing wrong and I assume you do agree as a Christian that is wrong?

Where is your condemnation of it, or you calling out the Left for its silence over it?

 

[Brushy Bill]

When men still ruled their own fate...

 

[MountaineerWV]

I've seen it MountaineerWV, and I've also seen the disgusting names called out by those on the Left simply because someone disagreed. The stuff you've mentioned on the Right to me has been more statements or mocking of Leftist positions on race, immigration etc.

I don't think to my knowledge anyone on the Right has actually accused anyone on the Left of either doing those things or called anyone by name for being a racist. You can correct me if I'm wrong about that. However many on the Left have accused one of us of being racist or having racist beliefs...often directly!

However here's what frustrates me, and you are part of it.

We got into a discussion recently about Margaret Sanger, and her racists beliefs. I asked you why the Left never calls her out, or never speaks out about the vast majority of Black babies that are slaughtered only for the convenience of the Mother at taxpayer expense? I've asked you (or anyone on the Left) to explain your silence over that genocide, while you accuse Christians and others of being "intolerant" over the issue of choice Abortions based on race.

Silence.

No one on the Left will give me an answer why Sanger is not condemned by the Pro Choice crowd, or why the Left does not call out this obvious immorality?

I'd just prefer honesty in our debates MountaineerWV. Anyone can call names, but being honest about what you believe, or honestly stating your opinions and then defending them is what I'd prefer.

It frustrates me when I ask legitimate questions to honestly try and understand how you folks on the Left defend what you believe in and you either refuse to answer or call names for my asking.

This happened recently with American Fabius and Moe, who I both asked specific questions to about their positions regarding taxes and neither one of them even bothered to offer a well thought out response.

So I get that we disagree, and I'm OK with that. I'm asking for honest disagreement instead of name calling. Defend what you really believe instead of hiding behind it or pretending you don't believe what you advocate for and be honest in your opinions without calling names or getting upset just because someone disagrees with you.

Here you go, again! Right on cue. Putting things out there that you say I did, when I did NOT! As for the abortion thing, I told you in that thread my beliefs. I told you what I was against. I explained it. And you said "Ok". But now, you claim I was "silent"? Wow....typical though.

Name calling? Well, if you claim that your "buddies" have the right to retaliate then I see that I have that right as well......since you have stated that I do not participate in the "name-calling" in a previous thread......

 

[MountaineerWV]

l

Correct. But that's not what you posted. When I asked countryroads89 why he wasn't giving Christians ANY credit for ending slavery as much as he was suggesting they were responsible for it you chimed in with the Quakers being the primary movers behind the abolitionist movement. I guess you forgot they too were Christians?

Ummmm....well....you see......if you understand that Quakers were Christians (as I do), and I gave Quakers credit, then that means I'm giving Christians credit........just giving a specific sect of Christians who stood out and went ABOVE AND BEYOND most everyone else.........

 

[MountaineerWV]

l


OK fair enough. So why didn't you correct countryroads89 in that thread when he suggested Christians were mainly responsible for holding slaves? That's why I challenged him with the question about the abolitionist movement. Your response to that was to downplay the role Christians had in calling for an end to slavery. Again you mentioned the Quakers, didn't you know they were also Christian?

Because, well, he's right. Since you can make the suggestion and claim that "Christians were against slavery" (lumping them in as a whole) then can he NOT say the same about "Christians owning slaves", since technically many did (in the South)????? Yep, he can.....using the same rules as you are......

 

[atlkvb]

As for the abortion thing, I told you in that thread my beliefs. I told you what I was against. I explained it. And you said "Ok"

What was your response to my question to you about why the Left doesn't condemn Margaret Sanger or race select abortions?

 

[atlkvb]

Because, well, he's right. Since you can make the suggestion and claim that "Christians were against slavery" (lumping them in as a whole) then can he NOT say the same about "Christians owning slaves", since technically many did (in the South)????? Yep, he can.....using the same rules as you are......

He never gave Christians any credit for ending slavery MountaieerWV, only for owning them.

 

[MountaineerWV]

l


I agree with you here. That's why I've often asked why the Left doesn't condemn race select abortions? If you're Christian, and I accept that you say you are, why are you silent on that immorality? Please don't tell me it's because you "don't want to impose your morality" onto others. You just stated society needs to focus on what we are doing wrong and I assume you do agree as a Christian that is wrong?

Where is your condemnation of it, or you calling out the Left for its silence over it?

You say that since I'm a Christian, and I am not a supporter of abortion, I should protest against the LAW of the land???? Well what say you about those protests on the police shootings????

 

[MountaineerWV]

He never gave Christians any credit for ending slavery MountaieerWV, only for owning them.

And you are giving Christians (all of them) credit for ending it by lumping them in together without sharing the blame of spreading and maintaining slavery throughout the south.....and yes, there were Christian slave owners.......Two wrongs don't make a right........

You keep wanting to diminish the actions of the Quaker society for their stance against slavery....during times when NOBODY would dare attempt something, they did! By your statements of "other Christians" did this or that is diminishing it. Facts are facts....and if it weren't for the Quakers, the Underground Railroad would not have existed.......

 

[MountaineerWV]

What was your response to my question to you about why the Left doesn't condemn Margaret Sanger or race select abortions?

I responded the way I knew how.....that I had never even heard of the woman until that thread......true story. I had no opinion, because I was not truly educated about her. And the fact that I don't consider myself to be a "leftist" like you keep claiming. I am a Democrat. But I've voted Republican many times. I support ideas from both sides. I even share some Socialist ideas...(ex. free college education) big shock! But I guess I should only think one way..........right?

 

[atlkvb]

Ummmm....well....you see......if you understand that Quakers were Christians (as I do), and I gave Quakers credit, then that means I'm giving Christians credit........just giving a specific sect of Christians who stood out and went ABOVE AND BEYOND most everyone else.........

But you didn't respond that the Quakers were Christian. You responded that they were the leaders of the abolitionist movement after I had posted Christians were the ones who called for its ending. You singled them out correctly, but you did so to refute my claim of Christians being the ones behind the abolitionist movement.

You did not say they were Christian, you separated them out only as Quakers (go back and read the thread) and I reminded you that they too were Christians.

 

[atlkvb]

I responded the way I knew how.....that I had never even heard of the woman until that thread......true story. I had no opinion, because I was not truly educated about her.

Fair enough. What's your position on it now that you've been educated about her and her beliefs about race and the Left's admiration of her (Hillary said she was inspiring)?

 

[MountaineerWV]

But you didn't respond that the Quakers were Christian. You responded that they were the leaders of the abolitionist movement after I had posted Christians were the ones who called for its ending. You singled them out correctly, but you did so to refute my claim of Christians being the ones behind the abolitionist movement.

You did not say they were Christian, you separated them out only as Quakers (go back and read the thread) and I reminded you that they too were Christians.

Why should I respond to the fact they were Christian.......are we STUPID???? Do we NOT know that already???? I mean, come on.....that's splitting hairs. I doubt there is one single person on this message board that did not already know they were Christian......and me saying it won't change the purpose of my comments.

 

[atlkvb]

And you are giving Christians (all of them) credit for ending it by lumping them in together without sharing the blame of spreading and maintaining slavery throughout the south.....and yes, there were Christian slave owners.......Two wrongs don't make a right........

You keep wanting to diminish the actions of the Quaker society for their stance against slavery....during times when NOBODY would dare attempt something, they did! By your statements of "other Christians" did this or that is diminishing it. Facts are facts....and if it weren't for the Quakers, the Underground Railroad would not have existed.......

I am not denying Christians owned slaves. I am stating Christians (Quakers included) called for ending it. Countryroads89 only blamed Christians for it, and you only gave Quakers credit for trying to stop it.

Both of you are wrong.

 

[MountaineerWV]

Fair enough. What's your position on it now that you've been educated about her and her beliefs about race and the Left's admiration of her (Hillary said she was inspiring)?

Eugenics was a very dangerous pseudo-science back in the day.......and many people fell for it. I feel the same for her as I do the people who want to block or ban Muslims from entering our nation and continue to spread the rhetoric of Islamophobia. They are taking a small percentage of the population and lumping them together with all (Sanger was one of a few that believed in Eugenics, but people want to make it bigger than it was/is).

 

[MountaineerWV]

I am not denying Christians owned slaves. I am stating Christians (Quakers included) called for ending it. Countryroads89 only blamed Christians for it, and you only gave Quakers credit for trying to stop it.

Both of you are wrong.

No, I didn't. I gave Quakers credit for DOING SOMETHING and having the balls to stand up against the system and DO SOMETHING......as stated previously in my comments, they were the FIRST to do something........that was why I singled them out, you see? Obviously, you don't......

 

[atlkvb]

Why should I respond to the fact they were Christian.......are we STUPID???? Do we NOT know that already???? I mean, come on.....that's splitting hairs. I doubt there is one single person on this message board that did not already know they were Christian......and me saying it won't change the purpose of my comments.

If you knew that then why didn't YOU say it? It's not splitting hairs, it's trying to correct what you used to justify your position after the fact. Again, go back and read the thread. Why did you respond with Quakers were first after I said Christians were the ones who called for an end to slavery?

If Quakers were indeed Christians (they were) why didn't you just agree with me and say something like "you're right, and they were Quakers"?

Instead you posted, "it was the Quakers who first organized opposition to slavery". Anyone reading that thread who did not know Quakers were also Christians would think you were calling them out as something other than Christian, and if you weren't doing that, then why didn't you also add them to the list of Christians who were indeed calling for an end to slavery?

In fact they were not the only ones, and many others before them had called for it to end. They did organize a mass movement against it, but if you read the articles I linked you to you also should know they were not alone or first.

 

[atlkvb]

Eugenics was a very dangerous pseudo-science back in the day.......and many people fell for it. I feel the same for her as I do the people who want to block or ban Muslims from entering our nation and continue to spread the rhetoric of Islamophobia. They are taking a small percentage of the population and lumping them together with all (Sanger was one of a few that believed in Eugenics, but people want to make it bigger than it was/is).

Planned Parenthood celebrates her and what she advocated to this day MountaineerWV. They do not of course call attention to her racist beliefs, but they don't condemn her for them either. As I said, Hillary called her inspiring.

 

[MountaineerWV]

If you knew that then why didn't YOU say it? It's not splitting hairs, it's trying to correct what you used to justify your position after the fact. Again, go back and read the thread. Why did you respond with Quakers were first after I said Christians were the ones who called for an end to slavery?

If Quakers were indeed Christians (they were) why didn't you just agree with me and say something like "you're right, and they were Quakers?

Instead you posted, "it was the Quakers who first organized opposition to slavery". Anyone reading that thread who did not know Quakers were also Christians would think you were calling them out as something other than Christian, and if you weren't doing that, then why didn't you also add them to the list of Christians who were indeed calling for an end to slavery?

In fact they were not the only ones, and many others before them had called for it to end. They did organize a mass movement against it, but if you read the articles I linked you to you also should know they were not alone or first.

Oh GOOD LORD! Because, you are trying to lump ALL Christians in to that one category. Not ALL Christians wanted to end it, but ALL Quakers did!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm giving them their props. For example, if Kyrie Irving scores 50 points, and the other guards for Cleveland score only 10 points.......do we say "Cleveland guards score 60 points" or do we say "Kyrie scored 50 points"????? Sure, they ALL accounted for those 60 points, but he stood out above the rest. It is that simple......

 

[MountaineerWV]

Planned Parenthood celebrates her and what she advocated to this day MountaineerWV. They do not of course call attention to her racist beliefs, but they don't condemn her for them either. As I said, Hillary called her inspiring.

So, who the **** cares? I sure as hell don't. Democrats say stupid things, so do Republicans. Who said this about Kim Jong Un.....

“At a very young age, he was able to assume power. A lot of people, I'm sure, tried to take that power away, whether it was his uncle or anybody else. And he was able to do it. So obviously, he's a pretty smart cookie”

 

[atlkvb]

No, I didn't. I gave Quakers credit for DOING SOMETHING and having the balls to stand up against the system and DO SOMETHING......as stated previously in my comments, they were the FIRST to do something........that was why I singled them out, you see? Obviously, you don't......

Then why did you exclude the good work other Christians were also doing to end it? Quakers weren't alone, and they weren't the first. They were among the most organized true, and among some of the loudest opponents by their numbers, but you didn't give anyone else credit who was Christian calling for its end...only Quakers and you didn't even call them Christian...only Quakers.

 

[MountaineerWV]

[QUOTE="atlkvb, post: 1569449, member: 2032"

Instead you posted, "it was the Quakers who first organized opposition to slavery". Anyone reading that thread who did not know Quakers were also Christians would think you were calling them out as something other than Christian, and if you weren't doing that, then why didn't you also add them to the list of Christians who were indeed calling for an end to slavery?

In fact they were not the only ones, and many others before them had called for it to end. They did organize a mass movement against it, but if you read the articles I linked you to you also should know they were not alone or first.[/QUOTE]


I said that because.....THEY WERE THE FIRST!!!!

 

[atlkvb]

Oh GOOD LORD! Because, you are trying to lump ALL Christians in to that one category. Not ALL Christians wanted to end it, but ALL Quakers did!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm giving them their props. For example, if Kyrie Irving scores 50 points, and the other guards for Cleveland score only 10 points.......do we say "Cleveland guards score 60 points" or do we say "Kyrie scored 50 points"????? Sure, they ALL accounted for those 60 points, but he stood out above the rest. It is that simple......

Yes true. But in your analogy you did not include the Quakers as part of the Christian team. You called them Kyrie Irving without the Cavaliers. Don't you see THAT?

 

[MountaineerWV]

Then why did exclude the good work other Christians were also doing to end it? Quakers weren't along, and they weren't the first. they among the most organized true, and among some of the loudest opponents by their numbers, but you didn't give anyone else credit who was Christian calling for its end...only Quakers and you didn't even call them Christian...only Quakers.

I don't have to call them Christians.........because that is COMMON KNOWLEDGE!

And yes, they WERE the first!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1688_Germantown_Quaker_Petition_Against_Slavery

"The 1688 Germantown Quaker Petition Against Slavery was the first protest against African-American slavery made by a religious body in the English colonies. It was drafted by Francis Daniel Pastorius and signed by him and three other Quakers living in Germantown, Pennsylvania (now part of Philadelphia) on behalf of the Germantown Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends. It was forwarded to the monthly, quarterly, and yearly meetings without any action being taken on it. According to John Greenleaf Whittier, the original document was discovered in 1844 by the Philadelphia antiquarian Nathan Kite and published in The Friend (Vol. XVIII, No. 16)."

 

[MountaineerWV]

Yes true. But in your analogy you did not include the Quakers as part of the Cavaliers team. You called them Kyrie Irving without the Cavaliers. Don't you see THAT?

No, because, as stated.....it is COMMON KNOWLEDGE WHAT TEAM HE PLAYS FOR!!!!!!

 

[atlkvb]

[QUOTE="atlkvb, post: 1569449, member: 2032"

Instead you posted, "it was the Quakers who first organized opposition to slavery". Anyone reading that thread who did not know Quakers were also Christians would think you were calling them out as something other than Christian, and if you weren't doing that, then why didn't you also add them to the list of Christians who were indeed calling for an end to slavery?

In fact they were not the only ones, and many others before them had called for it to end. They did organize a mass movement against it, but if you read the articles I linked you to you also should know they were not alone or first.

I said that because.....THEY WERE THE FIRST!!!![/QUOTE]

Did you read what I linked you to the other day? If you did, you know that is not correct.

 

[atlkvb]

I don't have to call them Christians.........because that is COMMON KNOWLEDGE!

And yes, they WERE the first!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1688_Germantown_Quaker_Petition_Against_Slavery

Not all people know Quakers were Christian. You say you did, but you didn't point that out when you first mentioned them. I believe you that you say you knew they were Christian, but in the context of my statement that Christians were the ones who called for an end to slavery, why did you suggest them as an alternative?