Stewart Mandel on Dana Holgorsen's "hot seat"

[Vernon]

Link: http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...rns-south-carolina-ohio-state-oklahoma-060116

How many games does Dana Holgorsen have to win to keep his job? If he does survive, are the Mountaineers primed for a big two-year run in his system with Will Grier taking the reins at QB?

-- Chris Marshall (Charleston, WV)

--------------------

You're obviously closer to the ground than I am, but I don't get the sense he's in any grave danger. He's coming off an eight-win season and a nice bowl victory. He's now three years removed from the one bad year (4-8 in 2013) that engendered hot-seat talk to begin with. Furthermore, he did that with a very young offense. There's a lot to be excited about with the return of QB Skyler Howard, WR Shelton Gibson and others. If the Mountaineers take a big step back and go 5-7, then, yeah, he may have a problem, but I don't see any sort of magic number beyond that.

It will be interesting to see Grier when he comes in, but who knows what to expect from him. He's only played a half-season of college football and will have sat for nearly two years by the time he next takes the field. There's a lot of behind-the-scenes development to take place.

In general, though, there's an opportunity presenting itself for West Virginia and other current middle-of-the-pack Big 12 teams. Baylor has in large part been holding them back the last several years. The Bears lost just five conference games in three seasons. If you assume the program is going to take a step back, then who in the Big 12 is going to fill that void? Could be Oklahoma State, could be Texas Tech, could be Kansas State ... or could be West Virginia.

 

[steeleer]

Link: http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...rns-south-carolina-ohio-state-oklahoma-060116

How many games does Dana Holgorsen have to win to keep his job? If he does survive, are the Mountaineers primed for a big two-year run in his system with Will Grier taking the reins at QB?

-- Chris Marshall (Charleston, WV)

--------------------

You're obviously closer to the ground than I am, but I don't get the sense he's in any grave danger. He's coming off an eight-win season and a nice bowl victory. He's now three years removed from the one bad year (4-8 in 2013) that engendered hot-seat talk to begin with. Furthermore, he did that with a very young offense. There's a lot to be excited about with the return of QB Skyler Howard, WR Shelton Gibson and others. If the Mountaineers take a big step back and go 5-7, then, yeah, he may have a problem, but I don't see any sort of magic number beyond that.

It will be interesting to see Grier when he comes in, but who knows what to expect from him. He's only played a half-season of college football and will have sat for nearly two years by the time he next takes the field. There's a lot of behind-the-scenes development to take place.

In general, though, there's an opportunity presenting itself for West Virginia and other current middle-of-the-pack Big 12 teams. Baylor has in large part been holding them back the last several years. The Bears lost just five conference games in three seasons. If you assume the program is going to take a step back, then who in the Big 12 is going to fill that void? Could be Oklahoma State, could be Texas Tech, could be Kansas State ... or could be West Virginia.

Interesting.

I will say this. If WVU only gets 7 wins and Dana keeps his job, then I think Grier will have saved his job. The potential of a true NFL potential QB in this system might be enough to roll the dice one last year.

 

[eerdoc]

Interesting.

I will say this. If WVU only gets 7 wins and Dana keeps his job, then I think Grier will have saved his job. The potential of a true NFL potential QB in this system might be enough to roll the dice one last year.

If he wins 9 or more I see HIM looking for a job to get away from management that is cooler than luke-warm toward him. I see him leaving no matter the record.Too bad for WVU. The staff looks solid. Recruiting is greatly improved from the Stewart years. I saw a bright future until Lyons made his mistakes.Now--not so much.

 

[GoWVU]

I saw a bright future until Lyons made his mistakes.Now--not so much.

Exactly what "mistakes" has he made?

 

[Rootmaster]

Recruiting is greatly improved from the Stewart years.

So, the players that won the Orange Bowl and started the next season 5-0 were not as good as the players that DH has recruited? You have to be kidding or just started paying attention to Mountaineer football. And if he has done a better job then where the h... are the results? Unreal.

 

[CAJUNEER]

So, the players that won the Orange Bowl and started the next season 5-0 were not as good as the players that DH has recruited? You have to be kidding or just started paying attention to Mountaineer football. And if he has done a better job then where the h... are the results? Unreal.

I liked Stewart but the recruiting behind that first class got progressively worse.

 

[Rootmaster]

Again...just how then has DH done better? When has he had a better class? It is just BS to say he is a better recruiter. Keeps patching holes with junior college players who have to play right away to help. He is a poooooooooooor recruiter.

 

[CAJUNEER]

Again...just how then has DH done better? When has he had a better class? It is just BS to say he is a better recruiter. Keeps patching holes with junior college players who have to play right away to help. He is a poooooooooooor recruiter.

I don't personally rate classes but those who do suggest DH's recruiting has been better than BS's. They seem to have stuck around a little better as well.

 

[dogeered_again]

Exactly what "mistakes" has he made?

I could be wrong about this but, I see Lyons as a somewhat "awkward", uncomfortable in his own skin kind'a guy. He hasn't been supportive of Holgs and he should have been regardless of the state of the football success. His worst mistake may have been alienating the coach in a passive/aggressive posture that would make anyone uncomfortable. I don't really like Lyons, but then... I could be wrong.

 

[5150]

The problem is Dana was brought in to win at a level and to this point that has not taken place.

 

[VaultHunter]

Again...just how then has DH done better? When has he had a better class? It is just BS to say he is a better recruiter. Keeps patching holes with junior college players who have to play right away to help. He is a poooooooooooor recruiter.

Would you say recruiting and NFL development is worse than it has ever been at WVU?

 

[Rootmaster]

Some of those players came from BS btw.

Would you say recruiting and NFL development is worse than it has ever been at WVU?

Let me explain for you.

1. If NFL development came from a highly successful program then that would be an achievement. Can't exactly call the WVU program highly successful under DH.
2. Since WVU has had all this talent then why haven't the results been there (and please no need more money excuses!)?
3. Where are all the four year program RBs and QBs?

And stop trying to divert the discussion...once again. LOL

 

[There goes the Major]

If he wins 9 or more I see HIM looking for a job to get away from management that is cooler than luke-warm toward him. I see him leaving no matter the record.Too bad for WVU. The staff looks solid. Recruiting is greatly improved from the Stewart years. I saw a bright future until Lyons made his mistakes.Now--not so much.

He'll only leave on his own free wheel if he gets more money somewhere else. And if we want him back, where is he going to get more money than us? Houston, IF it opens? Probably not more $$$. Unless he pulls off a couple of 2 or less loss seasons, I bet we can keep him as long as we want.

 

[coalcountry52]

Again...just how then has DH done better? When has he had a better class? It is just BS to say he is a better recruiter. Keeps patching holes with junior college players who have to play right away to help. He is a poooooooooooor recruiter.

If you didn't see the lack of depth we had in 2012 compared to the depth we now have, you're blinded by your bias.

 

[BobbyBoucheer]

He'll only leave on his own free wheel if he gets more money somewhere else. And if we want him back, where is he going to get more money than us? Houston, IF it opens? Probably not more $$$. Unless he pulls off a couple of 2 or less loss seasons, I bet we can keep him as long as we want.

whats a free wheel?

 

[BobbyBoucheer]

If you didn't see the lack of depth we had in 2012 compared to the depth we now have, you're blinded by your bias.

His auspicious start in the Big 12 had way more to do with hiring his buddy to be a DC and hiring the defensive staff all piece meal and shit.

Roberts at CB-----Never was a coach, out of coaching

DeForest at DC------Never was a DC and was passed over that time and time again at OSU

Slaughter at DL----Out of coaching and had substance abuse problems along with other problems as well.

Holgs was allowed to put together a shitty defensive staff and it amazes me to this day how Ollie gets a pass for allowing it to happen and paying these jack wagons a lot of money to be inept.

When casteel and company left, Ollie should have taken more control of who was brought in on the defensive side.

 

[fprio]

I don't look at it as a win loss thing, but in how hard the team plays.

 

[GoWVU]

If you didn't see the lack of depth we had in 2012 compared to the depth we now have, you're blinded by your bias.

Funny how the only people blinded by bias are on the opposite side of an issue from one's own self, isn't it?

Good thing we have better depth now, though. I'm really looking forward to the decade when it starts showing up in the conference standings.

 

[Mountain Man]

His auspicious start in the Big 12 had way more to do with hiring his buddy to be a DC and hiring the defensive staff all piece meal and shit.

Roberts at CB-----Never was a coach, out of coaching

DeForest at DC------Never was a DC and was passed over that time and time again at OSU

Slaughter at DL----Out of coaching and had substance abuse problems along with other problems as well.

Holgs was allowed to put together a shitty defensive staff and it amazes me to this day how Ollie gets a pass for allowing it to happen and paying these jack wagons a lot of money to be inept.

When casteel and company left, Ollie should have taken more control of who was brought in on the defensive side.

I do agree with you Bobby. However to give Dana credit he did make the necessary adjustments to get rid of Roberts, Demote Defo back to Safty's/SpecialTeams, after that disastrous 2012 D year. It took him a while to bring someone competent such as Gibson as DC. During the Holgs era @ WVU in the XII since 2012 when we joined there are at least 2 to 3 losses per year we had no business losing. Holgs needs to find ways to win these close ones.

Stew OTOH made no adjustments to his OC Mullin and the OL coach Johnson during his 3 yr tenure. The whole purpose of hiring Stew was to keep Rods O and he lets Mullin cut the gonads off of it.

 

[ColoradoMountaineer]

A Competent head coach doesn't need His athletic director to tell him to hire an offensive coordinator.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers]

A couple of observations:

Justice Learned Hand said: "A prejudiced person is someone whose biases differ from yours." Still true all these decades later. We disagree, then the other person is prejudiced or biased. If we agree, they aren't biased. They are all OPINIONS. Take them or leave them. They ARE based on the mindset of the writer or speaker, just as yours and mine are. Sports is the one area where it's almost impossible to be objective. Is a 1,000-yard runner more valuable than a 1,000-yard passer or a 7-interceptions cornerback?

As for Mandel's assessment of Dana's situation, I think he's pretty much on the money. If Dana is 7-5, he isn't going to be fired. Just create more angry pissing matches among the fans. Hell, he survived 4-8. And, as pointed out elsewhere, HALF the Big 12 teams win 8 or more games, so it's not like it takes a Houdini or Nick Saban to do it. WVU fans, including me, just won't be happy with 8-4 or worse ad infinitum, even in the Big 12.

All of us, including me, would LOVE for WVU to go 12-0 and win the national playoffs. But unless you're talking the rifle team, that probably isn't going to happen at WVU. More than a century of history hasn't seen it, so it's not likely. But occasional good seasons, like 1988 and 1993 and 2007, are possible. That's what WVU fans would love to see from Dana. I know he was 10-3 in the Big East years, but so many have denigrated that because it WAS the Big East football. 10-3 is outstanding in any conference.

Now, let's maul Missouri, yank the toilet handle on Youngstown and bury BYU! Then do better than 5-4 in the Big 12! And make Sept. 3 not be so far away!

 

[Rootmaster]

Why do people keep bringing up the 10-3 record in DH's first year? Good grief, he had BS's recruits.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers]

Why do people keep bringing up the 10-3 record in DH's first year? Good grief, he had BS's recruits.

I try not to ignore the parts I don't like as well as the parts I do like. It's only fair to include a person's body of work. Yes, they were Bill Stewart's recruits and it was the Big East. But 10-3 would be foolish to ignore. Just like 4-8 would be unwise to ignore. It's all part of Dana's body of work at WVU. Let's hope for more 10-3 seasons and no more 4-8 seasons for my alma mater.

 

[OlegeezEER]

A couple of observations:

Justice Learned Hand said: "A prejudiced person is someone whose biases differ from yours." Still true all these decades later. We disagree, then the other person is prejudiced or biased. If we agree, they aren't biased. They are all OPINIONS. Take them or leave them. They ARE based on the mindset of the writer or speaker, just as yours and mine are. Sports is the one area where it's almost impossible to be objective. Is a 1,000-yard runner more valuable than a 1,000-yard passer or a 7-interceptions cornerback?

As for Mandel's assessment of Dana's situation, I think he's pretty much on the money. If Dana is 7-5, he isn't going to be fired. Just create more angry pissing matches among the fans. Hell, he survived 4-8. And, as pointed out elsewhere, HALF the Big 12 teams win 8 or more games, so it's not like it takes a Houdini or Nick Saban to do it. WVU fans, including me, just won't be happy with 8-4 or worse ad infinitum, even in the Big 12.

All of us, including me, would LOVE for WVU to go 12-0 and win the national playoffs. But unless you're talking the rifle team, that probably isn't going to happen at WVU. More than a century of history hasn't seen it, so it's not likely. But occasional good seasons, like 1988 and 1993 and 2007, are possible. That's what WVU fans would love to see from Dana. I know he was 10-3 in the Big East years, but so many have denigrated that because it WAS the Big East football. 10-3 is outstanding in any conference.

Now, let's maul Missouri, yank the toilet handle on Youngstown and bury BYU! Then do better than 5-4 in the Big 12! And make Sept. 3 not be so far away!

I have read many opinions from writers concerning the current coaching situation. Some of the recent articles I have read seem to think coach Dana needs to make a splash this year whatever they mean by splash Im not sure. I have seen some stating that coach Dana was retained due to the amount of money it would have cost to buy him out after last season. Since I was not sitting in the room when AD Lyons and coach Dana sat down Im not going to speculate on what was and wasn't said. The problems i have with Mandel's response is he brings up the 4-8 season and its true that Dana is still the coach but it would have cost a hell of allot of money to buy him out at that time. Secondly if the 2 sides where unable to come to an agreement after last years season why would another 8-5 season change that? This writer probably gets 1000's of questions daily from his readers why would you choose this particular one and start out by saying your probably closure to the ground than me on this one. I thought it was a pretty yellow response on his part. I hope Coach Dana can get over the hump this year and we can put this issue to rest im not sure what the magic number is but you would have to think it has to be better than 8-5 based on the way the negotiations ended last season

 

[Rootmaster]

I hope DH gets the Mountaineers to the next level. I hope 10-3 becomes the floor not the ceiling. I hope he turns WVU football into the next Alabama and makes more money than the lottery along the way. However, since he started getting his own recruits...record from year two...the guy is 25-25 and that includes OCC cupcakes annually. He has a losing record in the Big 12-2=10. DH's body of work is littered with bad game judgement and less than stellar results.

 

[OlegeezEER]

I could be wrong about this but, I see Lyons as a somewhat "awkward", uncomfortable in his own skin kind'a guy. He hasn't been supportive of Holgs and he should have been regardless of the state of the football success. His worst mistake may have been alienating the coach in a passive/aggressive posture that would make anyone uncomfortable. I don't really like Lyons, but then... I could be wrong.

I think its to early to speculate on how well a job the AD is doing. I think Lyons maybe could have choose his words a little more carefully when he was asked about the contract negotiations. At the end of the day Business is Business. There probably is very few if any AD's out there that would have given Coach Dana a meaningful extension based on his results up to now. Some AD's might have outright Fired Him. In the end Coach Dana has been given the opportunity to coach the 2016 season and we as fans should allow this to play out before passing judgement on the coach or AD. If coach Dana is able to meet whatever the current AD's expectations are for the football program in 2016 then there is plenty of time for the 2 sides to come together and make things right. Until Coach Dana starts getting HC job offers from other schools he needs the WVU job and if he's meeting the minimal expectations of the AD then Lyons needs a coach. Before RR and Beilen left Wvu everyone was of the mindset that a coach would stay forever now everyone thinks the coach is leaving town asap. Dana will be coach as long as he meets the minimal expectations of the ad or until something better comes a long. The man is making 3 million a year and at that pay rate there aren't that many programs out there that he could possibly go to that would be considered a step up. He will probably have to string together a couple of 9+ wins season until a better offer comes along. When RR was a hot commodity during the 2005-2007 he had a system that was new and innovative and allot of people wanted in on it. Mike Leach was running the air raid at that time as well and what Dana would Bring is nothing new and allot of AD's would have allot of choices as to who to hire if they wanted the air raid implemented at their school. In the end I hope things work out for coach Dana either way.

 

[Rootmaster]

I haven't seen anything not to like about Lyons. Man is just doing his job dealing with DH and his Red Bull sized ego.

 

[Orlaco]

I haven't seen anything not to like about Lyons. Man is just doing his job dealing with DH and his Red Bull sized ego.

A typical Red Bull is 8.4 ounces.

Fairly small.

 

[5150]

A couple of observations:

Justice Learned Hand said: "A prejudiced person is someone whose biases differ from yours." Still true all these decades later. We disagree, then the other person is prejudiced or biased. If we agree, they aren't biased. They are all OPINIONS. Take them or leave them. They ARE based on the mindset of the writer or speaker, just as yours and mine are. Sports is the one area where it's almost impossible to be objective. Is a 1,000-yard runner more valuable than a 1,000-yard passer or a 7-interceptions cornerback?

As for Mandel's assessment of Dana's situation, I think he's pretty much on the money. If Dana is 7-5, he isn't going to be fired. Just create more angry pissing matches among the fans. Hell, he survived 4-8. And, as pointed out elsewhere, HALF the Big 12 teams win 8 or more games, so it's not like it takes a Houdini or Nick Saban to do it. WVU fans, including me, just won't be happy with 8-4 or worse ad infinitum, even in the Big 12.

All of us, including me, would LOVE for WVU to go 12-0 and win the national playoffs. But unless you're talking the rifle team, that probably isn't going to happen at WVU. More than a century of history hasn't seen it, so it's not likely. But occasional good seasons, like 1988 and 1993 and 2007, are possible. That's what WVU fans would love to see from Dana. I know he was 10-3 in the Big East years, but so many have denigrated that because it WAS the Big East football. 10-3 is outstanding in any conference.

Now, let's maul Missouri, yank the toilet handle on Youngstown and bury BYU! Then do better than 5-4 in the Big 12! And make Sept. 3 not be so far away!

Everything I see and hear 7-5 will not keep his job.

 

[5150]

His auspicious start in the Big 12 had way more to do with hiring his buddy to be a DC and hiring the defensive staff all piece meal and shit.

Roberts at CB-----Never was a coach, out of coaching

DeForest at DC------Never was a DC and was passed over that time and time again at OSU

Slaughter at DL----Out of coaching and had substance abuse problems along with other problems as well.

Holgs was allowed to put together a shitty defensive staff and it amazes me to this day how Ollie gets a pass for allowing it to happen and paying these jack wagons a lot of money to be inept.

When casteel and company left, Ollie should have taken more control of who was brought in on the defensive side.

When Dana said we were de-emphasizing defense I was shocked at how our fan base laughed it off. When Baylor put up 70 points on us and we still won everyone was again laughing.

Blaming Stew for his lack of depth was and continues to be the only way for Pro Ollie/Dana crowd and Anti Stew people to justify the poor coaching we have had over the last several years.

Remember, the coach from Clemson said in his interviews for the NC game this year he discussed how they were surprised at much more speed and depth WVU had when compared to them. So they hit the recruiting trail to improve.

 

[5150]

If you didn't see the lack of depth we had in 2012 compared to the depth we now have, you're blinded by your bias.

Ask Dabo and he will give you a different answer

 

[BobbyBoucheer]

When Dana said we were de-emphasizing defense I was shocked at how our fan base laughed it off. When Baylor put up 70 points on us and we still won everyone was again laughing.

Blaming Stew for his lack of depth was and continues to be the only way for Pro Ollie/Dana crowd and Anti Stew people to justify the poor coaching we have had over the last several years.

Remember, the coach from Clemson said in his interviews for the NC game this year he discussed how they were surprised at much more speed and depth WVU had when compared to them. So they hit the recruiting trail to improve.

What Dana did with his defensive hires and schemes when we entered the Big 12 was almost criminal. However, that does not exclude the fact that the cupboard was very bare due to Stews recruiting.

 

[5150]

What Dana did with his defensive hires and schemes when we entered the Big 12 was almost criminal. However, that does not exclude the fact that the cupboard was very bare due to Stews recruiting.

During the run up to the NC game this year Dabo Sweeney was quoted as saying "we were shocked to find out during the Orange Bowl with WVU that they had more team speed and depth then we did so we made changes to our we recruited"

 

[GoWVU]

When Dana said we were de-emphasizing defense I was shocked at how our fan base laughed it off. When Baylor put up 70 points on us and we still won everyone was again laughing.

When did Holgorsen say that? If he did, it doesn't seem like something this fanbase would be laughing off. I recall quite a few posters being relieved, yet also concerned that our first Big 12 game ended in a 70-63 win...along with the usual gang of "you're never satisfied with anything" dismissals from the everything-is-fine crowd.

Blaming Stew for his lack of depth was and continues to be the only way for Pro Ollie/Dana crowd and Anti Stew people to justify the poor coaching we have had over the last several years.

Remember, the coach from Clemson said in his interviews for the NC game this year he discussed how they were surprised at much more speed and depth WVU had when compared to them. So they hit the recruiting trail to improve.

I do remember reading that our superior speed was cited as a major factor in the 2012 Orange Bowl win, but are you sure about the concurrent depth claim? It would be helpful to see a link addressing that specific point if you have one. Thanks, 5150.

 

[HurdyGurdyEer]

The only real source of talk of Dana being on the hot seat has been chat boards and a few sports writers who, based on that chat board talk, have written things the last couple of years about Dana being on the hot seat.

In other words ..... the Dana being on the hot seat thing has been nothing more than old fashioned gossip.

 

[rhdink]

I have no contacts within the athletic department and with that said from what I have read on this board and other places I have gotten the impression that the decision to renew Dana will not be based entirely on his won loss record. In addition to assessing the growth of the program through won-loss record I believe the University will also look to see how much the coach has grown and developed as a leader. In this respect, I believe the ball is in Dana's court. Personally, I prefer to remain optimistic and hope for a good season all the way around.

 

[GoWVU]

The only real source of talk of Dana being on the hot seat has been chat boards and a few sports writers who, based on that chat board talk, have written things the last couple of years about Dana being on the hot seat.

In other words ..... the Dana being on the hot seat thing has been nothing more than old fashioned gossip.

Nope, there's nothing to it at all. Any coach who had posted a 26-25 record since joining the Big 12 would be as secure as a Supreme Court justice.

 

[Woody O'Hara]

Let's hope for more 10-3 seasons and no more 4-8 seasons for my alma mater.

Hope is not a strategy!

 

[5150]

Nope, there's nothing to it at all. Any coach who had posted a 26-25 record since joining the Big 12 would be as secure as a Supreme Court justice.

with a ton of NFL talent on this team.

 

[5150]

When did Holgorsen say that? If he did, it doesn't seem like something this fanbase would be laughing off. I recall quite a few posters being relieved, yet also concerned that our first Big 12 game ended in a 70-63 win...along with the usual gang of "you're never satisfied with anything" dismissals from the everything-is-fine crowd.I do remember reading that our superior speed was cited as a major factor in the 2012 Orange Bowl win, but are you sure about the concurrent depth claim? It would be helpful to see a link addressing that specific point if you have one. Thanks, 5150.

It was on a video interview, discussed on this board after said. I guess you missed that discussion. The thing that came out of the interview was how Dabo was acting like the CEO leader of the program and doing what was needed to improve. I NEVER see Dana looking at the program and discussing what needs to improve for us to get to the next level.