Pipe Dream or Reality

[WVUALLEN]

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...usc-oregon-washington-ucla-big-12/4964313002/

Could the Big 12 poach Arizona State, USC, Oregon, Washington, UCLA, Arizona from Pac-12?

Before Colorado and Utah joined the Pac-10 to form the Pac-12, there was talk of the Pac-12 poaching Oklahoma, Texas and some other Big 12 schools to form a super-conference in what could have been known as the Pac-16.

Well, what if the Big 12 returned the favor and poached some teams from the Pac-12?

The Athletic's Andy Staples discussed the topic on his latest podcast.

He brought up the idea of USC, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State, Oregon and Washington joining the Big 12 (which actually only has 10 teams).

"The Big 12 is not as poorly run as people outside of Big 12 country think," Staples said on the Andy Staples Show podcast. "The Big 12 is actually pretty well run and it has a pretty good set of TV deals, not as good as the SEC and the Big Ten, but pretty good and then the bigger you are the more you make off those third-tier rights. Texas has the Longhorn Network, Oklahoma has its deal with Fox. Even Kansas and Iowa State have pretty good deals, so, the Big 12 is just sitting there with 10 schools and a really good TV deal and they have a TV deal coming up. The year before the Big 12's TV deal expires, the Pac-12's TV deal expires.

 

[WVUALLEN]

https://fishduck.com/2020/03/demise-of-the-pac-12-could-bring-rise-of-the-big16/

Demise of the Pac-12 Could Bring Rise of the Big16

A recent article in The Athletic by Andy Staples outlines why the time is now for the Big 12 to raid the Pac-12 to create the Big 16.

My initial reaction to the thought of the Pac-12 disbanding was utter shock. The traditionalist in me hates this. I want to preserve the conference, west coast pride, the alliance to the Rose-Bowl, the Civil War, and other rivalry games.

But after careful consideration, would it really be that bad?

It was just ten years ago when new Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott made a power-play to raid the Big 12 of six of its members to create the Pac-16. Oregon would now be playing Texas and Oklahoma (the crown jewels of the maneuver) regularly as conference foes. The league would arguably have been the most imposing in the country, the king of college football.

Of course, it didn’t happen, Larry Scott fumbled it away as he didn’t have a contingent plan for Texas insisting on having the Longhorn Network. We fast forward to today and the Pac-12 has been transformed from the predator to the prey.

But the thing is, as the prey, as the loser, after we all simultaneously take one gigantic swallow of pride, we get the poor man’s version of essentially the same thing we lost out on a decade ago. And along with it, the strength, the cash, and the prosperity of being in the most powerful conference in college football.

Not a bad consolation prize.

The Big 16 Alignment
Per Staples, the obvious brand name picks from the Pac-12 would be USC, UCLA, Oregon, and Washington, while the not so obvious are Arizona and Arizona State (over Cal and Stanford). I believe he’s correct in his assertion.

The Big 16 would logically breakdown into East and West divisions. I mean, no way would poor West Virginia be expected to fly to the west coast multiple times a year. I would also presume that the eastern division would like to keep the Texas and Oklahoma schools together.

West: Washington, Oregon, USC, UCLA, Arizona, ASU, Kansas, Kansas State.

East: Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Iowa State, West Virginia.

Where Would the Uninvited Go?: The Pac-12’s realignment losers would probably join a turbo-charged Mountain West or band together to start a new conference while stealing away the best of the Mountain West (Boise State, San Diego State, etc.).

In which it would be right there with the AAC as the best non-Power-4 Conference (yes, Power-4). With the inevitability of an expanded College Football Playoff to eight teams, which would guarantee a bid from a non-Power-4 conference, it could seemingly provide an easier path to the playoff then remaining in a Power conference.

Ask yourself this: Would it be easier for Oregon State to qualify for the CFP by winning or securing an at-large in the Big-16? Or by being the highest-rated qualifying non-Power-4 school?

Seeing as how they haven’t won an outright conference championship since 1956 (or partial since 2000), I say the non-Power route.

Not playing WSU, Cal, Stanford: This would be the major pain point. (With Utah and Colorado being such new additions to the Pac-12, we won’t consider them a big deal.) If the Civil War were to continue every year it would leave the Ducks with only two remaining non-conference foes. Presumably one of them would be home game against a cream-puff, and the other against a Power-4 team.

This would leave little wiggle room to slide these traditional rivals in, on even an occasional basis.

The Rose Bowl: Shouldn’t be a worry. I can’t imagine the Rose Bowl not aligning itself with the new Big 16 in place of the old Pac-12.

A Funny Thought: Poor Colorado. They jumped ship from the Big 12 ten years ago and now could be on the outside looking in regards to being in a Power conference. Well, we all know what they say about paybacks.

 

[WVUALLEN]

https://247sports.com/college/usc/Article/Lifeline-to-the-Pac-12-from-the-Big-12-129549028/

Lifeline to the Pac-12 . . . from the Big 12?

Has it really come to this? The once high and mighty Pac-12, the conference that almost ended the Big 12 when it extended bids to Texas and Oklahoma back in 2011, now may need a lifeline of its own?

From the Big 12?

It looks like that could be the case if a plan hatched by a pair of current and past Big 12 presidents has any currency as revealed by the Bay Area News Group's Jon Wilner.

But how can this be? How could a conference that barely survived less than five years ago, a conference without a championship football game until this past season, a conference whose home towns are Ames, Iowa; Lubbock and Waco, Tex.; Lawrence and Manhattan (The Little Apple), Kan.; Morgantown, W. Va. and Norman and Stillwater, Okla. be in position to be offering the urban, coastal elite Pac-12.

Only Austin (No. 39) and Ft. Worth, Tex. (No. 5 along with Dallas) are among the top 39 TV markets in America. Give them Kansas City (No. 33) and that's three of the top 39.

Compare that to the Pac-12. LA is the No. 2 national TV market, San Francisco-Oakland is No. 8, Phoenix No. 11, Seattle-Tacoma No. 12, Denver No. 17, Sacramento No. 20, Portland No. 22, San Diego No. 29 and Salt Lake City No. 30.

Advantage Pac-12 with 10 TV markets ranked above the No. 2 Big 12 market. And yet, it's the Big 12 throwing a lifeline to the Pac-12. Here's how.

As reported by Wilner, former Kansas State president Jon Wefald and current West Virginia president Gordon Gee have come up with a plan to bring the two conferences together, a plan that will help both but primarily their own league in its upward mobility.

Like the way a team like Texas is amping up its California recruiting. There's blood in the water. The Pac-12, led by USC, is in distress. Maybe we can throw them a life preserver while moving into their territory, the Big 12 seems to be saying.

The network-less Big 12 has already passed the Pac-12 for the No. 4 spot in the Power Five conferences so it's not exactly clear why they want to help other than to expand their market from the Midlands to the Coast.

Here's their idea. They'd like to see the two leagues come up with an exclusive shared scheduling agreement so that all nonconference football games by all the teams in both leagues would be against teams from the other leagues. No more non-Power-Five games, and except for the ones with long-running relationships like USC-Notre Dame and Stanford-Notre Dame that would be grandfathered in, no other leagues.

Then the two conferences' champions would meet in a championship game that would almost certainly set the winner up for a spot in the College Football Playoffs.

“My first idea was to figure out a strategy to convince Arizona and Arizona State to become the 11th and 12th members of the Big 12,” Wefald told Wilner. “I rather quickly dismissed that idea.” But then he had another and came up with “A Proposal to Create A Strategic Alliance Between The Big 12 And The Pac-12.”

Wilner quotes Wefald: “This alliance of 22 universities from the Great Plains to the West Coast would provide the vital content of big-time football games that dovetail nicely with the new developing platforms of information.”

It's an idea that while not official has apparently been talked about at the highest levels of the Big 12 -- the presidents and commissioner. But it's not an official proposal. Not yet, anyway.

But to think it's coming from a league that now pays its members more than $36 million a year -- an 18 percent increase -- that becomes more than $40 million when the third-tier media rights of each are counted in since Big 12 schools are allowed to keep those but not the Pac-12, which distributes just over $31 million per school.

And despite those increases and the fact that the Big 12 has passed the Pac-12 into the third place among Power Five leagues, Big 12 Commissioner Bob Bowlsby's annual salary of $3.05 million pales in comparison to the annual $4.8 million of Pac-12 commissioner/network boss Larry Scott.

Now looking at this from a USC point of view, we're not sure that games against Iowa State and Kansas would be any more attractive than Fresno State and BYU for this season. Actiually, they wouldn't. And for a program like USC that's played everybody everywhere over the years, it would be a come-down. USC doesn't need a league agreement to play an all-Power-Five schedule. It always has. Always will, we'd guess.

However anything beats the Pac-12 championship game that has yet to help anyone that we can recall.

But for the Big 12 teams that would get to come to the West Coast and play and recruit, it's not a bad deal. Another not-so-good deal from USC's point of view: The plan would alternate championship games between the Rose Bowl and AT&T Stadium in Texas.

Guess the renovated Coliseum didn't make the cut while UCLA's home field did. Although we're guessing by the time this could ever be worked out, the new Rams stadium or the Raiders home in Las Vegas would be the way they'd go.

And yet there's no way this can work as proposed. The math doesn't work. For all the teams that absolutely have to have seven home games, this would be a no-go deal on both ends. If it happens, it would only be in a limited fashion with some cooperative scheduling. If it could get more visits from Oklahoma and Texas, that would be a good thing.

Maybe the way to go here is for an agreement for a season-opening game like the ones in Arlington and Atlanta hosted in the new stadiums in LA and Las Vegas between the two conferences.

But for a USC program, playing and acting like USC, this wouldn't be that much of a help. USC should dominate the Pac-12 if only it would. And should use that dominance to get to the College Football Playoffs most years. That's a fact. USC football done right doesn't leave much room for a serious challenge in the Pac-12.

What's interesting here -- and sad -- is how it's the bumbling Pac-12 that has lost any sort of ability to lead. Any sort of idea that it has to lead -- for itself and for college football. The League of Champions looks more like the League of Chumps. At least in the sport that matters.

Pac-12 football has so many problems, from officiating to competitiveness to protecting its home turf in recruiting to fan interest that it has no time to worry about innovating when it can barely compete.

There was a day when USC would step in and lead. When USC could step in and lead.

But here we are with a USC program that is having trouble fixing itself much less its own league . . . and much less challenging the nation.

So we see proposals coming from places where USC once represented the pinnacle of college football -- even to the likes of Oklahoma and Texas.

And now they're getting a helping hand extended from the Big 12?

Not good. Not good at all.

 

[WVUALLEN]

The Point After: Despite all the rumors, USC should not (yet) leave the Pac-12

https://dailytrojan.com/2020/03/04/...e-rumors-usc-should-not-yet-leave-the-pac-12/

By JIMMY GOODMAN
March 4, 2020


A revolution is coming to college football. It will come slowly, painfully and over the course of many generations of struggle and injustice, but a storm of revolt is set to hit the shores of the college football world.

This wave of rebellion will come in a variety of forms: name, image, likeness rights, renewed television deals and potential alterations to the College Football Playoff. Above all, however, it will be the newest round of conference realignment that will set the tone for all the other issues in the sport.

Few teams sit in as interesting a position as USC.

It is no secret that the Trojans and the Pac-12 have been on distinctly poor terms in recent years. Starting at the calamity that is the Pac-12 Networks and stretching down to the industry’s most notoriously incompetent referees, the conference’s football outlook is most optimistically regarded as bottoming out. For many others, however, the Pac-12’s gridiron brand is only set to deteriorate further despite advances by programs like Oregon and Washington.

All of this is to say that the conference’s premier football brand, USC, is going to at least consider all available options with regards to conference alignment. Athletic director Mike Bohn implied as much when he went on a USCFootball.com podcast and said “everything’s on the table” with regards to USC’s future. While Bohn would go on to clarify his comments as they related more specifically to future TV deals in the Pac-12, this purported slip of the tongue gives a solid insight into the growing friction and distance between the conference and its elite member programs. With hundreds of millions of dollars and a century-long legacy of dominance hanging in the balance, anything is possible.

On Wednesday, Andy Staples of The Athletic proposed a growingly popular idea that USC (as well as UCLA, Oregon, Washington, Arizona and Arizona State) should bolt for the Big 12 at the next inevitable stage of conference realignments in coming seasons. Certainly, Staples provides a solid argument as he details the history of conference rivalries and competition for programs, as well as the opportunities that the Big 12 offers in terms of financially competitive rewards for elite programs. In many ways, the Big 12 represents the caliber of a conference that could potentially compete with the Big Ten and SEC, whose grip on the college football (and basketball) worlds are tightening annually. USC is a football school and, without a doubt, where the team goes, the school and athletics often follow.

All that said, the greenest pastures for USC’s athletic department as a whole still clearly reside in the Pac-12.

For as much as the Pac-12 is being nationally embarrassed in the “money” sports of football and basketball, it is still a conference that prides itself on its Olympic prowess. Not only does the conference dominate in sports such as track and field and gymnastics, but sports such as water polo nearly completely comprise Pac-12 teams. Considering USC’s obvious dedication to excellence in Olympic sports — regardless of the struggles in Galen Center or the Coliseum — continuing to compete at the highest level in these sports is a major consideration for USC regarding any conference movement. While Big 12 schools such as Texas have put together solid programs in Olympic sports, they still lag considerably behind the “Conference of Champions.”

In addition to the likely protest of the balance of sports programs on campus, USC would also be adding considerable amounts of travel to the schedules of each of these teams. In joining a conference that stretches as far east as West Virginia, travel expenses would rise astronomically as compared to a conference where most play is concentrated on the Western seaboard.

Lastly, the Big 12 is a complete catastrophe academically compared to the Pac-12. Considering the interest of President Carol Folt and others to maintain USC’s sharp upward academic trajectory and remain competitive with fellow elite California universities, a move to the Big 12 would be a legitimate downgrade for the school as an academic brand. Simply put, a conference that hosts one school ranked in the top 50 in the nation compared to one that has four would clearly be seen by a university such as USC as an obvious downgrade.

Talk of USC leaving the Pac-12 will not slow down anytime soon. From prognostications like Staples’ that claim the Trojans could join the Big 12 to suggestions that USC could follow Notre Dame into football independence, this time of revolution will certainly aim to keep programs across the country on their toes.

Despite the appeal of a drastic change, however, USC is still best served to stay the course amid the storm.

Jimmy Goodman is a senior writing about USC sports. His column, “The Point After,” runs every other Thursday.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

Whatever puts more money in the pocket of WVU's Athletic Department

 

[Darth_VadEER]

These articles are all pre-covid, so lots have changed.

No idea what happens but the current conference model doesnt seem like it can last. Something will happen.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

PAC 12 is in an even weaker position financially

Going to.find our in the next 2 years a lot about what happens.

 

[Rootmaster]

PAC 12 is in an even weaker position financially

Going to.find our in the next 2 years a lot about what happens.

Lol x 10. Did you seriously write that last sentence? This should go into the doofus HOF. Did you ever figure out who is buried in Grant's tomb?

 

[mountaineermaniac34]

I have been watching and keeping an eye on this. Yes the articles are pre-covid and the PAC 12 has been a train wreck. COVID has to be a nail in the coffin.

 

[1duluth1]

IMO, there was a pre-Covid19 world... and will be a post-Covid19 world.

Pre-Covid: Merge to super conferences. Travel doesn't matter. Expanding TV deals more than pay for extra travel (lost student-athlete sleep, be damned). Include larger population markets in your conference.

Post-Covid: Less TV money and aversion to air travel. The number of football programs shrink, teams play closer to home, TV contracts shrink.

 

[WVUALLEN]

The Big 12, for all of the jokes of the past decade, has stabilized under the guidance of commissioner Bob Bowlsby and with the support of flagship members Texas and OU. Next step would be to actually win a playoff game instead of being embarrassed every year.

The PAC-12 with the failure of it's conference network emblematic of the problems encountered by commissioner Larry Scott, is quite unstable.

Another fact: Both the Big 12 and Pac-12 have media rights deals that expire around the same time, the Pac-12’s after the 2023-24 school year and the Big 12’s after 24-25.

One more: The Big 12 is padding its bank account at a much higher rate than the Pac-12. While the Big 12 heralded an expanded deal with ESPN last year at a reported benefit of $40 million, the Pac-12 lost a reported 12 million in 2018.

The Big Ten and SEC are practically printing money. Since it takes revenue and resources to compete for Power 5 championships, especially in football, the Big Ten and SEC are well-positioned eternally.

The Big 12 is hanging in there with a potential $40 million-per-school payout coming as soon as fiscal year 2019, compared to a reported $45 million for SEC schools and $55 million for the Big Ten. The Pac-12’s 2019 distribution should come in at $33 million.

Adding schools in southern California and the Pacific Northwest to a conference with West Virginia? It’s 2,694 miles from Morgantown, W.V., to Eugene, Ore.

You’re going to ask West Virginia AD Shane Lyons to send his non-revenue-producing teams playing baseball, soccer and tennis to Oregon? When he’s still getting used to the idea of sending those teams to Baylor?

Money beats geography every time. It beats sentimentality, too, which is why those in the Big 12 who still miss OU-Nebraska football and KU-Missouri basketball would just as soon Riley and Bill Self get paid a zillion dollars to compete for national championships.

What’s good for Riley and Self is good for the Big 12, since OU football and KU basketball are two of the most powerful brands in the conference.

USC football and UCLA basketball are pretty powerful brands, too. I tend to think the Big 12 wouldn’t mind waving them around the league. I know Big 12 ADs wouldn’t mind waving them in front of ticket buyers who are less willing to pay to see Iowa State, TCU, Texas Tech and Kansas State every year.

I’m pretty sure the Big 12 wouldn’t mind waving them at ESPN and Fox executives at the bargaining table.

Or maybe the Big 12 likes its brand just fine. Maybe OU and Texas like their brands towering over the eight other schools and wouldn’t be so crazy about USC, UCLA and Oregon butting in.

Maybe when it gets down to it, USC, UCLA and Oregon will figure their brands are better off closer to home in a more-confined Pac-12, revenue concerns and all.

Maybe nothing will happen as these media rights deal expire. Or maybe what shapes the next round of realignment will be name, image and likeness, not revenue, geography and brand.

~

• By Guerin Emig Tulsa World

• Mar 6, 2020

My own personal opinion is that it will never happen.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

PAC 12 is in an even weaker position financially

Going to.find our in the next 2 years a lot about what happens.

So is every other conference if they dont play, and if they do its without fans...so either way everyone is weaker.

 

[MichiganHerd]

I have been watching and keeping an eye on this. Yes the articles are pre-covid and the PAC 12 has been a train wreck. COVID has to be a nail in the coffin.

@WVUALLEN is this perhaps profile #37?

 

[Darth_VadEER]

IMO, there was a pre-Covid19 world... and will be a post-Covid19 world.

Pre-Covid: Merge to super conferences. Travel doesn't matter. Expanding TV deals more than pay for extra travel (lost student-athlete sleep, be damned). Include larger population markets in your conference.

Post-Covid: Less TV money and aversion to air travel. The number of football programs shrink, teams play closer to home, TV contracts shrink.

Teams will travel by air regardless, unless it's a close game like WVU/Pitt.

They aren't taking long bus rides.

They charter. I dont see the aversion to air travel for them..perhaps olympics would be different.

If they dont find a way to keep students on campus, they are in for bigger problems than football. Parents wont be enrolling their kids at campuses they cant go to when there are cheaper options.

An empty football stadium is bad, but empty dorms are worse....Im hoping for a total collapse. If anything deserves it, its higher education.

 

[AZeer]

Where does WVU improve itself in this scenario?

 

[Rootmaster]

No way does wvu fit in to a way westward conference. No way to spin it. Hope wvu starts talks with acc or sec....or the aac becomes a so called power conference.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

No way does wvu fit in to a way westward conference. No way to spin it. Hope wvu starts talks with acc or sec....or the aac becomes a so called power conference.

I think the future is just 1 big conference...with regional divisions/conferences.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

Need more practical thinking.

There is what you want to happen and what could happen
Two different things.

Small pond mindset will be for schools who aren't playing at the highest level.

CFB is going two directions. At the highest level to bigger conferences and at the G5 level most likely to more regional conferences

A lot of this has to do with money.


#1 Thought Pattern for WVU fans should be $$$$. How does the athletic department bring in more money to compete at a higher level.

 

[Rootmaster]

Breaking News....dopey anti white...neo racist...Antifa sucking TVZ has discovered that big time college football is all about the money. Sure glad doofus explained that to us. What a basement dweller lol.