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Manchin and Saban

WVUMPA98 said:
That's a political problem not a legal one....

Nowhere did I say I was fine with taking dirt from the Russians... I just said it is not illegal....

Voters decide political problems not the courts...
Click to expand...


Which is also why we should NOT have used national security tools (which have now lost the trust of half this country) to pursue a problem that was not illegal in the first place. FBI failed to see the forest from the trees even if we give them a non-partisan benefit of the doubt.

After the political conventions all Presidential candidates receive classified briefings. The FBI should have told DJT himself (and it could have been himself only) they believed the Russians had infiltrated his campaign based on classified sources. That's where the investigation should have ended. Everything else is a political problem not a legal one.
 
michaelwalkerbr said:
Several people went to jail for election fraud. Courts would not take the case because they said no one complaining had legal standing. But several state legislators heard sworn testimony about absurd irregularities they witnessed. The election was never going to be overturned, but I will never believe Uncle Joe had more votes than any candidate in history by hiding in his basement. I could not help but laugh at all the mail in ballots recounted that had no crease caused by an envelope.
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Who went to jail for election fraud?

I just saw last week 3 Rs were charged at the Villages in FL.

Another R in Colorado I think too.

Biden won because most people can see that the former guy is a wanna be tyrant. The entire top level of the DOJ threatened to resign enmasse if he would have made Jeffrey Clark the AG.

Even his own counsel was going to resign.

The former guy has no respect for our democracy and would tear up the constitution in a second.

The scary thing is how loyal you people are to him. You either refuse to see how dangerous he is or you like that.

Either way it's very very scary for our democracy.

How can you not see that???
 
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DvlDog4WVU said:
Should be a marker for you telling how wildly unpopular your policies are with average patriotic Americans who understand basic economics and civics. Some would try to learn from it. Your party’s response? More communism.
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Please read the definition of communism. You obviously don't understand what it means.
 
WVUMPA98 said:
Which is also why we should NOT have used national security tools (which have now lost the trust of half this country) to pursue a problem that was not illegal in the first place. FBI failed to see the forest from the trees even if we give them a non-partisan benefit of the doubt.

After the political conventions all Presidential candidates receive classified briefings. The FBI should have told DJT himself (and it could have been himself only) they believed the Russians had infiltrated his campaign based on classified sources. That's where the investigation should have ended. Everything else is a political problem not a legal one.
Click to expand...
The best part? The FBI is having to go to industry to institute process controls in order to keep them from violating the FISC process again. Shelling out millions to un fvck them because the subverted the processes to try and take him down. That to me is the most glaring evidence, aside from the Horowitz and Durham evidence. They’re actually having to hire 3rd party to fix them.
 
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WVUgrad90 said:
Based on the rate at which you post, you must be part of the 3.5% bullsh#t number.
Click to expand...
You should look at my history before you say something so wrong.

There are people on this thread that have posted more in the last year than I've posted in the last 20.
 
lostinthelight said:
Who went to jail for election fraud?

I just saw last week 3 Rs were charged at the Villages in FL.

Another R in Colorado I think too.

Biden won because most people can see that the former guy is a wanna be tyrant. The entire top level of the DOJ threatened to resign enmasse if he would have made Jeffrey Clark the AG.

Even his own counsel was going to resign.

The former guy has no respect for our democracy and would tear up the constitution in a second.

The scary thing is how loyal you people are to him. You either refuse to see how dangerous he is or you like that.

Either way it's very very scary for our democracy.

How can you not see that???
Click to expand...
Because he’s less of a threat to the country than you all are.
 
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lostinthelight said:
Wow Angry Airport is fired up!

You have a habit of always bringing up race. Maybe it's just coincidence.

By the way...your girl was "executed" while she tried to enter the chamber that lawmakers were fleeing from. She was a terrorist trying to stop the functioning of our government. You just keep supporting her...you'll go down in history as a real hero.

And why are you so obsessed with anal sex? You must think about that a lot.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Click to expand...
How liberals are made.
 
lostinthelight said:
Who went to jail for election fraud?

I just saw last week 3 Rs were charged at the Villages in FL.

Another R in Colorado I think too.

Biden won because most people can see that the former guy is a wanna be tyrant. The entire top level of the DOJ threatened to resign enmasse if he would have made Jeffrey Clark the AG.

Even his own counsel was going to resign.

The former guy has no respect for our democracy and would tear up the constitution in a second.

The scary thing is how loyal you people are to him. You either refuse to see how dangerous he is or you like that.

Either way it's very very scary for our democracy.

How can you not see that???
Click to expand...


You have convinced me. Let's audit every state and verify all the voter rolls. Don't want those Republicans trying anymore shady stuff.
 
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BTW... Had I been counsel to Gen Flynn I would have told him to tell FBI to **** themselves with the Logan Act threats. He ultimately lied because FBI threatened to charge him with violating an act nobody has ever been charged with (been on the books since 1807) and SCOTUS has opined is likely UNCONSTITUTIONAL (in another matter so they didn't RULE on the Logan Act). Courts have taken the view, like McCain-Feingold, private citizens have a Free Speech right to represent Foreign powers if they so choose to. I'd have told FBI...yep I violated the Logan Act go ahead and charge me with it.....
 
lostinthelight said:
Lol...well...tried to stay in power illegally so its kind of a big deal.

Big deal to some people at least. Not to everyone for some reason?
Click to expand...
He didn't try to stay in power illegally. Contrary to present liberal thought, requesting for an investigation into an election is not illegal. Especially when an old, lying, forgetful bag of bones gets over 10M more votes than the first black president in our history and statistical markers show something just wasn't right. What makes it even more hilarious is Bidens quote of Stalin the other day........."who counts the vote is more important than who votes". This middle and far left in this country is batshit crazy. You keep talking insurrection (without a gun being drawn except by the capital police)....its a pretty lame and week argument but the Democratic (Socialist/Communist) Party is exceptional at the propaganda.
 
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lostinthelight said:
You should look at my history before you say something so wrong.

There are people on this thread that have posted more in the last year than I've posted in the last 20.
Click to expand...
You have kept this thread going through 4 pages essentially single handed. So you either have the afternoon off, you're stealing from your employer or you're part of the 3.5%
 
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"Although talk of voter fraud may be increasing because of the stakes in the 2020 election, The Heritage Foundation’s election fraud database has been around for four years. With the addition of our latest batch of cases, we are up to 1,285 proven instances of voter fraud."

Let's go Brandon!
 
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DvlDog4WVU said:
The best part? The FBI is having to go to industry to institute process controls in order to keep them from violating the FISC process again. Shelling out millions to un fvck them because the subverted the processes to try and take him down. That to me is the most glaring evidence, aside from the Horowitz and Durham evidence. They’re actually having to hire 3rd party to fix them.
Click to expand...


So I have some direct involvement in various FISA process. I'll be careful with my words here... The process is fine. It's a court, it's composed of judges who serve concurrently as US District Court judges and who come from R and D Presidents. John Roberts appoints these US district judges concurrent to the FISC.

The court has advisors.... The reason most FISA applications are approved is the crap ones NEVER make it to court. They are pre cleared with the advisor for each judge and if they don't have a chance they never get to the court.

Prior to Congress creating the FISC the Supreme Court had found it Constitutional for the President executing his powers as Commander in Chief to conduct national security surveillance of Americans and foreign persons both domestic and abroad WITHOUT any court at all. This was recognized legal doctrine from 1787 to 1978. Congress and the Carter Administration created the FISC as a self regulatory act... No court required it be created.

In the Carter Page matter (the FISA was on Page not Trump) one FBI attorney lied because exculpatory info provided by CIA would have likely cause the Court to terminate an existing FISA warrant (remember it was a renewal.. not the initial FISA that was the issue at hand). That exculpatory info was that Page had at one point cooperated with CIA. FISA require "probable cause" that a subject of the warrant is an Agent of a Foreign Power. Being a cooperative contact of the CIA generally means you are not an Agent of a Foreign Power absent conclusive info otherwise.

Why have a secret court? Well the example I give is if we had a source next to Putin himself that said a named individual was a spy for Russia we very well would be stupid to compromise that source in order to get a warrant for surveillance operations in open court. Thus the need for FISA.
 
DvlDog4WVU said:
Because he’s less of a threat to the country than you all are.
Click to expand...
Oh come on.

Because I want to have universal Healthcare like every other industrialized country does? Also because it will save us a ton of money.

Because I think the wealthy should pay their fair share of taxes?

Because I'm willing to talk about the truth about our country's history?

You guys work so hard to convince yourselves that the left is evil just to justify the terrible actions of the right.

You end up saying ridiculous things like telling a business owner he wants communist public policy.

Think about how ridiculous it is to say that.

This is what I mean about you living in a fantasy world. You have to convince yourself that good hardworking people with different policy ideas are more terrible than what is actually terrible.

All because of your loyalty to your preferred party.

Again...its not about right vs left. It's about right vs wrong.

You accept your side's wrongs by convincing yourself of untrue things.

The former guy didn't win more votes, there's no evidence that he did or the pillow guy would have proved it.

No one is advocating for the government to take over the means of production. No one wants communism.

Democrats are not Satan worshiping pedophiles.

You convince yourselves that a lifelong moderate politician is now the second coming of Lenin.

But you guys NEED to believe that to justify your worship of a demagogue.

What happened to being the "loyal opposition"?

The rational, fair minded, patriotic opposition.

Rush and Fox and now OAN and Breirbert and Newsmax have made millions ginning up anger and fear in a bunch of naive marks.

Wake up. You're going to start your civil war based on absolutely incorrect and untrue make believe bullshit.
 
lostinthelight said:
Oh come on.

Because I want to have universal Healthcare like every other industrialized country does? Also because it will save us a ton of money.

Because I think the wealthy should pay their fair share of taxes?

Because I'm willing to talk about the truth about our country's history?

You guys work so hard to convince yourselves that the left is evil just to justify the terrible actions of the right.

You end up saying ridiculous things like telling a business owner he wants communist public policy.

Think about how ridiculous it is to say that.

This is what I mean about you living in a fantasy world. You have to convince yourself that good hardworking people with different policy ideas are more terrible than what is actually terrible.

All because of your loyalty to your preferred party.

Again...its not about right vs left. It's about right vs wrong.

You accept your side's wrongs by convincing yourself of untrue things.

The former guy didn't win more votes, there's no evidence that he did or the pillow guy would have proved it.

No one is advocating for the government to take over the means of production. No one wants communism.

Democrats are not Satan worshiping pedophiles.

You convince yourselves that a lifelong moderate politician is now the second coming of Lenin.

But you guys NEED to believe that to justify your worship of a demagogue.

What happened to being the "loyal opposition"?

The rational, fair minded, patriotic opposition.

Rush and Fox and now OAN and Breirbert and Newsmax have made millions ginning up anger and fear in a bunch of naive marks.

Wake up. You're going to start your civil war based on absolutely incorrect and untrue make believe bullshit.
Click to expand...
Too long . Didn’t read
 
jerzac said:
He didn't try to stay in power illegally. Contrary to present liberal thought, requesting for an investigation into an election is not illegal. Especially when an old, lying, forgetful bag of bones gets over 10M more votes than the first black president in our history and statistical markers show something just wasn't right. What makes it even more hilarious is Bidens quote of Stalin the other day........."who counts the vote is more important than who votes". This middle and far left in this country is batshit crazy. You keep talking insurrection (without a gun being drawn except by the capital police)....its a pretty lame and week argument but the Democratic (Socialist/Communist) Party is exceptional at the propaganda.
Click to expand...
Let's see if you you're willing to make that argument after the next few months.

Demanding people find votes is not asking for an investigation.

And that many people voted because they could see that our democracy was and still is at stake.
 
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WVUMPA98 said:
So I have some direct involvement in various FISA process. I'll be careful with my words here... The process is fine. It's a court, it's composed of judges who serve concurrently as US District Court judges and who come from R and D Presidents. John Roberts appoints these US district judges concurrent to the FISC.

The court has advisors.... The reason most FISA applications are approved is the crap ones NEVER make it to court. They are pre cleared with the advisor for each judge and if they don't have a chance they never get to the court.

Prior to Congress creating the FISC the Supreme Court had found it Constitutional for the President executing his powers as Commander in Chief to conduct national security surveillance of Americans and foreign persons both domestic and abroad WITHOUT any court at all. This was recognized legal doctrine from 1787 to 1978. Congress and the Carter Administration created the FISC as a self regulatory act... No court required it be created.

In the Carter Page matter (the FISA was on Page not Trump) one FBI attorney lied because exculpatory info provided by CIA would have likely cause the Court to terminate an existing FISA warrant (remember it was a renewal.. not the initial FISA that was the issue at hand). That exculpatory info was that Page had at one point cooperated with CIA. FISA require "probable cause" that a subject of the warrant is an Agent of a Foreign Power. Being a cooperative contact of the CIA generally means you are not an Agent of a Foreign Power absent conclusive info otherwise.

Why have a secret court? Well the example I give is if we had a source next to Putin himself that said a named individual was a spy for Russia we very well would be stupid to compromise that source in order to get a warrant for surveillance operations in open court. Thus the need for FISA.
Click to expand...
The problem is the corruption and political agenda of a few highly placed members of the DOJ and FBI. They should be harshly punished.
 
WVUMPA98 said:
So I have some direct involvement in various FISA process. I'll be careful with my words here... The process is fine. It's a court, it's composed of judges who serve concurrently as US District Court judges and who come from R and D Presidents. John Roberts appoints these US district judges concurrent to the FISC.

The court has advisors.... The reason most FISA applications are approved is the crap ones NEVER make it to court. They are pre cleared with the advisor for each judge and if they don't have a chance they never get to the court.

Prior to Congress creating the FISC the Supreme Court had found it Constitutional for the President executing his powers as Commander in Chief to conduct national security surveillance of Americans and foreign persons both domestic and abroad WITHOUT any court at all. This was recognized legal doctrine from 1787 to 1978. Congress and the Carter Administration created the FISC as a self regulatory act... No court required it be created.

In the Carter Page matter (the FISA was on Page not Trump) one FBI attorney lied because exculpatory info provided by CIA would have likely cause the Court to terminate an existing FISA warrant (remember it was a renewal.. not the initial FISA that was the issue at hand). That exculpatory info was that Page had at one point cooperated with CIA. FISA require "probable cause" that a subject of the warrant is an Agent of a Foreign Power. Being a cooperative contact of the CIA generally means you are not an Agent of a Foreign Power absent conclusive info otherwise.

Why have a secret court? Well the example I give is if we had a source next to Putin himself that said a named individual was a spy for Russia we very well would be stupid to compromise that source in order to get a warrant for surveillance operations in open court. Thus the need for FISA.
Click to expand...


BTW FBI has institutional problems here in my view not because of an overt politics but because like all good detectives they frequently get so involved in digging up the facts they forget why they opened the investigation in the first place. This can be particularly pervasive in national security matters because rarely do you ever charge anyone with a crime.

National Security prosecutions require "parallel reconstruction" of anything uncovered in FISA. Meaning while you may use FISA as lead material to the extent the FBI intends to charge someone they eventually have to get a real warrant in an open court and hope they find they same thing FISA suggested they might find. If they bring charges the defendant will be notified they were subject to the original FISA and their defense attorney can challenge it under CIPA... Afterall everyone has their 4th and 5th Amendment rights ...FISA or not....
 
WVUMPA98 said:
BTW FBI has institutional problems here in my view not because of an overt politics but because like all good detectives they frequently get so involved in digging up the facts they forget why they opened the investigation in the first place. This can be particularly pervasive in national security matters because rarely do you ever charge anyone with a crime.

National Security prosecutions require "parallel reconstruction" of anything uncovered in FISA. Meaning while you may use FISA as lead material to the extent the FBI intends to charge someone they eventually have to get a real warrant in an open court and hope they find they same thing FISA suggested they might find. If they bring charges the defendant will be notified they were subject to the original FISA and their defense attorney can challenge it under CIPA... Afterall everyone has their 4th and 5th Amendment rights ...FISA or not....
Click to expand...


Had Carter Page been charged with a crime his attorney could have challenged the FISA just as he could challenge any search warrant... Page was never charged with a crime. It's not clear that was ever the intent of the FISA which appeared to be looking for the Russian angle more than Page himself
 
lostinthelight said:
Where do you get your information?

The reconciliation bill passed weeks ago.

Lowest unemployment in history.

More jobs created than the previous administration already.

No president with a D beside his name could get the right wing nut jobs to get vaccinated and get this pandemic under control. They are willing to die for their cause...whatever that is these days. Something about somebody named Brandon I guess.

I'll agree with you on the remain in Mexico policy. It's barbaric and that will work itself out in the courts.

Just like insisting the former guy won the election...people saying things won't make them true.

I'll also agree that 2022 midterms will be interesting for sure. The former guy is on his way to completely screwing over the Rs with his crazy endorsements and loyalty tests.

The clowns that will win these primaries will really struggle in the general. Remember "I'm not a witch" lady from DE and the "legitimate rape" guy from MO? They'll look normal compared to the Q and maga nuts next year.

It'll be fun to watch if nothing else.

I'm glad you seem to be reading and studying more. The only issue is your sources. But you stick with that and keep living in your bubble of make believe. It's good for the world.
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Its pretty easy to get the unemployment rate down when you push the work force to retire with vaccination mandates and allow millions of illegals to come in to take jobs. Care to quantify the "more jobs created" comment.....would love to hear it. If they have been, I would guess that 80% of them are government jobs to take more control or via the illegal market. Inflation and spending is out of control. Ask the treasury or OBM. Otherwise, that is just a bullshit statement. I'm going to guess you are going to use the numbers that there are more openings than people to fill them (i.e. the older ones said F off Brandon, I'm done). As far as the right wing nut jobs with the vaccination, you or anyone else answered my legitimate questions the other night. The whole things was done wrong. Trump got the vaccinations, Biden NEVER could have got it done. Also, Trump wouldn't have mandated a vaccine. Someone with some common sense is deemed uneducated, right wing nut jobs and yet most on the left are following a bungling, forgetful, lying, incapable guy that has NEVER worked a real job in his life. You are so caught up in the MSM supporting him, you turn your back to the truth. Trump was hated by many. He was arrogant, tweeted too much and was a too much for all those afraid to get their feelings hurt. I guess its OK to not like him as a person, but Biden doesn't even know he's president half the time. Get a grip.
 
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lostinthelight said:
Let's see if you you're willing to make that argument after the next few months.

Demanding people find votes is not asking for an investigation.

And that many people voted because they could see that our democracy was and still is at stake.
Click to expand...
Keep watching Lemon.
 
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