What’s Buckainmoe thinking about his hero Dana? Even if Dana pulls it out in the end, he’s still struggled with Kansas like Brown. Maybe Kansas is good? Thoughts?
Kansas beating Holgorsen and Houston 42-27 in 4Q
- Thread starter ThePunish-EER
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Well someone was putting MU's coach at the top of the coaching pedestal last week.......they are getting beat by Bowling Green in the 4th quarter.......and BGSU lost to Eastern Kentucky last week.......they are bad.
I think Kansas is good and our loss to them last week looks less bad now. Not that I'm happy with it, but I'm just sayin.'
The demoralizing thing is that it'll probably be at least seven games into the season before WVU is over .500, if not more.
The demoralizing thing is that it'll probably be at least seven games into the season before WVU is over .500, if not more.
Buckainmoe, where you at bro? Your messiah Dana is getting curb stomped by Kansas.
I Knew Kansas would win this game. I watched Houston play the last 3 weeks their team is no good. I think Kansas will start the year 6-0.
Worst possible thing that could have happened to Buckaineer. Hopefully he has someone checking on his mental health.
On the serious side I personally think the worst thing that happened to Dana is Houston getting a Big 12 invite. I have seen all the big 12 newbies and Houston is the furthest from being a power 5 team at the moment. Cincy and Byu can play with the power 5 schools. I think UCF is not quite there but should be able to get there in a couple of years. Holgorsen is a solid G5 coach and that's where he belongs. He is average at best on the power 5 level. I predict he will get fired 2-3 years into he 2nd Big 12 tenure.
If he does take the Nebraska job then I hope we get someone that knows his offense before the rest of the conference figures it out.
DanaH & Staff also had the luxury of seeing everything on film.... WVU beat themselves and Houston was soundly beat even with a significant advantage compared to Neal & staff...
There’s no doubt Dana will be fired 2-3 years in the Big 12. Coming into last year, he hadn’t had a winning season at Houston and was on the verge of being fired and he pulled out a 12-2 season to save himself.
It's called Zone read. ROD ran it for 8 years here.
He was 12-2 because he didn't play teams above .500 and only faced Cincinnati in the final.
If he is smart he will stay at Kansas, Nebraska is lost in the B1G. Then again B1G is tier 1, while Big12 is tier 2.
I know what it's called, and I know what it did for wvu. It's just a disappointment that we went away from it. Air Raid rarely ever wins big games.
Houston played the 12th weakest schedule in Division 1 last season.
He is still trying to prove the BYU thing wasn't a hoax while calling everyone nazis and racists.
Bucky is a fraud. His messiah gets taken to the woodshed and wvu wins and he is nowhere to be found like usual.
Brown isn't even doing that. I wasn't a fan of Holgorsen, but his performance at WVU looks better than Brown's.
Looks can be deceiving. The record looks fine but his wins were against sub par opponents. It's why October and Novembers were always bad for Holgorsen.
Dana in his 61 wins at WVU only 10 were against ranked teams. Lot of those wins were early in his coaching career at WVU. (10-21)
Record Against Old Rivals (Marshall, Pitt, Virginia Tech, Syracuse, & Maryland): 7-5
Largest Margin of Victory: 54-0 vs Towson (2014)
Record Against Bowl Eligible Teams: 5-2 (2011), 3-6 (2012), 1-6 (2013), 3-6 (2014), 3-5 (2015), 4-3 (2016), 3-6 (2017), 3-4 (2018)
Dana was good at recruiting JC and transfers for immediate help in Key areas thus creating a false bottom. Injuries to key players killed him.
Brown good at recruiting for a solid base but takes longer to make a winner and fans don't like it.
Not enough stats on Brown at WVU to compare to 8 years. Except that he's not beating anyone. He is 4-9 against ranked teams at WVU.
Needs to be a good balance between the 2. Good recruiting and top transfers.
Brown will be here until no later than January 1, 2025.
If WVU fires Brown, it owes him "all Total Salary and incentive compensation actually earned and accrued but unpaid under the terms of this Agreement and not paid as of the date of such termination," meaning a prorated sum to cover everything he's due for working up to that date. The extension promises him 100 percent of his remaining salary if he's fired on or before Dec. 31, 2024, meaning another prorated sum to cover everything he'd be due on that day and for continuing to work to the final day of the contract.
Technically, it is true the extension promises him $16.7 if he's fired on Jan. 1, 2023, but that's only because Jan. 1 is the starting date of a new contract year and the salaries in the final four years total $16.7 million. If he was fired on Dec. 31, he'd be owed about $16,709,598, which is all of his 2023-26 salaries plus just one day of his 2022 salary. If he was fired on Jan. 1, he'd be owed all of his 2023-26 salaries. If he was fired a day later, he'd be owed all of his 2023-26 salaries less just one day of 2023 pay.
There is one point in the contract when the calendar would turn and WVU's obligation would be appreciably less than the day before. When the 2024 contract year expires and the 2025 contract year begins, WVU only owes Brown 85 percent of his remaining salary. His 2025-26 salaries are $4.2 and $4.4 million. On Dec. 31, 2024, WVU would owe him the final day of his 2024 salary plus $8.6 million. On Jan. 1, 2025, WVU would owe him $7.31 million.
So he's here at least 2 more years after this season.
Maybe he wins in the future maybe not but I've had enough of him.
I couldn’t stand watching Dana coaching. However, I did like his use and reliance on JC players and transfers. Like Bill Snyder used at KSTATE, this is how teams like WVU can compete. Especially now with the transfer portal, the days of getting guys like Pat White for all 4 years straight from HS are few and far between. We need immediate starters that can contribute right away. Like I said, everything about building and maintaining a D1 football program is different now. Guys like Nehlen would be lost today like everyone else is now. We will have to adapt like everyone else.
I think the Air raid puts far to much on the QB's arm talent. If your QB isnt damn near perfect with his arm talent, your not going to do very well unless you have a 4-5 star at every other position. You are correct tho, the concept in general while its good to go "Win some games", its not on par with a Kyle Shannahan, Josh McDaniels, or Andy Reid schemes...
When a QB has both a good arm & quick feet, it diversifies the ways you can attack opposing defenses, ultimately reducing offensive predictability.
That why I was hopeful Greene's arm & pocket awareness would develop. If he improved on that front, I think Greene would be a fkn dangerous QB.
Also, running 20-30 formations per game, is another way to reduce predictability. Kansas does run RPO & Zone read, but they do a good mix of other concepts too. Which is why they are a good offense, well at least so far. Scheme and a talented QB will only take you so far... The more they put on film the harder it will be to out-scheme every opponent, until they have time to raise the level of talent on the roster. Give Lance credit tho for finding a way to make his team competitive without a loaded roster... But I suspect they will trend downwards as the season progresses, whereas if they also had decent talent(at all positions), combined with their schemes, they would be on a completely different level..
Speed & Shiftiness in my opinion are by far the two most dangerous skillsets, and Im not sure why more coaches dont make it the absolute main priority when recruiting. I would have 1 6'5 TE, and 1 6'3/4 WR, just for skillset diversity sake so when you need a jump ball you have someone to go to... But Id rather have 3-4 RBs/WRs on the field that are 5'8-5'10 run a 4.3 and can cut so fast the rubber pellets form a tire again... Ya know, speed makes those big NFL bodies look stupid at times... That has always been our edge when WVU was good... That and playing with heart, hard nosed, & good fundamentals.
You need an NFL type arm for the air raid offense. Doege didn't have it. Grier had it and JT has it. That it factor where they have the arm an IQ to be able to finish a drive with a TD. Both are accurate passers and JT probably is even more accurate.
You also need an offensive line that knows what's coming and a good run game.
But that speed you speak of has been meaningless in the NFL. You see NFL defenses are just as fast as those 5'8 and 5'10 WR's.
You also need an offensive line that knows what's coming and a good run game.
But that speed you speak of has been meaningless in the NFL. You see NFL defenses are just as fast as those 5'8 and 5'10 WR's.
Things will get more difficult for KU as the season progresses but I think they will have a good season. Most D coordinators are not prepared for what they bring and the personal they have isn't familiar with this offense. I am also not very impressed with the overall quality of the big 12 this season. I see KU finishing middle of the pack or maybe better depending on if they get lucky.
Agree on the Air Raid. Thats why I would prefer a Kansas or Kyle Shannahan style offense, been saying that for a few years on here. It spreads the offensive responsibility around a little more equally, instead of it all being dependent on a single arm... Defenses has caught up to the scheme Rich Rod ran, which is why you have to integrate more into it now if you want to be successful, like Kansas is doing. 25 formations per game, with a healthy mix of concepts / offensive philosophies...
Its true defenses have put more speed on that side of the ball the past 10-15 years, but I dont think its been meaningless. Look at which offensive players are successful. Lamar Jackson, Tyreek Hill, Kyler Murray, Tyler Lockett, Antonio Brown, Devin Dunvernay, Stefon Diggs, Tyler Boyd, Jaylen Waddle, Mecole Hardman, Rondale Moore, Marquise Brown, etc.... which doesnt even include any RBs.. + The College game has always been different from the NFL, so there will always be things that will work well in college that dont in the NFL, for many reasons, some of which could just be NFL hasnt welcome those concepts into the league. Kinda like with Pat White being ahead of his time. If Pat played now, he would be a starting QB in the league, at the very least a quality backup, because the NFL has adapted the offenses deployed now.
When you look at any time when WVU was good beside the Will Grier year, Speed was our primary edge that we used to win. I think we could recruit it a little easier too. It was our "Brand" of football, and part of the issue at WVU now is we dont have a Brand of football that we play or are known for...
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I don't think wvu will have the success that it wants until it gets an innovative offensive system in place that resembles Kansas. We had a similar system under RR but Kansas's system has the passing element that we lacked. I also think blue bloods will be less likely to poach out of KU because they don't know how well there players will project in a more conventional system. Secondly if people want to start winning then they need to start ponying up and donating more to the athletic department. If they truly want Brown gone then they need to step up and raise the money for the buyout. A 16 million dollar buyout is a blue blood buyout. If they can raise that kind of money then put it to better use and start paying players to come to play for wvu.
…. or just shut up about Brown and support the school and the kids that are working their butts off to be successful. The WVU Mountaineers are more than Jim Carlen, Bobby Bowden, Frank Cignetti, Don Nehlen, Rich Rod, Coach Stew, Dana Holgersen and Neal Brown (all the coaches that I have seen roaming the sidelines).
My words exactly... on both fronts. If you are running a unique offense, Blue Bloods may not poach as much because that player wont be in a similar system. Currently the system we run now, is not much different from any other out there, with exception to Kansas.
If just 100,000 of our 1.8 Million fans donated just $25 per month, that would be $30MILLION PER YEAR! Thats just a couple less starbucks per month, a sacrifice we would all take to make being successful a little easier.
Going back to speed being such a impactful skillset. A perfect example of how it negates perhaps more talented(well rounded) more highly recruited NFL bodied players.... The only player on Towson that gave us a hard time was their returner & RB, which is like 5'9 and a shifty speedster type...
If you had 3-4 of those types of players(slightly better) on the field + Dual Threat QB + Quality OL.... You still have a tall TE and WR so you can have those jump ball & seam plays, and you def dont want height to be a limitation, so you always keep a couple 6'3+ players on the roster, as long as they are hard nosed players and the coaches deploy creative schemes, on a Collegiate level I think that is the easiest path for WVU to be successful, and not put such a heavy weight on a single body part of a single player... You can find a Dual Threat with a B+ Arm talent, and A Leg talent, whereas Air Raid requires A+ arm talent+all the secondary factors like pocket awareness, decisiveness, intellect, etc.. While the QB in ANY system still has to be good, its just good in a different way.
I think WVU could recruit that objective more easily too. If we make it our Brand of football and show how shorter players can ball out, then those players will want to come and play in a scheme that knows how to feature their skillset to be successful.
The part that hurt the most about Kansas beating us, was they did using a scheme that we use to own... That was our brand of football and we fkn ruled it... That and the mistakes of shooting ourselves in the foot...
I dont think Brown would ever deploy that type of concept, because its not something hes familiar... But, if Nicco stays at WVU, at least we know we have a quality QB for the next 4 years... Im hoping JTD stays for another year, which will give Nicco 1 more year to develop, mature, & learn... So there may not be any drop in offensive quality when JTD leaves... We'll need to find some WR's tho, cause if both BFW & Sam James leaves after this year we'll need at least 1 quality WR to purchase in the portal... Hopefully we get a couple DB's too... ha..
If you had 3-4 of those types of players(slightly better) on the field + Dual Threat QB + Quality OL.... You still have a tall TE and WR so you can have those jump ball & seam plays, and you def dont want height to be a limitation, so you always keep a couple 6'3+ players on the roster, as long as they are hard nosed players and the coaches deploy creative schemes, on a Collegiate level I think that is the easiest path for WVU to be successful, and not put such a heavy weight on a single body part of a single player... You can find a Dual Threat with a B+ Arm talent, and A Leg talent, whereas Air Raid requires A+ arm talent+all the secondary factors like pocket awareness, decisiveness, intellect, etc.. While the QB in ANY system still has to be good, its just good in a different way.
I think WVU could recruit that objective more easily too. If we make it our Brand of football and show how shorter players can ball out, then those players will want to come and play in a scheme that knows how to feature their skillset to be successful.
The part that hurt the most about Kansas beating us, was they did using a scheme that we use to own... That was our brand of football and we fkn ruled it... That and the mistakes of shooting ourselves in the foot...
I dont think Brown would ever deploy that type of concept, because its not something hes familiar... But, if Nicco stays at WVU, at least we know we have a quality QB for the next 4 years... Im hoping JTD stays for another year, which will give Nicco 1 more year to develop, mature, & learn... So there may not be any drop in offensive quality when JTD leaves... We'll need to find some WR's tho, cause if both BFW & Sam James leaves after this year we'll need at least 1 quality WR to purchase in the portal... Hopefully we get a couple DB's too... ha..
I love Pat White but I don't think the time he came along worked against him. He started in the NFL in 2009 or so. The NFL was taking run/pass QBs by then, but the QB had to be able to pass well and Pat just wasn't a good enough passer. I don't think he could play QB in the NFL if he came along today either.
