Just for kicks let's give the Left their argument...

[Boomboom521]

This is True. It is though a matter of what you believe. What your Faith is or what it's in?

I'm not questioning either.

Someone in this thread called me "dumb" because I stated that we are not here by accident, & I got attacked for commenting on Lennon's "Imagine" song wondering it would be like with no Religion?

Folks can believe what they want, it doesn't change what is though. that is all I said or the the only point I was trying to make.

That's absolutely right. Try to watch the absolutism though. The whole sun analogy, don't look down your nose at others for their belief systems. Besides, as a Christian shouldn't you forgive those that don't believe and try to convert them through love and acceptance? One of the things I identify with in Christian ideology, but don't see it actually practiced much.

 

[atlkvb]

Listen to song Imagine, it doesn't work. People are not going to share their stuff with people who sit around doing nothing. People will always protect their stuff. Jamestown settlement, people were given land to produce goods and then bring to market to share. Guess what? Some didn't do anything but wanted to share in what others had produced. Sound familiar? That set up only lasted one year.

Our entire country was organized as a direct response to that very unworkable system that existed among the Pilgrims when they first arrived here. It was essentially a giant commune at first, and it didn't work.

It wasn't until after things were switched to individuals being responsible for their own plots of land and what they produced on them that things finally worked out for everyone and they celebrated our 1st Thanksgiving as a result of it!

It's the basis of our fundamental Constitutional rights that are under assault today.

 

[Boomboom521]

You continue to prove my point because you really don't care that your vote for Sanders was stolen from you by the very Democratic party you support. That doesn't bother you...only the Russians hacking e-mails, and Trump (for whatever reason)

Oh no, the collusion against Sanders bothers me substantially. That wasn't what you were talking about though. The head of the DNC is gone, and things will change within the party because of that collusion. Clinton wanted to win, the DNC felt Sanders didn't have a chance. Neither are justifications for what they did, but I understand The Who and why so what else is there to do? None of that would make me do anything (including voted third party) to help Trump get elected. Maybe I'm wrong about him, and I hope I am. But he was an unstable, totally money driven, loud talking, candidate to me, whose election helped empower bullies, sexual assult, macho bullshit, and islamophobia (which, to me, is a major problem - how would you like to be seen as a threat by people just because of extremists within your religion like the KKK?)

 

[Boomboom521]

Listen to song Imagine, it doesn't work. People are not going to share their stuff with people who sit around doing nothing. People will always protect their stuff. Jamestown settlement, people were given land to produce goods and then bring to market to share. Guess what? Some didn't do anything but wanted to share in what others had produced. Sound familiar? That set up only lasted one year.

He calls himself a dreamer. In that dream everybody WORKS together

 

[atlkvb]

as a Christian shouldn't you forgive those that don't believe

I can't actually "forgive" them because unbelief is not a Sin...it can lead to it though. I do however pity them, but I also don't condemn them. They really are free to believe what they want or don't want.

Really, the only ones who get attacked for believing in a Creator or being Christian are believers in either.

That's not allowed. You're either dumb, stupid, intolerant, or are expected to keep your whacked out ideas of us being "created" or worshiping a "God" to ourselves.

In fact ANY sort of belief in anything other this humanistic material world is considered heresy by the "enlightened" among us.

 

[atlkvb]

That wasn't what you were talking about though.

That's EXACTLY what I was talking about! The fact the Left is more upset about the hacked e-mails than all the corruption they revealed.

 

[Boomboom521]

I can't actually "forgive" them because unbelief is not a Sin...it can lead to it though. I do however pity them, but I also don't condemn them. They really are free to believe what they want or don't want.

Really, the only ones who get attacked for believing in a Creator or being Christian are believers in either.

That's not allowed. You're either dumb, stupid, intolerant, or are expected to keep your whacked out ideas of us being "created" or worshiping a "God" to ourselves.

In fact ANY sort of belief in anything other this humanistic material world is considered heresy by the "enlightened" among us.

I'm not trying to attack anyone for their beliefs, but when people start pushing their beliefs into others...well that's not American

 

[Boomboom521]

That's EXACTLY what I was talking about! The fact the Left is more upset about the hacked e-mails than all the corruption they revealed.

To be honest, if you want to compare I'm actually more concerned about Russian involvement because it's an ongoing issue. The head of the DNC was forced to resign, and the Dems realize change is needed from the ground up. But if Putin is holding compromising information on Trump or any other GOP lawmaker that concerns me. It concerns me if this is allowed to occur without retribution and it becomes a regular practice.

If that doesn't make sense to you, I guess we just see it differently.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

You continue to prove my point because you really don't care that your vote for Sanders was stolen from you by the very Democratic party you support. That doesn't bother you...only the Russians hacking e-mails, and Trump (for whatever reason)

Holy shit, you're just like WVPATX (and that's not a good thing). No matter what anybody tries to explain to you, you just ignore it and keep spouting the same thing over and over again, putting words into people's mouths.

What you seem to not realize is that the release of those emails was months ago, so the reaction to those emails has already run it's course.

It's only recently that the CIA has said that it was Russia that did it (even though, for whatever reason you want to cling to the idea that we don't know who did it) ... so that's the topic of conversation now.

Why are you only concerned about the contents of the emails and dismissive of a foreign adversary injecting themselves into our elections?

 

[atlkvb]

I'm not trying to attack anyone for their beliefs, but when people start pushing their beliefs into others...well that's not American

No one, least of all me is "pushing" anything on you my friend. I simply stated what I believe, (that we're not here by accident) and asked a rhetorical question about believing or not believing in the Sun as an example even though it is there whether you believe it or not.

 

[Boomboom521]

Holy shit, you're just like WVPATX (and that's not a good thing). No matter what anybody tries to explain to you, you just ignore it and keep spouting the same thing over and over again, putting words into people's mouths.

What you seem to not realize is that the release of those emails was months ago, so the reaction to those emails has already run it's course.

It's only recently that the CIA has said that it was Russia that did it (even though, for whatever reason you want to cling to the idea that we don't know who did it) ... so that's the topic of conversation now.

Why are you only concerned about the contents of the emails and dismissive of a foreign adversary injecting themselves into our elections?

It's a unique talent, this selective awareness.

 

[atlkvb]

Why are you only concerned about the contents of the emails and dismissive of a foreign adversary injecting themselves into our elections?

Because what was in them is what we should be concerned about, not this silliness that they somehow influenced or "changed" the results of the elections.

I don't care if Martians hacked them...I care about the corruption of our political system the Dems were trying to execute that they clearly revealed.

Why you and others on the Left just skip past all of that and want to concentrate instead only on the hacking is quite frankly scary!

 

[dave]

Some of us don't believe in God (had enough respect to capitalize it). That is our right. Get over it.

That is funny because you claim you don't believe in God but you tried to shame people who do for voting for Trump.

 

[Boomboom521]

Because what was in them is what we should be concerned about, not this silliness that they somehow influenced or "changed" the results of the elections.

I don't care if Martians hacked them...I care about the corruption of our political system the Dems were trying to execute that they clearly revealed.

Why you and others on the Left just skip past all of that and want to concentrate instead only on the hacking is quite frankly scary!

Be specific: what system were the Dems trying to initiate? What was so very scary in those emails?

 

[countryroads89]

That is funny because you claim you don't believe in God but you tried to shame people who do for voting for Trump.

Because it is THEIR belief system that they are being hypocritical about.

 

[dave]

Because it is THEIR belief system that they are being hypocritical about.

You can't understand their belief system if you don't know how to believe.

 

[Airport]

He calls himself a dreamer. In that dream everybody WORKS together

Like I said, it never works. People aren't going to share their stuff that they have worked hard for. I guess you could draw a parallel with the votes that have been going on in the US lately. People got tired of giving to the govt and getting nothing but you don't "care enough" in return.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

No one, least of all me is "pushing" anything on you my friend. I simply stated what I believe, (that we're not here by accident) and asked a rhetorical question about believing or not believing in the Sun as an example even though it is there whether you believe it or not.

Criminy ... more with this sun crap ... this has got to be one of the most ridiculous analogies I've ever seen. Yes, the sun is there whether you believe it or not. We can see it, we can feel it (whether you believe in it or not), we can measure its effects on tides, on temperature, on radiation, on the gravitational pull holding our solar system together. You have a belief in God, good for you, but you have no empirical proof that it's there. Nothing tangible and measurable, just a belief.

 

[countryroads89]

You can't understand their belief system if you don't know how to believe.

I have read the Bible cover to cover several times. Yes, it is easy to point out the hypocrisy.

An analogy would be if you were familiar with the Quran and I were Muslim and you pointed out my hypocrisy regarding Islam.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

Because what was in them is what we should be concerned about, not this silliness that they somehow influenced or "changed" the results of the elections.

I don't care if Martians hacked them...I care about the corruption of our political system the Dems were trying to execute that they clearly revealed.

Why you and others on the Left just skip past all of that and want to concentrate instead only on the hacking is quite frankly scary!

Again ... people have already voiced their concerns about them ... the election bared that out.
Now we have this ongoing investigation to the extent of Russian involvement. You want to rail on the corruption of our political system by the Dems, but not the Russians??? Are you serious with this? I don't believe they'll find proof, but what if it was done at the behest of Trump. Does his collusion with a foreign adversary not bother you?

You don't have to answer any of those questions, I already know what your answer is going to be.

 

[atlkvb]

if Putin is holding compromising information on Trump or any other GOP lawmaker that concerns me. It concerns me if this is allowed to occur without retribution and it becomes a regular practice.

If that doesn't make sense to you, I guess we just see it differently.

I am also bothered by this if it's true. This is what the investigations are all about and I hope they find out what's going on and if it is going on put a stop to it.

But that is a separate issue from the corruption of our Democratic election process, and what bothers me more than the Russians trying to tamper with the results of the election by hacking those e-mails (if they did) is how cavalier the Left is over the actual corruption that the Democratic party was clearly engaged in the hacked e-mails revealed!

That's just stunning to me. They're suggesting that the hacking changed the elections results without getting upset over what the principles in those hacked e mails were up to?

Incredible.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

I am also bothered by this if it's true. This is what the investigations are all about and I hope they find out what's going on and if it is going on put a stop to it.

But that is a separate issue from the corruption of our Democratic election process, and what bothers me more than the Russians trying to tamper with the results of the election by hacking those e-mails is how cavalier the Left is being over the actual corruption that party was clearly engaged in that the hacked e-mails revealed.

It's just stunning to me. Them suggesting that the revelations changed the elections results without getting upset over what the principles in those e mails were up to?

Incredible.

This board already has one WVPATX, it doesn't need another

 

[Boomboom521]

You can't understand their belief system if you don't know how to believe.

That's foolish

 

[atlkvb]

I don't believe they'll find proof, but what if it was done at the behest of Trump. Does his collusion with a foreign adversary not bother you?

You answered your question with your first comment...but if they do find that Trump was compromised or has been "bought off" yes that would bother me.

Were you bothered by what Hillary was offering or being paid by the Foreign Governments who were buying access to her through the Clinton Foundation?

I don't expect you to answer that either. You voted for her, so clearly that didn't bother you.

 

[WhiteTailEER]

You answered your question with your first comment...but if they do find that Trump was compromised or has been "bought off" yes that would bother me.

Were you bothered by what Hillary was offering or being paid by the Foreign Governments who were buying access to her through the Clinton Foundation?

I don't expect you to answer that either. You voted for her, so clearly that didn't bother you.

I voted for her? Really???
That's news to me.
Yes, that bothers me just as much as Trump's foreign investments and how certain political decisions will be more profitable for him than others. But you voted for Trump, so clearly that didn't other you.

You are just like WVPATX ... you don't know the first thing about me, haven't seen any of my posts regarding her and who I supported and how I voted but you are quick to make the claim.

 

[mneilmont]

I voted for her? Really???
That's news to me.
Yes, that bothers me just as much as Trump's foreign investments and how certain political decisions will be more profitable for him than others. But you voted for Trump, so clearly that didn't other you.

You are just like WVPATX ... you don't know the first thing about me, haven't seen any of my posts regarding her and who I supported and how I voted but you are quick to make the claim.

So, are you prepared to tell us you did not vote for her or supported her over Trump?

 

[bornaneer]

So, are you prepared to tell us you did not vote for her or supported her over Trump?

I think he has told us several times he did not vote for her.

 

[TarHeelEer]

I have read the Bible cover to cover several times

That's very difficult to believe with some of your statements here.

 

[Boomboom521]

Like I said, it never works. People aren't going to share their stuff that they have worked hard for. I guess you could draw a parallel with the votes that have been going on in the US lately. People got tired of giving to the govt and getting nothing but you don't "care enough" in return.

He was a dreamer, but you know....he's not the only one

 

[atlkvb]

Yes, that bothers me just as much as Trump's foreign investments and how certain political decisions will be more profitable for him than others. But you voted for Trump, so clearly that didn't other you.

Yes I voted for Trump, but for his promises to stop all of the "Crony Capitalism" Clinton was up to her neck in.

You haven't said who you voted for, & that's cool...but I also don't hear you criticizing Clinton. Only Trump. So I only can gather you supported her agenda over Trump's?

You haven't said one way or the other, and honestly I don't blame you. I'd be embarrassed to say I voted for her too.

 

[Boomboom521]

Yes I voted for Trump, but for his promises to stop all of the "Crony Capitalism" Clinton was up to her neck in.

You haven't said who you voted for, & that's cool...but I also don't hear you criticizing Clinton. Only Trump. So I only can gather you supported her agenda over Trump's?

You haven't said one way or the other, and honestly I don't blame you. I'd be embarrassed to say I voted for her too.

I voted for her

 

[atlkvb]

I voted for her

Good for you! Guess what? You lost. And it wasn't because of any Russian e mail hackers.

 

[Boomboom521]

Good for you! Guess what? You lost. And it wasn't because of any Russian e mail hackers.

At the very beginning of this thread I actually capitalized it when I said that she lost not because of Putin's hack. Again you just don't see that though do you. Keep stroking yourself with that comforting narrative, seems to be trend with you. I think you and many others voted for a billionaire out of anger and resentment....we will see where that gets us.

I just wanted you to see that not everyone is embarrassed to lose my friend. Not everything is about winning and losing, it'd be nice if the discourse in this country wasn't just about winning either.

 

[Airport]

At the very beginning of this thread I actually capitalized it when I said that she lost not because of Putin's hack. Again you just don't see that though do you. Keep stroking yourself with that comforting narrative, seems to be trend with you. I think you and many others voted for a billionaire out of anger and resentment....we will see where that gets us.

I just wanted you to see that not everyone is embarrassed to lose my friend. Not everything is about winning and losing, it'd be nice if the discourse in this country wasn't just about winning either.

You are right. We, the repubs, took it on the chin when Obama told everybody in the first meeting, elections have consequences. They do, and now the shoe is on the other foot. I'd like to think that Obamacare will be repealed and that dems will be brought on to help design something new that does away with most of the ACA.

 

[atlkvb]

I think you and many others voted for a billionaire out of anger and resentment

You know what Boomboom521, I actually agree with you on this.

I really resented crooked Hillary. There was no way I felt that dishonest, corrupt, incompetent, arrogant, power chasing, money grubbing, Saul Alinsky radical Leftist Socialist "dumbest Woman in the world" either earned the right or deserved the privilege of being called 'Madame President' of these United States of America.

Not after she left those poor Americans in that Benghazi Hell hole to be slowly tortured and ultimately burned to Death, then lied to both their Families and the American people saying their Deaths were the result of some dumb ass anti-Mohammad video when she knew all along it was a straight up Terrorist attack before it even got started!

Lyin' "Kankle Ankle" Nurse Ratchet actin', hackin', coughing, half standing, b(capital I) atch!!!!!

Ugh, can't stand her.

 

[Boomboom521]

You know what Boomboom52, I actually agree with you on this.

I really resented crooked Hillary. There was no way I felt that dishonest, corrupt, incompetent, arrogant, power chasing, money grubbing, Saul Alinsky radical Leftist Socialist "dumbest Woman in the world" either earned the right or deserved the privilege of being called 'Madame President' of these United States of America.

Not after she left those poor Americans in that Benghazi Hell hole to be slowly tortured and ultimately burned to Death, then lied to both their Families and the American people saying their Deaths were the result of some dumb ass anti-Mohammad video when she knew all along it was a straight up Terrorist attack before it even got started!

Lyin' "Kankle Ankle" Nurse Ratchet actin', hackin', coughing, half standing, b(capital I) atch!!!!!

Ugh, can't stand her.

Hey, at least your honest. Well, rest easy my friend her political career is absolutely dead. I just hope Trump learns how to be a president quickly, despite what some may think, it's NOT the same as running a company. He hasn't been sworn it yet, and he is poking China (maybe to a good outcome, maybe to diaster). There's a nuance to international politics that doesn't translate to a boardroom bully. We will see. Short term, it's good for me (the economy will boom I'm sure, lower premiums,etc) but long term I think his policies will be bad for the nation and everyone in it.

 

[atlkvb]

Hey, at least your honest. Well, rest easy my friend her political career is absolutely dead. I just hope Trump learns how to be a president quickly, despite what some may think, it's NOT the same as running a company. He hasn't been sworn it yet, and he is poking China (maybe to a good outcome, maybe to diaster). There's a nuance to international politics that doesn't translate to a boardroom bully. We will see. Short term, it's good for me (the economy will boom I'm sure, lower premiums,etc) but long term I think his policies will be bad for the nation and everyone in it.

I'm glad it's all not up him, otherwise I think you're right we'd be in trouble. I think some of his cabinet picks have been fabulous, and despite the Media's attempts to portray him as some sort of off the wall Playboy Preppy smug self centered braggadocio, he's very smart, has tremendous Political instincts, knows how to read Bullsh*tters, and I truly believe Loves this country instead of hates it like a lot of the Left does.

I hope he gets things fixed for us because if he doesn't, The United States of America as you and I know it and have known it, is finished like Pitt was once they joined the ACC!

Nice jawing with you Boomboom521...go Mountaineers!

 

[Boomboom521]

I'm glad it's all not up him, otherwise I think you're right we'd be in trouble. I think some of his cabinet picks have been fabulous, and despite the Media's attempts to portray him as some sort of off the wall Playboy Preppy smug self centered braggadocio, he's very smart, has tremendous Political instincts, knows how to read Bullsh*tters, and I truly believes Loves this country instead of hates it like a lot of the Left does.

I hope he gets things fixed for us because if he doesn't, The United States of America as you and I know it and have known it, is finished like Pitt was once they joined the ACC!

Nice jawing with you Boomboom521...go Mountaineers!

Nice exchange, and I appreciate it very much. Proof that what connects us is greater than what divides us, always. Go Mountaineers!

 

[WVPATX]

I voted for her? Really???
That's news to me.
Yes, that bothers me just as much as Trump's foreign investments and how certain political decisions will be more profitable for him than others. But you voted for Trump, so clearly that didn't other you.

You are just like WVPATX ... you don't know the first thing about me, haven't seen any of my posts regarding her and who I supported and how I voted but you are quick to make the claim.

This guy blocks me and claims that I know everything about him. My opinion is that he is a liberal masquerading as a more middle of the road person, but if you read his posts, his ideology is evident. I'm a conservative and proudly admit it. Maybe that's the difference between us.

 

[atlkvb]

ou have no empirical proof that it's there. Nothing tangible and measurable, just a belief.

Really WhiteTailEER?

OK do me a favor. Hold up your fingers...look at them really close (like you can see those little "lines" in them). Know what those are? Fingerprints. Yours!

Know what else? In all of the history of Human Beings that have ever lived from the beginning of time to now, to anyone else who comes after you...no one will ever have those same exact patterns in their fingers like yours. No one. Those are unique my Man to you...and everyone else who's ever been Created. No two prints on any finger alike ever...billions and billions, and billions of fingers and even people and no 2 are exactly ever alike, and never have been. EVER.

You can say the same thing about anything "created", Fish, Birds, Bees, Ants, Worms, even Snowflakes..and then even down into the subatomic level...freakin' Atoms. no two exactly identical. Nothing Created or in Creation is ever duplicated or equaled or copied. Everything is unique, a stand alone creation that's a mark of the infinite Creator. We can't make it, or copy it. Not even blood plasma. You need blood, you need a donor or a transfusion from someone else with your similar blood type. We (Men) can't make it, don't know how it's done. Can't copy it either.

It doesn't stop here on Earth either, Planets, Stars, Solar systems, Galaxies, into infinity...further than we can even see or reach...all of it out there is unique, uncopied, unduplicated, can't be matched or re-created, one of a kind.

Now you may want to believe all of that creativity and uniqueness is all sitting there by accident but if you believe that you have to also rule out the "random" nature of everything else you may think came into its own existence. It did this with no plan, no design, no patterns, no way to know it was never to duplicate itself again, so it never did?

You say nothing measurable? Nothing empirical? No proof of a master designed plan of infinite creations of infinite perfection?

And you say I have no "proof" of my belief?

Open your eyes Mountaineer.