If the Big 12-2=10 fails to expand...

[Rootmaster]

it makes me wonder if anyone will ever take any future expansion considerations seriously...or even care. Also makes me wonder if that no decision would damage an already less-than-stellar public opinion of the status of the conference as a P5 conference. Finally, makes me wonder if this doesn't give both Ok and Tx even more wiggle room to search for the right post Big 12-2=10 conference options. Not being Chicken Little, but an unstable conference is bad, bad, bad for WVU...big time program in a small state with small markets. While we worry about whether Lyons is the right AD or whether DH is a good coach...the sports program at WVU is in the hands of a bunch of midwestern university administrators. Hey, maybe WVU can become the BYU, or ND of the East? Let's see...a routine schedule that includes Maryland, Pitt, Virginia Tech, Ohio State, Tennessee etc

 

[DelawarEER]

I love the idea of WVU as an independent like ND or BYU but I think the chances of us making the playoff as an independent would be difficult. Also, where would our money stream come from? Right now we make around $30mil/year being in Big 12.

 

[Rootmaster]

Zach...I was joking about indie status. However,remember that the money comes from the conference and its deal with the networks., If it implodes, easy math, there goes the money. If the school Presidents other than at Tx and Ok had balls they would push for adding four of the best that is left and force Tx and Ok to make a decision on are they supportive of the conference or not. A TV deal that paid less but provided stability might be preferable to living like a king and then once the shoe drops, find yourself in peasant status. Without expansion and an extension of GOR then the conference is a dead man walking and that is...not good for the Mountaineers.

 

[xgunnx]

Once upon a time. The Mountaineers were a Eastern Independent Football Team.

 

[Rootmaster]

xgun...yes they were. your point? lol My point was, is, if things fall apart in the conference, WVU's realistic options are limited...and going backwards to the AAC etc doesn't seem attractive you know?

 

[DelawarEER]

xgun...yes they were. your point? lol My point was, is, if things fall apart in the conference, WVU's realistic options are limited...and going backwards to the AAC etc doesn't seem attractive you know?[/QUOTE
I agree Root, if the conference implodes in this moment in time then WVU will not be in good shape. With that being said, judgement day won't come at least until the contract with Texas&ESPN expires in the 2020s. A lot can happen in the college football landscape for WVU by that time...

 

[xgunnx]

Rootmaster, the point is it wouldn't be unfamiliar territory "in a worst case scenario" that The Mountaineers become a independent again.

But a lot of things would have to occur for that to happen. Starting with a failed Big XII conference.

 

[topdecktiger]

Also makes me wonder if that no decision would damage an already less-than-stellar public opinion of the status of the conference as a P5 conference.

It would not.

 

[Buckaineer]

No decision will be a PR disaster for the BIG 12 as every ridiculous poorly thought out decision the conference has made over the years.

The conference will be bashed mercilously just as they have been so far as the outside determination to wreck the conference continues on.

As for WVU (or anyone) independence is not a possibility in todays world unless you are ND and even that is closing. The scheduling would be a nightmare with few home games. The money would be gone--ND can only do it due to rich supporters and a network that is infatuated with them.

Who else is getting their own network deal ala ND?

Its part of what makes the lack of decision making in the conference so astounding--several programs that have invested billions over the years are going to be in jeopardy of being forced out of major college athletics. Political influence is probably the only thing that can have any affect at that point.

 

[~IRWT~]

it makes me wonder if anyone will ever take any future expansion considerations seriously...or even care. Also makes me wonder if that no decision would damage an already less-than-stellar public opinion of the status of the conference as a P5 conference. Finally, makes me wonder if this doesn't give both Ok and Tx even more wiggle room to search for the right post Big 12-2=10 conference options. Not being Chicken Little, but an unstable conference is bad, bad, bad for WVU...big time program in a small state with small markets. While we worry about whether Lyons is the right AD or whether DH is a good coach...the sports program at WVU is in the hands of a bunch of midwestern university administrators. Hey, maybe WVU can become the BYU, or ND of the East? Let's see...a routine schedule that includes Maryland, Pitt, Virginia Tech, Ohio State, Tennessee etc

I'd point out that the Big 12 was a highly rated conference, as in 1 on the Power Index, for portions of last season. Both OU and Texas have righly ranked recuiting classes for next year. Hopefully we can replace Baylor as another power school for the conference. If we can get solid production out of OSU, TCU, KSU out of conference we are fine. Maybe perhaps even Baylor can manage to keep it together. ACC was nobodys darling a few seasons back for instance. That said, we all know Texas and OU hold our ultimate destiny in ther hands. What can you do but play good football, keep improving facilites and academics and see what happens next decade.

 

[Mountain Man]

You don't expand just for the sake of expanding by adding non power 5 teams.

 

[Buckaineer]

You DO expand to position your conference better competitively, to give it an equal shot at the playoff instead of a disadvantage, to bring in better recruits into the league, to expand the footprint and inventory available to monetize, to add corporate sponsors and donors to the league, to improve television ratings by adding fans in new markets that aren't otherwise watching or caring, to improve positive press for the league, etc. etc. etc.

Doing nothing is a death sentence to the conference with each school withering for the better part of a decade until some leave.

G5 is just an artificial designation. Those schools are beating "power" schools left and right every year.

 

[CAJUNEER]

Doing nothing is a death sentence to the conference with each school withering for the better part of a decade until some leave.

G5 is just an artificial designation. Those schools are beating "power" schools left and right every year.

 

[Rootmaster]

I don't understand the obsession to trash everything Buck says. Buck and I hardly agree on most things, but he is correct when it comes to the conference...doing nothing virtually assures more turmoil in the future...turmoil at best. Those who seem to think WVU is above the fallout are staring at a train coming at them.

 

[VaultHunter]

Look another Rootmaster thread bashing the Big12!

 

[DelawarEER]

I am completely in favor of BIG12 expansion - as every WVU fan should be. By adding different markets to the BIG12 footprint, it could only add more eyes to television sets/ streaming on devices which in turn would bring up more investment opportunities for the league as a whole.

 

[VaultHunter]

I know you think you're being cute with the Big12-2=10 thing but you do realize every conference with a number doesn't have that number of teams right?

 

[topdecktiger]

I don't understand the obsession to trash everything Buck says. Buck and I hardly agree on most things, but he is correct when it comes to the conference...doing nothing virtually assures more turmoil in the future...turmoil at best. Those who seem to think WVU is above the fallout are staring at a train coming at them.

No it doesn't. The only problem is when the Big 12 hems and haws over this expansion issue. Let's just say for the sake of argument they aren't going to expand. Well, if they just finalize that decision and move on, that ends all the "turmoil."

That said, expansion isn't really going to solve anything anyway. It's been recently reported that even if the conference expands, they aren't going to extend the GOR. Ok, well that doesn't solve the issue of Texas or Oklahoma leaving. That issue is still there either way.

 

[Buckaineer]

Neither Texas nor Oklahoma have said they don't want to or won't extend the BIG 12 GOR and the pundits articles written by those with a vested interest in the BIg 12 NOT expanding - have only stated that right now- as of today, neither has expressed an interest in doing that based on unsourced insiders opinions. Of course if the BIG 12 hasn't expanded or gotten a new contract UT and Texas haven't voiced an opinion of extending GORs--why would they or anyone else?

The conference hasn't had its meetings yet, nothing has been decided, but many are speculating that expansion MAY not happen during this meeting- which virtually everyone in the conference has already said is the case.

As soon as they announce expansion MAY not happen, or it is tabled, the pundits and trolls will run wild with death to the BIG 12 scenarios and this will weaken the conference greatly- just as it is designed to do.

Everyone at every school not named UT or OU should therefore do what is in THEIR best interest and push the media partners to honor existing contracts and for the conference members to do what is best for the entire membership.

Posters like T tiger are here because they think if the BIg 12 breaks up Texas will join the ACC, so everything he/she says MUST be taken with that grain of salt.

WVU FANS need to stop supporting the enemy that wants WVU dumped into a lower level of college athletics while the Purdues, wake forests, BCS, etc. prosper off what WVU helped create in the first place and has proved they belong as a part of. if you don't do or say anything except bashing your own conference and dreaming fantasies of WVU being accepted elsewhere, then what happens will largely be on you.

 

[Orlaco]

I don't understand the obsession to trash everything Buck says.

I agree. I certainly only trash him when he's being over the top rediculous..... ....which in retrospect is all the time.

 

[Buckaineer]

Its not hard to understand why trolls like Orlaco want to trash me. Read what they say about WVU and the BIG 12 regularly and what I've said.

Ask yourself why trolls like Orlaco are so desperate to stop anyone from paying attention to me-when you all are intelligent enough to make your own decisions.

 

[Orlaco]

There is NO WAY that I have 'trashed' the Big 12 to the level you have.... ....no way.

 

[Buckaineer]

While Orlaco continues to trash the BIG 12 and WVU and myself repeatedly, the issue isn't me
or Orlaco--the issue is WVU and what is going on in the BIG 12.

Despite Orlaco's obsession and trolling and hatred of the conference and WVU and myself, I'll continue discussing with anyone that wants to what is going on and prospects for WVU and WVUs conference future.

 

[writeon]

Which is the larger problem--B12 expansion vs. no expansion or Orlaco vs. Buckaineer?

 

[Buckaineer]

BIG 12 expansion or not is the issue-- and what effect will that have on the Mountaineers going forward?

Looking at the landscape and what the pundits are saying, WVUs best future is with a strong BIG 12.

A strong BIG 12 is an expanded BIG 12. Staying as is wont change anything for the better.

 

[topdecktiger]

Neither Texas nor Oklahoma have said they don't want to or won't extend the BIG 12 GOR and the pundits articles written by those with a vested interest in the BIg 12 NOT expanding - have only stated that right now- as of today, neither has expressed an interest in doing that based on unsourced insiders opinions. Of course if the BIG 12 hasn't expanded or gotten a new contract UT and Texas haven't voiced an opinion of extending GORs--why would they or anyone else?

The conference hasn't had its meetings yet, nothing has been decided, but many are speculating that expansion MAY not happen during this meeting- which virtually everyone in the conference has already said is the case.

As soon as they announce expansion MAY not happen, or it is tabled, the pundits and trolls will run wild with death to the BIG 12 scenarios and this will weaken the conference greatly- just as it is designed to do.

Everyone at every school not named UT or OU should therefore do what is in THEIR best interest and push the media partners to honor existing contracts and for the conference members to do what is best for the entire membership.

Posters like T tiger are here because they think if the BIg 12 breaks up Texas will join the ACC, so everything he/she says MUST be taken with that grain of salt.

WVU FANS need to stop supporting the enemy that wants WVU dumped into a lower level of college athletics while the Purdues, wake forests, BCS, etc. prosper off what WVU helped create in the first place and has proved they belong as a part of. if you don't do or say anything except bashing your own conference and dreaming fantasies of WVU being accepted elsewhere, then what happens will largely be on you.

There is no grand conspiracy against the Big 12. The reason for the "negative" reporting is that the Big 12 (i.e David Boren) keep airing all this laundry in public. The reason other conferences never got this kind of "criticism" is because they did all their discussion behind closed doors. A perfect example is when the Big Ten got Maryland and Rutgers. Nobody heard a thing about that move until it had been finalized.

It's also not because of this idea that Texas will join the ACC. That's absurd. Here's the truth. Texas wants to keep the LHN, and the only way to do that is in the Big 12. The truth is, Texas and Oklahoma aren't leaving the conference either way. That's why the members are cooling on expansion.

 

[Rootmaster]

The truth is, Texas and Oklahoma aren't leaving the conference either way.

And what crystal ball did you conjure this up from? Truth is, no one knows, and that is the stability issue in a nut shell like it or not. Are you not seeing the drift? Has the Big 12-2=10 gotten stronger or has the rest of the Power Group gotten better? Numbers apparently help lol. History shows that unless the name is Tx or Ok the teams in the conference aren't taken as seriously. Maybe that is why, with the two of them down, that scribs are saying how weak the conference is. Got to start building for the future or the eight other members of the conference might end up calling the AAC or Mountain West home.

 

[Buckaineer]

There is no grand conspiracy against the Big 12. The reason for the "negative" reporting is that the Big 12 (i.e David Boren) keep airing all this laundry in public. The reason other conferences never got this kind of "criticism" is because they did all their discussion behind closed doors. A perfect example is when the Big Ten got Maryland and Rutgers. Nobody heard a thing about that move until it had been finalized.

It's also not because of this idea that Texas will join the ACC. That's absurd. Here's the truth. Texas wants to keep the LHN, and the only way to do that is in the Big 12. The truth is, Texas and Oklahoma aren't leaving the conference either way. That's why the members are cooling on expansion.

The "conspiracy" as you call it may not be "grand", but yes there are those intent on breaking up the conference from the media to the message board shills. Countless blogs, articles, discussions you name it show this to be true. "Do Texas and OU want to SAVE the BIG 12"?, on and on and on with no basis for the article but "anonymous person with ties"-

Boren didn't do anything but speak out about the negative treatment and negative press the conference gets that doesn't fit the reality of the conference. The conference hasn't pushed all of the stories, they've been very quiet about it all while the negative press daily writes BIG 12 bashing garbage about things the press or message board posters made up in the first place.

The situation is VERY similar to just before the network broke up the Big East, except that the BIG 12 still has 8 years at least left on their contracts. So what does the media (not Boren) do? Speculate like a messge board troll that "well no one has challenged a gor yet but some think that with two or three years left things can be negotiated out of" and similar bunk...but no, no one has it out for the conference at all.

Please.

 

[topdecktiger]

And what crystal ball did you conjure this up from? Truth is, no one knows, and that is the stability issue in a nut shell like it or not. Are you not seeing the drift? Has the Big 12-2=10 gotten stronger or has the rest of the Power Group gotten better? Numbers apparently help lol. History shows that unless the name is Tx or Ok the teams in the conference aren't taken as seriously. Maybe that is why, with the two of them down, that scribs are saying how weak the conference is. Got to start building for the future or the eight other members of the conference might end up calling the AAC or Mountain West home.

The crystal ball I conjured up is called common sense.

Numbers don't help. The Big 12 was more unstable 6 years ago, when at 12 teams, it was the same size as the SEC and ACC, and larger than the Big Ten or Pac 10. Numbers didn't help then, and they won't now. Adding in G5 teams isn't going to do a single thing for "stability."

Regarding your issue of stability, that doesn't have anything to do with the other conferences. "History" does not show that the Big 12 isn't taken as seriously. Had Baylor (or TCU) made it in over Ohio St in 2014, that would not have changed the "stability" of the Big 12 one iota. The Big 12 is not in trouble. Texas and Oklahoma aren't leaving. The Big 12 is on par (financially and competitively) with the other P5 conferences. The SEC and Big Ten are a little ahead of the pack, but the Big 12, ACC, and Pac 12 are basically on equal footing.

The "conspiracy" as you call it may not be "grand", but yes there are those intent on breaking up the conference from the media to the message board shills. Countless blogs, articles, discussions you name it show this to be true. "Do Texas and OU want to SAVE the BIG 12"?, on and on and on with no basis for the article but "anonymous person with ties"-

Boren didn't do anything but speak out about the negative treatment and negative press the conference gets that doesn't fit the reality of the conference. The conference hasn't pushed all of the stories, they've been very quiet about it all while the negative press daily writes BIG 12 bashing garbage about things the press or message board posters made up in the first place.

The situation is VERY similar to just before the network broke up the Big East, except that the BIG 12 still has 8 years at least left on their contracts. So what does the media (not Boren) do? Speculate like a messge board troll that "well no one has challenged a gor yet but some think that with two or three years left things can be negotiated out of" and similar bunk...but no, no one has it out for the conference at all.

Please.

There is not a conspiracy AT ALL against the Big 12. Writers are not intent on breaking up the Big 12. The Big 12 is the one keeping this in the news, because they keep making these announcements about expansion meetings, deadlines, studies, etc. Again, you didn't hear Jim Delany announcing the Big Ten would be having expansion discussion at spring meetings or anything like that. They did everything behind closed doors, so the media simply didn't have anything to write about.

Boren did do something. He kept on talking about how dire it was for the Big 12 to expand. Well, if a president of a Big 12 university makes it sound like the conference is at such an disadvantage without expanding, what the hell do you think reports are going to write? Again, you never heard Jim Delany, Mike Slive, etc. going out and saying anything during these expansion talks. They kept their mouths shut and didn't say anything until there was something to report.

No, this situation is nothing like the Big East. Not in any way, shape, or form. You keep bringing up the media "trashing" the Big 12. Did you not notice all the articles "trashing" the ACC about a conference network? You had plenty of writers, bloggers, and message board "trolls" (as you call them) saying the ACC wasn't getting a network, Clemson and Florida St were leaving, North Carolina and Virginia were leaving, the conference would fall apart, etc. That was going on for several years. (Wrong on all accounts, by the way.) But according to you, it's only the Big 12 that ever gets negative press. It's some "conspiracy" to bring down the Big 12. No, really it's just that you are paranoid.

 

[Buckaineer]

The conference is under seige from all quarters. A google search pulls up multiple anti BIG 12 stories per day. The television shows just ignore the BIG 12 outright or only spew negative stories about the conference with anonymous sources pouring out gloom and doom.

The conference is quiet. They aren't confirming any of these stories, or discussing much about what they are doing. Boren stated the idea that OU is against expansion now is false and he doesn't know where it came from.

It was made up thats where--in order to harm the conference.

Some want to go out and call it a "conspiracy"--that is their word not mine. However the idea that the conference isn't daily being trashed and some aren't actively seeking its destruction is just a lie.

Really amazing that someone from another conference is so desperate to paint that picture that no one is against the conference or trying to influence a break up when clearly a simple look at google searching for the BIG 12 will show its absolutely the case.

 

[Rootmaster]

6 years ago, when at 12 teams, it was the same size as the SEC and ACC, and larger than the Big Ten o

And now we are the little guy in the locker room. thanks for making my point so smoothly. Couldn't have done better myself. lol

 

[topdecktiger]

The conference is under seige from all quarters. A google search pulls up multiple anti BIG 12 stories per day. The television shows just ignore the BIG 12 outright or only spew negative stories about the conference with anonymous sources pouring out gloom and doom.

The conference is quiet. They aren't confirming any of these stories, or discussing much about what they are doing. Boren stated the idea that OU is against expansion now is false and he doesn't know where it came from.

It was made up thats where--in order to harm the conference.

Some want to go out and call it a "conspiracy"--that is their word not mine. However the idea that the conference isn't daily being trashed and some aren't actively seeking its destruction is just a lie.

Really amazing that someone from another conference is so desperate to paint that picture that no one is against the conference or trying to influence a break up when clearly a simple look at google searching for the BIG 12 will show its absolutely the case.

The Big 12 is not "under siege." That's idiotic. The reason there are stories about the Big 12 is because they are the only conference considering expansion. The Big 12 has been in the process of vetting expansion candidates (remember the 18-20 school list?), and are supposed to be meeting this month about expansion. Of course that's going to be news.

Nobody is "trashing" the Big 12, and nobody is actively seeking to destroy it. The truth is, the Big 12 is in this position because of internal failures.

And now we are the little guy in the locker room. thanks for making my point so smoothly. Couldn't have done better myself. lol

No, it doesn't make your point. According to your logic, the Big 12 should have been fine 6 years ago, because it has the same numbers as the biggest conferences in FBS.

 

[Rootmaster]

He kicks...wide right! Sorry Top. Keep working at it. lol

 

[HurdyGurdyEer]

My guess is that something that some of you can never imagine will happen and WVU will be ok.

 

[WVex-pat in GA]

We will know by Monday night, just in time for SportsCenter!

 

[topdecktiger]

He kicks...wide right! Sorry Top. Keep working at it. lol

I don't have to. I already got it right the first time.

 

[Darth_VadEER]

The conference is under seige from all quarters. A google search pulls up multiple anti BIG 12 stories per day. The television shows just ignore the BIG 12 outright or only spew negative stories about the conference with anonymous sources pouring out gloom and doom.

The conference is quiet. They aren't confirming any of these stories, or discussing much about what they are doing. Boren stated the idea that OU is against expansion now is false and he doesn't know where it came from.

It was made up thats where--in order to harm the conference.

Some want to go out and call it a "conspiracy"--that is their word not mine. However the idea that the conference isn't daily being trashed and some aren't actively seeking its destruction is just a lie.

Really amazing that someone from another conference is so desperate to paint that picture that no one is against the conference or trying to influence a break up when clearly a simple look at google searching for the BIG 12 will show its absolutely the case.

You weren't always this goofy and paranoid.

What happened? As an observer, you display traits of someone needing assistance, and I'm not saying that to be funny or snarky.

You've gone off the edge.

 

[Rootmaster]

So now I hear rumors, not confirmed or anything close, that the Presidents may be trying to put a 16 team super conference together welcoming back Nebraska and Colorado and adding Houston, Cincinnati, USF and UCF. Doubt it but some media folks talking off record. Complete new media deal with emphasis on future media...as in...pay for stream. I think it is koolaid talking, but who knows.

 

[HurdyGurdyEer]

So now I hear rumors, not confirmed or anything close, that the Presidents may be trying to put a 16 team super conference together welcoming back Nebraska and Colorado and adding Houston, Cincinnati, USF and UCF. Doubt it but some media folks talking off record. Complete new media deal with emphasis on future media...as in...pay for stream. I think it is koolaid talking, but who knows.

Yeah .... I wonder where you heard that.

 

[WVex-pat in GA]

Doubt it but some media folks talking off record.

Root, can you give us some insight on your media connection....off the record, of course.