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Good read on the last schools standing for Big 12 expansion.

Another Big 12 expansion article with no credible sources to back up its claims. Im sure there will be a new one in the next few days with different schools listed as the front runners.
 
Do we REALLY need another Texas team (Houston)? If we are going to expand and expand westward, get CSU/BYU, while getting UCF and Memphis/Cinci.

Been a lot more talk here in the SLC area among BYU fans that they are hearing chatter from Big 12 representatives. That they are going to expand to at least two additional schools and eventually two more to go to 14.
 
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Rootmaster said:
http://www.frogsowar.com/2016/6/6/11860950/big-12-expansion-its-down-to-byu-houston-and-cincinnati

I would think it comes down to Cincinnati to fulfill WVU need for someone closer as a rival...and my bet...BYU for national base. If that happens late in the Summer then the BYU-WVU game takes on a whole new perspective.
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I like Houston and Cinn, but I still think UCONN is a sleeper. In SEC, how sexy is it when other members
play Vanderbilt or Kentucky, plus their head to head game? In ACC, same question with Wake Forest,
Boston College, and might even throw Pitt in that class. In the BIG, Rutgers, Maryland, Northwestern,
and, to a certain extent Illinois. Pac 12, how exciting is it with Colorado ? Washington State only
relevant because of style of play.
 
I'd say over the past few months every school larger than Fairmont State has been mentioned as a Big 12 possibility. Really? They have a championship game without expanding, which will bring in another $20 million to go with the $300 million + already coming in. Do you have to get to a billion $$$ before you quit adding to the money pile?
 
Cuyahoga Falls Eers said:
I'd say over the past few months every school larger than Fairmont State has been mentioned as a Big 12 possibility. Really? They have a championship game without expanding, which will bring in another $20 million to go with the $300 million + already coming in. Do you have to get to a billion $$$ before you quit adding to the money pile?
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Well, YES
 
Cuyahoga Falls Eers said:
I'd say over the past few months every school larger than Fairmont State has been mentioned as a Big 12 possibility. Really? They have a championship game without expanding, which will bring in another $20 million to go with the $300 million + already coming in. Do you have to get to a billion $$$ before you quit adding to the money pile?
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Yes and no. Yes, you want as much money as possible. The hang up is that the 10 current schools probably get more money standing pat than adding additional teams.
 
CE4WVU said:
Gotta help with Florida recruiting... get UCF
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Yes! on UCF!! 2nd largest university in the land, great overall facilities with improving academics, Florida location in a hot market, etc., etc., etc. Although I have not previously been a fan of this idea, I've come around and think they make a lot of sense, especially for WVU.
 
I think it's a tossup between Cincy and UCF now that the conference network idea has been shelved. In order for Texas, Larry, and Curly to come around the others would have to accept Houston. That would maintain UT's veto power.

By contract that would give the Big 12 Conference an additional $60 million per year. The new schools could receive partial shares for as long as is agreed to. You don't go from $5 - 10 million to $30 overnight. WVU didn't.
 
michaelwalkerbr said:
I think it's a tossup between Cincy and UCF now that the conference network idea has been shelved. In order for Texas, Larry, and Curly to come around the others would have to accept Houston. That would maintain UT's veto power.

By contract that would give the Big 12 Conference an additional $60 million per year. The new schools could receive partial shares for as long as is agreed to. You don't go from $5 - 10 million to $30 overnight. WVU didn't.
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UCF only mattered when the TV media markets were in place as a basis for the Big12N. Now that a network is off the table, it is about matchups and the total body of work provided by that member. For Cincinnati that is a basketball heritage where UCF has none and is unlikely to have one in our lifetimes. Cincinnati can be competitive in football and really all they have to be is better than Kansas and Iowa State, not high hurdles to be sure.

Cincinnati is going to attract a better coaching staff if it is in the Big12, especially with the money from that affiliation to offset those salaries.

Another thing going for Cincinnati right now is that are a relatively scandal free program.

Cincinnati is a better pick for the Big12 than Rutgers was for the Big Ten.
 
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Charleston Mountie said:
Now that a network is off the table....

Cincinnati is a better pick for the Big12 than Rutgers was for the Big Ten.
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I agree with most of your post (most of which I didn't quote). ...but Rutgers clearly helped the Big 10 money wise because their network is thriving. I'm fairly sure Cincy won't do the same for the Big 12 short term.

I don't think anyone ever thought Rutgers was a high quality addition to the Big Ten for any other reason than location while still meeting their academic (funding) requirements.
 
michaelwalkerbr said:
Excellent points, but how do you avoid Houston for the above stated reasons?
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Houston would be a "done deal" to use an old phrase from this board if it were outside of Texas. If the Texas' administration was more diplomatic in it's interactions on various concerns of the conference such as expansion, I don't think the non-Texas teams would be so against Houston, but none of them want to see Houston in the fold - regardless of the merits of Houston.

TT and TCU will line up behind Texas because that is life in the Longhorn shadow, but Texas only wants Houston because it is another pawn to use against the conference power balance. No one wants Houston for what Houston brings to the table.

Stripping away the emotion of the Houston petition they are not a bad choice, but they are also a bit of a flash in the pan. Their HC is likely to vacate the premises as soon as the next offer comes in and without him, Houston offers nothing that matters in terms of matchups. This is the same thing that is killing UCF and boosting BYU and Cincinnati.

If we had a network going forward, Houston would have a better chance. Right now the only way I see Houston getting in is if Texas grabs them as a voting pawn to hold on to that veto position. The only way they get Houston is if they give up something of equal value and Texas has said no to everything.

This was the same sort of strategy Miami used in the 3 years prior to their exit of the Big East and frankly, I would be happy if Texas took their over sized ego and self-delusion of grandeur and left the conference. There are small but possible chances we would see Nebraska and Colorado return and I would take both of them as a better deal to the loss of Texas.

The Big 12 could then get a network and it has the whole state of Texas to host a channel that does not have the Longhorns on it. Oh, the irony!
 
Houston is currently pre season ranked #14 the only other schools ranked higher than Houston in the Big 12 is Oklahoma and Baylor plus Houston has a 47-19 record the past 5 years.
 
There isn't going to be any Big XII expansion with any school not already in a P5 conference and that's not happening for a while til the SEC & B1G decide to expand and the dominos fall.

This stuff about these G5 schools to the Big XII is click bait and summer filler. What part of Texas ain't going for it don't you get? There's at least 3 Big XII schools that don't want it. God Bless Texas!
 
Texas wanted Houston and still does if any expansion occurs. Billionaire backers from both UT and UH were public about it. You cannot value the quality of a potential addition purely on which level of conference they come from. There are several power 5 conference schools that do not belong there. There are also a few group of 5 schools that do.

If two teams are added, Texas needs to 'own' one of them to maintain veto power, it's that simple. UH satisfies that criteria.
 
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lol - it took less than a week for this garbage to resurface - what part of no expansion isn't clear - the championship game was the compromise so that Ok gets more money and texas gets no more b12 teams

i guess its just something to keep this board talking - definitely better than 5150 still holding his grudge but not much better
 
michaelwalkerbr said:
Texas wanted Houston and still does if any expansion occurs. Billionaire backers from both UT and UH were public about it. You cannot value the quality of a potential addition purely on which level of conference they come from. There are several power 5 conference schools that do not belong there. There are also a few group of 5 schools that do.

If two teams are added, Texas needs to 'own' one of them to maintain veto power, it's that simple. UH satisfies that criteria.
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One guy Red McCombs, who is the same old white loud mouth who criticized Texas hiring Charlie Strong (to only later have to apologize for making an arse of himself), is the only Texas booster calling for Houston to be added. The thing about Texas is they got another 100+ boosters like Red McCombs who give just as much $$$$ and keep their $0.02 private.

This guy Red McComb's desires on expansion in the Big XII Doesn't matter just as the supporters for the other G5 schools like Fed Ex don't matter. These G5 options don't make the Big XII better financially or image wise. Give it up, Texas ain't going for this crap and if it happens like a shotgun wedding, they will leave.
 
3xWVUenginEER said:
One guy Red McCombs, who is the same old white loud mouth who criticized Texas hiring Charlie Strong, is the only Texas booster calling for Houston. The thing about Texas is they got another 100+ boosters like Red McCombs who give just as much $$$$ and keep their $0.02 private.

This guy Red McComb's desires on expansion in the Big XII Doesn't matter just as the supporters for the other G5 schools like Fed Ex don't matter. These G5 options don't make the Big XII better financially or image wise.
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I'm sorry, I didn't realize you had access to the meetings and the results of the studies. Having once been a sports writer, I still know how to access those who do. I guess they lied to me. Retirees get no respect, even the writers here tend to ignore my questions!
 
michaelwalkerbr said:
I'm sorry, I didn't realize you had access to the meetings and the results of the studies. Having once been a sports writer, I still know how to access those who do. I guess they lied to me. Retirees get no respect, even the writers here tend to ignore my questions!
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You may have been lied to. I don't know that. Newspaper people don't know a lot or not near what they once did. It's why newspapers are all going broke and out of business.

Btw You don't have to apologize to me, but dont ever question me again. Psst its sarcasm
 
Well played.

I dont do ' in most instances because its just how I do what I do.

It's just I'll never see why adding G5s to the best conference WVU has ever been in, when they dilute it, as a good thing. I'm not for messing up the toughest & best football schedules WVU has ever played. These G5s do that and make my season tickets a lot less valuable. Plus it's not like these schools EVER travel or came to WVU games in the past (concerning cincinnati, UConn, Directional Florida 1 or 2).
 
While none of the G5 schools would be favored to come in and win the Big 12 immediately or even soon, is that really what you want? You do not want another Kansas or Iowa State, but a 'middle of the conference' school or two would be nice. Especially with two divisions and a CCG. Does Alabama only play top 20 schools in their conference? Look at the B1G. I submit Iowa to back my case.

Why does 80% of the conference schedule have to be murderer's row? Did Rutgers and Maryland hurt the image of the B1G? Not all power 5 schools are equal.
 
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Keep it apples and apple, not apples and rotten tomatoes. Maryland & Rutgers brought in more TV $$$$$ due to the B1G network and its contract with providers. Whether a subscriber in a state with a B1G school in it gets the B1G network or not, the B1G gets $1. Crazy deal, but true.

As for image, Both Maryland & Rutgers are also the undisputed, unequivocal Land Grant University of their State. That matters. These G5 options are not even close to any of that. They're not even the top option or second option in the city that bares their name.

As for why I want the best & toughest schedule (80% tough as hell), I'm paying for the season tickets and I like the value and interest. I was NOT interested during a lot of games in Big East version 2.0. Then I went to the away venues and got even more unimpressed. UConn is the least impressive football fanbase I've ever seen. Cincinnati is a Reds town and college football means tOSU there. I've only been to Memphis for the liberty bowl. I do know unless an SEC is playing Memphis then it's likely you can have a row or section to yourself.
 
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I used to go to Memphis a lot on business and I was always concerned for my safety. It is surrounded by questionable neighborhoods that makes you wish you were "packing". With that said, there are some very agreeable areas as well, but there is a decided criminal element there that makes you want to pause. Just say'n.
 
dogeered_again said:
I used to go to Memphis a lot on business and I was always concerned for my safety. It is surrounded by questionable neighborhoods that makes you wish you were "packing". With that said, there are some very agreeable areas as well, but there is a decided criminal element there that makes you want to pause. Just say'n.
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Memphis was the #2 most dangerous city over 100,000 last year, only Detroit beat it out.
 
I know I'm in the minority here, but UCF seems like a legitimate candidate. 2nd largest University in the country, fabulous facilities (not-so-much there erector set stadium) but a serious willingness and ability to pay for endless upgrades. In the heart of Florida.... great destination and East Coast. Their program would only upgrade and thrive in a better conference. I never gave them so much as a "yawn" before, but I think this is a good investment in our conference.
 
dogeered_again said:
So you know I'm not making this up! I was going to compare them to Detroit but didn't have the stats to do that. Thank you.
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Let's not forget Chicago! But then again I drove a police car into Washington DC with another cop and we both locked our doors. I get your point, dogeered_again. I pretty much agree with it. If UCF gets an offer, it will be UCF and Houston. That keeps Texas happy.
 
dogeered_again said:
I used to go to Memphis a lot on business and I was always concerned for my safety. It is surrounded by questionable neighborhoods that makes you wish you were "packing". With that said, there are some very agreeable areas as well, but there is a decided criminal element there that makes you want to pause. Just say'n.
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I lived in Memphis for a year. My wife was always afraid to leave the house and we lived in the nice neighborhood. There was a multiple homeside across the street from where we lived, Car Jacking (murder) was rampant, and we saw two gang related attacks
 
Charleston Mountie said:
UCF only mattered when the TV media markets were in place as a basis for the Big12N. Now that a network is off the table, it is about matchups and the total body of work provided by that member. For Cincinnati that is a basketball heritage where UCF has none and is unlikely to have one in our lifetimes. Cincinnati can be competitive in football and really all they have to be is better than Kansas and Iowa State, not high hurdles to be sure.

Cincinnati is going to attract a better coaching staff if it is in the Big12, especially with the money from that affiliation to offset those salaries.

Another thing going for Cincinnati right now is that are a relatively scandal free program.

Cincinnati is a better pick for the Big12 than Rutgers was for the Big Ten.
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I agree with all of that. UC has shown they can get it done in football and their hoops has some real history and tradition. A good fit for the B12 if we decide to expand...in my opinion.
 
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ColoradoMountaineer said:
Another Big 12 expansion article with no credible sources to back up its claims. Im sure there will be a new one in the next few days with different schools listed as the front runners.
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Uh ... the writer, very near the beginning of the piece started a sentence with these words: "Reading between the lines ..."

Get it? He made it very clear that he was engaging in speculation. There is no basis to bash him as "making claims" because he made no claims other than to merely offer his opinion on the way things stand.

I stand with the OP. I think it was a good read on the subject.
 
dogeered_again said:
I know I'm in the minority here, but UCF seems like a legitimate candidate. 2nd largest University in the country, fabulous facilities (not-so-much there erector set stadium) but a serious willingness and ability to pay for endless upgrades. In the heart of Florida.... great destination and East Coast. Their program would only upgrade and thrive in a better conference. I never gave them so much as a "yawn" before, but I think this is a good investment in our conference.
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I've been beating that drum for at least a year. Easily the best non-P5 school choice right now....and it's not even close. Bigger TV market, better recruiting, largest enrollment (therefore $$ to spend on upgrades) and very recent sustained success (until last year) in football.

My option was to just bring them in. Keep the RR format. Build them up and then hopefully expand again when the GOR comes up.
 
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