You mean a legal wire tap of someone under FISA that picks up someone not under investigation? I bet that never happens does it?
Getting interesting. Nunes: Trump transition team under surveillance
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What is the difference? Legal or not it is a wire tap.
If a US citizen other than the target of a FISA warrant is picked up on a wiretap their words are to be transcribed but their names are masked.
Trump fired Flynn because he lied to Pence? Transition figure and NSA post for two weeks fired for first mistake? I mean, it must have been a mistake right? Because he is so moral.
It's very different because Trump (or his people) were not the subject of the wiretap.....like Trump indicated. Trumps tweets were NOT about the leak....they were about the action BY OBAMA directly on him!
If calls from the tower were tapped, for whatever reason, by our government then Trump is right that Obama tapped them.
Deep state,
so if your crack dealer is wiretapped, and you call him asking for your daily rock fix. Did the DEA wiretap your house?
Link
FISA Section 702 is a critical legal authority that allows the government to target the
communications of foreigners outside the United States. It is not bulk collection and cannot be used to target Americans.
For example, the government could use FISA Section 702 to obtain the e-mails or phone calls of an ISIL member in Syria who is plotting an attack. The government cannot use FISA Section 702 to target the e-mails or phone calls of any American.
The government can only use FISA Section 702 with the approval of the Foreign Intelligence
Surveillance Court.
o The Court must approve “targeting procedures” to ensure that the government only targets the communications of foreigners outside the United States.
o The Court must also approve “minimization procedures” to ensure the government removes
incidentally collected information about Americans.
Your answer is an emphatic no, or executive is breaking the law.
Oh I get it. Once an American calls....the agency must immediately shut down the collection? Without knowing at all if the person NOT TARGETED is in fact American....if they sound American....they must shut it down. Right?
The agency must anticipate if a call or email is from an American PRIOR to recording the interaction with a legally approved target? Makes perfect sense
I understand that, but trumps transition team was picked up during that surveillance and their names were illegally disseminated and leaked to the media. Felonies were committed. That seems to be the fact. Once again, Trump eas wrong when he said that Obama ordered the wiretap. He was not wrong when he said that his team was surveilled. Remember again, both the Washington Post and the New York Times reported that surveillance.
Question for me is: why leak? Liberal deep state attempt to delegitimize the Trump administration? Or someone trying to get a dangerous man out of a very dangerous position?
You know, TH, as much as you.....and PATX and dave and Priddy and bornan and DvlDog and the other jackboots down there fighting for the single seat at the very top of the rightfield foul pole.....continuously claim to dislike/disrespect/whatever Trump, it's borderline amazing how much time (and how many posts) you spend defending him with your cyber-lives..
Of course, as I've been saying for months now, there's nothing in your (and the others) lives more distasteful than playing defense.. At least the Left wingers around here never tried to hide their affection for their guy; aside neilmont and 82 (and maybe atl), you guys spend pretty much everyday of your lives around here trying to convince folks you don't like Trump.....while simultaneously wiping his ass every time each of you bend over.
Keep it up; it's really fun watching you guys dance a jig every time Trump opens his mouth.(or touches a keyboard, or picks up a smartphone).
How about Manafort? That doesn't bother you? Campaign chair.....now the administrative lying about the level of involvement in the campaign?
PAX do you honestly believe anyone in the Obama administration wants the names "unmasked" of whoever ordered that surveillance on Trump and who released those names scooped up in the process?
The media will try to claim Trump is "impeding" the FBI investigation to shield his own administration...of course everyone forgets he's the one who first made the charge that everyone on the Left ridiculed him for and claimed was "fake news".
Now let's see if the Media is as aggressive tracking down the leakers and who ordered Trump be placed "under surveillance" as they were trying to prove Trump was having secret meetings with Russians over how to steal the election from Hillary?
Don't hold your breath.
A illegal leak like this is dangerous on so many levels. Follow this logic. FISA is very controversial. It allows an American to be caught up in a conversation without any role in the matter. That is why the law requires that person's name to be redacted and masked. It is to protect them and follow the Constitution. Those who believe in FISA do so because they believe it protects the country from terrorism or any other harm. If the people lose confidence in FISA, it may be voted down next time and people can die. How do you think the FBI has been able to stop so many terror attacks before they occurred? FISA played a big role, imo.
You appear to condone the committing of felonies. Are there other felonies you like as well? My guess is that felonies are ok with you as long as they hurt a person you don't like. Thank God, our Founders were much, much wiser than. you.
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The media will cover this up to the maximum extent possible. Many will see this as vindication of what Trump said. So the media will cover it, but in the most negative way possible.
Yes, they will "lie with the Truth" as they are so expert at doing, because they are corrupt to their core.
I believe Flynn has done far more for this country than you will ever do. He made a mistake and lied to our VP. That is unacceptable. You can't mislead Pence and keep your job. You have lost his trust and that is unacceptable.
What did he do either inside the Trump campaign or outside of it that was illegal boom? I'm still waiting for someone on the Left to tell me what crimes have been committed or are being investigated?
The one we do know about (leaking of classified investigative information gathered from an unsuspecting and presumed innocent American during a warranted FISA inquiry) the Left has no "concern" over. Huh, what?
It's only Trump's ties to Russians, and his attempts to work with them to steer votes away from Hillary that must be investigated don't you know?
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since I was tagged in this post I find it amusing how deftly it avoided the central point of the OP (TarHeelEER). Notice how all he did was post the intent and actual wording of the FISA statute, which in this case was clearly violated. By whom we hopefully will soon find out, but there was no defense of the willful violation of US Law in the response to the OP from Cool MAN. Only dismissive accusations, suppositions, and non factual pronouncements to cover up for lack of any fact based, reasonable, Truthful response to the OP's main point...Laws were violated, and someone violated them.
Typical of the vapidity from the Left when faced with factual data that shatters their pre-conceived prefabricated lies. In this case, Trump was 'colluding' with Russians to steal or influence election results from Hillary.
That myth gets all of the attention from the Media and the Left, while the actual Law breaking and who did it is ignored because it doesn't fit "the agenda" or "the narrative" that's been created.
Twilight zone stuff
If this post doesn't sum up the exact situation within the left over the last 8 year, I don't know what will.
By your post, you clearly don't understand separating person from policy. Which, as I said, pretty much sums up the love affair of the last 8 years.
The funny thing is that I liked Obama but did not like his policies. Conversely, I can't stand Trump, just listening to him speak angers me, let alone his asinine tweeting. I do however, thus far, like the majority of policy decisions he has made.
Really? What a waste of words. Big difference in pointing out someones quirks and missteps than bending over on call like some of you do. You can have Hillary....I'll take Trump over the bitch any day.
That vote for Trump for me at least, didn't take me 2 seconds to think about when she was the "other choice".
Trump was on the bottom of my Republican list for many of the things you've said in the past about him DvlDog4WVU, but I have to admit he has surprised me with many of his policy positions, and compared to Hillary he's the difference between an extreme makeover "before" and "after" pic.
That vote for Trump for me at least, didn't take me 2 seconds to think about when she was the "other choice".
Trump was on the bottom of my Republican list for many of the things you've said in the past about him DvlDog4WVU, but I have to admit he has surprised me with many of his policy positions, and compared to Hillary he's the difference between an extreme makeover "before" and "after" pic.
I am the same with you. Trump was last on my list of 17, but easily number 1 compared to Hillary. I personally dislike Trump but do like most of his policy positions.
Correct me if I'm wrong but a law enforcement agency can get a warrant to wiretap any American they please, if sufficient evidence is presented to constitute the warrant? So.....I really don't understand what was wrong with the incidental collection.
The leaks? Sure....bust em....lock them up. I wouldn't argue against it. I just know without leaks, many wrongdoings in DC wouldn't be uncovered.
So not intentionally piling on, but will. Even in this thread, I said send those guilty to jail. Fry them all. But I will take aim at all the leftists thinking they're above the law. That the ends justify the means. That breaking little laws here and there are no big thing, as long as the liberal utopia gets created (and destroys this country).
You won't see me defending Trump directly anywhere, other than to point out where libs are screwing up with their narration. Get him impeached, please do. Pence is more along my lines of thinking.
Paxx, you are really some kind of a twitchy cat. Maybe Flynn is a beacon of American morality? All I know is the hardware doesn't ensure morality.
That's easy for me to answer boom. If your whole Life's existence is wrapped up in the protection, promotion, and praise of Leviathan and a guy like Trump comes along promising to dismantle most if not all of it (including your job) you wouldn't try to stop him from doing that?
Think about it.
What does that have to do with the liberal political landscape of today? Hillary's non-secure server with classified documents on it? No big deal. Someone leaking out opposition intelligence with names on it, breaking half the bill of rights? who cares. It doesn't matter, as long as we win the political game.
This is only partially true boom. Yes there must be at least a reasonable suspicion that crimes were/have been committed in order for a warrant to be issued. However as TarHeelEEr pointed out in his post earlier in this thread, that FISA warrant has specific limits and is granted only under certain conditions. It is designed to "protect" Americans from unwarranted snooping. In this case, not only was the Spirit of the Law violated, but the letter of it too (with the leaks)
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It's sounding like someone in the prior administration thought it would be a slam dunk that Trump was a traitor, and they were going to go to all lengths to ensure he was nailed. The Republican Party would go down with him. Well, it's not looking like as much of a slam dunk anymore, and someone is going to get caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
