Comprehensive Improvement updates

[Buckaineer]

Even with a network, I doubt the BIG12 will be able to keep up with the B1G or SEC. The question is, would the BIG12 settle for having the 3rd highest revenue sharing per school ahead of the PAC, and ACC?

With a network and CCG the BIG 12 should be able to keep up very close. They will also get a new t.v. contract and possibly a look-in which should be adjusted since the market has been reset via the b10 contract and that should help greatly as well. The SEC is going to be behind the Big Ten and we aren't hearing anyone wonder if that will tear them up. The Big Ten is getting a new deal- not the SEC which is locked through 2034.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

Would you believe ESPN's Brett McMurphy and the ESPN website? His article talks about the ACC GOR but also says,"The ACC becomes the fourth league with a grant of rights, along with the Big Ten, Pac-12 and Big 12. The SEC is the only conference among the "power five" leagues that does not have a grant of rights."

The article is date April 24, 2013. If you Google, Bing or whatever search engine for an SEC grant of rights or GOR you will find nothing because there is none.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

If once the data is fully distributed and everyone has vetted the candidates-schools still vote against-that would be signaling trouble. That would mean some do not have the best interests of the conference in mind.

None of these issues are "short term". The BIG 12 is going to begin falling behind the Big Ten and to a lesser degree the SEC. After the contracts though in 2025? The commisioner says if nothing is done the conference could be $20 million behind. That isn't survivable so doing nothing is not an option.

Also, the conference needs to eliminate its disadvantages in making the playoff--it can't miss out on multiple years because of a lack of a CCG.

Everyone is behind the Big Ten, even the SEC and the rest of us are behind the SEC. That is not going to change no matter what is done. The rest of the conferences need to come to that realization before making future plans. The SEC has the only hope of drawing even with the Big Ten if they complete their expansion to 16 with 2 top shelf university and there are few of them that fit the bill for the SEC. Undoubtedly, UVA and UNC but they also fit the bill for the Big Ten; I suggest a race is underway to see who can cross those finish lines first between the Big Ten and the SEC.

If the Big Ten wins that race, not even the vaunted SEC can equal the Big Ten, now or in the future. If the SEC can snag them first then they can hold parity with the Big Ten no matter who else the Big Ten might land on as numbers 15 and 16.

The ACC, Pac-12 and Big-12 are all second tier to the Big Two and is going to remain that way regardless of what is done.

But...

This is the question, how rich does a conference need to be to be considered a success. The Big-12 at present is the third best paid with the Pac-12 behind us and the ACC bringing up a distant rear. Do we need more money than we have right now? WVU is bring in 30 million and the Big ten is going to bring in ~45 million. When you get to this level of richness does 15 million really matter?

I know the easy rebuff is to scoff at the question but think about it, what would a university like WVU do with that money, the WVU AD already transfers money back into the university, more coming in is more to move to the university proper.

I am not even sure the Big12 needs a network, if WVU sitting on an island can be the second highest paid for its Tier 3 rights as a new comer to a conference then the rest are just not good at their jobs. Shame on them for being lazy. If everyone ins the Big-12 was pulling in 5+ million per year, that would equal what the SEC brings in with a network. As it is, the remainder averages ~3 million which is better than what the Pac-12 members are getting on average.

Of course the ACC members get zilch, sucks to be them, but a conference gets the leadership it deserves.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

Many people have said the SEC has no GOR. I said I'm not aware of anyone doing an FOI search for theirs , the ACCs, the Big Tens or the PAC 12s. People have said they've searched for the BIG 12s and some have even posted the same. Never saw one poster or blogger ever present the Big Tens, PAC 12s or ACCs or claim they look ed into the SECs . An article stating they don't have one from around when their network was being created doesn't prove they were not put under one when the network was enacted. Again, who has checked to see? Writers state things that aren't true all the time.

Wow, that is a shame, you can't even admit when you are wrong.

This is what your originally said

If someone looked into it, wonder if it might be discovered that the SEC does have a grant of rights. ESPN made an enormous financial commitment to that conference, basically converted ESPNU to the SECnetwork and investing huge sums to not only get that up and running and operating on a daily basis, but also converting much of their regular slots on ESPN platforms to SEC only coverage. Hard to imagine that ESPN basically turned over their coverage of college athletics to the SEC (which if you ever watch any ESPN channels now, they did) for no guarantees of membership--just a "its so nice to be in the SEC no one would ever leave" hope.

I just brought up with all the FOI's there is no way this is not public knowledge.

If you think there have been no FOI's placed on public SEC schools regarding contract/network/GOR information, you are either Naive, have a desperate need to continue spinning things to meet your on going narrative, or just want to argue even if you know you are wrong. And please don't give me that bla bla bla, where am I wrong.......

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

With a network and CCG the BIG 12 should be able to keep up very close. They will also get a new t.v. contract and possibly a look-in which should be adjusted since the market has been reset via the b10 contract and that should help greatly as well. The SEC is going to be behind the Big Ten and we aren't hearing anyone wonder if that will tear them up. The Big Ten is getting a new deal- not the SEC which is locked through 2034.

For whatever reason, the networks believe the B1G product is worth so much more than other brands. Since it is all about football, personally I would think the SEC is a bigger brand. Maybe it is the B1G, territory that makes the network assume it is that much more valuable, but the SEC is in Fla and Texas which are arguably 2 of the top three markets. Not to mention GA, which is also in the top 10

We have been told the BIG12 allows for prorata share for any 2 programs added to the league, so even if there is an additional look in clause, the networks are not going to pony additional money above and beyond.

 

[Buckaineer]

For whatever reason, the networks believe the B1G product is worth so much more than other brands. Since it is all about football, personally I would think the SEC is a bigger brand. Maybe it is the B1G, territory that makes the network assume it is that much more valuable, but the SEC is in Fla and Texas which are arguably 2 of the top three markets. Not to mention GA, which is also in the top 10

We have been told the BIG12 allows for prorata share for any 2 programs added to the league, so even if there is an additional look in clause, the networks are not going to pony additional money above and beyond.

Pro rata shares for expansion candidates doesn't have anything to do with look- ins which is a way for conferences to make sure their long term contracts remain competitive. Will not be surprised to see the BIG 12, SEC, ACC and PAC 12 try to reopen their deals in the next few years if the Big Tens numbers are way out of line- their ratings are good but not that much better outside of top games.

SEC has decent fan support but are mostly in rural areas whereas Big Ten schools command lots of large major markets in the Midwest and now Northeast. Advertisers like that a lot. After being pushed by the networks for so long now and maximizing their value via the BTN, they are the revenue kings despite not being great on the field top to bottom.

 

[Buckaineer]

Wow, that is a shame, you can't even admit when you are wrong.

This is what your originally said

If someone looked into it, wonder if it might be discovered that the SEC does have a grant of rights. ESPN made an enormous financial commitment to that conference, basically converted ESPNU to the SECnetwork and investing huge sums to not only get that up and running and operating on a daily basis, but also converting much of their regular slots on ESPN platforms to SEC only coverage. Hard to imagine that ESPN basically turned over their coverage of college athletics to the SEC (which if you ever watch any ESPN channels now, they did) for no guarantees of membership--just a "its so nice to be in the SEC no one would ever leave" hope.

I just brought up with all the FOI's there is no way this is not public knowledge.

If you think there have been no FOI's placed on public SEC schools regarding contract/network/GOR information, you are either Naive, have a desperate need to continue spinning things to meet your on going narrative, or just want to argue even if you know you are wrong. And please don't give me that bla bla bla, where am I wrong.......

You have serious issues. On the one hand you have 0 proof or even the remotest evidence that anyone has put in an FOI request searching for a grant of rights from the SEC. On the other you try to attack me because I stated accurately no one from message boards to bloggers to anywhere else has ever A: shown any interest whatsoever in an SEC grant of rights possibility- instead just going along with the "they don't need one" line, and B: Never demonstrated in any way that someone has actually checked to see if that is accurate.

You cannot say they have one or don't, you can only repeat what someone that hasn't actually checked stated. As I stated - and there is nothing out of line in the questioning whatsoever, it would be surprising for a major entity like ESPN to turn over so much of their operation to one conference, and to guarantee that conference extremely lucrative revenues long term--all without any sort of guarantee that the product would remain as is during the duration. GORs have been used everywhere else to provide that. Until anyone actually checks on the sketchy details of the last SEC contracts no one can claim they absolutely do not have one. Only that it's believed they don't with no evidence supporting or contradicting.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

You have serious issues. On the one hand you have 0 proof or even the remotest evidence that anyone has put in an FOI request searching for a grant of rights from the SEC. On the other you try to attack me because I stated accurately no one from message boards to bloggers to anywhere else has ever A: shown any interest whatsoever in an SEC grant of rights possibility- instead just going along with the "they don't need one" line, and B: Never demonstrated in any way that someone has actually checked to see if that is accurate.

You cannot say they have one or don't, you can only repeat what someone that hasn't actually checked stated. As I stated - and there is nothing out of line in the questioning whatsoever, it would be surprising for a major entity like ESPN to turn over so much of their operation to one conference, and to guarantee that conference extremely lucrative revenues long term--all without any sort of guarantee that the product would remain as is during the duration. GORs have been used everywhere else to provide that. Until anyone actually checks on the sketchy details of the last SEC contracts no one can claim they absolutely do not have one. Only that it's believed they don't with no evidence supporting or contradicting.

As I said it is one of the three.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

The SEC doesn't have an exit fee either, what they do have is the SECN which is growing very well along with the prestige of the conference itself. I live in the middle of Gamecock country and their position is this: If you don't like the SEC, get the hell out. I've done FOIA requests before when is was related to something I cared about and received the info I asked for and not one sentence more.

I accept ESPN's statement that the SEC has no GOR and that settles it for me. I'm a WVU and Big 12 fan and I don't really care about the SEC. If I were a Gamecock fan and suspected ESPN was lying I would have already clarified it through the University of South Carolina keeper of records. I do know there is no such thing within the USC website search. They are not hiding it, there is no such document. Pursue it if matters to you.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

The SEC doesn't have an exit fee either, what they do have is the SECN which is growing very well along with the prestige of the conference itself. I live in the middle of Gamecock country and their position is this: If you don't like the SEC, get the hell out. I've done FOIA requests before when is was related to something I cared about and received the info I asked for and not one sentence more.

I accept ESPN's statement that the SEC has no GOR and that settles it for me. I'm a WVU and Big 12 fan and I don't really care about the SEC. If I were a Gamecock fan and suspected ESPN was lying I would have already clarified it through the University of South Carolina keeper of records. I do know there is no such thing within the USC website search. They are not hiding it, there is no such document. Pursue it if matters to you.

You are correct, the SEC has no GoR or indeed any language barring an exit at any time for any reason. The SECN media contract does not refer to a number of teams or list any by name, just the conference. If the SEC expands and wants to get more money it can because no broadcaster is going to anger a cash cow.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

The SEC doesn't have an exit fee either, what they do have is the SECN which is growing very well along with the prestige of the conference itself. I live in the middle of Gamecock country and their position is this: If you don't like the SEC, get the hell out. I've done FOIA requests before when is was related to something I cared about and received the info I asked for and not one sentence more.

I accept ESPN's statement that the SEC has no GOR and that settles it for me. I'm a WVU and Big 12 fan and I don't really care about the SEC. If I were a Gamecock fan and suspected ESPN was lying I would have already clarified it through the University of South Carolina keeper of records. I do know there is no such thing within the USC website search. They are not hiding it, there is no such document. Pursue it if matters to you.

Mike, Living in gamecock territory explains a great deal about you. :wink: I live here as well and fell your pain.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

Mike, Living in gamecock territory explains a great deal about you. :wink: I live here as well and fell your pain.

I really miss WV. The in state population may be 1.8 million, but the 'still a Mountaineer' population must be double that, scattered across the US. Their are thousands of them in the Charlotte area alone.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

I really miss WV. The in state population may be 1.8 million, but the 'still a Mountaineer' population must be double that, scattered across the US. Their are thousands of them in the Charlotte area alone.

I saw a study once that used the West Virginia birth rate and rate of annual exodus in conjuction with the static population growth and the project was that 4 times as many people of West Virginia birth live outside the state compared to the number in residence. That implies that there are just over 9 million West Virginians at any given time with only 1.8 million in the state.

I have lived all over the country and I have run into West Virginians that lived in my neighborhood. All of the states surrounding West Virginia have huge populations of Mountaineers and Florida is like a second home. So I can believe that number of 9 million. That goes along way in explaining the branding rights and TV-ratings of WVU.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

I agree. WVU fans have such a good reputation for travelling to see the team, and I'm sure that's true. But half the Mountaineer fans at away games are already there, sometimes more.

 

[BobbyBoucheer]

I saw a study once that used the West Virginia birth rate and rate of annual exodus in conjuction with the static population growth and the project was that 4 times as many people of West Virginia birth live outside the state compared to the number in residence. That implies that there are just over 9 million West Virginians at any given time with only 1.8 million in the state.

I have lived all over the country and I have run into West Virginians that lived in my neighborhood. All of the states surrounding West Virginia have huge populations of Mountaineers and Florida is like a second home. So I can believe that number of 9 million. That goes along way in explaining the branding rights and TV-ratings of WVU.

There are a whole bunch of ex-wvians living in the Mytle Beach are too.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

I really miss WV. The in state population may be 1.8 million, but the 'still a Mountaineer' population must be double that, scattered across the US. Their are thousands of them in the Charlotte area alone.

My wife keeps telling me she wants to move back. She hates the cold do I don't believe her