Comprehensive Improvement updates

[skygusty]

I think Texas and OU might be just a little bit delusional. Why would you go from being a Big Fish in a smaller pond to being a medium fish in a bigger pond. Let's say OU leaves to go to the SEC. They then compete against Alabama, LSU, Georgia, Florida, who are arguably just as good as programs as Oklahoma. Same with Texas if they went to say the Big10 then they compete with Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State. Oklahoma and Texas are both elite programs but it's been 10+ years since either won a National Championship in football. It's ego both see themselves as Alabama and they are not. Ask Nebraska how that move to the Big10 has paid off. Obviously well for money but personally I would rather have success and a little less money than tons more money and less success. The thing that worries me most is Oklahoma wants 1 thing and Texas wants something completely different. I don't see Oklahoma doing any favors for Texas or Texas doing what Oklahoma wants. I'm worried WVU's status will be determined by Texas and OUs rivalry and be caught in the middle. If both leave more will leave than just those 2 and the Big12 dies. What does WVU do then?

WVU fans are spectators in all this. WVU prez and admins may have to choose, at their peril, between siding with Oklahoma or Texas. I think an unhappy Texas is worse for WVU long term than an unhappy Oklahoma but that is just speculation. WVU would have the options of whatever is left of the BIG12, CUSA and the AAC if those two go away.

 

[Buckaineer]

Sports Day Dallas sums up the current situation nicely:

excerpt:

Carlton: Expansion, title games, the Longhorn Network; what factors into the future of the Big 12?
Many questions need to be answered, both internally and by the Big 12's TV consultants when the conference ADs and board of governors (presidents and chancellors) meet in Las Colinas from May 31 to June 3.

For now, the Big 12 seems serious about trying to shed its dysfunctional image. While the Big 12 seems to study the landscape more than anyone since Ansel Adams, this exercise is a good thing - regardless of where it leads.

"If the Big 12 is going to get its act together, the opportunity is now," said one industry source familiar with the process.

The composition (read: expansion) committee will talk twice by phone before Irving, commissioner Bob Bowlsby said, with the board of governors also meeting by phone.

Keep these factors in mind as the Big 12 ponders its future:


TV projections
The focus was on Navigate Research in Phoenix and its presentation that expansion and a title game would enhance the Big 12's chances of making the college football playoff. While Navigate will also be in Las Colinas, another significant presentation will be delivered by TV consultants Bevilacqua Helfant Ventures (BHV).

BHV has been testing the waters on conference TV network and what a new Big 12 TV deal would be worth if it expands and extends its current deal that runs through 2024-25.

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/col...-games-longhorn-network-factors-future-big-12

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers]

Simple solution: Big 12 teams play top tier teams in other Power 5 conferences. So if Big 12 champ has beaten another Power 5 conference champ or even runnerup, the Big 12 champ is in. Can't argue with head-to-head outcomes. Baylor, you listening? WVU plays BYU and Missouri this year, played Alabama, etc. Oklahoma played Tennessee, and that victory helped Sooners get into national playoffs. 9 Big 12 victories and a 10th victory over the 1st or 2nd place team in a Power 5 conference should do it.

 

[Buckaineer]

Here's the latest from Boren today via Jake Trotter-twitter

Jake Trotter ‏ @ Jake_Trotter 4h 4 hours ago

Big takeaway here: Boren pinning a lot on a conference network being lucrative for the Big 12, hoping it can solve LHN issue. We’ll see...


Jake Trotter ‏ @ Jake_Trotter 4h 4 hours ago
Boren: "I don’t think I’d go cast a vote my regents were (vehemently) opposed to."

2 retweets5 likes


Jake Trotter ‏ @ Jake_Trotter PM - 12 May 2016" class="tweet-timestamp js-permalink js-nav js-tooltip"> 4h 4 hours ago
Boren: "My hunch is that a Big 12 network might be very advantageous to the entire conference. But my hunch might be wrong."


Jake Trotter ‏ @ Jake_Trotter 5h 5 hours ago
Boren says he’d ideally like to see a vote on expansion, network “by the end of the year.” A timeline echoed by others.


Jake Trotter ‏ @ Jake_Trotter 5h 5 hours ago
"This has to be the kind of decision that has to be reached by consensus.” Boren suggesting it will have to be a 10-0 vote.

6 retweets8 likes



Jake Trotter ‏ @ Jake_Trotter 5h 5 hours ago
Boren: "In practicality, you need everybody” on board in order to more forward on these big issues. “The consensus could be to do nothing."

3 retweets4 likes


Jake Trotter ‏ @ Jake_Trotter 5h 5 hours ago
Boren: "You have to devise a revenue distribution that lets (Texas) get paid back” for giving up the $ in the LHN.


Jake Trotter ‏ @ Jake_Trotter 5h 5 hours ago
Boren: "I personally don’t have any (expansion) candidates."


Jake Trotter Retweeted
George Schroeder ‏ @ GeorgeSchroeder 5h 5 hours ago
. @ UofOklahoma president David Boren says there’s “no distance between” him and the Board of Regents on the relevant issues.

4 retweets2 likes

Jake Trotter ‏ @ Jake_Trotter 5h 5 hours ago
Boren says he’s received materials form 25 schools regarding expansion. “There’s a lot of interest in this conference."


Jake Trotter ‏ @ Jake_Trotter 5h 5 hours ago
Boren: “If you’re going to have a network, you’re probably going to have 12 or 14 members” to have enough content.

 

[Buckaineer]

John Shinn ‏@john_shinn
Boren: the question about expansion is premature. We need to decide if we're going to have a Big 12 network. #Sooners

 

[Buckaineer]

A little more from Boren and ESPN:

excerpt:

Big 12 expansion, network will take 'unified action,' OU president says
"I'm not out to get Texas. If we did something, you've got to make Texas financially whole. You can't expect them to give up $15 million ... unless [they're] compensated for that. Somehow, the conference has to get that $15 million back to them," Boren said. "You've got to devise a revenue distribution that lets them get paid back for the $15 million a year they're giving out. My suspicion is if the revenue figures [that] come out are very high or moderately high, you can afford to make everybody whole and everybody makes money. They'd be making more money than $15 million a year, if it's so advantageous to us financially to create a network. But we don't know the answer to that question yet."

Boren said a conference network could push expansion, to give the conference more content options and TV market possibilities. Boren also said he has heard from roughly 25 schools about joining the Big 12

 

[Buckaineer]

A good article that covers the state of the conference in dealing with the comprehensive improvements :

Where Oklahoma sits in the Big 12 expansion debate

Really good news here:
“Where do we stand on expansion?” Boren said. “It kind of depends on the answer to the first question: Do we want a conference-wide network? Is it advantageous to us?”

and this

Boren also said regardless of what happens, Oklahoma remains committed to the Big 12.

“We’re a member of the Big 12,” he said. “We don’t plan on going anywhere. … We want to help strengthen this (conference) whatever way.”

Asked again later whether Oklahoma was committed to remaining in the Big 12, he said, “We haven’t discussed the possibility (of leaving). We’re optimistic about it. We like the Big 12. We just want it to be as strong as it can be. We haven’t even speculated about it.”

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

A little more from Boren and ESPN:

excerpt:

Big 12 expansion, network will take 'unified action,' OU president says
"I'm not out to get Texas. If we did something, you've got to make Texas financially whole. You can't expect them to give up $15 million ... unless [they're] compensated for that. Somehow, the conference has to get that $15 million back to them," Boren said. "You've got to devise a revenue distribution that lets them get paid back for the $15 million a year they're giving out. My suspicion is if the revenue figures [that] come out are very high or moderately high, you can afford to make everybody whole and everybody makes money. They'd be making more money than $15 million a year, if it's so advantageous to us financially to create a network. But we don't know the answer to that question yet."

Boren said a conference network could push expansion, to give the conference more content options and TV market possibilities. Boren also said he has heard from roughly 25 schools about joining the Big 12

I don't think LHN is all about the money for Texas. It is a major prestige and or Ego that will keep TexA$$ from giving up LHN. They are basically the only P5 program with their own national network.

 

[Buckaineer]

I don't think LHN is all about the money for Texas. It is a major prestige and or Ego that will keep TexA$$ from giving up LHN. They are basically the only P5 program with their own national network.

I think its very early in the process. The BIG 12 hasn't made any sort of proposal to Texas at this point. The analysts are still collecting data and haven't distributed it showing the benefits of a conference network and how much everyone will make. Texas hasn't seen the data and hasn't made any decisions about anything.

If they are "kept whole" financially, theres no way the exposure for UT will be worse than the LHN which very few can actually see or get.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

I think its very early in the process. The BIG 12 hasn't made any sort of proposal to Texas at this point. The analysts are still collecting data and haven't distributed it showing the benefits of a conference network and how much everyone will make. Texas hasn't seen the data and hasn't made any decisions about anything.

If they are "kept whole" financially, theres no way the exposure for UT will be worse than the LHN which very few can actually see or get.

I don't disagree about exposure, but there is no longer the prestige of having their own national network. Remember we are dealing with TexA$$ who has the biggest ego in all of college football.

 

[Buckaineer]

I don't disagree about exposure, but there is no longer the prestige of having their own national network. Remember we are dealing with TexA$$ who has the biggest ego in all of college football.

Its in their best interest as well--none of the members are going to go on for the next decade having a known competitive disadvantage and a growing financial one. It doesn't do Texas any good to be in a league where there conference mates are at such a disadvantage they can't keep up.

Once everyone can sit down and negotiate they'll work something out. There really is no choice.

 

[LowFatMilk]

They'll work something out ?

One man from OK made a couple of comments and you were running around writing about a conference implosion.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

Its in their best interest as well--none of the members are going to go on for the next decade having a known competitive disadvantage and a growing financial one. It doesn't do Texas any good to be in a league where there conference mates are at such a disadvantage they can't keep up.

Once everyone can sit down and negotiate they'll work something out. There really is no choice.

You keep thinking this like TexA$$ gives a chit about the BIG12. It does not matter what happens to the conference they will always have a landing spot in a P5 conference. They still would have to give up LHN, but not until the end or near end of GOR.

 

[Buckaineer]

You keep thinking this like TexA$$ gives a chit about the BIG12. It does not matter what happens to the conference they will always have a landing spot in a P5 conference. They still would have to give up LHN, but not until the end or near end of GOR.

Texas wouldn't be IN the conference if they didn't care to be. They founded the conference. They held the conference together in the last realignment when it was breaking up.

We haven't heard a peep from Texas yet--we've just heard from the message board experts. Most of the message board experts are from OTHER conferences that want Texas -the supposed monster--in THEIR conference.

That should tell everyone all they need to know about that story.

 

[Buckaineer]

They'll work something out ?

One man from OK made a couple of comments and you were running around writing about a conference implosion.

Because that man was the chair of the BOR at Oklahoma. However, Boren quickly showed that he is in charge at Oklahoma and took care of the matter much more repidly than expected.

For certain, if OU doesn't want expansion its a dead issue (and a dead conference).

Luckily for WVU and other schools, not only did Boren straighten out that manufactured mess from those opposed to expansion, he reiterated his desire to create a strong BIG 12 and his determination to keep OU in the conference. No interest or even speculation about going anywhere else. That alone changes everything about the other day.

I'll borrow from "the Dude" or "MHver"--the situation is fluid.

 

[Buckaineer]

Should add p.s. None of that changes that I firmly believe the Pac 12 with the deliberate assistance of the Big Ten, will make a run at Texas, OU and KU in 2023/2024 which makes it critical for the BIG 12 to take care of these issues in the short term. Waiting too long will be too late. If OU goes from 2016 to 2023 at a disadvantage to making playoffs and also falling financially to the SEC and Big Ten because the conference failed to act its over.

 

[LowFatMilk]

Because that man was the chair of the BOR at OK....

For certain, if OU doesn't want expansion its a dead issue (and a dead conference)..

I'm impressed you didn't backtrack (and that's not a backhanded compliment).

Still, you often comment that people like me are against WVU (even though some of us also endorse expansion) while you'll (at times) predict doom and gloom if it doesn't happen. ...then somehow say you're some type of superfan because you refuse to talk 'negative'.

It makes people distrust your pledge of WVU loyalty (aka utopia or you're a traitor) or/and the respect you have for the opinion of others.

 

[Buckaineer]

I'm impressed you didn't backtrack (and that's not a backhanded compliment).

Still, you often comment that people like me are against WVU (even though some of us also endorse expansion) while you'll (at times) predict doom and gloom if it doesn't happen. ...then somehow say you're some type of superfan because you refuse to talk 'negative'.

It makes people distrust your pledge of WVU loyalty (aka utopia or you're a traitor) or/and the respect you have for the opinion of others.

I've commented that SOME people are against the BIG 12 and WVU. If you feel you fit the profile of what I"ve described that is on you not me. I have not singled you out.

I don't have respect for some because they refuse to look at facts and/or be positive about anything. That and they try to quiet anyone that won't go along with their negativity and fantasies.

Instead of jumping to conclusions about what the addition of schools to the BIG 12 (and we all know the schools that are possibilities), the addition of a CCG and the possibilities of a network are, lets see what the facts in the matter are. Not only see, but don't dismiss them because they aren't what you wanted them to be (i.e. the evidence showing disadvantage in making the playoff).

I'm concerned about these things because they'll impact WVU greatly. I'm also concerned that for some reason others are allowed to come to WVU boards and trash everything about WVU and its conference with impunity. Other conferences and their social media outlets don't allow that and not surprisingly they don't have the issues of negativity projected onto them that the BIG 12 does. When I see it I speak up , most do not. Maybe someone that matters will read maybe they wont. I'm just not going to let it go on though because it is wrong and despite what some claim it does impact WVU and the conference WVU is in. People read these things and talk about what people are saying and many believe what is said without question.

 

[Buckaineer]

Excerpt(s):

David Boren says he'll put feelings aside for sake of facts over Big 12's future
NORMAN — University of Oklahoma President David Boren, the most outspoken Big 12 Conference administrator on the future of the league, is ready to let someone else do the talking for a change. Or, more accurately, something.

Numbers.

“I love to do things quickly. I try to be decisive. But there are times you have to say, ‘Let’s gather all the information,’” Boren said following the OU Board of Regents meeting Wednesday. “‘Once we have all the information, let’s make an intelligent decision. The data is going to speak to me.”

“Data” meaning figures and projections scheduled to be presented to Big 12 presidents and athletic directors at their meetings May 31-June 3. Figures and projections gathered by research firms on what a Big 12 Network could bring to a league desperate to keep fiscal pace with the Big Ten and SEC, the “Power 2” among the so-called “Power 5” conferences.

“My hunch is a Big 12 network will be advantageous to everybody in the conference,” Boren said. “But my hunch might be wrong. You have to let the facts change your mind.”



....

“If you’re not going to have a network, you don’t need to have an expansion,” Boren said. “If you are going to have a network, you almost have to have an expansion.

“If you have an expansion and you expand enough to have two divisions, then a championship game makes a lot more sense.”

Regarding expansion, does Boren have a number in mind?

“So far the preliminary answer from the experts is if we are going to have a network, they generally tell us you’re going to have to have 12 or 14 members,” he said, “in order to have enough content for the network.”



Does Boren have any potential schools in mind, among a reported pool including Cincinnati, BYU, Memphis, Houston, Central and South Florida, Connecticut and Colorado State?
“I, personally, don’t have any candidates,” he said.



...Boren also mentioned: “We have another consulting group looking at all these schools — 80, 50, it’s a large number — all the schools that might be available. … How do they rank academically? What’s their research base? Then we want to look at its athletic reputation. What are its strengths, traditions and fan base? Would it add or dilute our athletic strength? Then you add the question of media markets. Are these schools in places that increase the interest in the Big 12 and the viewing audience?”



.....

Would OU be willing to fold its $5 million third-tier deal with FOX into a league-wide network? It depends on the data.

“If it’s a lot of money, it’s worth Texas and OU losing their $15 million a year or $5 million a year,” Boren said.



.....“I know it makes good print to say we want to put it to the University of Texas. That’s not the motivation behind us looking carefully at a Big 12 network,” Boren said. “If we did something, you’ve got to make Texas financially whole. You can’t expect them to give up $15 million, or us to even give up $5 million, unless we’re compensated for that. Some way, the conference has to get that $15 million back to them.”

 

[Buckaineer]

And this info from another much more opinion filled article:

BOREN:

“I would say many members will see if there’s a great financial value to the network,” Boren said Thursday following a scheduled meeting of the OU board of regents in Norman. “If there is, then we have to expand. Then we start looking at how different things fit together.”

Boren said he thinks the Big 12 stands to make a lot more money with a Big 12 network beaming its programming into local cable systems, and he could be right.

“There’s the possibility,” he said, “we could be leaving substantial amounts of money on the table by not having a Big 12 network.”

...“Where do we stand on expansion? It depends on the answer to the first question (about a network),” Boren said. “… Then it comes down to what schools are available.

“We have another consulting group looking at all these schools — 80, 50, it’s a large number. All the schools that might be available — even some that probably wouldn’t be but might be, if you could find someone that wanted to change conferences that’s out there.”

Boren said he has received material from probably 25 schools about joining the Big 12.

“I love to do things quickly. I try to be decisive if I can be. But there are times you have to say, ‘Let’s gather all the information. Once we have all the information, let’s make an intelligent decision.’ The data is going to speak to me. My hunch is a Big 12 network will be advantageous to everybody in the conference. But my hunch might be wrong. You have to let the facts change your mind.”

http://thefranchiseok.com/heres-why-creating-a-big-12-network-first-is-a-bad-idea/

 

[Buckaineer]

From OU Daily:

excerpt:
Oklahoma football: President Boren says Big 12 presidents are in "fact-finding" stage

"If you're not going to have a network, you don't need an expansion," Boren said.

Boren insisted that expansion is not on the table until the conference's leadership determines how much money will be left on the table without a Big 12 network. He added that to have enough content to fill a conference network, it would probably require 12-14 schools.

...."We want a conference that's respectable in every way," Boren said. "We're not ready to make any of these decisions yet without more data."

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

What Texas needs from the Big 12 when it comes to expansion, the Longhorn Network

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/col...needs-big-12-comes-expansion-longhorn-network

Bowlsby obliquely acknowledged at last week's meetings in Phoenix that some schools carry more weight in discussions than others.

"I think you can probably figure that one out," Bowlsby said.

Here are two nuggets of information gleaned this week from multiple sources familiar with Texas' thinking on the issues:

-- Expansion. The UT administration isn't necessarily opposed to moving beyond the current 10 teams. But - and you knew a but was coming - Texas wants quality candidates if the Big 12 does add schools, ones that bring value athletically and just as much academically.

Does BYU qualify? UConn? Cincinnati? Who passes muster?

-- A conference network. Don't expect Texas to give up on its Longhorn Network deal with ESPN without a whole lot of convincing. And maybe not even then, especially if it involves a public perception of capitulation to Oklahoma.

Texas officials still view the network as a huge plus providing exposure to athletics and the campus. There's the economic component, with Texas averaging about $15 million over the life of the 20-year contract, signed in 2011. Don't expect Texas to take less on any deal to fold LHN in a Big 12 network and Texas may not want to give up an iron-clad contract for a bunch of projections, no matter what other Big 12 schools want.

Coming up with a Big 12 network model that can reimburse Texas is probably going to require some heavy lifting.

For fans of expansion looking for a positive takeaway, Fenves' background as an engineer is likely to make him more open to Big 12 discussions.

"He's a data guy," said one source.

Although by the time the Big 12 convenes again May 31-June 3 in Las Colinas, things should be starting to crystallize, Bowlsby acknowledged.

"We're kind of ramping up and everybody knows we're going to have to make decisions and that means that everybody can't be open-minded," Bowlsby said. "They'll begin to distill their thinking and develop institutional positions. And it's probably likely to be the fact that not everybody will agree."

 

[Buckaineer]

what's left out of the statement "And it's probably likely to be the fact that not everybody will agree." is that it's possible that everyone will therefore compromise.

They could choose to do nothing as Boren stated, then again they could see the data and agree that they must do some things for the future.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

what's left out of the statement "And it's probably likely to be the fact that not everybody will agree." is that it's possible that everyone will therefore compromise.

They could choose to do nothing as Boren stated, then again they could see the data and agree that they must do some things for the future.

I still say Texas holds all the cards. Hopefully the numbers will come back positive for BIG12N, and expansion and there is enough money and pressure on TexA$$ to agree to up LHN. If not the BIG12 as we know it won't be around long.

 

[Orlaco]

Define 'long'.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

Define 'long'.

End or very near end of GOR.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

End or very near end of GOR.

June 29, 2025 at 11:59 pm. So make that nine years, or close to it for a settlement.

 

[Buckaineer]

2023. The year the Big Ten will get a second new tv deal and the PAC has to redo theirs. That is when they'll go after teams.

The BIG12 has to redo theirs in 2024 ( they end in 2025). It's going to be difficult for the BIG 12 to get a new deal if anyone is waffling during the negotiation period. If no changes have been made before then you can get on it.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

Any conference that wants to 'go after' another power 5 team will be facing a vicious and well financed legal defense from the other conference as well as ESPN, and/or FOXSports, and CBS. Since four out of five of the conferences have a GOR, what effects one effects all four. Any Big 12 team that leaves before expiration will likely sacrifice all tier 1 and 2 revenue to the conference until that time.

That amount will be approaching $25 million or so in 2016, imagine what it may be in 8 or 9 years.

 

[Buckaineer]

Schools leaving a gor would sacrifice revenue from the time they departed to the end of the contract and the new conference wouldn't benefit from their media rights. Undoubtedly there would be lawsuits if they tried.

But, if its 2023, and the BIG 12 must negotiate a new contract in 2024 (for the end of their deals in 2025)--the B10 (and or P12) could certainly approach school(s) and make them an offer that, when their 2025 commitment expires, they join the other conference.

Then what you have is the BIG 12 unable to get that new deal done, because they don't have the commitment of a member or members. Disaster ensues.

IMO this is what the Big Ten has set its contract to expire in 2023 for.

One-to one up the P12 and B12. They'll get a second new contract before those conferences get one. That ensures they get a good deal and hurts the others trying to.

Two-to leave themselves options to poach schools from these conferences. Except they've always been a partner to the PAC--highly doubtful they poach them. More likely they are going to try to help them poach the only conference that can save their financially troubled conference--the BIG 12. Big Ten goes after the schools they want and then if they agree, the P12 does the same.

If the BIG 12 fails to address its needs to secure itself now, beyond the end of its contracts, this is what the membership will be facing. The other conferences aren't sitting still--and the SEC will likely try to join in because they'll begin to fall behind too--their contracts are not up until 2034 other than their CBS deal.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

Just as the amended GOR for the Big 12 moved the expiration date from 2018 to 2025, if any significant changes are made such as the addition of new members or even a B12N, I would imagine the broadcast partners would insist on the Big 12 extending the GOR to at least 2030. That would head off any moves by the other conferences attempting to poach the Big 12 when it is vulnerable.

It must be nice to be the SEC, where schools are free to leave anytime they choose but no one does! No GOR and no exit fee, but it just may be the most solid conference.

 

[Buckaineer]

Just as the amended GOR for the Big 12 moved the expiration date from 2018 to 2025, if any significant changes are made such as the addition of new members or even a B12N, I would imagine the broadcast partners would insist on the Big 12 extending the GOR to at least 2030. That would head off any moves by the other conferences attempting to poach the Big 12 when it is vulnerable.

It must be nice to be the SEC, where schools are free to leave anytime they choose but no one does! No GOR and no exit fee, but it just may be the most solid conference.

If someone looked into it, wonder if it might be discovered that the SEC does have a grant of rights. ESPN made an enormous financial commitment to that conference, basically converted ESPNU to the SECnetwork and investing huge sums to not only get that up and running and operating on a daily basis, but also converting much of their regular slots on ESPN platforms to SEC only coverage. Hard to imagine that ESPN basically turned over their coverage of college athletics to the SEC (which if you ever watch any ESPN channels now, they did) for no guarantees of membership--just a "its so nice to be in the SEC no one would ever leave" hope.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

Schools leaving a gor would sacrifice revenue from the time they departed to the end of the contract and the new conference wouldn't benefit from their media rights. Undoubtedly there would be lawsuits if they tried.

But, if its 2023, and the BIG 12 must negotiate a new contract in 2024 (for the end of their deals in 2025)--the B10 (and or P12) could certainly approach school(s) and make them an offer that, when their 2025 commitment expires, they join the other conference.

Then what you have is the BIG 12 unable to get that new deal done, because they don't have the commitment of a member or members. Disaster ensues.

IMO this is what the Big Ten has set its contract to expire in 2023 for.

One-to one up the P12 and B12. They'll get a second new contract before those conferences get one. That ensures they get a good deal and hurts the others trying to.

Two-to leave themselves options to poach schools from these conferences. Except they've always been a partner to the PAC--highly doubtful they poach them. More likely they are going to try to help them poach the only conference that can save their financially troubled conference--the BIG 12. Big Ten goes after the schools they want and then if they agree, the P12 does the same.

If the BIG 12 fails to address its needs to secure itself now, beyond the end of its contracts, this is what the membership will be facing. The other conferences aren't sitting still--and the SEC will likely try to join in because they'll begin to fall behind too--their contracts are not up until 2034 other than their CBS deal.

Exactly, and is why a BIG12N is so important. With a new network, an extended GOR can and will be signed, making it almost impossible for PAC, SEC, and or BIG to poach BIG12 teams around the end of their TV contracts.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

If someone looked into it, wonder if it might be discovered that the SEC does have a grant of rights. ESPN made an enormous financial commitment to that conference, basically converted ESPNU to the SECnetwork and investing huge sums to not only get that up and running and operating on a daily basis, but also converting much of their regular slots on ESPN platforms to SEC only coverage. Hard to imagine that ESPN basically turned over their coverage of college athletics to the SEC (which if you ever watch any ESPN channels now, they did) for no guarantees of membership--just a "its so nice to be in the SEC no one would ever leave" hope.

With all the FOI request on public SEC schools, we would have known if the SEC had a GOR.
The SEC along with the B1G, are the most stable conferences. Nobody is going to leave the SEC and is why they don't need a GOR.

 

[Buckaineer]

With all the FOI request on public SEC schools, we would have known if the SEC had a GOR.
The SEC along with the B1G, are the most stable conferences. Nobody is going to leave the SEC and is why they don't need a GOR.

When has anyone done an FOI request on public SEC schools about a grant of rights? or the Big Ten? or the ACC? or the Pac 12? Haven't ever seen anyone on a message board, or in the media even remotely concerned or interested in any of those or trying to get such documents. Only the BIG 12s gor is ever questioned or searched for.

But people just claim they don't exist for the SEC. Could be, but doesn't seem like smart business based on the enormous investment ESPN has placed on the success and stability of those schools being there through the mid 2030's at least.

People also love to say "these two conferences are the most stable" yet no one is trying to leave any P5 conference. Every conference including the Big Ten and SEC have disgruntled schools and fanbases for one reason or another. Not sure what makes one stable and the other not.

Unconnected people SAY "Oklahoma is trying to leave the BIG 12"! But Oklahoma says "We have no plans to leave the BIG 12, are trying to strengthen the conference and are not even speculating about it". That doesn't make the BIG 12 unstable.

Similarly people saying "the SEC and Big Ten can just take who they want when they want" doesn't make the ACC or BIG 12 vulnerable to those conferences, because if no one wants to leave the ACC or BIG 12 there is nothing anyone can do about it.

 

[skygusty]

When has anyone done an FOI request on public SEC schools about a grant of rights? or the Big Ten? or the ACC? or the Pac 12? Haven't ever seen anyone on a message board, or in the media even remotely concerned or interested in any of those or trying to get such documents. Only the BIG 12s gor is ever questioned or searched for.

But people just claim they don't exist for the SEC. Could be, but doesn't seem like smart business based on the enormous investment ESPN has placed on the success and stability of those schools being there through the mid 2030's at least.

People also love to say "these two conferences are the most stable" yet no one is trying to leave any P5 conference. Every conference including the Big Ten and SEC have disgruntled schools and fanbases for one reason or another. Not sure what makes one stable and the other not.

Unconnected people SAY "Oklahoma is trying to leave the BIG 12"! But Oklahoma says "We have no plans to leave the BIG 12, are trying to strengthen the conference and are not even speculating about it". That doesn't make the BIG 12 unstable.

Similarly people saying "the SEC and Big Ten can just take who they want when they want" doesn't make the ACC or BIG 12 vulnerable to those conferences, because if no one wants to leave the ACC or BIG 12 there is nothing anyone can do about it.

Most, if not all of the teams that have left for new conferences have been at the fringes of the conferences they left (Nebraska was big, but not core). Only the old Big East lost a team from the top of the conference, and that team was Miami. After that first round of defections it was only a matter of time before the Big East collapsed. Nothing of any real significance is going to happen if Texas and Oklahoma, Virginia, North Carolina, Clemson and Florida State stay put. Any of those 6 teams leaving would start toppling dominoes in drastic ways. Kansas would probably go to the Big10 if they get invited. That is a big loss but it wouldn't cripple the Big12. I've said it before and I'll say it again. the Big12 will be fine if they add 2 teams from the G5. They will also be fine if the numbers are not there and they stay at 10. Whatever decision they make, I hope they truly have the strength of the conference in mind and NOT just the short term interests of their school. I personally don't think that Texas or Oklahoma really wants to go anywhere and I think they will come out in favor of expansion but may not be able to come to a decision as to what two teams to add. The data from the TV people is going to be very important.

 

[Buckaineer]

Most, if not all of the teams that have left for new conferences have been at the fringes of the conferences they left (Nebraska was big, but not core). Only the old Big East lost a team from the top of the conference, and that team was Miami. After that first round of defections it was only a matter of time before the Big East collapsed. Nothing of any real significance is going to happen if Texas and Oklahoma, Virginia, North Carolina, Clemson and Florida State stay put. Any of those 6 teams leaving would start toppling dominoes in drastic ways. Kansas would probably go to the Big10 if they get invited. That is a big loss but it wouldn't cripple the Big12. I've said it before and I'll say it again. the Big12 will be fine if they add 2 teams from the G5. They will also be fine if the numbers are not there and they stay at 10. Whatever decision they make, I hope they truly have the strength of the conference in mind and NOT just the short term interests of their school. I personally don't think that Texas or Oklahoma really wants to go anywhere and I think they will come out in favor of expansion but may not be able to come to a decision as to what two teams to add. The data from the TV people is going to be very important.

If once the data is fully distributed and everyone has vetted the candidates-schools still vote against-that would be signaling trouble. That would mean some do not have the best interests of the conference in mind.

None of these issues are "short term". The BIG 12 is going to begin falling behind the Big Ten and to a lesser degree the SEC. After the contracts though in 2025? The commisioner says if nothing is done the conference could be $20 million behind. That isn't survivable so doing nothing is not an option.

Also, the conference needs to eliminate its disadvantages in making the playoff--it can't miss out on multiple years because of a lack of a CCG.

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

If once the data is fully distributed and everyone has vetted the candidates-schools still vote against-that would be signaling trouble. That would mean some do not have the best interests of the conference in mind.

None of these issues are "short term". The BIG 12 is going to begin falling behind the Big Ten and to a lesser degree the SEC. After the contracts though in 2025? The commisioner says if nothing is done the conference could be $20 million behind. That isn't survivable so doing nothing is not an option.

Also, the conference needs to eliminate its disadvantages in making the playoff--it can't miss out on multiple years because of a lack of a CCG.

Even with a network, I doubt the BIG12 will be able to keep up with the B1G or SEC. The question is, would the BIG12 settle for having the 3rd highest revenue sharing per school ahead of the PAC, and ACC?

 

[Mountaineer Steve]

When has anyone done an FOI request on public SEC schools about a grant of rights? or the Big Ten? or the ACC? or the Pac 12? Haven't ever seen anyone on a message board, or in the media even remotely concerned or interested in any of those or trying to get such documents. Only the BIG 12s gor is ever questioned or searched for.

But people just claim they don't exist for the SEC. Could be, but doesn't seem like smart business based on the enormous investment ESPN has placed on the success and stability of those schools being there through the mid 2030's at least.

People also love to say "these two conferences are the most stable" yet no one is trying to leave any P5 conference. Every conference including the Big Ten and SEC have disgruntled schools and fanbases for one reason or another. Not sure what makes one stable and the other not.

Unconnected people SAY "Oklahoma is trying to leave the BIG 12"! But Oklahoma says "We have no plans to leave the BIG 12, are trying to strengthen the conference and are not even speculating about it". That doesn't make the BIG 12 unstable.

Similarly people saying "the SEC and Big Ten can just take who they want when they want" doesn't make the ACC or BIG 12 vulnerable to those conferences, because if no one wants to leave the ACC or BIG 12 there is nothing anyone can do about it.

You must be kidding? You think there has been no FOI against public SEC schools to find out every details about their contracts? Talk about jumping to conclusion to slant your point.

I found multiple credible sources, including ESPN, USATODAY and CBS stating the SEC does NOT have a GOR. In fact if I am not mistaken they are the only P5 conference without one. Here is just two


The ACC becomes the fourth league with a grant of rights, along with the Big Ten, Pac-12 and Big 12. The SEC is the only conference among the "power five" leagues that does not have a grant of rights.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...media-rights-deal-lock-schools-okd-presidents

But now, with the ACC locking its members, the five power conferences can't really raid each other anymore. The ACC, the Pac 12, the Big Ten and the Big 12 all now have a "grant of rights" agreement. The SEC doesn't have one, but it doesn't really need one. If any of those five leagues feel the need to expand, they'll have to dip into the Mountain West or the American Athletic Conference (formerly the Big East). And at this moment, there doesn't appear to be a reason to do so.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ege-football-playoff-realignment-era/2108411/

 

[Buckaineer]

You must be kidding? You think there has been no FOI against public SEC schools to find out every details about their contracts? Talk about jumping to conclusion to slant your point.

I found multiple credible sources, including ESPN, USATODAY and CBS stating the SEC does NOT have a GOR. In fact if I am not mistaken they are the only P5 conference without one. Here is just two


The ACC becomes the fourth league with a grant of rights, along with the Big Ten, Pac-12 and Big 12. The SEC is the only conference among the "power five" leagues that does not have a grant of rights.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...media-rights-deal-lock-schools-okd-presidents

But now, with the ACC locking its members, the five power conferences can't really raid each other anymore. The ACC, the Pac 12, the Big Ten and the Big 12 all now have a "grant of rights" agreement. The SEC doesn't have one, but it doesn't really need one. If any of those five leagues feel the need to expand, they'll have to dip into the Mountain West or the American Athletic Conference (formerly the Big East). And at this moment, there doesn't appear to be a reason to do so.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ege-football-playoff-realignment-era/2108411/

Many people have said the SEC has no GOR. I said I'm not aware of anyone doing an FOI search for theirs , the ACCs, the Big Tens or the PAC 12s. People have said they've searched for the BIG 12s and some have even posted the same. Never saw one poster or blogger ever present the Big Tens, PAC 12s or ACCs or claim they look ed into the SECs . An article stating they don't have one from around when their network was being created doesn't prove they were not put under one when the network was enacted. Again, who has checked to see? Writers state things that aren't true all the time.