Coach mediocre is now...

[TownesVanZandt]

So by your reasoning; Recruiting is all that matters and since WVU will never have the resources and thus success of Texas and OU, the school should just be content playing for Big XII third place year in and year out? You know since coaching has so little to do with success.

Recruiting is important if you have the right coaching staff that can evaluate talent and develop the talent.

Just ask USC and their supposed 5 star prodigy QB JT Daniels.
I didn't even think he was best QB from Southern California last year let alone a Top 3 QB in the nation.

I am a critic of DH. Not because of his coaching but because I don't think he is building a program that is sustainable.
I think WV fans can identify who could win there and who could not .
The attacks on Dana are misplaced and truthfully WV could do a lot worse than him.

Truthfully I think if they identify a coach who fits WV and has connections in states WV wants to recruit they should go after him.
I don't think Dana should be fired unless there is a home run candidate.

I think truthfully WV can build a program that can compete with Oklahoma and Texas at its best.
Maybe not every year but a lot more than Bill Snyder did at Kansas St because WV has better access to talent.

HoF CFB coaches don't just appear.

Truthfully if I would hire a coach right now at a program like WV.
One of the top candidates would be someone from Iowa or Wisconsin.
I would be interested in Wisconsin DC Jim Leonhard.

 

[Rootmaster]

Recruiting is important if

"If"? You are kidding right?

 

[TownesVanZandt]

"If"? You are kidding right?

But Dana is recruiting better than any coach in the history of WV according to recruiting rankings
Note they didn't have national ratings before 1999.

USC and Florida St are prime examples of schools who are not playing up to their recruiting rankings.
One of the reasons why Jimbo is not a Top 5 coach at the current time.
He should have won 3 NC at Florida St.

Like I said evaluating and developing talent is more important.
Especially with the PWO programs.

Reason why Wisconsin has been a Top 20 program since 1994.
They start 1-3 walk ons every year

 

[Rootmaster]

Recruiting is job one. Keeping and developing that talent are jobs two and three. Winning with that talent is the final exam. There is no if when it comes to recruiting.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

Problem WV has it the same as Penn St, Pitt and Ohio St have.

A declining talent base. Don't know how they recruited in the 70's but then they had a lot of talent

Today you identify rising sophomores and invite them for Unofficial visits for home games.
Schools like USC, Texas, Georgia and Florida St can invite 30 rising sophomores that all live 200 miles from campus.

WV has to have these kids fly in or fight the local schools in PA and Ohio for these kid's attention.

You can accuse Dana for not getting Top 20 classes but when you uncover the truth he has done a decent job getting these recruits' attention without the hype

 

[Rootmaster]

A declining talent base

lol...what the hell are you talking about?

 

[TownesVanZandt]

lol...what the hell are you talking about?

Your WPA is showing, brother.

Penn St and Pitt both have to recruit nationally because of the lack of top end Western PA talent.
There is still talent there but nothing like it was 30-40 years ago.

For example PA only has 43 3 star players.
Out of those 43 only a handful are considered bluechip.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

Texas for example has more blue chip 4 star and above than PA does 3 star and above

Texas has well over 300 players rated 3 star or above compared to PA at 43.

That is the declining talent base in WPA

 

[GetWithTheTimesMan]

lol...what the hell are you talking about?

He knows what he’s talking about.

You don’t.

Times have changed, Grandpa. College football has changed.

If you want to look at the current world through 1960s lenses, by all means do it.

But don’t expect anyone to take you seriously.

 

[Rootmaster]

Move the goal posts much lol. Who says WV recruiting is "local". Recruits come from everywhere. It is up to Coach Mediocre to get them...same as everybody else. In case you haven't noticed we are talking about college sports on a national level...not high school. How old are you?

 

[TownesVanZandt]

Move the goal posts much lol. Who says WV recruiting is "local". Recruits come from everywhere. It is up to Coach Mediocre to get them...same as everybody else. In case you haven't noticed we are talking about college sports on a national level...not high school. How old are you?

Either you are half way retarded or you are trying to troll.
I think it is a little bit of both.
I explained this earlier
Florida St for example can invite all the top recruits in their area to a home game.
They get in a car and drive the hour or 2 to Tallahassee a few times a year starting their sophomore year.
By the time they are seniors they are ingrained with FSU football.

WV cannot do this.
Plus they cannot pay for transportation unless it is a OV. You cannot have an OV until your senior year.

By the time WV can pay for recruits to travel to Morgantown these recruits already have their minds made up

That leaves the underrated players.
Once a program gets the name of being great talent evaluators teams poach their recruits.

It is happening to Iowa St right now.

 

[countryroads89]

West Virginia has never had a Top 25 class.

Wrong!

2013 = 25

The 2007 team was arguably our best team, certainly one of our top 5 teams and arguably the best team in the country that year. If you look at the recruiting rankings preceding that year (2006, 2005, 2004) those recruiting rankings were 53, 31 and 47, respectively. Don't put too much stock in recruiting rankings.

If a coach can land special talent at the skill positions with the other positions being "serviceable" and can game plan/scheme to take advantage of that talent, they can achieve great things.

 

[Rootmaster]

They get in a car and drive the hour or 2

WV cannot do this.
Plus they cannot pay for transportation unless it is a OV. You cannot have an OV until your senior year.

By the time WV can pay for recruits to travel to Morgantown these recruits already have their minds made up

That leaves the underrated players.

Your lack of understanding of college athletics and college athlete recruiting is astounding.wow.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

Your lack of understanding of college athletics and college athlete recruiting is astounding.wow.

You double down on your stupidity.
Instead of trying to sound like you are an expert you should attempt to learn something.
Having the biggest voice on a college message board because of ignorance and personal attacks is not something to be proud of in today's world

 

[TownesVanZandt]

Wrong!

2013 = 25

The 2007 team was arguably our best team, certainly one of our top 5 teams and arguably the best team in the country that year. If you look at the recruiting rankings preceding that year (2006, 2005, 2004) those recruiting rankings were 53, 31 and 47, respectively. Don't put too much stock in recruiting rankings.

If a coach can land special talent at the skill positions with the other positions being "serviceable" and can game plan/scheme to take advantage of that talent, they can achieve great things.

According to composite rankings that class was 30th and it also had 36 commits.

WVU and Rich Rodriguez had 10 win seasons because they were playing schools with lower rated recruits.
The way of building a team you are speaking of backfired in Year 1 of the Big XII.

To build a team to win in a P5 conference you must build from the inside out.
More importantly you need talent in the secondary.
Having a great QB and some WRs will get you 5-7 and 6-6.

 

[GetWithTheTimesMan]

Your lack of understanding of college athletics and college athlete recruiting is astounding.wow.

LOL you only understand college athletics and college athlete recruiting from circa 1958.

So who you got in the presidential election in a few years, Kennedy or Nixon?

 

[ChattanoogaEER]

LOL you only understand college athletics and college athlete recruiting from circa 1958.

So who you got in the presidential election in a few years, Kennedy or Nixon?

It’s not his age that makes him obnoxious.

 

[countryroads89]

According to composite rankings that class was 30th and it also had 36 commits.

here is the link showing the 25 ranking.

https://westvirginia.rivals.com/news/reviewing-the-west-virginia-recruiting-rankings-from-2002-18

WVU and Rich Rodriguez had 10 win seasons because they were playing schools with lower rated recruits.

You seriously think we beat a "lower rated recruiting class" in Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl?
Here is there 2006, 2005 and 2004 recruiting rankings, respectively (since I posted ours for those same three years); 9th, 3rd and 8th.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

It is because he has multiple accounts on here.
They all take part in the same behavior.
Personal attacks for anyone that shows support of WV
Attacks on the Big XII
Support for Pitt
Illogical arguments


Like I said I am a critic of Dana but not because he is Coach Mediocre because like I said according to recruiting rankings WV should finish 4th to 6th.

I am a critic because I see DH as a poorman's Mike Leach. Even Leach has never won anything in his career.

More than that the other coach who has a huge impact on Dana is stubborn and does not adapt.
Mike Gundy is a great coach but he is hard headed. I see the same with Dana. It is like putting square pegs in a circle hole.

With all that he is still a good coach. A bad or horrible coach would finished under his recruiting ranking meaning 6th-8th in the Big XII

 

[TownesVanZandt]

here is the link showing the 25 ranking.

https://westvirginia.rivals.com/news/reviewing-the-west-virginia-recruiting-rankings-from-2002-18



You seriously think we beat a "lower rated recruiting class" in Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl?
Here is there 2006, 2005 and 2004 recruiting rankings, respectively (since I posted ours for those same three years); 9th, 3rd and 8th.

I like the composite because it uses all the recruiting sites to determine rankings.

But like I said that class was unusually large. It had 38 commits.


Regarding OU.
WV did beat OU like Dana beat Clemson like Rich Rod beat UGA.

A team like WV can play an A game in a bowl game once a year.
It is easy to motivate a team in a bowl game but WV won't play on that level all year.

The issue in the Big XII that wasn't in the Big East is what if WV plays a C game.
C game in the Big XII gets you beat by 30.
A C game in the Big East still gave you a chance to win a game against a Rutgers or Cincinnati.

The current AAC is a lower version of the Big East from 05-11.
Just look at UCF and Memphis.
UCF played a C game vs Memphis and won by 2.
In a P5 conference UCF would have been blown out.

 

[Rootmaster]

A team like WV can play an A game in a bowl game once a year.
It is easy to motivate a team in a bowl game but WV won't play on that level all year.

Have you paid attention to WVU's bowl game record under DH past six seasons? Or, are you still thrillin' off the Orange Bowl game with BS's recruits?

 

[TownesVanZandt]

You are not getting it.
People who accept reality can change the reality of their surroundings.
People who change the reality in their minds live in their own world and attempt to explain the world through their terms


2011 West Virginia won the BE and beat a good Clemson team in the Bowl game
2012 Most of that team came back and played like crap.
Main reason why was the grind through the season.
2013 WV was horrible
2014- current time DH has been trying to build WV up to a level where it can compete for Big XII Championship

Pick any current HoF coach and he would have to do the same.
Hire any coach you want and it would take them 3-5 years to win a Big XII Championships.

Teams who recruit better than WV
Oklahoma
Texas
TCU
Baylor

Teams who recruit at the same level of WV
Oklahoma St

Teams who recruit better than WV but have a coach who gets the most of his talent
Kansas St
Iowa St


Teams who recruit below WV
Texas Tech
Kansas


In the Big East is wasn't like that. WV usually had the best players and if not it was pretty close.

Unless you have a coach in mind like a Matt Campbell then DH does as great of a job at WV that you will find.

 

[88rocco]

Tuscaloosa, AL isn't the garden spot of the world, but it sure does well for itself.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

Tuscaloosa, AL isn't the garden spot of the world, but it sure does well for itself.

Alabama has talent.
Mississippi is one of the most talent rich States in the country.
Georgia is as well.

Even when Bama sucked they brought in Top 15 classes at the least.
Bama at its worse can recruit better than WV ever has

 

[countryroads89]

Teams who recruit better than WV
Oklahoma
Texas
TCU
Baylor

Teams who recruit at the same level of WV
Oklahoma St

Teams who recruit better than WV but have a coach who gets the most of his talent
Kansas St
Iowa St


Teams who recruit below WV
Texas Tech
Kansas

Disagree.

And I'll guess the number of players we have sent to the NFL support my argument.

We currently have 17 in the NFL. TCU has 13, Baylor has 8, Oklahoma State has 16, Iowa State has 4, Kansas State has 11.

Next excuse?

 

[Motormaster]

Have you paid attention to WVU's bowl game record under DH past six seasons? Or, are you still thrillin' off the Orange Bowl game with BS's recruits?

Holgorsen's record in bowls is 2-4 while Nehlen was 4-9 in bowl games. Dana hasn't been good but Nehlen was awful in bowl games.

My biggest issues with Holgorsen are his consistent mid-season collapses and his inability to develop a high school quarterback. When Grier was lost to an injury last year, it was pathetic that Dana didn't have an adequate backup in place considering how long he has been coaching WVU. He acts like his system is so awesome that he can plug in any Joe Schmo at QB and turn him into a future Pro Bowl player. How else can the Chugs experiment be explained?

 

[Rootmaster]

People who change the reality in their minds live in their own world and attempt to explain the world through their terms

Now I understand why you post what you do lol!

 

[leapinglannypoffo]

Now I understand why you post what you do lol!

You sure like to use "lol" a lot. You either find your idiotic posts super funny or you're a high school girl. Either way you're still pathetic.

 

[Rootmaster]

Holgorsen's record in bowls is 2-4 while Nehlen was 4-9 in bowl games. Dana hasn't been good but Nehlen was awful in bowl games.

Two things. One, I referred to the last six years in my post, not the Orange Bowl win with BS recruits. DH is 1-4 against not so elite competition lol. Two, who mentioned Nehlen?

I do agree with the rest of your response. Mind numbing that a QB coach can't get more than one transfer a year. That in itself puts a mark on DH recruiting.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

Good news for WV..

Looks like TCU's issues won't be confined to one year.
Their recruiting class is getting ripped a part. If you ask who is the one school that will be hurt if Texas starts winning it would have to be TCU.

But.....

Take this as a disclaimer because Gary Patterson and TCU may change things up. If any coach can adapt quickly it is Gary Patterson.

With all that WV should be finishing in the Top 4 year in and year out in the Big XII.

 

[Motormaster]

Two things. One, I referred to the last six years in my post, not the Orange Bowl win with BS recruits. DH is 1-4 against not so elite competition lol. Two, who mentioned Nehlen?

I'll give DH the Orange Bowl even though the recruits were Stew's. Stew won with Rich Rod's recruits but I'm not taking that away from him just like I am not taking the Orange Bowl away from DH.

My point with Nehlen was DH hasn't been great in bowl games but neither was Nehlen or even Rich Rod. Nehlen lost several bowl games to mediocre competition that he should have won. No coach at WVU has ever been awesome in bowls.

My overall point in general was Dana has many other issues besides being bad in bowl games and those issues are greatly affecting his and WVU's success.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

I am going to use Iowa St for example

Paul Rhodes did a great job there with his staff and strength and conditioning program but once Tom Herman left as OC he didn't have that motivator that could put them over the top.
Matt Campbell comes in and changes the narrative.

He pretty much told everyone at Iowa St that they have been pushed around long enough and it is time to get off the ground and push back .

What WV saw in Iowa State is a culture that is becoming a program.

ISU had been kicked around since the Big XII started and was kicked around in the Big 8.

Thing is WV hasn't hit that point where enough is enough.

 

[Rootmaster]

Thing is WV hasn't hit that point where enough is enough

Your opinion only.

 

[Motormaster]

Your opinion only.

Agreed! The head coach has to establish that hard-nosed, aggressive mentality with the team.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

You know when you know enough is enough.
The WV media will be full of anti Dana stories.
Figuring out how the power brokers feel about a certain coach is very easy.

Just look at Oklahoma St. 75% of their stories are on their coach Mike Gundy.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

A) You come around when WV loses
B) You never come around when WV wins
C) You defend WPA

Doesn't sound like a real WV fan.....

 

[Rootmaster]

A) You come around when WV loses
B) You never come around when WV wins
C) You defend WPA

Doesn't sound like a real WV fan.....

Panties in a bunch lol.

 

[still5-0vstarheels]

You are not getting it.
People who accept reality can change the reality of their surroundings.
People who change the reality in their minds live in their own world and attempt to explain the world through their terms


2011 West Virginia won the BE and beat a good Clemson team in the Bowl game
2012 Most of that team came back and played like crap.
Main reason why was the grind through the season.
2013 WV was horrible
2014- current time DH has been trying to build WV up to a level where it can compete for Big XII Championship

Pick any current HoF coach and he would have to do the same.
Hire any coach you want and it would take them 3-5 years to win a Big XII Championships.

Teams who recruit better than WV
Oklahoma
Texas
TCU
Baylor

Teams who recruit at the same level of WV
Oklahoma St

Teams who recruit better than WV but have a coach who gets the most of his talent
Kansas St
Iowa St


Teams who recruit below WV
Texas Tech
Kansas


In the Big East is wasn't like that. WV usually had the best players and if not it was pretty close.

Unless you have a coach in mind like a Matt Campbell then DH does as great of a job at WV that you will find.

Actually we had a lot of the offense back but lost our best defensive players. A lack of numbers really caught up with us on the defensive side that year.