Casazza: AD Lyons Ponders Big 12 Future

[skygusty]

In the current pecking order of sports teams' athletic prowess, Texas would be easier to replace than Oklahoma. Houston would do nicely, and in any other conference available UT is currently an also ran. The only way they could keep the LHN while leaving would be to go independent. UT with nobody in a conference to bully? As they say in the South, "Shut your mouth!"

Oklahoma has 7 national championships, Texas has 4, Houston, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor have zero. That is one metric. Perception, respect, tradition, endowment, alumni and influence are other metrics I can't evaluate. I hope we never have to find out how important Texas and Oklahoma might be to the future of the BIG12. I suspect that it wouldn't be as nice or as easy as you think. I think they are both blowing a lot of smoke but, I don't really care to find out.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

No one school is irreplaceable. What Texas did in the past is remarkable. And so it is with USC and UCLA. But this is a what have you done lately world. All Texas has done in the last few years is nothing. Oklahoma embarrassed themselves and the entire conference in last year's playoffs. Baylor and TCU are carrying the conference now. Who will in the future? Nostalgia is nice but is doesn't get you into the playoffs. The majority of college football fans cannot remember when Penn State was relevant. Who can remember when Nebraska was feared by the competition? Who are the big dogs now? That's what the playoff selection committee looks at.

 

[skygusty]

It would be nice if they could win again on the big stage to justify all the whining and chest beating they do, But, in terms of revenue coming to the BIG12, I don't think it is a conference negotiating TV contracts to the tune of 30 million per school or more without those two schools. We aren't going to be replacing them with schools that have ever won a national championship or deliver the same market. They could and would be replaced but the cost would be severe. "Yes Mr. TV executive, we lost Texas and Oklahoma, but we got Houston and Tulsa to fill in for them. What's the problem? " Like I said, I'd rather not find out.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

It would be nice if they could win again on the big stage to justify all the whining and chest beating they do, But, in terms of revenue coming to the BIG12, I don't think it is a conference negotiating TV contracts to the tune of 30 million per school or more without those two schools. We aren't going to be replacing them with schools that have ever won a national championship or deliver the same market. They could and would be replaced but the cost would be severe. "Yes Mr. TV executive, we lost Texas and Oklahoma, but we got Houston and Tulsa to fill in for them. What's the problem? " Like I said, I'd rather not find out.

I understand what your saying, but it would be nice if they would start earning their reps again. Right now it's like, "Who's playing on TV tonight?" "Texas and Oklahoma!" "That's nice, what else is on?" "Dr. Phil and Dancing with the stars." "OK, either one of those will do." That's how far the mighty have fallen in the real world.

 

[ThePunish-EER]

No one school is irreplaceable. What Texas did in the past is remarkable. And so it is with USC and UCLA. But this is a what have you done lately world. All Texas has done in the last few years is nothing. Oklahoma embarrassed themselves and the entire conference in last year's playoffs. Baylor and TCU are carrying the conference now. Who will in the future? Nostalgia is nice but is doesn't get you into the playoffs. The majority of college football fans cannot remember when Penn State was relevant. Who can remember when Nebraska was feared by the competition? Who are the big dogs now? That's what the playoff selection committee looks at.

I understand what your saying, but it would be nice if they would start earning their reps again. Right now it's like, "Who's playing on TV tonight?" "Texas and Oklahoma!" "That's nice, what else is on?" "Dr. Phil and Dancing with the stars." "OK, either one of those will do." That's how far the mighty have fallen in the real world.

completely wrong. It's just like Notre dame. People still tune in for blue bloods. This is true even when they go through down periods. You have your opinion, but I'm betting you are wrong. I don't have time at the moment to look it up, but I'll try later to see if I can find neilson ratings for Texas games.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

That was meant to be 'tongue in cheek' sarcasm. UT attendance is down, but it's still 93k per home game. Even when a big dog is tired and lays down, he's still a big dog and able to bite.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

It would be nice if they could win again on the big stage to justify all the whining and chest beating they do, But, in terms of revenue coming to the BIG12, I don't think it is a conference negotiating TV contracts to the tune of 30 million per school or more without those two schools. We aren't going to be replacing them with schools that have ever won a national championship or deliver the same market. They could and would be replaced but the cost would be severe. "Yes Mr. TV executive, we lost Texas and Oklahoma, but we got Houston and Tulsa to fill in for them. What's the problem? " Like I said, I'd rather not find out.

You are correct, winning cures all or it cures so much that what is not cured does not matter. It is a given that when you win you are more likely to let the little stuff go by. I am not sure it holds true for an egotist though and Texas is a different animal. They call it pride, others call it egotism, but the end result is that Texas as winner is more difficult to live with than Texas as a loser. Oklahoma is doing this now since they are on a decent streak. If Oklahoma was having WVU's seasons Boren would not be so vocal.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

Texas is what they call a necessary evil in the Big 12. But with a losing record and deficit network they really have nowhere to go without being taken down a notch or two. As an independent they would always be second to ND. In the B1G, half the other members would be asking, "What in the world is a 'Longhorn' and exactly who do they expect to hook?" In the SEC their blood would not be nearly so blue, but they would always be competing with A&M.

Their best bet is to make their Kingdom called the Big 12 as prominent as they can. Why become a Prince if you're already a King? The reality of playing second fiddle to USC and UCLA likely changed their minds about the PAC.

 

[ThePunish-EER]

Texas is what they call a necessary evil in the Big 12. But with a losing record and deficit network they really have nowhere to go without being taken down a notch or two. As an independent they would always be second to ND. In the B1G, half the other members would be asking, "What in the world is a 'Longhorn' and exactly who do they expect to hook?" In the SEC their blood would not be nearly so blue, but they would always be competing with A&M.

Their best bet is to make their Kingdom called the Big 12 as prominent as they can. Why become a Prince if you're already a King? The reality of playing second fiddle to USC and UCLA likely changed their minds about the PAC.

you really don't understand, do you? Texas is not 2nd to anyone. They are the largest revenue generating AD in the country. Yes, even over ND.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

you really don't understand, do you? Texas is not 2nd to anyone. They are the largest revenue generating AD in the country. Yes, even over ND.

I do understand, but competition wise they still suck and would embarrass themselves in the SEC. As far as I and a hell of a lot of other football fans across the nation are concerned, f***k Texas! They may draw 93k in their 100k stadium, but they cannot sell out Milan Puskar. I'll bet ND could! And just so you know, I do NOT like ND.

 

[ThePunish-EER]

I do understand, but competition wise they still suck and would embarrass themselves in the SEC. As far as I and a hell of a lot of other football fans across the nation are concerned, f***k Texas! They may draw 93k in their 100k stadium, but they cannot sell out Milan Puskar. I'll bet ND could! And just so you know, I do NOT like ND.

stop speaking for everybody else. You have your opinion as do I. Yours doesn't matchup with fans "across the nation". Texas is a national brand. Fact.

 

[Buckaineer]

Texas or anyone could leave the BIG 12 one day--but Texas isn't walking away unscathed.

If in 2025 they want to leave-what happens to their LHN? Where else are they going to take it? There's nowhere to take it except maybe the ACC. If they go independent . If they go independent they lose the $40-$50 million per year they would be earning in the BIG 12. ND gets $4 or $5 million from the ACC for "other sports" and really, their tier 3 sports are probably more valuable than UT's are.

Really don't think Texas is giving up $40 million a year to join the ACC and leave all Texas schools behind.

The Big Ten, and SEC. The SEC doesn't add to its footprint with Texas and under no circumstances does the LHN get in there. So Texas loses LHN money and probably makes about the some conference payout plus conference network money they would in the BIG 12--could be less though as the SEC has to feed more mouths and keep existing members whole.

Big Ten? They'll add to their tv deal maybe. But they'll also need to add at least 3 other schools or they don't have anything close to "contiguous". That eats up alot of money, and the LHN is dropped. They'll get maybe $10 million in the BTN instead. They won't be playing in their footprint and instead will be in the upper midwest--giving those schools Texas recruiting access while for themselves? Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois? And forget about playing multiple BIG 12 schools. Oklahoma gone, all Texas schools gone. All political clout gone and extreme travel costs--all to make maybe a little better money--maybe, but since they will have lost at least $5 million per year it'll probably be break even revenues but significantly increased travel costs for every away game.

The Pac? Texas probably takes a couple schools with them. But not their network. And the Pac nets pay about $1 million per year--and the conference payout is lower than the BIG 12s. So even though they'll get a little boost from adding Texas, they'll have to feed many more mouths--the money isn't going to be better and travel again is huge.

Its in Texas best interest to improve the conference they are in as much as it is for anyone.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

stop speaking for everybody else. You have your opinion as do I. Yours doesn't matchup with fans "across the nation". Texas is a national brand. Fact.

I'm not speaking for everybody else, only those who agree with me. Texas is indeed a national brand which makes them as polarizing as any other. I don't hate Texas, I just do not care what they do, if they leave or stay. Saying they are the Big 12 as some do is foolishness. If they left the conference and were replaced with another of equal current success it would not cause the Big 12 to lose their power 5 status. Having teams in the top 10 takes care of that and Texas is not currently one of those teams. It would effect the conference's overall TV ratings. When you talk about Texas, Alabama, ND and several other teams with national recognition, for every fan who loves them there is another who either hates them or is simply unimpressed with their arrogance like me.

 

[ThePunish-EER]

Texas or anyone could leave the BIG 12 one day--but Texas isn't walking away unscathed.

If in 2025 they want to leave-what happens to their LHN? Where else are they going to take it? There's nowhere to take it except maybe the ACC. If they go independent . If they go independent they lose the $40-$50 million per year they would be earning in the BIG 12. ND gets $4 or $5 million from the ACC for "other sports" and really, their tier 3 sports are probably more valuable than UT's are.

Really don't think Texas is giving up $40 million a year to join the ACC and leave all Texas schools behind.

The Big Ten, and SEC. The SEC doesn't add to its footprint with Texas and under no circumstances does the LHN get in there. So Texas loses LHN money and probably makes about the some conference payout plus conference network money they would in the BIG 12--could be less though as the SEC has to feed more mouths and keep existing members whole.

Big Ten? They'll add to their tv deal maybe. But they'll also need to add at least 3 other schools or they don't have anything close to "contiguous". That eats up alot of money, and the LHN is dropped. They'll get maybe $10 million in the BTN instead. They won't be playing in their footprint and instead will be in the upper midwest--giving those schools Texas recruiting access while for themselves? Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois? And forget about playing multiple BIG 12 schools. Oklahoma gone, all Texas schools gone. All political clout gone and extreme travel costs--all to make maybe a little better money--maybe, but since they will have lost at least $5 million per year it'll probably be break even revenues but significantly increased travel costs for every away game.

The Pac? Texas probably takes a couple schools with them. But not their network. And the Pac nets pay about $1 million per year--and the conference payout is lower than the BIG 12s. So even though they'll get a little boost from adding Texas, they'll have to feed many more mouths--the money isn't going to be better and travel again is huge.

Its in Texas best interest to improve the conference they are in as much as it is for anyone.

lets be honest, any P5 conference would make an exception for Texas and their LHN if it came down to adding them.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

lets be honest, any P5 conference would make an exception for Texas and their LHN if it came down to adding them.

I have to disagree.

The SEC has a strong record for not taking schools in a state in which they are already represented. You would reply well, WHOA this is TEXAS! Well, whoa, what about Florida State? It is no secret that FSU has zero chance to get in the SEC - they already tried - several times and were always told no thanks and it was because of the Gators.

As much as the Longhorns would hate it the Aggies can now do the same to them.

The Big Ten has another strong track record. No school to be invited into the Big Ten has not been a border state and has not been an AAU. Obviously Texas is an AAU but the Big Ten would need a path to the Texas border and one does not exist.

Neither conference has violated these standards since they have been implemented.

The only other conferences the Longhorns can go to is the ACC or Pac-12. They could not make it work with the Pac-12 when there was the best possible chance and the ACC - surely there is a joke in there. The conference that is the new Big East is not a place to enter, you only want out of that mess.

 

[LowFatMilk]

I have to disagree.

The SEC has a strong record for not taking schools in a state in which they are already represented. You would reply well, WHOA this is TEXAS! Well, whoa, what about Florida State? It is no secret that FSU has zero chance to get in the SEC - they already tried - several times and were always told no thanks and it was because of the Gators.

As much as the Longhorns would hate it the Aggies can now do the same to them.

The Big Ten has another strong track record. No school to be invited into the Big Ten has not been a border state and has not been an AAU. Obviously Texas is an AAU but the Big Ten would need a path to the Texas border and one does not exist.

Neither conference has violated these standards since they have been implemented.

The only other conferences the Longhorns can go to is the ACC or Pac-12. They could not make it work with the Pac-12 when there was the best possible chance and the ACC - surely there is a joke in there. The conference that is the new Big East is not a place to enter, you only want out of that mess.

All that... ...but you'd have to agree the Big10 would take ND in a fraction of a second as an equal member.

While I disagree with others about Texas being a national brand they're certainly the biggest in a very large regional market. ....conferences would make exceptions to get them.

 

[Charleston Mountie]

All that... ...but you'd have to agree the Big10 would take ND in a fraction of a second as an equal member.

While I disagree with others about Texas being a national brand they're certainly the biggest in a very large regional market. ....conferences would make exceptions to get them.

Notre Dame is an enigma and there were times when the Big Ten tried to get the Domers but I am not as sure they are still interested to that extent. I think at the end of the day, ND would still get the invite but the terms that they might have been allowed at one time are probably gone.

 

[LowFatMilk]

Notre Dame is an enigma and there were times when the Big Ten tried to get the Domers but I am not as sure they are still interested to that extent. I think at the end of the day, ND would still get the invite but the terms that they might have been allowed at one time are probably gone.

I agree. ...which is why I made sure to write, 'equal member'.

I think Texas would also get a pass on the unwritten (although it may be on paper somewhere) rules of expansion for both the Big 10 and the SEC.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

I agree. ...which is why I made sure to write, 'equal member'.

I think Texas would also get a pass on the unwritten (although it may be on paper somewhere) rules of expansion for both the Big 10 and the SEC.

I think THE Ohio State University, Michigan, Penn State and possibly Northwestern would veto any special considerations for Texas. After all, they probably truly believe they are of a more cultured social status, don't you think? A malodorous bovine as a mascot? How crass can you get?

 

[Charleston Mountie]

I agree. ...which is why I made sure to write, 'equal member'.

I think Texas would also get a pass on the unwritten (although it may be on paper somewhere) rules of expansion for both the Big 10 and the SEC.

One thing is certain in all of this, is that rules can be broken. But in this case you have to ask yourself what would it take to break the rules and that can sometimes point you in the direction where you find the truth.

Would the Big Ten break with their traditions to invite Texas? If they thought Texas was in play and the SEC was going to snap them up if the Big Ten did not and the Big Ten thought they had more appeal to Texas than the SEC, perhaps they might break the rule.

But which conference would appeal more to Texas? The culture is decidedly in favor of the SEC. The style of play is decidedly in favor of the SEC and the geography is also in the favor of the SEC. So of the three biggest reason to go - besides money which is a moot point. The SEC wins all three - imo.

The Notre Dame thing with Texas? Texas does not love Notre Dame, Texas has and has had some people connected to their university that loves Notre Dame. That is the distinction that matters.

The appeal of the Big Ten to Texas has to be limited at best.

But can Texas go to the SEC? Had Texas left when Texas A&M did, Longhorns could state they took their version of Marshall with them because they had too, even if it wasn't true. Appearances matter. But several years after Texas A&M has left, Texas would basically be admitting that Texas A&M was right and they had to follow THEM!. Appearances matter!

I have stated it many times. Texans are smart about money and business except when it comes to their pride. There isn't enough money in the world to buy their pride and there is no business they want more than running that pride.

So to answer your question, could the Big Ten and/or the SEC make the exception? Sure, but they would not. Neither needs too and neither has anything to gain from adding Texas. Texas, because she is an 800 pound prima donna, is not unique to either conference. The only thing Texas could be purported to bring would tv markets but the SEC already has that covered and the Big Ten could fix that too with a lot less headache than having Texas and all of the drama baggage she drags behind her.

 

[Buckaineer]

lets be honest, any P5 conference would make an exception for Texas and their LHN if it came down to adding them.

You are mistaken. The Pac 12 wouldn't take the LHN. Its a nonstarter with the Big Ten or SEC.

The ACC would accept a ND type deal and they can keep their $15 mil. But then Texas gets about $4 mil per year for other sports and has to find a replacement for 7 games and basically eliminates their playoff shot.

 

[wvufootball1976]

So the Big 12 was a poor decision ?

Our inclusion didn't just fall in his lap....he worked hard to make it happen.

Plus...beer at home games... ...I mean come on....

Excellent point!