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Another Energy Company's willful disregard for the law

countryroads89

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Sep 6, 2013
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Oil Company Openly States They Will Defy Army Corps Order in

Standing Rock



http://thefreethoughtproject.com/pipeline-defy-army-corps-order-standing-roc

k/



Free Thought Project - 12/05/2016

Omaha District - Northwestern Division



Balking at an earlier decision by the Army Corps of Engineers, Energy

Transfer Partners - the company responsible for constructing the Dakota

Access Pipeline - says the denial of an easement necessary to drill under

the Missouri River is of no consequence for its plans to complete the

project.



According to a statement from Energy Transfer Partners and Sunoco Logistics,

which is acquiring ETP in a merger:



"As stated all along, ETP and SXL are fully committed to ensuring that this

vital project is brought to completion and fully expect to complete

construction of the pipeline without any additional rerouting in and around

Lake Oahe. Nothing this Administration has done today changes that in any

way."



In short, ETP will complete the Dakota Access Pipeline - no matter what the

federal government says.



Earlier on Sunday, celebrations erupted over the Army Corps' announcement

the permitting necessary for the Dakota Access Pipeline to pass beneath the

Missouri River's Lake Oahe reservoir would not be granted - a decision some

perceived would have direct implications for the future of the project.



Leery of such official decisions after a string of disappointments, however,

many water protectors immediately questioned whether ETP CEO Kelcy Warren

had contingency plans to ensure completion of the pipeline. Considering the

lengths ETP has undertaken with the Dakota Access Pipeline - even justifying

abhorrently brutal policing against unarmed protectors - news the project

will proceed unhindered hardly came as a shock. ETP states:



"In spite of consistently stating at every turn that the permit for the

crossing of the Missouri River at Lake Oahe granted in July 2016, comported

with all legal requirements, including the use of an environmental

assessment, rather than an environmental impact statement, the Army Corps

now seeks to engage in additional review and analysis of alternative

locations for the pipeline.



"The White House's directive today to the Corps for further delay is just

the latest in a series of overt and transparent political actions by an

administration which has abandoned the rule of law in favor of currying

favor with a narrow and extreme political constituency."



Technically speaking, ETP did perhaps follow the letter of the law - and

that fact both doesn't sit well with Indigenous water protectors who see the

U.S. government once again acting to exploit Native peoples on land never

officially ceded, but usurped, in the breaking of several treaties.



Indeed, to attain the desired path for Dakota Access, Energy Transfer

Partners was able to take land from reluctant private property owners

through eminent domain. Most controversy over the pipeline centers on the

contextually-striking fight by Native Americans to preserve the integrity of

their drinking water supply in North Dakota - but the fight to halt Dakota

Access also grips South Dakota, Iowa, and Illinois.



Unconfirmed reports claim ETP has opted to pay $50,000 per day in fines for

violating the Army Corps decision rather than sidelining the project for

months while awaiting conclusions of an environmental impact statement.



Politicians were quick to denounce the decision to deny the easement, and -

like Energy Transfer Partners - deemed the choice starkly political. North

Dakota Congressman Kevin Cramer excoriated the Army Corps' announcement,

asserting,



"I hoped even a lawless president wouldn't continue to ignore the rule of

law. However, it was becoming increasingly clear he was punting this issue

down the road. Today's unfortunate decision sends a very chilling signal to

others who want to build infrastructure in this country. Roads, bridges,

transmission lines, pipelines, wind farms and water lines will be very

difficult, if not impossible, to build when criminal behavior is rewarded

this way. In my conversation with Assistant Secretary of the Army Jo-Ellen

Darcy today, she was unable to give any legal reasons for the decision and

could not answer any questions about rerouting the pipeline. I'm encouraged

we will restore law and order next month when we get a President who will

not thumb his nose at the rule of law. I feel badly for the Corps of

Engineers because of the diligent work it did on this project, only to have

their Commander-in-Chief throw them under the bus. But he's been doing that

to the military for eight years, so why not one more time on his way out the

door."



Others quickly joined the tirade.



"It's long past time that a decision is made on the easement going under

Lake Oahe. This administration's delay in taking action - after I've pushed

the White House, Army Corps, and other federal agencies for months to make a

decision - means that today's move doesn't actually bring finality to the

project. The pipeline still remains in limbo. The incoming administration

already stated its support for the project and the courts have already

stated twice that it appeared the Corps followed the required process in

considering the permit," said Senator Heidi Heitkamp (ND) in a statement.



"For the next month and a half, nothing about this project will change. For

the immediate future, the safety of residents, protesters, law enforcement,

and workers remains my top priority as it should for everyone involved. As

some of the protesters have become increasingly violent and unlawful, and as

North Dakota's winter has already arrived - with a blizzard raging last week

through the area where protesters are located - I'm hoping now that

protesters will act responsibly to avoid endangering their health and

safety, and move off of the Corps land north of the Cannonball River."



Heitkamp, incidentally, met with President-Elect Donald Trump last week, to

the delight of Morton County Commission Chairman Cody Schulz, who noted:



"I sincerely hope Senator Heitkamp is able to make a direct plea to the new

Administration for the help and resources from the federal government that

are desperately needed to assist local law enforcement in their efforts to

provide public safety, and to expedite a decision on the final easement for

the Dakota Access pipeline so that our citizens may return to their normal

lives. We have seen nothing but foot-dragging and unhelpful directives from

the Obama administration. I trust Senator Heitkamp will use her meeting and

her influence to ensure that help is on the way for the people of North

Dakota when the President-Elect is sworn in on January 20th."



Questions also swirled concerning the nine-state, multiple agency coalition

of law enforcement led by the Morton County Sheriff's Department, which has

aggressively and barbarously policed the unarmed water protectors for

months, and if taxpayer funding could possibly be justified if ETP violates

the easement decision.



Standing Rock water protectors still reeling from Sunday's fleeting victory

against the pipeline now ironically face their own decisions about an

eviction notice from the Army Corps of Engineers and must choose whether or

not to vacate several camps north of the Cannonball River. Reports from the

camps say although a few people have indeed vacated the area, thousands more

have arrived to support the Standing Rock Sioux in just the past few days -

including more than 5,000 veterans.



With water protectors vowing to stay camped at Standing Rock until the

Dakota Access Pipeline is halted for good, and Energy Transfer Partners

openly dismissing the Army Corps of Engineers decision, a confluence of

polemic circumstances has crafted a powder keg near the Missouri River.
 
"In spite of consistently stating at every turn that the permit for the crossing of the Missouri River at Lake Oahe granted in July 2016, comported with all legal requirements, including the use of an environmental assessment, rather than an environmental impact statement, the Army Corps now seeks to engage in additional review and analysis of alternative locations for the pipeline."
Yup.
 
“In spite of consistently stating at every turn that the permit for the crossing of the Missouri River at Lake Oahe granted in July 2016, comported with all legal requirements, including the use of an environmental assessment, rather than an environmental impact statement, the Army Corps now seeks to engage in additional review and analysis of alternative locations for the pipeline.

“The White House’s directive today to the Corps for further delay is just the latest in a series of overt and transparent political actions by an administration which has abandoned the rule of law in favor of currying favor with a narrow and extreme political constituency.”

Technically speaking, ETP did perhaps follow the letter of the law — and that fact both doesn’t sit well with Indigenous water protectors who see the U.S. government once again acting to exploit Native peoples on land never officially ceded, but usurped, in the breaking of several treaties.

Indeed, to attain the desired path for Dakota Access, Energy Transfer Partners was able to take land from reluctant private property owners through eminent domain. Most controversy over the pipeline centers on the contextually-striking fight by Native Americans to preserve the integrity of their drinking water supply in North Dakota — but the fight to halt Dakota Access also grips South Dakota, Iowa, and Illinois.


In short, ETP followed the law. Obama changed the rules at the last minute. ETP is willing to absorb the $50,000 per day fines until Trump is in office. Trump has already stated the pipeline has his full approval. They invested $4B in the pipeline only to see Obama change the rules at the end to satisfy an radical environmental constituency. Typical Obama. He has no idea what a change like this does to an enormously expensive project. Banks bail. Investors bail.

Trump will solve this very soon after January 20th.
 
I had read an article someplace that stated that ETP and the ACE tried multiple, if not dozens of times to engage the tribes prior to this project and they never bothered to meet with them. Then the protests started once the project was well underway.

It's a complicated case Maude, lots of ins and outs and what have you's.
 
"As stated all along, ETP and SXL are fully committed to ensuring that this
vital project is brought to completion and fully expect to complete
construction of the pipeline without any additional rerouting in and around
Lake Oahe. Nothing this Administration has done today changes that in any
way."
In short, ETP will complete the Dakota Access Pipeline - no matter what the
federal government says.
 
"As stated all along, ETP and SXL are fully committed to ensuring that this
vital project is brought to completion and fully expect to complete
construction of the pipeline without any additional rerouting in and around
Lake Oahe. Nothing this Administration has done today changes that in any
way."
In short, ETP will complete the Dakota Access Pipeline - no matter what the
federal government says.
They have a permit. Why would the federal government step in?
 
"As stated all along, ETP and SXL are fully committed to ensuring that this
vital project is brought to completion and fully expect to complete
construction of the pipeline without any additional rerouting in and around
Lake Oahe. Nothing this Administration has done today changes that in any
way."
In short, ETP will complete the Dakota Access Pipeline - no matter what the
federal government says.
The problem is the federal government said one thing following its own protocol, then another based on a political outcome.
 
"As stated all along, ETP and SXL are fully committed to ensuring that this
vital project is brought to completion and fully expect to complete
construction of the pipeline without any additional rerouting in and around
Lake Oahe. Nothing this Administration has done today changes that in any
way."
In short, ETP will complete the Dakota Access Pipeline - no matter what the
federal government says.

Trump has spoken. The pipeline will be built. Obama reneged on the permits. After a $4B investment.
 
Permits can be rescinded in light of new findings or other violations. That's the law. that's how it works.
There were no new findings or violations. The Obama admin has tried this same BS many times and they usually get their asses kicked in court.
 
What is the new evidence? Other violations?

I'm not pretending to be an expert on this particular situation, just pointing out generalities where permits can be rescinded. Another poster made it sound like once a permit is granted, everything is a done deal.

It doesn't sound to me like the issue was properly vetted to begin with. There is potential disturbance of sacred Native American soil and a potential dam safety issue, since mining and pipelines are not allowed beneath dams and impoundments.
 
I'm not pretending to be an expert on this particular situation,

It doesn't sound to me like the issue was properly vetted to begin with. There is potential disturbance of sacred Native American soil and a potential dam safety issue, since mining and pipelines are not allowed beneath dams and impoundments.

Yeah, I am sure they were issued a permit by the ACOE with "mining" under a dam and dam safety issues. Get a clue.
 
I'm not pretending to be an expert on this particular situation, just pointing out generalities where permits can be rescinded. Another poster made it sound like once a permit is granted, everything is a done deal.

It doesn't sound to me like the issue was properly vetted to begin with. There is potential disturbance of sacred Native American soil and a potential dam safety issue, since mining and pipelines are not allowed beneath dams and impoundments.
It's political in nature meant to set up Trump to be the bad guy later. GHW Bush did a similar thing in sending troops into Somalia just before Clinton's first term. He campaigned that Clinton was ill-prepared to handle complex foreign policy. Then he created a sticky situation to hand over to Clinton in order to set him up to fail.
 
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I'm not pretending to be an expert on this particular situation, just pointing out generalities where permits can be rescinded. Another poster made it sound like once a permit is granted, everything is a done deal.

It doesn't sound to me like the issue was properly vetted to begin with. There is potential disturbance of sacred Native American soil and a potential dam safety issue, since mining and pipelines are not allowed beneath dams and impoundments.

You have zero idea what you are talking about. During the permitting process, the native Indians were invited to every meeting to voice concerns, register complaints, cite facts, and they never attended even one meeting. The permits were granted knowing all the issues you posted about above.

ETE invests $4B to build the pipeline and at the very end of the project, the Indians start a protest and the project is halted.
 
The pipeline is proposed to go beneath a lake impounded by a dam. Don't be an idiot.

And none of this has anything to do with what is happening today. These facts were known when the original permit was issued.
 
And none of this has anything to do with what is happening today. These facts were known when the original permit was issued.

Which is why the permit should have never been issued to begin with. Which is why they are looking into re-routing.
 
Which is why the permit should have never been issued to begin with. Which is why they are looking into re-routing.

That is simply not factual. They are relooking at it because of the Indian protests and nothing more. Trump will fix it in a New York second.
 
The pipeline is proposed to go beneath a lake impounded by a dam. Don't be an idiot.
I know this is probably going to be hard for you to understand but the ACOE probably already realized there was a lake and a dam maybe a few years before this project ever came up and they permitted the project accordingly. Using that as an excuse now is about as stupid as you telling me not to be an idiot when you are clearly dumber than a fukity fuk.
 
I can just see the Corp guys getting that comment and saying DOH....we missed that lake and dam. Yeah, but don't be an idiot.
 
Which is why the permit should have never been issued to begin with. Which is why they are looking into re-routing.
I can assure you, because the permit was already granted, there is no stopping this. The Gov't has no grounds on this one and moreover, if somehow in fantasyland they end up having to move the pipeline, the Gov't will be the ones that pay for it. It won't be the company. The price will end up being even more than the $4B listed.

Liberals, proving once again they don't understand economics.
 
I can assure you, because the permit was already granted, there is no stopping this.

You clearly have absolutely no clue about the regulatory process.

There have been mines that had permits revoked because their actual practice did not match what they submitted in their environmental analysis.
 
You clearly have absolutely no clue about the regulatory process.

There have been mines that had permits revoked because their actual practice did not match what they submitted in their environmental analysis.
But I read nothing that suggests that's what's happened here.
 
I can assure you, because the permit was already granted, there is no stopping this. The Gov't has no grounds on this one and moreover, if somehow in fantasyland they end up having to move the pipeline, the Gov't will be the ones that pay for it. It won't be the company. The price will end up being even more than the $4B listed.

Liberals, proving once again they don't understand economics.


If it ends up being moved, the government does not pay for it, sweetheart. That's not how it works. [laughing]

And you do understand that the total cost estimate is $4B? Rerouting a small portion won't cost nearly that.
 
I can just see the Corp guys getting that comment and saying DOH....we missed that lake and dam. Yeah, but don't be an idiot.

"The Department of the Army will not approve an easement that would allow the proposed Dakota Access Pipeline to cross under Lake Oahe in North Dakota," said a statement on the US Army website, citing the Assistant Secretary for Civil Works, Jo-Ellen Darcy.

Sometimes, regulators, the ones responsible for reviewing the permit applications, do not talk to engineers.
 
If it ends up being moved, the government does not pay for it, sweetheart. That's not how it works. [laughing]

And you do understand that the total cost estimate is $4B? Rerouting a small portion won't cost nearly that.

The pipeline will be built. Trump is inaugurated on January 20. He has already stated that he is in favor of the pipelines completion.
 
You clearly have absolutely no clue about the regulatory process.

There have been mines that had permits revoked because their actual practice did not match what they submitted in their environmental analysis.
That has nothing to do with this situation.
 
If it ends up being moved, the government does not pay for it, sweetheart. That's not how it works. [laughing]

And you do understand that the total cost estimate is $4B? Rerouting a small portion won't cost nearly that.
The government can be forced to pay expenses when acting in bad faith in permitting. It happened in the next town over. An independent pharmacy submitted plans for a new building and adjoining parking lot and permitted to build. The parking lot was complete and the interior of the building was being completed when they received a cease and desist. The city planners decided that an already-existing plan to add two lanes on the street in front of the new pharmacy would required a portion of the new parking lot. The distance of the build's front from the street would then be in violation of the city code. The pharmacist took the city to court, then settled for $4mil. The city did take a portion of the lot. The $4mil ostensibly paid a penalty for delayed opening, lawyers fees, and the purchase of adjoining property for a new lot.
 
With all due respect, you have no idea. ETE says they are not diverting and I suspect Trump will support them.

It's not Trump's call. [laughing] There are laws, rules and regulations. You know, the ones Trump said he was going to be all about "law and order".

And yes, I do know what I'm talking about. I know people in the regulatory function.

Only on this board can you have a "conversation" with a complete moron that knows absolutely nothing about what they are talking about and they tell you how little you know. [laughing] And when shown they are completely wrong, they continue to hold onto the hope of being right and argue.
 
The government can be forced to pay expenses when acting in bad faith in permitting. It happened in the next town over. An independent pharmacy submitted plans for a new building and adjoining parking lot and permitted to build. The parking lot was complete and the interior of the building was being completed when they received a cease and desist. The city planners decided that an already-existing plan to add two lanes on the street in front of the new pharmacy would required a portion of the new parking lot. The distance of the build's front from the street would then be in violation of the city code. The pharmacist took the city to court, then settled for $4mil. The city did take a portion of the lot. The $4mil ostensibly paid a penalty for delayed opening, lawyers fees, and the purchase of adjoining property for a new lot.

That's a city government, not the US government. And the burden would be to prove the US government acted in a reckless manner and you would have to overcome sovereign immunity.
 
It's not Trump's call. [laughing] There are laws, rules and regulations. You know, the ones Trump said he was going to be all about "law and order".

And yes, I do know what I'm talking about. I know people in the regulatory function.

Only on this board can you have a "conversation" with a complete moron that knows absolutely nothing about what they are talking about and they tell you how little you know. [laughing] And when shown they are completely wrong, they continue to hold onto the hope of being right and argue.

I hate to tell you this but Obama forced the Army Corps of Engineers to do this, Trump will on in un enforce it.
 
Only on this board can you have a "conversation" with a complete moron that knows absolutely nothing about what they are talking about and they tell you how little you know. [laughing] And when shown they are completely wrong, they continue to hold onto the hope of being right and argue.

Like every time you try to discuss the court system, or engineering or permitting to me?
 
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