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Al Gore admits that Paris would not have solved "the problem."

Boom, what part of the fact that the Accord does almost nothing to address the "problem." If it is ineffective and negative toward the U.S. economy and our workers, and it is voluntary, why stay in? It makes ZERO sense. And yes, this is the definition of insanity.

I have read your definition which comes from Einstein, I believe. But this is just as insane.
A lowering of temperature in any degree is not ineffective, but the key point here is that we will begin reversing the trend. That's not ineffective, imo, that's absolutely necessary. We need to make a larger reversal to be sure, but to begin the process is substantial. In addition, this is voluntary....but it's also most all nations in the world standing together for a common cause....I don't think that's insignificant at all.

In addition, I reject the assertion that temp rise will only be reduced .02 degrees, as opposed to the full 2 degrees that is asserted by the accord. As nations continue to develop alternative energy sources.

I also reject the assertion that the Paris accord will not create jobs in green energy and help spur innovation and development at a rate higher than the market.
 
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Op, let me give you an example of atheist scientists. Scientists first came up with the static universe theory. Then we found the universe continue to expand and we came up with the Big Bang theory. The problem, however, are several fold. We have a magnetic Monopole problem.
The universe should not be flat given the Big Bang. It is flat, not curved. We should be able to see the Big Bang or at least its beginnings, but the further we look back, nothing. The galaxy is not uniform, big problem for Big Bang. We must have dark matter and dark energy for the universe to exist. We can't find any. There are many more.

The biggest problem is that the universe is so delicately balanced, that a single explosion could not possibly have created this kind of balance. The mathematical odds make it all but impossible. Thus atheist scientists had to come up with another theory to combat this. Thus the multi-universes theory that holds that universes are being created all the time (like water boiling in a pot creating bubbles and the bubbles represent universes). No proof whatsoever, but they are going with it. Why? Because they can''t bring themselves to acknowledge a designer. So they make up theories to account for things the Big Bang does not account for.
Oh great, now you're going to try to explain the origin of the universe to everybody? lol Is there anything that you're not an authority on?
 
Mixing scientific theory with religious components is a failure in recognizing the essence of scientific theory. You're asserting that the components of the Big Bang are measurable, have been measured, analyzed and found to be false?

The Big Bang has many, many holes in it. But you're missing my point boom. The designer of the universe could have used the Big Bang to create the universe. I am agnostic when it comes to the Big Bang. I could care less whether it is true or false since it does nothing to change the fact that the designer could have employed that method.

However, the Big Bang has many problems as I have pointed out. Scientists cannot explain those problems. And the biggest problem, a delicately balanced universe which would be mathematically impossible to create from a Big Bang caused scientist without any evidence to posit the multi-universe theory. They did so, not for scientific purity but out of their atheism. That is not science. That is searching desperately for something to explain away a designed.
 
A lowering of temperature in any degree is not ineffective, but the key point here is that we will begin reversing the trend. That's not ineffective, imo, that's absolutely necessary. We need to make a larger reversal to be sure, but to begin the process is substantial. In addition, this is voluntary....but it's also most all nations in the world standing together for a common cause....I don't think that's insignificant at all.

In addition, I reject the assertion that temp rise will only be reduced .02 degrees, as opposed to the full 2 degrees that is asserted by the accord. As nations continue to develop alternative energy sources.

I also reject the assertion that the Paris accord will not create jobs in green energy and help spur innovation and development at a rate higher than the market.

You and I have very different definitions of insignificant. And remember, this very, very slight reduction over an 80 year period may never occur since the Accord is voluntary. This assumes that all nations comply. I don't trust the Chinese or the Indians or many other countries. The Accord is fatally flawed.

We have made great strides in reducing pollution and even CO2 without Paris. We can continue to innovate, create, solve these issues as we have with market forces and not greatly harm our country, our economy, our jobs or give away trillions of dollars to others.

Obama promised green jobs. They never materialized in any significant way. Let the market place decide. Central planning does not work. When the technology is ready, American will change, but not before. Why force it. Stop the subsidies to all forms of energy.
 
Oh great, now you're going to try to explain the origin of the universe to everybody? lol Is there anything that you're not an authority on?

The origins of the universe are simple. The universe was designed, perfectly designed. Life was designed.
 
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Great, go tell them that in the journals and then they'll all know the truth. Oops, I forgot, they're incapable of being enlightened because they're evil atheists.

BTW, the scientist that came up with the idea that the Universe was expanding was also a Catholic priest. And when the Big Bang was first proposed the Catholic Church (and probably some other religious groups too) took it as proof of the Genesis account of the creation of the Universe.

Some scientists are atheists and some aren't but it doesn't matter except to people like you. "Acknowledging a designer" is outside the purview of science. If you acknowledge a designer then whatever it is you're doing, it isn't science.

I'm sure one could look up details about what you wrote but since you could have easily done it but didn't what's the point of me doing it?

Why is acknowledging the theory of a designer outside of science? I thought science was a search for the truth?
 
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The Big Bang has many, many holes in it. But you're missing my point boom. The designer of the universe could have used the Big Bang to create the universe. I am agnostic when it comes to the Big Bang. I could care less whether it is true or false since it does nothing to change the fact that the designer could have employed that method.

However, the Big Bang has many problems as I have pointed out. Scientists cannot explain those problems. And the biggest problem, a delicately balanced universe which would be mathematically impossible to create from a Big Bang caused scientist without any evidence to posit the multi-universe theory. They did so, not for scientific purity but out of their atheism. That is not science. That is searching desperately for something to explain away a designed.
No Paxxx, it's not. It's using science to try to understand the formation of the universe. It's NOT using one Biblical text to answer scientific hypothesis. There must be a separation between science and religion, or else it's like selecting a guilty person prior to an investigation---it destroys the ability for the investigators to discover truth.

I believe in something beyond scientific explaination, but that belief is also beyond any human understand as well. The concept of what is, was, ever will be and ever was.....is on a level our minds can't fathom.....at least yet. But our minds expand with science, our souls expand with religion. There's a difference.
 
Why is acknowledging the theory of a designer outside of science? I thought science was a search for the truth?
Science is the search for truth of how things work. Religion is the search for truth to why things work. They should be independent.
 
No Paxxx, it's not. It's using science to try to understand the formation of the universe. It's NOT using one Biblical text to answer scientific hypothesis. There must be a separation between science and religion, or else it's like selecting a guilty person prior to an investigation---it destroys the ability for the investigators to discover truth.

I believe in something beyond scientific explaination, but that belief is also beyond any human understand as well. The concept of what is, was, ever will be and ever was.....is on a level our minds can't fathom.....at least yet. But our minds expand with science, our souls expand with religion. There's a difference.

I am not talking religion boom. I am talking a designer. That is far different. A designer does not have to be religious or the God of the Bible. You are conflating the two.

For a scientist to acknowledge the perfection of the universe, the improbability of the Big Bang, gravity, etc., discussion of the possibility of a designer is a search for the truth.
 
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Tell us more, we need more of your knowledgeable. lol smh and that's just solar!
Solar Employs More People In U.S. Electricity Generation Than Oil, Coal And Gas Combined
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...al-and-gas-combined-infographic/#36ac70828000

Do you want to compare all fossil fuel employment to that of solar? LMAO. Do you want to compare the wages in the fossil fuel industry for low educated men and women? LMAO. Nice try.

Just the oil and gas industry:

Industry supports 9.8 million jobs or 5.6 percent of total U.S. employment, according to PwC. In 2012, the unconventional oil and natural gas value chain and energy-related chemicals activity together supported more than 2.1 million jobs, according to IHS – a number that's projected to reach 3.9 million by 2025.
 
Yes, it is my opinion and I have lots of evidence to support that opinion.
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You and I have very different definitions of insignificant. And remember, this very, very slight reduction over an 80 year period may never occur since the Accord is voluntary. This assumes that all nations comply. I don't trust the Chinese or the Indians or many other countries. The Accord is fatally flawed.

We have made great strides in reducing pollution and even CO2 without Paris. We can continue to innovate, create, solve these issues as we have with market forces and not greatly harm our country, our economy, our jobs or give away trillions of dollars to others.

Obama promised green jobs. They never materialized in any significant way. Let the market place decide. Central planning does not work. When the technology is ready, American will change, but not before. Why force it. Stop the subsidies to all forms of energy.
I understand Pruitt's talking points, and I agree the US has done well (esp over the last 8!) to change. But other nations will not, unless there is incentive. Essentially China and India, with their populations, will inflict the same type of damage we did over the last 50 years. This is why 1: the US needs to acknowledge it's heavy hand in the global problem, and 2: we need to incentivize an expedited change in these nations as well.....so the accord does those two things.
 
Why is acknowledging the theory of a designer outside of science? I thought science was a search for the truth?

I should have worded it more carefully. Acknowledging the supernatural is outside of science. Science is the investigation of the natural world. If you assume a designer of the universe is supernatural then such a designer is outside of science.
 
I understand Pruitt's talking points, and I agree the US has done well (esp over the last 8!) to change. But other nations will not, unless there is incentive. Essentially China and India, with their populations, will inflict the same type of damage we did over the last 50 years. This is why 1: the US needs to acknowledge it's heavy hand in the global problem, and 2: we need to incentivize an expedited change in these nations as well.....so the accord does those two things.

What incentives Boom? Trillions of dollars? And they can pull out or simply change their minds at a moments notice?

The Accord does no such thing. It leaves it up to China and India to set their own goals with no enforcement and they can change those goals at a moments notice. The key is to make green energy cheaper than fossil fuels. Then countries will change.

We can't as a country, transfer trillions to dollars, hurt the U.S. economy dramatically with no guarantee of success.
 
I am not talking religion boom. I am talking a designer. That is far different. A designer does not have to be religious or the God of the Bible. You are conflating the two.

For a scientist to acknowledge the perfection of the universe, the improbability of the Big Bang, gravity, etc., discussion of the possibility of a designer is a search for the truth.
But we understand the designer of human existence don't we? Science helped us with that understanding. There are imperfections in the universe and here on Earth as well. Again you're asserting investigators START with the guilty party and work the investigation to prove the guilt.
 
I should have worded it more carefully. Acknowledging the supernatural is outside of science. Science is the investigation of the natural world. If you assume a designer of the universe is supernatural then such a designer is outside of science.

I disagree. Science is a search for the truth. To acknowledge that the universe is a perfectly designed entity capable of supporting life and that it may have been designed is a theory. Just like other theories. Even Richard Dawkins acknowledges the possibility of a designer.
 
What incentives Boom? Trillions of dollars? And they can pull out or simply change their minds at a moments notice?

The Accord does no such thing. It leaves it up to China and India to set their own goals with no enforcement and they can change those goals at a moments notice. The key is to make green energy cheaper than fossil fuels. Then countries will change.

We can't as a country, transfer trillions to dollars, hurt the U.S. economy dramatically with no guarantee of success.
I understand the fear. I don't think you understand the fear of not making this reversal happen, that I have. And that's the heart of the disagreement.
 
But we understand the designer of human existence don't we? Science helped us with that understanding. There are imperfections in the universe and here on Earth as well. Again you're asserting investigators START with the guilty party and work the investigation to prove the guilt.

What or who is the designer of human existence? Evolution is still an unproven theory. The universe is so delicately balanced, a Big Bang is mathematically impossible. Too many other problems as well, dark matter and dark energy being among them.

I am suggesting many scientists look for ways to disprove a designer rather than seeking the truth.
 
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I understand the fear. I don't think you understand the fear of not making this reversal happen, that I have. And that's the heart of the disagreement.

Boom, the Accords won't work. They won't solve the problem you believe exists. Why waste trillions of dollars? Isn't it better to innovate, create and ultimately make green energy cheaper than fossil fuels? The smartest man on this planet takes this same approach. He believes in 50 years or so, we will have solved the green energy dilemma (e.g. cost and effectiveness). Why get such a modest change in temperatures in 80 years. Focus on research and innovation instead.
 
I disagree. Science is a search for the truth. To acknowledge that the universe is a perfectly designed entity capable of supporting life and that it may have been designed is a theory. Just like other theories. Even Richard Dawkins acknowledges the possibility of a designer.

Science is a search for truth in the natural world. It does not and cannot address the supernatural. And re. your comment in another post, evolution is proven, in the minds of scientists at least, and it has been for a long time. I didn't realize you denied evolution but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
 
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Science is a search for truth in the natural world. It does not and cannot address the supernatural. And re. your comment in another post, evolution is proven, in the minds of scientists at least, and it has been for a long time. I didn't realize you denied evolution but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

I said that evolution (macro evolution) meaning evolution from one species to another is not proven and is a theory. Micro evolution, the adaptation of a species is proven.

I am agnostic on evolution. Atheists believe evolution disproves a creator, that is wrong. A creator would have used any method to create life, including evolution. I am simply stating a fact. Macro evolution has not been proven.
 
Op, let me give you an example of atheist scientists. Scientists first came up with the static universe theory. Then we found the universe continue to expand and we came up with the Big Bang theory. The problem, however, are several fold. We have a magnetic Monopole problem.
The universe should not be flat given the Big Bang. It is flat, not curved. We should be able to see the Big Bang or at least its beginnings, but the further we look back, nothing. The galaxy is not uniform, big problem for Big Bang. We must have dark matter and dark energy for the universe to exist. We can't find any. There are many more.

The biggest problem is that the universe is so delicately balanced, that a single explosion could not possibly have created this kind of balance. The mathematical odds make it all but impossible. Thus atheist scientists had to come up with another theory to combat this. Thus the multi-universes theory that holds that universes are being created all the time (like water boiling in a pot creating bubbles and the bubbles represent universes). No proof whatsoever, but they are going with it. Why? Because they can''t bring themselves to acknowledge a designer. So they make up theories to account for things the Big Bang does not account for.

In two very good paragraphs Pax you just insulted Op2's take on things and his overall assessment of my "answers" to our origins.

In post # 70 Op2 has all of the answers and refutes all of the other explanations you I or any believer in creation offers:

quote: "You have no idea what scientists believe or why they believe because you let religion not only run your spiritual life but you also let it determine what you think is true about the natural world".

He at least got the part about me right!

I'm not sure why he puts so much "Faith" in scientists who can't explain any of what you've presented to him in your post. Maybe he trusts their inability to explain what they see more than he trusts his ability to believe what he sees is creation?
 
I said that evolution (macro evolution) meaning evolution from one species to another is not proven and is a theory. Micro evolution, the adaptation of a species is proven.

I am agnostic on evolution. Atheists believe evolution disproves a creator, that is wrong. A creator would have used any method to create life, including evolution. I am simply stating a fact. Macro evolution has not been proven.

Modern science believes and acknowledges macro evolution is proven and I think it has actually been observed directly although it was proven long before that.

You're right that if a Creator exists It could have used any method It wanted to create life. That gets into the realm of the supernatural. You can discuss and debate and a supernatural did or didn't do. It's interesting to do but it's not science.

But you need to keep proven science in mind if you want to have a useful discussion. So before evolution is proven you can say "God did it so-and-so way" but after evolution is proven you can no longer pick and choose how God did it. You have to instead say "God was behind evolution." Of course, that is all from the POV of a philosophical discussion though. You still can't prove it scientifically (that God was behind it I mean).
 
Modern science believes and acknowledges macro evolution is proven and I think it has actually been observed directly although it was proven long before that.

You're right that if a Creator exists It could have used any method It wanted to create life. That gets into the realm of the supernatural. You can discuss and debate and a supernatural did or didn't do. It's interesting to do but it's not science.

But you need to keep proven science in mind if you want to have a useful discussion. So before evolution is proven you can say "God did it so-and-so way" but after evolution is proven you can no longer pick and choose how God did it. You have to instead say "God was behind evolution." Of course, that is all from the POV of a philosophical discussion though. You still can't prove it scientifically (that God was behind it I mean).

Macro evolution is not proven: I am sure you can provide examples where scientists say it is, but as you can see not all scientists are in agreement. Thus unproven and still debated.

The Scientific Case Against Evolution
by Henry M. Morris, Ph.D.
Belief in evolution is a remarkable phenomenon. It is a belief passionately defended by the scientific establishment, despite the lack of any observable scientific evidence for macroevolution (that is, evolution from one distinct kind of organism into another). This odd situation is briefly documented here by citing recent statements from leading evolutionists admitting their lack of proof. These statements inadvertently show that evolution on any significant scale does not occur at present, and never happened in the past, and could never happen at all.

Evolution Is Not Happening Now
First of all, the lack of a case for evolution is clear from the fact that no one has ever seen it happen. If it were a real process, evolution should still be occurring, and there should be many "transitional" forms that we could observe. What we see instead, of course, is an array of distinct "kinds" of plants and animals with many varieties within each kind, but with very clear and -- apparently -- unbridgeable gaps between the kinds. That is, for example, there are many varieties of dogs and many varieties of cats, but no "dats" or "cogs." Such variation is often called microevolution, and these minor horizontal (or downward) changes occur fairly often, but such changes are not true "vertical" evolution.

Evolutionary geneticists have often experimented on fruit flies and other rapidly reproducing species to induce mutational changes hoping they would lead to new and better species, but these have all failed to accomplish their goal. No truly new species has ever been produced, let alone a new "basic kind."

A current leading evolutionist, Jeffrey Schwartz, professor of anthropology at the University of Pittsburgh, has recently acknowledged that:

. . . it was and still is the case that, with the exception of Dobzhansky's claim about a new species of fruit fly, the formation of a new species, by any mechanism, has never been observed.1
The scientific method traditionally has required experimental observation and replication. The fact that macroevolution (as distinct from microevolution) has never been observed would seem to exclude it from the domain of true science. Even Ernst Mayr, the dean of living evolutionists, longtime professor of biology at Harvard, who has alleged that evolution is a "simple fact," nevertheless agrees that it is an "historical science" for which "laws and experiments are inappropriate techniques"2 by which to explain it. One can never actually see evolution in action.

Evolution Never Happened in the Past
Evolutionists commonly answer the above criticism by claiming that evolution goes too slowly for us to see it happening today. They used to claim that the real evidence for evolution was in the fossil record of the past, but the fact is that the billions of known fossils do not include a single unequivocal transitional form with transitional structures in the process of evolving.

Given that evolution, according to Darwin, was in a continual state of motion . . . it followed logically that the fossil record should be rife with examples of transitional forms leading from the less to the more evolved.3

Even those who believe in rapid evolution recognize that a considerable number of generations would be required for one distinct "kind" to evolve into another more complex kind. There ought, therefore, to be a considerable number of true transitional structures preserved in the fossils -- after all, there are billions of non-transitional structures there! But (with the exception of a few very doubtful creatures such as the controversial feathered dinosaurs and the alleged walking whales), they are not there.

Instead of filling in the gaps in the fossil record with so-called missing links, most paleontologists found themselves facing a situation in which there were only gaps in the fossil record, with no evidence of transformational intermediates between documented fossil species.4

The entire history of evolution from the evolution of life from non-life to the evolution of vertebrates from invertebrates to the evolution of man from the ape is strikingly devoid of intermediates: the links are all missing in the fossil record, just as they are in the present world.

With respect to the origin of life, a leading researcher in this field, Leslie Orgel, after noting that neither proteins nor nucleic acids could have arisen without the other, concludes:

And so, at first glance, one might have to conclude that life could never, in fact, have originated by chemical means.5
Being committed to total evolution as he is, Dr. Orgel cannot accept any such conclusion as that. Therefore, he speculates that RNA may have come first, but then he still has to admit that:

The precise events giving rise to the RNA world remain unclear. . . . investigators have proposed many hypotheses, but evidence in favor of each of them is fragmentary at best.6
Translation: "There is no known way by which life could have arisen naturalistically." Unfortunately, two generations of students have been taught that Stanley Miller's famous experiment on a gaseous mixture, practically proved the naturalistic origin of life. But not so!

Miller put the whole thing in a ball, gave it an electric charge, and waited. He found that amino acids and other fundamental complex molecules were accumulating at the bottom of the apparatus. His discovery gave a huge boost to the scientific investigation of the origin of life. Indeed, for some time it seemed like creation of life in a test tube was within reach of experimental science. Unfortunately, such experiments have not progressed much further than the original prototype, leaving us with a sour aftertaste from the primordial soup.7

Neither is there any clue as to how the one-celled organisms of the primordial world could have evolved into the vast array of complex multi-celled invertebrates of the Cambrian period. Even dogmatic evolutionist Gould admits that:

The Cambrian explosion was the most remarkable and puzzling event in the history of life.8
Equally puzzling, however, is how some invertebrate creature in the ancient ocean, with all its "hard parts" on the outside, managed to evolve into the first vertebrate -- that is, the first fish-- with its hard parts all on the inside.

Yet the transition from spineless invertebrates to the first backboned fishes is still shrouded in mystery, and many theories abound.9

Other gaps are abundant, with no real transitional series anywhere. A very bitter opponent of creation science, paleontologist, Niles Eldredge, has acknowledged that there is little, if any, evidence of evolutionary transitions in the fossil record. Instead, things remain the same!

It is a simple ineluctable truth that virtually all members of a biota remain basically stable, with minor fluctuations, throughout their durations. . . .10

So how do evolutionists arrive at their evolutionary trees from fossils of oganisms which didn't change during their durations?

Fossil discoveries can muddle over attempts to construct simple evolutionary trees -- fossils from key periods are often not intermediates, but rather hodge podges of defining features of many different groups. . . . Generally, it seems that major groups are not assembled in a simple linear or progressive manner -- new features are often "cut and pasted" on different groups at different times.11

As far as ape/human intermediates are concerned, the same is true, although anthropologists have been eagerly searching for them for many years. Many have been proposed, but each has been rejected in turn.

All that paleoanthropologists have to show for more than 100 years of digging are remains from fewer than 2000 of our ancestors. They have used this assortment of jawbones, teeth and fossilized scraps, together with molecular evidence from living species, to piece together a line of human descent going back 5 to 8 million years to the time when humans and chimpanzees diverged from a common ancestor.12

Anthropologists supplemented their extremely fragmentary fossil evidence with DNA and other types of molecular genetic evidence from living animals to try to work out an evolutionary scenario that will fit. But this genetic evidence really doesn't help much either, for it contradicts fossil evidence. Lewin notes that:

The overall effect is that molecular phylogenetics is by no means as straightforward as its pioneers believed. . . . The Byzantine dynamics of genome change has many other consequences for molecular phylogenetics, including the fact that different genes tell different stories.13
Summarizing the genetic data from humans, another author concludes, rather pessimistically:

Even with DNA sequence data, we have no direct access to the processes of evolution, so objective reconstruction of the vanished past can be achieved only by creative imagination.14
Since there is no real scientific evidence that evolution is occurring at present or ever occurred in the past, it is reasonable to conclude that evolution is not a fact of science, as many claim. In fact, it is not even science at all, but an arbitrary system built upon faith in universal naturalism.

Actually, these negative evidences against evolution are, at the same time, strong positive evidences for special creation. They are, in fact, specific predictions based on the creation model of origins.

Creationists would obviously predict ubiquitous gaps between created kinds, though with many varieties capable of arising within each kind, in order to enable each basic kind to cope with changing environments without becoming extinct. Creationists also would anticipate that any "vertical changes" in organized complexity would be downward, since the Creator (by definition) would create things correctly to begin with. Thus, arguments and evidences against evolution are, at the same time, positive evidences for creation.

The Equivocal Evidence from Genetics
Nevertheless, because of the lack of any direct evidence for evolution, evolutionists are increasingly turning to dubious circumstantial evidences, such as similarities in DNA or other biochemical components of organisms as their "proof" that evolution is a scientific fact. A number of evolutionists have even argued that DNA itself is evidence for evolution since it is common to all organisms. More often is the argument used that similar DNA structures in two different organisms proves common evolutionary ancestry.

Neither argument is valid. There is no reason whatever why the Creator could not or would not use the same type of genetic code based on DNA for all His created life forms. This is evidence for intelligent design and creation, not evolution.

The most frequently cited example of DNA commonality is the human/chimpanzee "similarity," noting that chimpanzees have more than 90% of their DNA the same as humans. This is hardly surprising, however, considering the many physiological resemblances between people and chimpanzees. Why shouldn't they have similar DNA structures in comparison, say, to the DNA differences between men and spiders?

Similarities -- whether of DNA, anatomy, embryonic development, or anything else -- are better explained in terms of creation by a common Designer than by evolutionary relationship. The great differences between organisms are of greater significance than the similarities, and evolutionism has no explanation for these if they all are assumed to have had the same ancestor. How could these great gaps between kinds ever arise at all, by any natural process?

The apparently small differences between human and chimpanzee DNA obviously produce very great differences in their respective anatomies, intelligence, etc. The superficial similarities between all apes and human beings are nothing compared to the differences in any practical or observable sense.

Nevertheless, evolutionists, having largely become disenchanted with the fossil record as a witness for evolution because of the ubiquitous gaps where there should be transitions, recently have been promoting DNA and other genetic evidence as proof of evolution. However, as noted above by Roger Lewin, this is often inconsistent with, not only the fossil record, but also with the comparative morphology of the creatures. Lewin also mentions just a few typical contradictions yielded by this type of evidence in relation to more traditional Darwinian "proofs."

The elephant shrew, consigned by traditional analysis to the order insectivores . . . is in fact more closely related to . . . the true elephant. Cows are more closely related to dolphins than they are to horses. The duckbilled platypus . . . is on equal evolutionary footing with . . . kangaroos and koalas.15

There are many even more bizarre comparisons yielded by this approach.

The abundance of so-called "junk DNA" in the genetic code also has been offered as a special type of evidence for evolution, especially those genes which they think have experienced mutations, sometimes called "pseudogenes."16 However, evidence is accumulating rapidly today that these supposedly useless genes do actually perform useful functions.

Enough genes have already been uncovered in the genetic midden to show that what was once thought to be waste is definitely being transmitted into scientific code.17

It is thus wrong to decide that junk DNA, even the socalled "pseudogenes," have no function. That is merely an admission of ignorance and an object for fruitful research. Like the socalled "vestigial organs" in man, once considered as evidence of evolution but now all known to have specific uses, so the junk DNA and pseudogenes most probably are specifically useful to the organism, whether or not those uses have yet been discovered by scientists.

At the very best this type of evidence is strictly circumstantial and can be explained just as well in terms of primeval creation supplemented in some cases by later deterioration, just as expected in the creation model.

The real issue is, as noted before, whether there is any observable evidence that evolution is occurring now or has ever occurred in the past. As we have seen, even evolutionists have to acknowledge that this type of real scientific evidence for evolution does not exist.

A good question to ask is: Why are all observable evolutionary changes either horizontal and trivial (so-called microevolution) or downward toward deterioration and extinction? The answer seems to be found in the universally applicable laws of the science of thermodynamics.

Evolution Could Never Happen at All
The main scientific reason why there is no evidence for evolution in either the present or the past (except in the creative imagination of evolutionary scientists) is because one of the most fundamental laws of nature precludes it. The law of increasing entropy -- also known as the second law of thermodynamics -- stipulates that all systems in the real world tend to go "downhill," as it were, toward disorganization and decreased complexity.

This law of entropy is, by any measure, one of the most universal, bestproved laws of nature. It applies not only in physical and chemical systems, but also in biological and geological systems -- in fact, in all systems, without exception.

No exception to the second law of thermodynamics has ever been found -- not even a tiny one. Like conservation of energy (the "first law"), the existence of a law so precise and so independent of details of models must have a logical foundation that is independent of the fact that matter is composed of interacting particles.18
The author of this quote is referring primarily to physics, but he does point out that the second law is "independent of details of models." Besides, practically all evolutionary biologists are reductionists -- that is, they insist that there are no "vitalist" forces in living systems, and that all biological processes are explicable in terms of physics and chemistry. That being the case, biological processes also must operate in accordance with the laws of thermodynamics, and practically all biologists acknowledge this.

Evolutionists commonly insist, however, that evolution is a fact anyhow, and that the conflict is resolved by noting that the earth is an "open system," with the incoming energy from the sun able to sustain evolution throughout the geological ages in spite of the natural tendency of all systems to deteriorate toward disorganization. That is how an evolutionary entomologist has dismissed W. A. Dembski's impressive recent book, Intelligent Design. This scientist defends what he thinks is "natural processes' ability to increase complexity" by noting what he calls a "flaw" in "the arguments against evolution based on the second law of thermodynamics." And what is this flaw?

Although the overall amount of disorder in a closed system cannot decrease, local order within a larger system can increase even without the actions of an intelligent agent.19
This naive response to the entropy law is typical of evolutionary dissimulation. While it is true that local order can increase in an open system if certain conditions are met, the fact is that evolution does not meet those conditions. Simply saying that the earth is open to the energy from the sun says nothing about how that raw solar heat is converted into increased complexity in any system, open or closed.

The fact is that the best known and most fundamental equation of thermodynamics says that the influx of heat into an open system will increase the entropy of that system, not decrease it. All known cases of decreased entropy (or increased organization) in open systems involve a guiding program of some sort and one or more energy conversion mechanisms.

Evolution has neither of these. Mutations are not "organizing" mechanisms, but disorganizing (in accord with the second law). They are commonly harmful, sometimes neutral, but never beneficial (at least as far as observed mutations are concerned). Natural selection cannot generate order, but can only "sieve out" the disorganizing mutations presented to it, thereby conserving the existing order, but never generating new order. In principle, it may be barely conceivable that evolution could occur in open systems, in spite of the tendency of all systems to disintegrate sooner or later. But no one yet has been able to show that it actually has the ability to overcome this universal tendency, and that is the basic reason why there is still no bona fide proof of evolution, past or present.

From the statements of evolutionists themselves, therefore, we have learned that there is no real scientific evidence for real evolution. The only observable evidence is that of very limited horizontal (or downward) changes within strict limits.

Evolution is Religion -- Not Science
In no way does the idea of particles-to-people evolution meet the long-accepted criteria of a scientific theory. There are no such evolutionary transitions that have ever been observed in the fossil record of the past; and the universal law of entropy seems to make it impossible on any significant scale.

Evolutionists claim that evolution is a scientific fact, but they almost always lose scientific debates with creationist scientists. Accordingly, most evolutionists now decline opportunities for scientific debates, preferring instead to make unilateral attacks on creationists.

Scientists should refuse formal debates because they do more harm than good, but scientists still need to counter the creationist message.20
The question is, just why do they need to counter the creationist message? Why are they so adamantly committed to anti-creationism?

The fact is that evolutionists believe in evolution because they want to. It is their desire at all costs to explain the origin of everything without a Creator. Evolutionism is thus intrinsically an atheistic religion. Some may prefer to call it humanism, and "new age" evolutionists place it in the context of some form of pantheism, but they all amount to the same thing. Whether atheism or humanism (or even pantheism), the purpose is to eliminate a personal God from any active role in the origin of the universe and all its components, including man.

The core of the humanistic philosophy is naturalism -- the proposition that the natural world proceeds according to its own internal dynamics, without divine or supernatural control or guidance, and that we human beings are creations of that process. It is instructive to recall that the philosophers of the early humanistic movement debated as to which term more adequately described their position: humanism or naturalism. The two concepts are complementary and inseparable.21

Since both naturalism and humanism exclude God from science or any other active function in the creation or maintenance of life and the universe in general, it is very obvious that their position is nothing but atheism. And atheism, no less than theism, is a religion! Even doctrinaire-atheistic evolutionist Richard Dawkins admits that atheism cannot be proved to be true.

Of course we can't prove that there isn't a God.22
Therefore, they must believe it, and that makes it a religion.

The atheistic nature of evolution is not only admitted, but insisted upon by most of the leaders of evolutionary thought. Ernst Mayr, for example, says that:

Darwinism rejects all supernatural phenomena and causations.23
A professor in the Department of Biology at Kansas State University says:

Even if all the data point to an intelligent designer, such a hypothesis is excluded from science because it is not naturalistic.24
It is well known by almost everyone in the scientific world today that such influential evolutionists as Stephen Jay Gould and Edward Wilson of Harvard, Richard Dawkins of England, William Provine of Cornell, and numerous other evolutionary spokesmen are dogmatic atheists. Eminent scientific philosopher and ardent Darwinian atheist Michael Ruse has even acknowledged that evolution is their religion!

Evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion -- a full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality . . . . Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today.25

Another way of saying "religion" is "worldview," the whole of reality. The evolutionary worldview applies not only to the evolution of life, but even to that of the entire universe. In the realm of cosmic evolution, our naturalistic scientists depart even further from experimental science than life scientists do, manufacturing a variety of evolutionary cosmologies from esoteric mathematics and metaphysical speculation. Socialist Jeremy Rifkin has commented on this remarkable game.

Cosmologies are made up of small snippets of physical reality that have been remodeled by society into vast cosmic deceptions.26

They must believe in evolution, therefore, in spite of all the evidence, not because of it. And speaking of deceptions, note the following remarkable statement.

We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, . . . in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated commitment to materialism. . . . we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counterintuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.27
The author of this frank statement is Richard Lewontin of Harvard. Since evolution is not a laboratory science, there is no way to test its validity, so all sorts of justso stories are contrived to adorn the textbooks. But that doesn't make them true! An evolutionist reviewing a recent book by another (but more critical) evolutionist, says:

We cannot identify ancestors or "missing links," and we cannot devise testable theories to explain how particular episodes of evolution came about. Gee is adamant that all the popular stories about how the first amphibians conquered the dry land, how the birds developed wings and feathers for flying, how the dinosaurs went extinct, and how humans evolved from apes are just products of our imagination, driven by prejudices and preconceptions.28
A fascinatingly honest admission by a physicist indicates the passionate commitment of establishment scientists to naturalism. Speaking of the trust students naturally place in their highly educated college professors, he says:

And I use that trust to effectively brainwash them. . . . our teaching methods are primarily those of propaganda. We appeal -- without demonstration -- to evidence that supports our position. We only introduce arguments and evidence that supports the currently accepted theories and omit or gloss over any evidence to the contrary.29
Creationist students in scientific courses taught by evolutionist professors can testify to the frustrating reality of that statement. Evolution is, indeed, the pseudoscientific basis of religious atheism, as Ruse pointed out. Will Provine at Cornell University is another scientist who frankly acknowledges this.

As the creationists claim, belief in modern evolution makes atheists of people. One can have a religious view that is compatible with evolution only if the religious view is indistinguishable from atheism.30
Once again, we emphasize that evolution is not science, evolutionists' tirades notwithstanding. It is a philosophical worldview, nothing more.

(Evolution) must, they feel, explain everything. . . . A theory that explains everything might just as well be discarded since it has no real explanatory value. Of course, the other thing about evolution is that anything can be said because very little can be disproved. Experimental evidence is minimal.31

Even that statement is too generous. Actual experimental evidence demonstrating true evolution (that is, macroevolution) is not "minimal." It is nonexistent!

The concept of evolution as a form of religion is not new. In my book, The Long War Against God,32 I documented the fact that some form of evolution has been the pseudo-rationale behind every anti-creationist religion since the very beginning of history. This includes all the ancient ethnic religions, as well as such modern world religions as Buddhism, Hinduism, and others, as well as the "liberal" movements in even the creationist religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam).

As far as the twentieth century is concerned, the leading evolutionist is generally considered to be Sir Julian Huxley, primary architect of modern neo-Darwinism. Huxley called evolution a "religion without revelation" and wrote a book with that title (2nd edition, 1957). In a later book, he said:

Evolution . . . is the most powerful and the most comprehensive idea that has ever arisen on earth.33
Later in the book he argued passionately that we must change "our pattern of religious thought from a God-centered to an evolution-centered pattern."34 Then he went on to say that: "The God hypothesis . . . is becoming an intellectual and moral burden on our thought." Therefore, he concluded that "we must construct something to take its place."35

That something, of course, is the religion of evolutionary humanism, and that is what the leaders of evolutionary humanism are trying to do today.

In closing this survey of the scientific case against evolution (and, therefore, for creation), the reader is reminded again that all quotations in the article are from doctrinaire evolutionists. No Bible references are included, and no statements by creationists. The evolutionists themselves, to all intents and purposes, have shown that evolutionism is not science, but religious faith in atheism.

References

  1. Jeffrey H. Schwartz, Sudden Origins (New York, John Wiley, 1999), p. 300.
  2. Ernst Mayr, "Darwin's Influence on Modern Thought," Scientific American (vol. 283, July 2000), p. 83.
  3. Jeffrey H. Schwartz, op. cit., p.89.
  4. Ibid.
  5. Leslie E. Orgel, "The Origin of Life on the Earth," Scientific American (vol. 271, October 1994), p. 78.
  6. Ibid., p. 83.
  7. Massimo Pigliucci, "Where Do We Come From?" Skeptical Inquirer (vol. 23, September/October 1999), p. 24.
  8. Stephen Jay Gould, "The Evolution of Life," chapter 1 in Evolution: Facts and Fallacies, ed. by J. William Schopf (San Diego, CA., Academic Press, 1999), p. 9.
  9. J. O. Long, The Rise of Fishes (Baltimore: John Hopkins University Press, 1995), p. 30.
  10. Niles Eldredge, The Pattern of Evolution (New York: W. H. Freeman and Co., 1998), p. 157.
  11. Neil Shubin, "Evolutionary Cut and Paste," Nature (vol. 349, July 2, 1998), p.12.
  12. Colin Tudge, "Human Origins Revisited," New Scientist (vol. 146, May 20, 1995), p. 24.
  13. Roger Lewin, "Family Feud," New Scientist (vol. 157, January 24, 1998), p. 39.
  14. N. A. Takahata, "Genetic Perspective on the Origin and History of Humans," Annual Review of Ecology and Systematics (vol. 26, 1995), p. 343.
  15. Lewin, op. cit., p. 36.
  16. Rachel Nowak, "Mining Treasures from `Junk DNA'," Science (vol. 263, February 4, 1994), p. 608.
  17. Ibid.
  18. E. H. Lieb and Jakob Yngvason, "A Fresh Look at Entropy and the Second Law of Thermodynamics," Physics Today (vol. 53, April 2000), p. 32.
  19. Norman A. Johnson, "Design Flaw," American Scientist (vol. 88. May/June 2000), p. 274.
  20. Scott, Eugenie, "Fighting Talk," New Scientist (vol. 166, April 22, 2000), p.47. Dr. Scott is director of the anti-creationist organization euphemistically named, The National Center for Science Education.
  21. Ericson, Edward L., "Reclaiming the Higher Ground," The Humanist (vol. 60, September/October 2000), p. 30.
  22. Dawkins, Richard, replying to a critique of his faith in the liberal journal, Science and Christian Belief (vol. 7, 1994), p. 47.
  23. Mayr, Ernst, "Darwin's Influence on Modern Thought," Scientific American (vol. 283, July 2000), p. 83.
  24. Todd, Scott C., "A View from Kansas on the Evolution Debates," Nature (vol. 401, September 30, 1999), p. 423.
  25. Ruse, Michael, "Saving Darwinism fron the Darwinians," National Post (May 13, 2000), p. B-3.
  26. Rifkin, Jeremy, "Reinventing Nature," The Humanist (vol. 58, March/April 1998), p. 24.
  27. Lewontin, Richard, Review of the Demon-Haunted World, by Carl Sagan. In New York Review of Books, January 9, 1997.
  28. Bowler, Peter J., Review In Search of Deep Time by Henry Gee (Free Press, 1999), American Scientist (vol. 88, March/April 2000), p. 169.
  29. Singham, Mark, "Teaching and Propaganda," Physics Today (vol. 53, June 2000), p. 54.
  30. Provine, Will, "No Free Will," in Catching Up with the Vision, ed. by Margaret W. Rossiter (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1999), p. S123.
  31. Appleyard, Bryan, "You Asked for It," New Scientist (vol. 166, April 22, 2000), p. 45.
  32. Henry M. Morris, The Long War Against God (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1989), 344 pp.
  33. Julian Huxley, Essays of a Humanist (New York: Harper and Row, 1964), p. 125.
  34. Ibid., p. 222.
  35. Ibid.
 
, I reject the assertion that temp rise will only be reduced .02 degrees, as opposed to the full 2 degrees that is asserted by the accord. As nations continue to develop alternative energy sources.

I also reject the assertion that the Paris accord will not create jobs in green energy and help spur innovation and development at a rate higher than the market.

So do I boom. I think all of that can still happen and it's indeed the market that will drive any of it! No one is stopping any of it. Why do we need an "agreement" among 195 sovereign nations to act in their own best interests and do what is both economically feasible for them as well as environmentally responsible?

What's stopping them from doing everything you've mentioned here, including developing cheaper, better, more environmentally responsible energy sources?

We're (US) still going to do all of that...Trump said so. You don't trust him but you do trust the Chinese...India more?
 
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Boom, the Accords won't work. They won't solve the problem you believe exists. Why waste trillions of dollars? Isn't it better to innovate, create and ultimately make green energy cheaper than fossil fuels? The smartest man on this planet takes this same approach. He believes in 50 years or so, we will have solved the green energy dilemma (e.g. cost and effectiveness). Why get such a modest change in temperatures in 80 years. Focus on research and innovation instead.
I don't see it as wasted money at all!
 
I don't see it as wasted money at all!

OMG. Trillions, dramatic impact on U.S. economy and income with no discernible benefit and you don't see it as wasted money? Thank God you are in some field other than business. You would not survive.
 
Macro evolution is not proven: I am sure you can provide examples where scientists say it is, but as you can see not all scientists are in agreement. Thus unproven and still debated.

The Scientific Case Against Evolution
by Henry M. Morris, Ph.D.
Belief in evolution is a remarkable phenomenon. It is a belief passionately defended by the scientific establishment, despite the lack of any observable scientific evidence for macroevolution (that is, evolution from one distinct kind of organism into another). This odd situation is briefly documented here by citing recent statements from leading evolutionists admitting their lack of proof. These statements inadvertently show that evolution on any significant scale does not occur at present, and never happened in the past, and could never happen at all.

Evolution Is Not Happening Now
First of all, the lack of a case for evolution is clear from the fact that no one has ever seen it happen. If it were a real process, evolution should still be occurring, and there should be many "transitional" forms that we could observe. What we see instead, of course, is an array of distinct "kinds" of plants and animals with many varieties within each kind, but with very clear and -- apparently -- unbridgeable gaps between the kinds. That is, for example, there are many varieties of dogs and many varieties of cats, but no "dats" or "cogs." Such variation is often called microevolution, and these minor horizontal (or downward) changes occur fairly often, but such changes are not true "vertical" evolution.

Evolutionary geneticists have often experimented on fruit flies and other rapidly reproducing species to induce mutational changes hoping they would lead to new and better species, but these have all failed to accomplish their goal. No truly new species has ever been produced, let alone a new "basic kind."

A current leading evolutionist, Jeffrey Schwartz, professor of anthropology at the University of Pittsburgh, has recently acknowledged that:

. . . it was and still is the case that, with the exception of Dobzhansky's claim about a new species of fruit fly, the formation of a new species, by any mechanism, has never been observed.1
The scientific method traditionally has required experimental observation and replication. The fact that macroevolution (as distinct from microevolution) has never been observed would seem to exclude it from the domain of true science. Even Ernst Mayr, the dean of living evolutionists, longtime professor of biology at Harvard, who has alleged that evolution is a "simple fact," nevertheless agrees that it is an "historical science" for which "laws and experiments are inappropriate techniques"2 by which to explain it. One can never actually see evolution in action.

Evolution Never Happened in the Past
Evolutionists commonly answer the above criticism by claiming that evolution goes too slowly for us to see it happening today. They used to claim that the real evidence for evolution was in the fossil record of the past, but the fact is that the billions of known fossils do not include a single unequivocal transitional form with transitional structures in the process of evolving.

Given that evolution, according to Darwin, was in a continual state of motion . . . it followed logically that the fossil record should be rife with examples of transitional forms leading from the less to the more evolved.3

Even those who believe in rapid evolution recognize that a considerable number of generations would be required for one distinct "kind" to evolve into another more complex kind. There ought, therefore, to be a considerable number of true transitional structures preserved in the fossils -- after all, there are billions of non-transitional structures there! But (with the exception of a few very doubtful creatures such as the controversial feathered dinosaurs and the alleged walking whales), they are not there.

Instead of filling in the gaps in the fossil record with so-called missing links, most paleontologists found themselves facing a situation in which there were only gaps in the fossil record, with no evidence of transformational intermediates between documented fossil species.4

The entire history of evolution from the evolution of life from non-life to the evolution of vertebrates from invertebrates to the evolution of man from the ape is strikingly devoid of intermediates: the links are all missing in the fossil record, just as they are in the present world.

With respect to the origin of life, a leading researcher in this field, Leslie Orgel, after noting that neither proteins nor nucleic acids could have arisen without the other, concludes:

And so, at first glance, one might have to conclude that life could never, in fact, have originated by chemical means.5
Being committed to total evolution as he is, Dr. Orgel cannot accept any such conclusion as that. Therefore, he speculates that RNA may have come first, but then he still has to admit that:

The precise events giving rise to the RNA world remain unclear. . . . investigators have proposed many hypotheses, but evidence in favor of each of them is fragmentary at best.6
Translation: "There is no known way by which life could have arisen naturalistically." Unfortunately, two generations of students have been taught that Stanley Miller's famous experiment on a gaseous mixture, practically proved the naturalistic origin of life. But not so!

Miller put the whole thing in a ball, gave it an electric charge, and waited. He found that amino acids and other fundamental complex molecules were accumulating at the bottom of the apparatus. His discovery gave a huge boost to the scientific investigation of the origin of life. Indeed, for some time it seemed like creation of life in a test tube was within reach of experimental science. Unfortunately, such experiments have not progressed much further than the original prototype, leaving us with a sour aftertaste from the primordial soup.7

Neither is there any clue as to how the one-celled organisms of the primordial world could have evolved into the vast array of complex multi-celled invertebrates of the Cambrian period. Even dogmatic evolutionist Gould admits that:

The Cambrian explosion was the most remarkable and puzzling event in the history of life.8
Equally puzzling, however, is how some invertebrate creature in the ancient ocean, with all its "hard parts" on the outside, managed to evolve into the first vertebrate -- that is, the first fish-- with its hard parts all on the inside.

Yet the transition from spineless invertebrates to the first backboned fishes is still shrouded in mystery, and many theories abound.9

Other gaps are abundant, with no real transitional series anywhere. A very bitter opponent of creation science, paleontologist, Niles Eldredge, has acknowledged that there is little, if any, evidence of evolutionary transitions in the fossil record. Instead, things remain the same!

It is a simple ineluctable truth that virtually all members of a biota remain basically stable, with minor fluctuations, throughout their durations. . . .10

So how do evolutionists arrive at their evolutionary trees from fossils of oganisms which didn't change during their durations?

Fossil discoveries can muddle over attempts to construct simple evolutionary trees -- fossils from key periods are often not intermediates, but rather hodge podges of defining features of many different groups. . . . Generally, it seems that major groups are not assembled in a simple linear or progressive manner -- new features are often "cut and pasted" on different groups at different times.11

As far as ape/human intermediates are concerned, the same is true, although anthropologists have been eagerly searching for them for many years. Many have been proposed, but each has been rejected in turn.

All that paleoanthropologists have to show for more than 100 years of digging are remains from fewer than 2000 of our ancestors. They have used this assortment of jawbones, teeth and fossilized scraps, together with molecular evidence from living species, to piece together a line of human descent going back 5 to 8 million years to the time when humans and chimpanzees diverged from a common ancestor.12

Anthropologists supplemented their extremely fragmentary fossil evidence with DNA and other types of molecular genetic evidence from living animals to try to work out an evolutionary scenario that will fit. But this genetic evidence really doesn't help much either, for it contradicts fossil evidence. Lewin notes that:

The overall effect is that molecular phylogenetics is by no means as straightforward as its pioneers believed. . . . The Byzantine dynamics of genome change has many other consequences for molecular phylogenetics, including the fact that different genes tell different stories.13
Summarizing the genetic data from humans, another author concludes, rather pessimistically:

Even with DNA sequence data, we have no direct access to the processes of evolution, so objective reconstruction of the vanished past can be achieved only by creative imagination.14
Since there is no real scientific evidence that evolution is occurring at present or ever occurred in the past, it is reasonable to conclude that evolution is not a fact of science, as many claim. In fact, it is not even science at all, but an arbitrary system built upon faith in universal naturalism.

Actually, these negative evidences against evolution are, at the same time, strong positive evidences for special creation. They are, in fact, specific predictions based on the creation model of origins.

Creationists would obviously predict ubiquitous gaps between created kinds, though with many varieties capable of arising within each kind, in order to enable each basic kind to cope with changing environments without becoming extinct. Creationists also would anticipate that any "vertical changes" in organized complexity would be downward, since the Creator (by definition) would create things correctly to begin with. Thus, arguments and evidences against evolution are, at the same time, positive evidences for creation.

The Equivocal Evidence from Genetics
Nevertheless, because of the lack of any direct evidence for evolution, evolutionists are increasingly turning to dubious circumstantial evidences, such as similarities in DNA or other biochemical components of organisms as their "proof" that evolution is a scientific fact. A number of evolutionists have even argued that DNA itself is evidence for evolution since it is common to all organisms. More often is the argument used that similar DNA structures in two different organisms proves common evolutionary ancestry.

Neither argument is valid. There is no reason whatever why the Creator could not or would not use the same type of genetic code based on DNA for all His created life forms. This is evidence for intelligent design and creation, not evolution.

The most frequently cited example of DNA commonality is the human/chimpanzee "similarity," noting that chimpanzees have more than 90% of their DNA the same as humans. This is hardly surprising, however, considering the many physiological resemblances between people and chimpanzees. Why shouldn't they have similar DNA structures in comparison, say, to the DNA differences between men and spiders?

Similarities -- whether of DNA, anatomy, embryonic development, or anything else -- are better explained in terms of creation by a common Designer than by evolutionary relationship. The great differences between organisms are of greater significance than the similarities, and evolutionism has no explanation for these if they all are assumed to have had the same ancestor. How could these great gaps between kinds ever arise at all, by any natural process?

The apparently small differences between human and chimpanzee DNA obviously produce very great differences in their respective anatomies, intelligence, etc. The superficial similarities between all apes and human beings are nothing compared to the differences in any practical or observable sense.

Nevertheless, evolutionists, having largely become disenchanted with the fossil record as a witness for evolution because of the ubiquitous gaps where there should be transitions, recently have been promoting DNA and other genetic evidence as proof of evolution. However, as noted above by Roger Lewin, this is often inconsistent with, not only the fossil record, but also with the comparative morphology of the creatures. Lewin also mentions just a few typical contradictions yielded by this type of evidence in relation to more traditional Darwinian "proofs."

The elephant shrew, consigned by traditional analysis to the order insectivores . . . is in fact more closely related to . . . the true elephant. Cows are more closely related to dolphins than they are to horses. The duckbilled platypus . . . is on equal evolutionary footing with . . . kangaroos and koalas.15

There are many even more bizarre comparisons yielded by this approach.

The abundance of so-called "junk DNA" in the genetic code also has been offered as a special type of evidence for evolution, especially those genes which they think have experienced mutations, sometimes called "pseudogenes."16 However, evidence is accumulating rapidly today that these supposedly useless genes do actually perform useful functions.

Enough genes have already been uncovered in the genetic midden to show that what was once thought to be waste is definitely being transmitted into scientific code.17

It is thus wrong to decide that junk DNA, even the socalled "pseudogenes," have no function. That is merely an admission of ignorance and an object for fruitful research. Like the socalled "vestigial organs" in man, once considered as evidence of evolution but now all known to have specific uses, so the junk DNA and pseudogenes most probably are specifically useful to the organism, whether or not those uses have yet been discovered by scientists.

At the very best this type of evidence is strictly circumstantial and can be explained just as well in terms of primeval creation supplemented in some cases by later deterioration, just as expected in the creation model.

The real issue is, as noted before, whether there is any observable evidence that evolution is occurring now or has ever occurred in the past. As we have seen, even evolutionists have to acknowledge that this type of real scientific evidence for evolution does not exist.

A good question to ask is: Why are all observable evolutionary changes either horizontal and trivial (so-called microevolution) or downward toward deterioration and extinction? The answer seems to be found in the universally applicable laws of the science of thermodynamics.

Evolution Could Never Happen at All
The main scientific reason why there is no evidence for evolution in either the present or the past (except in the creative imagination of evolutionary scientists) is because one of the most fundamental laws of nature precludes it. The law of increasing entropy -- also known as the second law of thermodynamics -- stipulates that all systems in the real world tend to go "downhill," as it were, toward disorganization and decreased complexity.

This law of entropy is, by any measure, one of the most universal, bestproved laws of nature. It applies not only in physical and chemical systems, but also in biological and geological systems -- in fact, in all systems, without exception.

No exception to the second law of thermodynamics has ever been found -- not even a tiny one. Like conservation of energy (the "first law"), the existence of a law so precise and so independent of details of models must have a logical foundation that is independent of the fact that matter is composed of interacting particles.18
The author of this quote is referring primarily to physics, but he does point out that the second law is "independent of details of models." Besides, practically all evolutionary biologists are reductionists -- that is, they insist that there are no "vitalist" forces in living systems, and that all biological processes are explicable in terms of physics and chemistry. That being the case, biological processes also must operate in accordance with the laws of thermodynamics, and practically all biologists acknowledge this.

Evolutionists commonly insist, however, that evolution is a fact anyhow, and that the conflict is resolved by noting that the earth is an "open system," with the incoming energy from the sun able to sustain evolution throughout the geological ages in spite of the natural tendency of all systems to deteriorate toward disorganization. That is how an evolutionary entomologist has dismissed W. A. Dembski's impressive recent book, Intelligent Design. This scientist defends what he thinks is "natural processes' ability to increase complexity" by noting what he calls a "flaw" in "the arguments against evolution based on the second law of thermodynamics." And what is this flaw?

Although the overall amount of disorder in a closed system cannot decrease, local order within a larger system can increase even without the actions of an intelligent agent.19
This naive response to the entropy law is typical of evolutionary dissimulation. While it is true that local order can increase in an open system if certain conditions are met, the fact is that evolution does not meet those conditions. Simply saying that the earth is open to the energy from the sun says nothing about how that raw solar heat is converted into increased complexity in any system, open or closed.

The fact is that the best known and most fundamental equation of thermodynamics says that the influx of heat into an open system will increase the entropy of that system, not decrease it. All known cases of decreased entropy (or increased organization) in open systems involve a guiding program of some sort and one or more energy conversion mechanisms.

Evolution has neither of these. Mutations are not "organizing" mechanisms, but disorganizing (in accord with the second law). They are commonly harmful, sometimes neutral, but never beneficial (at least as far as observed mutations are concerned). Natural selection cannot generate order, but can only "sieve out" the disorganizing mutations presented to it, thereby conserving the existing order, but never generating new order. In principle, it may be barely conceivable that evolution could occur in open systems, in spite of the tendency of all systems to disintegrate sooner or later. But no one yet has been able to show that it actually has the ability to overcome this universal tendency, and that is the basic reason why there is still no bona fide proof of evolution, past or present.

From the statements of evolutionists themselves, therefore, we have learned that there is no real scientific evidence for real evolution. The only observable evidence is that of very limited horizontal (or downward) changes within strict limits.

Evolution is Religion -- Not Science
In no way does the idea of particles-to-people evolution meet the long-accepted criteria of a scientific theory. There are no such evolutionary transitions that have ever been observed in the fossil record of the past; and the universal law of entropy seems to make it impossible on any significant scale.

Evolutionists claim that evolution is a scientific fact, but they almost always lose scientific debates with creationist scientists. Accordingly, most evolutionists now decline opportunities for scientific debates, preferring instead to make unilateral attacks on creationists.

Scientists should refuse formal debates because they do more harm than good, but scientists still need to counter the creationist message.20
The question is, just why do they need to counter the creationist message? Why are they so adamantly committed to anti-creationism?

The fact is that evolutionists believe in evolution because they want to. It is their desire at all costs to explain the origin of everything without a Creator. Evolutionism is thus intrinsically an atheistic religion. Some may prefer to call it humanism, and "new age" evolutionists place it in the context of some form of pantheism, but they all amount to the same thing. Whether atheism or humanism (or even pantheism), the purpose is to eliminate a personal God from any active role in the origin of the universe and all its components, including man.

The core of the humanistic philosophy is naturalism -- the proposition that the natural world proceeds according to its own internal dynamics, without divine or supernatural control or guidance, and that we human beings are creations of that process. It is instructive to recall that the philosophers of the early humanistic movement debated as to which term more adequately described their position: humanism or naturalism. The two concepts are complementary and inseparable.21

Since both naturalism and humanism exclude God from science or any other active function in the creation or maintenance of life and the universe in general, it is very obvious that their position is nothing but atheism. And atheism, no less than theism, is a religion! Even doctrinaire-atheistic evolutionist Richard Dawkins admits that atheism cannot be proved to be true.

Of course we can't prove that there isn't a God.22
Therefore, they must believe it, and that makes it a religion.

The atheistic nature of evolution is not only admitted, but insisted upon by most of the leaders of evolutionary thought. Ernst Mayr, for example, says that:

Darwinism rejects all supernatural phenomena and causations.23
A professor in the Department of Biology at Kansas State University says:

Even if all the data point to an intelligent designer, such a hypothesis is excluded from science because it is not naturalistic.24
It is well known by almost everyone in the scientific world today that such influential evolutionists as Stephen Jay Gould and Edward Wilson of Harvard, Richard Dawkins of England, William Provine of Cornell, and numerous other evolutionary spokesmen are dogmatic atheists. Eminent scientific philosopher and ardent Darwinian atheist Michael Ruse has even acknowledged that evolution is their religion!

Evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion -- a full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality . . . . Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today.25

Another way of saying "religion" is "worldview," the whole of reality. The evolutionary worldview applies not only to the evolution of life, but even to that of the entire universe. In the realm of cosmic evolution, our naturalistic scientists depart even further from experimental science than life scientists do, manufacturing a variety of evolutionary cosmologies from esoteric mathematics and metaphysical speculation. Socialist Jeremy Rifkin has commented on this remarkable game.

Cosmologies are made up of small snippets of physical reality that have been remodeled by society into vast cosmic deceptions.26

They must believe in evolution, therefore, in spite of all the evidence, not because of it. And speaking of deceptions, note the following remarkable statement.

We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, . . . in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated commitment to materialism. . . . we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counterintuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.27
The author of this frank statement is Richard Lewontin of Harvard. Since evolution is not a laboratory science, there is no way to test its validity, so all sorts of justso stories are contrived to adorn the textbooks. But that doesn't make them true! An evolutionist reviewing a recent book by another (but more critical) evolutionist, says:

We cannot identify ancestors or "missing links," and we cannot devise testable theories to explain how particular episodes of evolution came about. Gee is adamant that all the popular stories about how the first amphibians conquered the dry land, how the birds developed wings and feathers for flying, how the dinosaurs went extinct, and how humans evolved from apes are just products of our imagination, driven by prejudices and preconceptions.28
A fascinatingly honest admission by a physicist indicates the passionate commitment of establishment scientists to naturalism. Speaking of the trust students naturally place in their highly educated college professors, he says:

And I use that trust to effectively brainwash them. . . . our teaching methods are primarily those of propaganda. We appeal -- without demonstration -- to evidence that supports our position. We only introduce arguments and evidence that supports the currently accepted theories and omit or gloss over any evidence to the contrary.29
Creationist students in scientific courses taught by evolutionist professors can testify to the frustrating reality of that statement. Evolution is, indeed, the pseudoscientific basis of religious atheism, as Ruse pointed out. Will Provine at Cornell University is another scientist who frankly acknowledges this.

As the creationists claim, belief in modern evolution makes atheists of people. One can have a religious view that is compatible with evolution only if the religious view is indistinguishable from atheism.30
Once again, we emphasize that evolution is not science, evolutionists' tirades notwithstanding. It is a philosophical worldview, nothing more.

(Evolution) must, they feel, explain everything. . . . A theory that explains everything might just as well be discarded since it has no real explanatory value. Of course, the other thing about evolution is that anything can be said because very little can be disproved. Experimental evidence is minimal.31

Even that statement is too generous. Actual experimental evidence demonstrating true evolution (that is, macroevolution) is not "minimal." It is nonexistent!

The concept of evolution as a form of religion is not new. In my book, The Long War Against God,32 I documented the fact that some form of evolution has been the pseudo-rationale behind every anti-creationist religion since the very beginning of history. This includes all the ancient ethnic religions, as well as such modern world religions as Buddhism, Hinduism, and others, as well as the "liberal" movements in even the creationist religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam).

As far as the twentieth century is concerned, the leading evolutionist is generally considered to be Sir Julian Huxley, primary architect of modern neo-Darwinism. Huxley called evolution a "religion without revelation" and wrote a book with that title (2nd edition, 1957). In a later book, he said:

Evolution . . . is the most powerful and the most comprehensive idea that has ever arisen on earth.33
Later in the book he argued passionately that we must change "our pattern of religious thought from a God-centered to an evolution-centered pattern."34 Then he went on to say that: "The God hypothesis . . . is becoming an intellectual and moral burden on our thought." Therefore, he concluded that "we must construct something to take its place."35

That something, of course, is the religion of evolutionary humanism, and that is what the leaders of evolutionary humanism are trying to do today.

In closing this survey of the scientific case against evolution (and, therefore, for creation), the reader is reminded again that all quotations in the article are from doctrinaire evolutionists. No Bible references are included, and no statements by creationists. The evolutionists themselves, to all intents and purposes, have shown that evolutionism is not science, but religious faith in atheism.

References

  1. Jeffrey H. Schwartz, Sudden Origins (New York, John Wiley, 1999), p. 300.
  2. Ernst Mayr, "Darwin's Influence on Modern Thought," Scientific American (vol. 283, July 2000), p. 83.
  3. Jeffrey H. Schwartz, op. cit., p.89.
  4. Ibid.
  5. Leslie E. Orgel, "The Origin of Life on the Earth," Scientific American (vol. 271, October 1994), p. 78.
  6. Ibid., p. 83.
  7. Massimo Pigliucci, "Where Do We Come From?" Skeptical Inquirer (vol. 23, September/October 1999), p. 24.
  8. Stephen Jay Gould, "The Evolution of Life," chapter 1 in Evolution: Facts and Fallacies, ed. by J. William Schopf (San Diego, CA., Academic Press, 1999), p. 9.
  9. J. O. Long, The Rise of Fishes (Baltimore: John Hopkins University Press, 1995), p. 30.
  10. Niles Eldredge, The Pattern of Evolution (New York: W. H. Freeman and Co., 1998), p. 157.
  11. Neil Shubin, "Evolutionary Cut and Paste," Nature (vol. 349, July 2, 1998), p.12.
  12. Colin Tudge, "Human Origins Revisited," New Scientist (vol. 146, May 20, 1995), p. 24.
  13. Roger Lewin, "Family Feud," New Scientist (vol. 157, January 24, 1998), p. 39.
  14. N. A. Takahata, "Genetic Perspective on the Origin and History of Humans," Annual Review of Ecology and Systematics (vol. 26, 1995), p. 343.
  15. Lewin, op. cit., p. 36.
  16. Rachel Nowak, "Mining Treasures from `Junk DNA'," Science (vol. 263, February 4, 1994), p. 608.
  17. Ibid.
  18. E. H. Lieb and Jakob Yngvason, "A Fresh Look at Entropy and the Second Law of Thermodynamics," Physics Today (vol. 53, April 2000), p. 32.
  19. Norman A. Johnson, "Design Flaw," American Scientist (vol. 88. May/June 2000), p. 274.
  20. Scott, Eugenie, "Fighting Talk," New Scientist (vol. 166, April 22, 2000), p.47. Dr. Scott is director of the anti-creationist organization euphemistically named, The National Center for Science Education.
  21. Ericson, Edward L., "Reclaiming the Higher Ground," The Humanist (vol. 60, September/October 2000), p. 30.
  22. Dawkins, Richard, replying to a critique of his faith in the liberal journal, Science and Christian Belief (vol. 7, 1994), p. 47.
  23. Mayr, Ernst, "Darwin's Influence on Modern Thought," Scientific American (vol. 283, July 2000), p. 83.
  24. Todd, Scott C., "A View from Kansas on the Evolution Debates," Nature (vol. 401, September 30, 1999), p. 423.
  25. Ruse, Michael, "Saving Darwinism fron the Darwinians," National Post (May 13, 2000), p. B-3.
  26. Rifkin, Jeremy, "Reinventing Nature," The Humanist (vol. 58, March/April 1998), p. 24.
  27. Lewontin, Richard, Review of the Demon-Haunted World, by Carl Sagan. In New York Review of Books, January 9, 1997.
  28. Bowler, Peter J., Review In Search of Deep Time by Henry Gee (Free Press, 1999), American Scientist (vol. 88, March/April 2000), p. 169.
  29. Singham, Mark, "Teaching and Propaganda," Physics Today (vol. 53, June 2000), p. 54.
  30. Provine, Will, "No Free Will," in Catching Up with the Vision, ed. by Margaret W. Rossiter (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1999), p. S123.
  31. Appleyard, Bryan, "You Asked for It," New Scientist (vol. 166, April 22, 2000), p. 45.
  32. Henry M. Morris, The Long War Against God (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1989), 344 pp.
  33. Julian Huxley, Essays of a Humanist (New York: Harper and Row, 1964), p. 125.
  34. Ibid., p. 222.
  35. Ibid.



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Okay then, we can't conclude that Earth is round either because some people dispute it.

https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/

It is the mainstream scientific view that macro evolution has occurred and it taught in every university in the country with the possible exceptions of ones devoted to advancing religious fundamentalist views.

The problem is that anytime you don't want something to be true you simply insist it's not true no matter how much science there is to the contrary.

Here is the guy you're using as your authority. He is long dead and his PhD is in hydraulic engineering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_M._Morris
 
Modern science believes and acknowledges macro evolution is proven and I think it has actually been observed directly although it was proven long before that.

You're right that if a Creator exists It could have used any method It wanted to create life. That gets into the realm of the supernatural. You can discuss and debate and a supernatural did or didn't do. It's interesting to do but it's not science.

But you need to keep proven science in mind if you want to have a useful discussion. So before evolution is proven you can say "God did it so-and-so way" but after evolution is proven you can no longer pick and choose how God did it. You have to instead say "God was behind evolution." Of course, that is all from the POV of a philosophical discussion though. You still can't prove it scientifically (that God was behind it I mean).

This would be fine except the proponents of evolution try to use it to prove there is no God.

Now why can't believers in Creation point to it to prove things that "evolved" were indeed created (otherwise how else did they get here?) which speaks to origin which Evolution cannot answer.

Why do those who argue for evolution get to use it as proof there is no creation and therefore no creator?
 
Like I have posted with others, you can provide research and articles in favor and I can post them opposed, all from scientists.

Theory. Not proven.

I'm not sure why you fight this one so. It is mandatory for the ark to have ever have functioned as stated.
 
Like I have posted with others, you can provide research and articles in favor and I can post them opposed, all from scientists.

Theory. Not proven.

And now we shift to the usage of the word "theory." Relativity theory is "theory" but it's proven. Heliocentric theory (the theory that the planets go around the Sun) is "theory" but it's proven. Quantum theory is "theory" but it's proven. I could go on but there's no point because you won't hear it anyway.
 
I said that evolution (macro evolution) meaning evolution from one species to another is not proven and is a theory. Micro evolution, the adaptation of a species is proven.

I am agnostic on evolution. Atheists believe evolution disproves a creator, that is wrong. A creator would have used any method to create life, including evolution. I am simply stating a fact. Macro evolution has not been proven.
IMO, there is no micro or macro evolution, it's not economics. Evolution is proven. Period.
 
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