Pac-12 exploring expansion options as Big Ten informs Oregon, Washington it's standing pat for now
The Pac-12 will have to figure out how to stay afloat in a new landscape without USC and UCLA
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2 hours ago
- Thread starter WVUALLEN
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Until Notre Shame makes a decision.Pac-12 exploring expansion options as Big Ten informs Oregon, Washington it's standing pat for now
The Pac-12 will have to figure out how to stay afloat in a new landscape without USC and UCLA
Big Ten informs Oregon, Washington it's standing pat for now
Curious if the BIg12 will try to pursue any programs from PAC12..... Perhaps Utah, both Arizonas, Colorado...
If Big12 is super aggressive here, they could add those along with Oregon & Washington to become the first 20 team conference.
I doubt that happens, or perhaps a Big12 and Pac 12 merger.... At this point, anything is possible.
If Big12 is super aggressive here, they could add those along with Oregon & Washington to become the first 20 team conference.
I doubt that happens, or perhaps a Big12 and Pac 12 merger.... At this point, anything is possible.
Correct.
Correct. As I said a few times already, look for Oregon and Washington to join the B1G within a couple months. B1G has already provided ND an ultimatum, ND has countered, wanting to maintain TV rights (lots of money). B1G isn't going for that, nor will the SEC. Once that plays out, and it may be a long time, then you'll know the fate of the ACC. If ND fails to the B1G or SEC, then the ACC is in trouble, and the big programs will then begin to move to either the B1G or SEC. If ND stays put, then the B1G will absorb Oregon and Washington. Hard to tell how long that will play out.
Wow...this conference stuff really has taken your mind off of making fun of those with mental illness and suicidal thoughts.
"Are you going to cry over suicide again? The King was laughing hard at you that day, and then we both laughed harder at you later that day, watching you make additional posts about it on Facebook." -- michiganherd.
Until the playoffs block ND from participating they will be independent forever.
Look at the troll. Unable to talk sports, so all it can do, is attempt to hijack and ruin another thread. Best to simply engage the ignore functionality and stop feeding the troll.
It is certain that TV money will try to distill FBS down to 1/3 or even 1/4 of the current 130 teams to relevance and let the rest just be FBS lite. How fast that happens is uncertain. It is almost certain that WVU will not be invited to that 32-45 team cabal.
I talk sports on the Blue Lot...the place you can't afford.
You dont like everyone knowing you goof and crack jokes on the mentally distraught?
Love the like from Allen, who derails every thread to play footsie with tootie....comical.
"Are you going to cry over suicide again? The King was laughing hard at you that day, and then we both laughed harder at you later that day, watching you make additional posts about it on Facebook." -- michiganherd.
There would have to be 30 teams each conference in the P2 for WVU to even be thought about.
The invites for this round is more about branding than anything else.
Once Big 10 nabs Oregon, ND. SEC will go FSU, Clemson, GT and UVA. Big will then add UNC and Kansas. Both will be at 20 and then separate from NCAA and pay players a salary and not worry about NIL. Players would do their own NIL deals through their agents.
Welcome to the NFL G League.
The rest will be just a training facility for the big boys.
Once ND, Oregon, Wash, NC, Clemson, Fl St poached... the teams in the 2 leagues alone will be all the networks need.
But it does make me wonder... could Vandy be evicted? Illinois? Seems weird to have the creme de la creme... plus 3 or 4 of the worst Div-1 football programs... unless they keep those schools for the automatic wins for the big boys... and TVs (northwestern=Chicago... Rutgers=NY Metro... Vandy=Nashville).
I cannot think of a more negative advertisement for the Blue Lot than this.
I thought about that myself. I figure the legal hassle will keep them in place as even the NFL has the Browns and the Jets as perennial doormats. So chumps like Indiana, Illinois, Rutgers, and Vandy will keep their place.
B1G will make the next move then forcing SEC to move. ESPN will be the money behind this.
First B1G forces ND to make up their mind. ND is sticking to their demand to kaap their media money. B1G and SEC will have nothing to do with that. BIGwould take ND and Stanford as a package then that opens the ACC for UVA and UNC to the B1G.
ThenSEC picks off Clemson, FSU, MIAMI and NCST?
If ND stays indy then Ore, Wash to B1G and a court battle with B1G, SEC and ESPN joining forces to break GOR in the ACC.
In all cases the B12 is secure. None of the teams are lucrative enough to make the SES B1G pot bigger. B12 needs to poach AZ & AZSt along with the next 2 best P12 and 2 Eastern teams to get to 18.
First B1G forces ND to make up their mind. ND is sticking to their demand to kaap their media money. B1G and SEC will have nothing to do with that. BIGwould take ND and Stanford as a package then that opens the ACC for UVA and UNC to the B1G.
ThenSEC picks off Clemson, FSU, MIAMI and NCST?
If ND stays indy then Ore, Wash to B1G and a court battle with B1G, SEC and ESPN joining forces to break GOR in the ACC.
In all cases the B12 is secure. None of the teams are lucrative enough to make the SES B1G pot bigger. B12 needs to poach AZ & AZSt along with the next 2 best P12 and 2 Eastern teams to get to 18.
Big12 gets Az, Az St, Colo, Utah...
from east, could Big12 poach ACC that lost UVA, UNC, Miami, F St, Clemson?
If so, Va Tech & Pitt.
What if certain members of the Big 12 and PAC 12 decide to dissolve the conference and form their own. Dodd mentions this in the 2nd article in this link. Scroll down to mutual destruction.
Incoming commish Brett Yormark faces realignment, stability concerns as welcome gifts from Big 12
Realignment is not waiting for Yormark, whose Big 12 tenure begins Aug. 1
www.cbssports.com
Its somewhat funny to see Houston, Cinci, TTU, and a few others on that list that are obviously not on WVU's level when it comes to overall brand value. They wrote that purely from a geographical perspective and not really from a overall brand value perspective, which is likely the most critical factor used in choosing programs.What if certain members of the Big 12 and PAC 12 decide to dissolve the conference and form their own. Dodd mentions this in the 2nd article in this link. Scroll down to mutual destruction.
Incoming commish Brett Yormark faces realignment, stability concerns as welcome gifts from Big 12
Realignment is not waiting for Yormark, whose Big 12 tenure begins Aug. 1
Geography is yesteryears perspective.
On the surface, people look at WVU like its a smallfry, mainly due to the population size of the state. In some ways we are, but we maintain a very high fan participation rate, which shows up when you break down what factors are used to formulate overall Brand Value & Revenue potential.
Taking all factors in place WVU ranks in the top 30 in the country, which most wouldnt(not even myself) would have guessed.
Logo & Merchandise
Fan attendance
TV ratings
Streaming packages
etc
While our recruiting base is certainly a weakness as programs dont look at WV as a hub for recruiting, it has improved a little recently, but its still a downside.
Even if some of these are given a different weighting in a conferences top secret evaluation ranking process, WVU would still be in the top 25-40, accounting for how a different weighting could slightly shift the rankings.
Considering how scale & participation can now be monetized in the modern economy, WVU will have a place at the table somewhere... From a culture perspective we fit the SEC, well.... the state does anyways, the University has continued to push left separating itself from the views of the majority of the state, so its a bit of an oddity. We fit from a geographical and rival perspective in the ACC. However, if FSU, Clemson, & Miami bolt, we could just be stepping into another crumbling situation there, which I believe is highly likely at this point.
If the top 32 programs from Pac12, Big12, & ACC formed a super conference. Spanning from coast to coast, North to South.. To maximize its reach for marketing, and in every market...
Two Divisions of 16, each broken down into pods of 4. Notably allowing for higher % of Rivalries, which increases participation, views, ratings, etc... By sticking the top 4 rivals in each pod(as much as possible)...
EX:
East Division Pod1
WVU, VATech, Syracuse, Pitt
East Division Pod2
Louisville, UNC, Duke, UVA
East Division pod3
Okie St, TCU, Baylor, Kansas
East Division pod4
UCF, Houston, Cinci, GaTech
____
West Division Pod1
Oregon, Washington, Utah, BYU
West Division Pod2
Arizona, AState, Colorado, Texas Tech
West Division Pod3
Cal, Stanford, Wash St, ?
West Division pod4
IowaSt, KState, ?, ?
You would play every program in your pod every year, then play 1 team from every other pod, giving 10 P5/Conference opponents, allowing for 1 "tune-up" game with your typical WVU vs WKU. That creates more quality opponents, instead of only playing 9 P5s, and because you have good rivalries there is no need to play any teams from SEC or BigTen(Until you see them in the National Collegiate Championship). This would nurture higher participation and more conference games = more revenues..
You could end up with the BigTen and SEC agreeing to their own playoff system, and Championship, likewise with the new Super Conference, each would have their Champion and you could have a National Championship game between both super conferences...
I would hope, at least for the Big12's sake, the new commissioner isnt going to wait around and leave its future in the hands of Notre Dame. They need to be absolute killers right now and full blown attack mode to add as many Pac12 programs as it can.. You can figure out monetization later down the line. If they are truly being lead by a quality businessman, they will source new revenue streams that can tap into the value of their networks data & diverse participation. Data is king, and it can now be significantly monetized, even borrowed against and rated as an asset class, so if BIg12 stays together and hopefully aggressively expands to 20, they should absolutely pursue new revenue sources to make up the difference.
EX: Big12 could have its own recruiting website & shows, people can subscribe for free(Data Collection), or pay a small fee for "insiders info", or offer different program specific packages they offer as a subscription fee. It could be their own recruiting & news network... They need to find ways to maintain participation even in the offseason, and thats a way for people to engage. They could also offer game replays & highlights on their networks youtube channel people can subscribe to.... Monetize that as well...
Conferences are still stuck relying on TV deals when there are other secondary options to boost revenues another 25%-100% or so..
This guy uses 5 ranking metrics:
1. Home Attendance
2. market size/share
3. Valuation
4. Social media following
5. Average TV viewership
Problem for WVU is that it's current value doesn't leave much room to grow. It is not like elevating WVU to one of the big 2 conferences means significant growth as the number of people in WV is small and its unlikely that WVU picks up a large number of alum fans spread across the country that were not already interested in WVU football. And it is an absolute ruthless, cut throat world out there. So from the B1G and SEC prospective, killing or at least damaging WVU's value may be a more appealing play to them versus adding WVU's value which is lower than what the Big 2 conference members already take as their individual shares.
Thats true... To already have such a high participation % means WVU is already likely close to its peak national fan participation... Good Point Bell...
The one counter to that argument is while we may not have much growth to be seen from being accepted into another conference, our fanbase is spread out over multiple states, with strong bases on Maryland, VA, NC, FL, NJ, & PA. When all my friends went to WVU and I would visit them for the weekend many years ago, the majority of people I met there was from out of state, as WVU has a healthy number of out of state students every year, mainly PA, NY, NJ, Maryland... Also most graduates dont stay in the state of WV after graduation to find quality employment, but Im not sure if media participation of WVU games can be broken down per state. Im not sure if they can obtain that data from media providers or not. Though, it would be interesting to see a breakdown of WVU game views per state basis.
Still your point remains, our max ceiling is lower, I suppose at least it shows the strength of the program within its fanbase. Well, until people become detached from the rate of change anyways...
Just wish it was a bit wealthier, lol..
If a new conference did form I doubt Cincinnati would be included but I wouldn't discount geography being a factor. The Big 10 discarded geography when they chose USC/UCLA but the brand of the Big 10 is on a different level than that of the big 12. If something new formed I don't see it going east of Houston.
I hear that geography no longer matters. But isn't that true only if your conference has a huge tv/media contract? If Big12 survives adding AZ and Utah... but our new contract is 15 mil annually... can we afford the Big12?
That is why I see us taking an ACC spot after SEC & B1G raids on that conference. We could afford 15 mil contract traveling to Pitt, Va Tech, Syracuse, Louisville, and Winston-Salem.
That is why I see us taking an ACC spot after SEC & B1G raids on that conference. We could afford 15 mil contract traveling to Pitt, Va Tech, Syracuse, Louisville, and Winston-Salem.
I think Geography would matter to a conference not named Sec or Big 10. If you don't have star power it limits the amount you can get in Tv dollars. I know hindsight is 20/20 but one of the mistakes the big 12 has made at this point was making a hasty decision to add 4, G5 schools after Texas and Oklahoma left. The current GOR in the Big 12 doesn't expire until 2025 so they had plenty of time to sit back and see what might transpire. Adding potentially 4 power 5 schools to get to 12 would have been better for potential revenue than adding 4, G5 schools. If we add new schools from the pac it means more teams to split the pot. I doubt any of the teams being mentioned are drastically going to increase that pot.
