I was unaware I was talking to a true American hero I apologize for any disrespect I showed hats off to you
WV teacher strke
- Thread starter tjebarr
- Start date
Yeah but after that 30 years, 6% of their salary gets them 60% of their salary for the rest of their lives. There is a big benefit of having that pension. If a teacher averaged 50k over 30 years they would have contributed 90k into retirement plan and would get 30k for the rest of their life. That is an incredible return unless they die early. but there are joint payouts. That is a benefit of working for the government. The rest of us will have fun trying to create our own guaranteed stream of income.
They are at the mercy of the state legislature that their retirement continues to be funded, or isn't raided. Sounds good but I don't think it is risk free.
Yep my mother makes more money being retired and substituting than she did working full time and she retired at 69k per year.
As the husband of a teacher, I have seen and heard it all. Way too much, but that's another story.
First of all, the statistic of the teacher-student ratio is very misleading. For the last few years, the class sizes have been increasing, and the only new teacher/aides which have been added are basically special ed. Most of the time, her classes have anywhere from 23-25 students. These classes are filled with every imaginable type of student - from the highest achieving to the ones who just don't give a d***. Those who don't care are usually the ones who come from some of the most desperate situations at home imaginable.
So, in my wife's school, you have about 1/3 of the students who are extremely difficult to handle and educate - primarily due to the "parents" who created them. Many are being raised by grandparents, because the parents refuse to provide a decent environment or aren't permitted by law to have them in their custody. Lots of emotional problems, as well as learning problems. In the past when there was an unruly student, there were ways to actually try to do something about it. Not now....the teachers' hands are tied. So, day after day, the classroom becomes a place where a large percentage of the time is spent on managing behavior, thus hampering the education of the students who do try and actually care. Now I realize this is not true in every school, but times are changing, people, and it's not a pleasant thing to deal with. This is not just true in our state, but in many areas. It is particularly true in elementary schools, where expulsion or reassignment to alternative situations is simply not done, unless a weapon is involved.
As I said, it wasn't always this way....not when I went to school, and not when she first began teaching. All of society's problems and ills are right there every day for seven hours, five days a week. And except for doing the very best they can, the teachers have become frustrated and see very little light at the end of the tunnel. So, to insult them, and refuse to at least pay them for dealing with problems which they didn't create is throwing salt in the wound. The local control has been taken away from their counties, and even the state has lost a lot of control because of manipulation from the feds.
Merit pay is an interesting concept. Basing it on test results is laughable. Frankly, you can't get blood out of a turnip. Perhaps if it was based on a socio-economic scale of what kind of students they were teaching, it might be more accurate. Private schools and charter schools do not deal with this. The "problem" and non-conforming students are not accepted or simply removed from the schools.
My wife has taught with a few teachers who should not be in the classroom, that is a definite. Also a definite in any profession. Most of those get filtered out along the way, but there are some who hang on to the bitter end, just collecting a pay check. That is frustrating to the teachers who do what we all expect. But, the vast majority are not like that at all. When my oldest daughter considered being a teacher, we both told her that was not advisable for her fiscal or mental health. She wisely took our advice. I do know that there aren't too many jobs out there with the stress involved with teaching. And if it is a high pressure job, they are amply rewarded for it.
As most parents who volunteer and spend time in a school will tell you, they wouldn't do a teacher's job for any amount of money.
And, by the way, the three months off thing.....not accurate at all. In my county, the students start school near the beginning of August. My own children, who are all professionals, have vacations ranging from four to six weeks, and that is at this point in their lives. It will increase as they grow older. And all of them make salaries which range from $80,000 to over $200,000 a year. None are over 38 years of age, so their salaries will only increase. Not so with my wife, she is at the mercy of a petulant legislature and some tax-payers who feel she is making quite enough. If the tax payers want the public education system to survive, they need to wake up to what is really going on.
First of all, the statistic of the teacher-student ratio is very misleading. For the last few years, the class sizes have been increasing, and the only new teacher/aides which have been added are basically special ed. Most of the time, her classes have anywhere from 23-25 students. These classes are filled with every imaginable type of student - from the highest achieving to the ones who just don't give a d***. Those who don't care are usually the ones who come from some of the most desperate situations at home imaginable.
So, in my wife's school, you have about 1/3 of the students who are extremely difficult to handle and educate - primarily due to the "parents" who created them. Many are being raised by grandparents, because the parents refuse to provide a decent environment or aren't permitted by law to have them in their custody. Lots of emotional problems, as well as learning problems. In the past when there was an unruly student, there were ways to actually try to do something about it. Not now....the teachers' hands are tied. So, day after day, the classroom becomes a place where a large percentage of the time is spent on managing behavior, thus hampering the education of the students who do try and actually care. Now I realize this is not true in every school, but times are changing, people, and it's not a pleasant thing to deal with. This is not just true in our state, but in many areas. It is particularly true in elementary schools, where expulsion or reassignment to alternative situations is simply not done, unless a weapon is involved.
As I said, it wasn't always this way....not when I went to school, and not when she first began teaching. All of society's problems and ills are right there every day for seven hours, five days a week. And except for doing the very best they can, the teachers have become frustrated and see very little light at the end of the tunnel. So, to insult them, and refuse to at least pay them for dealing with problems which they didn't create is throwing salt in the wound. The local control has been taken away from their counties, and even the state has lost a lot of control because of manipulation from the feds.
Merit pay is an interesting concept. Basing it on test results is laughable. Frankly, you can't get blood out of a turnip. Perhaps if it was based on a socio-economic scale of what kind of students they were teaching, it might be more accurate. Private schools and charter schools do not deal with this. The "problem" and non-conforming students are not accepted or simply removed from the schools.
My wife has taught with a few teachers who should not be in the classroom, that is a definite. Also a definite in any profession. Most of those get filtered out along the way, but there are some who hang on to the bitter end, just collecting a pay check. That is frustrating to the teachers who do what we all expect. But, the vast majority are not like that at all. When my oldest daughter considered being a teacher, we both told her that was not advisable for her fiscal or mental health. She wisely took our advice. I do know that there aren't too many jobs out there with the stress involved with teaching. And if it is a high pressure job, they are amply rewarded for it.
As most parents who volunteer and spend time in a school will tell you, they wouldn't do a teacher's job for any amount of money.
And, by the way, the three months off thing.....not accurate at all. In my county, the students start school near the beginning of August. My own children, who are all professionals, have vacations ranging from four to six weeks, and that is at this point in their lives. It will increase as they grow older. And all of them make salaries which range from $80,000 to over $200,000 a year. None are over 38 years of age, so their salaries will only increase. Not so with my wife, she is at the mercy of a petulant legislature and some tax-payers who feel she is making quite enough. If the tax payers want the public education system to survive, they need to wake up to what is really going on.
my mom retired from ohio county schools. she has been collecting on her pension for going on 20 years. that 6% was the best investment she ever made.
See you guys bright & early tomorrow, strike continues............
By Brad McElhinny in News | March 05, 2018 at 10:16PM
CHARLESTON, W.Va. — All West Virginia schools closed again.
Senate Republicans on a conference committee to work out differences in a bill dealing with pay raises for teachers said they were working on a compromise but wouldn’t describe it.
And all of the other lawmakers on the conference committee said they’d give the process until 9 a.m. Tuesday, the hour of the next scheduled meeting, but after that they said it’s time to move.
That sums up Monday, the 55th day of West Virginia’s legislative session and the eighth straight day every public school in the state closed.
By Brad McElhinny in News | March 05, 2018 at 10:16PM
CHARLESTON, W.Va. — All West Virginia schools closed again.
Senate Republicans on a conference committee to work out differences in a bill dealing with pay raises for teachers said they were working on a compromise but wouldn’t describe it.
And all of the other lawmakers on the conference committee said they’d give the process until 9 a.m. Tuesday, the hour of the next scheduled meeting, but after that they said it’s time to move.
That sums up Monday, the 55th day of West Virginia’s legislative session and the eighth straight day every public school in the state closed.
What is projected to happen is this: the committee with four Republicans and two Democrats will vote 4-2 to accept the 5% pay raise. However, Ferns and Blair have to sign off on it, which will not happen. This will essentially cause the bill to die. I'm becoming increasingly aware of the fact that the good ole' boys and girls will not buck their party lines and the Senate leadership. So, they will go down with the ship, so to speak. I'm very unhappy with this, as I am a Republican and was happy with the fact that some fiscally responsible people were now in our legislature. However, with this debacle, I venture to say, that all of the Senate Republicans who are up for reelection this year or in 2020, will not be back. Carmichael and Blair are smug, arrogant individuals who are now showing their massive egos and thirst for power. Unfortunately, the other Senate Republicans are obviously too frightened to stand up to them. A total mess. If you had watched the Finance Comm meeting and the session Saturday night, you would see why it is being billed as "Live....from the West Virginia State Capitol...it's Saturday Night!"
I would agree with your first assessment.
Your math isn't incorrect either, but that goes both ways. Why are teachers standing on 1%? That whole $17.69 a paycheck makes a difference, I guess?
*math in public evolution based on average salary of $46k
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No, you saw a lot. It’s this type of thing that makes me laugh when you’re on here trying to prove your intellectual superiority. Maybe you needed more than 12 years in the public education system.
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But they have to pay 100% of their peia after they retire. After the pay taxes and insurance they bring home around two grand a month
And why are the Senate leaders - Carmichael, Blair, and Ferns - standing on the 1%? The finances were shown to the committee tonight showing the funds were there. It has become a giant power struggle as Carmichael and a few of his cronies are manipulating the whole political process. Absurd. The only good thing which will come from this is the end of several political careers.
I want to first say, I’ve agreed with almost everything you’ve stated regarding teaching in this thread and want to sound argumentative. With that said, no teacher in WV is making $70,000. A teacher at the M.A.+45 salary classification with 35 years of experience in Monongalia County is currently making $62,596.
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With all due respect, no teacher in WV is going to average $50,000 over their career.
Excellent post and the issues teachers face, which you described, are why it would be difficult to implement a merit-based pay system. There are so many factors in the classroom that are out of a teacher’s control.
Yes, I found the information on the salary schedules document located on the WVDE website.
Ferns is well funded & wants to run for higher office. For those that don’t know, Ferns’s father owns A&B Kia in Marshall County, which is near the boundary line with Ohio County. Ferns’s own business is in the same complex. Naturally, Ferns has voted in favor of numerous laws that have benefited his father’s industry. Also his dad owns an office building in downtown Wheeling that is leased by DHHR. How much is his father getting a month from the taxpayers on that deal? If I was a teacher, I wouldn’t be holding signs in front of the schools.
https://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/...cle_f5a7e902-a48d-5d22-b5b8-37435a5d802f.html
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Oklahoma comes closer to joining West Virginia in a major teacher strike
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-oklahoma-teachers-20180306-story.html
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-oklahoma-teachers-20180306-story.html
Thank you for taking the time to share such a thorough, personal, and well thought perspective on the situation. I think people just can't understand the level of stress and personal investment that teachers carry with them day-in, day-out. Hard to believe some of the ugliness in this thread that is directed at teachers, of all people.
Let's talk about your analogy...primary care docs on average for a full time doc, probably have 1,500 lives they are caring for. Now they don't see them everyday but they certainly get phone calls, electronic messages, and labs to follow-up on everyday - even weekends and nights. If they work 3 days a week, then they get paid for three days per week be it if their employed in a system or they are working independently. Plus when they're off, they're still getting phone calls, etc to handle...so they're really never off. Even on vacation some of them prefer to handle their own calls, etc.
It is silly to make a point over 1%. You are probably eroding your base of voters. That is just a dumb decision regardless if you are pro teacher raise or anti teacher raise. The teachers may want to seek a recall vote against the senate leadership. I believe that is just popularity vote. If you have enough people in their district sign a recall petition then I believe it forces a recall vote. You usually don't have to do anything wrong to be recalled. It is just a way to remove unpopular politicians. Politicians try not to talk about this method because it means the people can remove politicians from the right or left as they see fit. Go to those counties and start the recall process. I have no idea if they are good politicians or bad politicians. Nor am I saying the teachers are right or wrong. This may be a way to get the process moving forward.
I know in Ohio it's now 38 years to retire with full benefits if you are a public school teacher. So it is changing in big way.
That's not exactly true. While there are not many making $70k it took me only a few minutes to find one in Kanawha Co that makes $71,800 along with others in the high 60k range.
And this brings up the topic of Privatization vs Public... Can be good and/or bad, depending on what type of parent the student has.
The pension is a great benefit that most non government employees do not have. I know WV messed that up a couple years ago. They tried to switch everyone over to 401K or the government equivalent. A couple years in they looked at numbers and found older workers would be screwed. Then they offered a buyout back to a pension which the worker had to pay for. However the years while on the 401K did not count towards the pensions retirement number. This forced workers to work past their retirement date to make up for the lost years. Yes WV pension/insurance is a big mess. Ideally you would want to cut every one over from a pension to a 401K. Why because it is cheaper in the long run. However you have to do it in a way that doesn't screw over existing workers. Tell them you'll them 7% this time if all new workers agree to be 401K. Some of the above information may not be 100% correct. I was going off memory of events that happened 4-5 years ago.
Sorry, Bubba. Not the same thing. Coal miner strikes are a different animal. What they have to deal with on a daily basis would absolutely shock people. They're also legal. Public employee union strikes are illegal.
I see a whole lot of political nonsense in these threads. I will tell you this, striking is not a bad thing and is in our WVa DNA. Much of what drove our labor laws are due to strikes. Teachers are fed up, I am fed up as well. I was a registered Republican (before Trump) and I have no problem with what the teachers are doing. This isn't a political issue, this is a priority issue.
Is Education a priority? Let's back up the talk, everybody claims it is. But from this thread where people downplay the teaching career,etc.. it is obvious we don't all mean it. So reducing business taxes for oil and gas to "attract" business shouldn't be on the table if it comes at the cost of education. We will find another way, we have to. Education is the only way out of this mess our state is in. Plain and simple, this isn't hard.
Is Education a priority? Let's back up the talk, everybody claims it is. But from this thread where people downplay the teaching career,etc.. it is obvious we don't all mean it. So reducing business taxes for oil and gas to "attract" business shouldn't be on the table if it comes at the cost of education. We will find another way, we have to. Education is the only way out of this mess our state is in. Plain and simple, this isn't hard.
yes, because they are not really on strike. the county superintendents are providing cover.
I don’t believe we have a recall option in WV. Someone introduced a bill last year, but I don’t think it passed.
They will not get paid when the days are made up. In Ohio County, the action of the superintendent closing the schools will allow the teachers to still be eligible for a bonus if they miss less than 5 days.
