Just reality .
You want to make a ban bet.
I say West Virginia doesn't have a Top 30 class this year
What say you?
Neal Brown
- Thread starter WVUALLEN
- Start date
Just reality .
You want to make a ban bet.
I say West Virginia doesn't have a Top 30 class this year
What say you?
I say, "By what measurement?" Certainly not one that is objective or results based. You are talking about subjective opinions that are easily influenced by the schools a player is offered by. A much more accurate measurement of a player's value is after his final year. What was his actual P5 skill level and what was his value to the team? Sometimes they coincide, but oftentimes not.
This is not a slam against you, let's look at the measurements of your value to this board with your posts. As measured they are very misleading because with only 257 likes out of 2,065 messages posted you would appear to have no value at all. Those are your numbers, not mine. But similar to a head coach or recruiter those aren't the important numbers to the value of this board. The numbers that matter would be the number of responses your messages have generated.
We are not privy to that information but it is really the one that matters to the website owners. I would be curious to know them as compared to my own. By the measurement of likes compared to posts I'm a 4 star and you aren't even a 2. But by number of responses generated you could very well be beating me. Do you see the point of my analogy?
That is not totally accurate.
As of right now you are correct. The majority of 2020 recruits are unknown.
Rivals and 247 determine what players to evaluate based on offers. But don't think that an actual evaluation does not occur.
That is why there are a lot of camps from now until August.
They base their rankings on how the players performs against other top talent.
Sometimes players who are under the radar do not appear at these camps or stay unnoticed.
But as of now there is no one to evaluate for West Virginia.
Neal Brown has not received one 2020 commit. He might have some silent commits but I doubt it because recruiting is based on leverage.
You get commits and you get others to sign on because they don't want to miss their seat.
The downhill effect. More momentum you create the more commits you will receive.
The difference between a Power 5 school and a Group of 5 is Recruiting.
At a Power 5 you have to get ahead of the competition.
At a Group of 5 you can evaluate the unknowns.
But a team of unknowns and under recruited players will not get West Virginia to where they want to be.
Dayyyyyuuummm reminds me of Earl Campbell...some
I haven't really put a name to Jase McClellan yet.
I don't think he has the speed of a Zeke Elliot or a LaDainian Tomlinson.
There is a Freshman at Lee High School in Tyler that looks like a young LT.
Jase needs to get bigger
I don't think he has the ceiling of an Elliot.
But could be like Saquon Barkley.
Fast but not super Fast but strong and can break tackles.
I think West Virginia could sign a huge class this year.
I know no one has left the program.
But you could see some attrition after the spring camp.
To make room for Neal Brown's players.
What I like about Neal Brown is he may not be that type of coach.
But still you may see some spare parts leave that opens up scholarships
You see what I did there, don't you? You are not the bogeyman. As a former writer and copy editor for several websites including Bleacher Report, I suspect you are not who you appear to be at all. I see no bias against WVU in your messages, only a little Devil's advocate. Your detailed knowledge and articulation make me suspicious.
By the way, I think Neal Brown has a handle on what it takes to be very successful at WVU. Our definitions of success may vary, mine is excellence as in the top 10 program experienced during the White/Slaton years.
You never miss an opportunity to hype yourself...and youre always over-generous with your resume.
JFC, this site sucks. It's like a car wreck.......hate to look, but can't help it.
LOL! Now I know who you are, I thought you only posted on MetroNews. My resume' is easily traced but I see no reason to post it here. I am long retired from writing and the rest is frankly none of your business. Site management insisted I keep the br at the end of my name.
By the way Aaron, I would be promoting rather than 'hyping' and 'youre' should not have the e on the end. Also, 'overgenerous' has no hyphen. Maybe your likes are fairly accurate as a measurement of your value to the board and website. 9,182 messages with 682 likes? Sorry, I just had to copy edit one last time. You are usually more articulate than that.
I'll end with "Go Mountaineers!" and I become more and more convinced that Neal Brown is a blessing we will soon see the fruits of. Keeping him may end up being our biggest challenge but WVU now has the resources to do so if it proves warranted.
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I attempt to bring a different insight to this message board. Some like it...Others do not.
If they want to listen that is their choice and not mine. I will not change what I think because of the crowd.
Neal Brown winning starts with bringing in the correct players. The success of West Virginia in the 2000's would be difficult to duplicate as Rich Rodriguez was playing 2010 football against teams playing 2000 football. I think Neal Brown is a very good coach but he is not the edgy West Virginia coach that WV had with RichRod and tried to bring back with DH.
I do think Neal Brown could build a better program and have players buy into the system. He showed this at Troy. If you have the time. Study Larry Blakeney. This is the guy who preceded Brown at Troy. Neal Brown was coaching his players on a field named for Blakeney. I think Neal Brown is the best of both. He is Hal Mumme but also Blakeney. Meaning he is not afraid of innovation but he knows how to build something that last and isn't just a flash in the pan
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A little.
But the conditions for a Earl Campbell type are hard to find anymore. Even in East Texas.
Earl played football and ran like he did because Earl hated to work.
Not talking about in the weight room or on the football field. But physical labor in the sun.
Earl made sure he didn't have to live like that and his family didn't either.
So Earl would run you over not just because of physical talent but because of fear...
Most of these good recruits are pampered by the time they are 13-14.Texas in 2018 is not Texas in 1973.
At least Dana is not doing much at Houston.
He tried to get in with the big Houston trainers like Footwork King, Uncle Ro and Justin Allen but so far it hasn't worked.
He is not on Kevin Sumlin status at high schools like Westfield or North Shore yet but he hadn't made inroads. Don't know if a visit from Dana would even be welcomed.
So won't say that your old coach is hitting home runs. He is striking out. Quin Bright left Cougar High off his top list and Tyron Carrier was all over the kid.
He tried to get in with the big Houston trainers like Footwork King, Uncle Ro and Justin Allen but so far it hasn't worked.
He is not on Kevin Sumlin status at high schools like Westfield or North Shore yet but he hadn't made inroads. Don't know if a visit from Dana would even be welcomed.
So won't say that your old coach is hitting home runs. He is striking out. Quin Bright left Cougar High off his top list and Tyron Carrier was all over the kid.
You're = you are
...and "you are" always over-generuous with your resume.
I used it correctly.
Btw, not some guy named Aaron.
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My final response to you. You've never seen my actual resume' but it is accurate. If you were going to use youre instead of you are it is a contraction and requires an apostrophe between the the u and the r. Link
There is no hyphen in the word overgenerous. Link Why are you being a jerk when you don't even know me? Just because you can hide behind a keyboard?
I apologize to all others participating in this post for going off topic to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed troll. I'll use the ignore button to end it.
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Lol, you want to talk about an apostrophe on a message board?
You like giving your resume....but ive never seen anyone actually ask for it.
This topic has went every which way....
Going to get in back on topic. Saw a few articles about QBs in the Big XII and where Austin Kendall is at. Don't know if it is OU running him down or what but some people aren't as high on him as I originally thought.
Pretty sure Neal Brown will have a QB dominant offense. I don't see West Virginia winning without one.
The importance of Kendall proving everyone wrong is the key. More importantly for Neal Brown it is going to determine a lot.
Going to get in back on topic. Saw a few articles about QBs in the Big XII and where Austin Kendall is at. Don't know if it is OU running him down or what but some people aren't as high on him as I originally thought.
Pretty sure Neal Brown will have a QB dominant offense. I don't see West Virginia winning without one.
The importance of Kendall proving everyone wrong is the key. More importantly for Neal Brown it is going to determine a lot.
That's a good question.
I suggest you look at his past record at all stops back to his Texas Tech days. If you do this, you'll find his overall career record is built on beating losing teams. Last season alone 8 of the wins were against football teams with losing records.....and one of the losses was against 6-6 Liberty. I honestly didn't even know Liberty had a football team?
In any case, you will have to judge for yourself how he will do in the Big 12, where he is going to be out in the sunlight, against winners. There'll be nowhere to hide in the Big 12.
My guess is this is not going to go well for WVU this season. Personally, I don't see WVU making a bowl game. Just not enough losing teams on the schedule to get there in '19.
Have a good friend who is a WVU alumni and diehard WVU fan. He thinks it is a good hire, and noted that Brown had beaten LSU and Nebraska in recent years. I wished him good luck, but based on what I've seen from his career long performances, I have to say I see fool's gold. Beating losing teams means pretty much nothing. Gotta beat good teams to survive.
Good luck to all you Mountaineers! Sorry to bear such bad prognostications, but it is what it is.
There is a lot of energy in the program but no movement yet.
I was doing some research on Big XII recruiting yesterday.
Check out OT from DC Timothy Lawson. A West Virginia recruit.
The guys wing span is impressive.
Perfect future LT. If everything develops could be a Top 10 NFL draft pick
I was doing some research on Big XII recruiting yesterday.
Check out OT from DC Timothy Lawson. A West Virginia recruit.
The guys wing span is impressive.
Perfect future LT. If everything develops could be a Top 10 NFL draft pick
Not going to attack Neal Brown's ability to coach...
But we are almost one month into the heart of recruiting season.
Most of the recruits make their mind up before the start of the school year.
Here is a look at the 2019-2020 Recruiting classes combined.
247 composite
The Bottom
10. Kansas 19 commits 172.70
9. Kansas State 21 commits 176.01
8. Texas Tech 19 commits 188.73
7. West Virginia 20 commits 190.37
The average
6 TCU 26 commits 210.62
5 Baylor 26 commits 218.55
4 Iowa State 25 commits 236.55
3 Oklahoma State 24 commits 249.69
Elite
2. Texas 29 commits 403.20
1. Oklahoma 30 commits 408.96
But we are almost one month into the heart of recruiting season.
Most of the recruits make their mind up before the start of the school year.
Here is a look at the 2019-2020 Recruiting classes combined.
247 composite
The Bottom
10. Kansas 19 commits 172.70
9. Kansas State 21 commits 176.01
8. Texas Tech 19 commits 188.73
7. West Virginia 20 commits 190.37
The average
6 TCU 26 commits 210.62
5 Baylor 26 commits 218.55
4 Iowa State 25 commits 236.55
3 Oklahoma State 24 commits 249.69
Elite
2. Texas 29 commits 403.20
1. Oklahoma 30 commits 408.96
Recruiting rankings aren't the end all be all, or they wouldn't play the season. Player development, coaching, scheme, and the overall atmosphere of a program can float your boat or sink your ship. The overall conference standing translates to an obvious need to "coach up" the existing talent. I'd say you'll know pretty quickly into the season if and what Brown can do.
Not all the way true...
You need players to fit your scheme.
Vic Koenning runs a 4-2-5. Same as Gary Patterson.
Very similar to what Texas has in a 3-3-5
The 4 and the 3 is a position called Buck, B Backer or the Bandit by Koenning.
This guy has to be able to put his hand in the dirt and to be able to drop back in coverage.
No one on West Virginia's roster fits this.
Ideal player would be a Jerry Hughes who played at TCU and now plays for the Buffalo Bills.
Jaylon Smith from ND who plays for the Dallas Cowboys
A player who has a high vertical
Low shuffle speed
Decent 40. Doesn't have to be a 4.5 but not a 4.8+
Long
Usually a 6-2 to 6-5
220-240.
You need players to fit your scheme.
Vic Koenning runs a 4-2-5. Same as Gary Patterson.
Very similar to what Texas has in a 3-3-5
The 4 and the 3 is a position called Buck, B Backer or the Bandit by Koenning.
This guy has to be able to put his hand in the dirt and to be able to drop back in coverage.
No one on West Virginia's roster fits this.
Ideal player would be a Jerry Hughes who played at TCU and now plays for the Buffalo Bills.
Jaylon Smith from ND who plays for the Dallas Cowboys
A player who has a high vertical
Low shuffle speed
Decent 40. Doesn't have to be a 4.5 but not a 4.8+
Long
Usually a 6-2 to 6-5
220-240.
Some people cannot handle things in life.
WV has some good DL pieces as well as good LB pieces.
But their DL are DL.
Stills can't cover a TE or a RB on a wheel route.
Can't drop back when a slot WR runs a slant.
For Koenning's D to be at full strength you need this.
I wonder what he does and how he manages a roster not to his picking.
Texas had the same issues as well when Herman took over with Naashon Hughes.
Hughes couldn't play the position so Texas went to 6 DBs and created the Joker position.
A D they use against certain Big XII teams.
WV has some good DL pieces as well as good LB pieces.
But their DL are DL.
Stills can't cover a TE or a RB on a wheel route.
Can't drop back when a slot WR runs a slant.
For Koenning's D to be at full strength you need this.
I wonder what he does and how he manages a roster not to his picking.
Texas had the same issues as well when Herman took over with Naashon Hughes.
Hughes couldn't play the position so Texas went to 6 DBs and created the Joker position.
A D they use against certain Big XII teams.
I hope WVU actually plays a real Spring game with all the rules and refs but with the QBs wearing yellow jerseys so he's down by 2 hand touch or put a flag belt on him as in flag football. Then we would all see who's got game and who are career backups. It might even draw a crowd.
Coach Nehlen did it and sometimes even let the coordinators choose up sides. I'd drive 450 miles to see that.
Coach Nehlen did it and sometimes even let the coordinators choose up sides. I'd drive 450 miles to see that.
Bottom Line: If he produces a winning record this season, he can coach. If he doesn't, he'll be given "time" to bring in his players. IMHO there is enough talent there to get 6 or 7 wins. If he shows 3 or 4 wins, you all will know you are in serious trouble - it will be business as usual = beating losing teams.
Alabama had wins over 5 teams with losing records in 2018. Two more wins were against cupcakes so I guess 7 of Saban's wins were meaningless.
Oklahoma also had wins over 5 teams with losing records. One of those teams was their cupcake.
Ohio State had 6 wins against teams with losing records plus a loss to another losing team. So they played 7 teams with losing records.
I could go on but there seems to be a pattern here. It's the wins that count because even the losers can bite you on the ass sometimes.
Neal Brown's success at WVU is still an empty page but he seems to be doing things right so far. He doesn't have any commitments yet for 2020 but he definitely raised the level of targets and they are giving him and his staff rave reviews.
If high quality recruits make a visit and give high praise to the coaches and facilities but don't sign I have no no idea what else you can legally do to change that. WVU does not pay players or their families to sign with the Mountaineers. What we do give them is an actual education, a chance to win and a shot at the NFL.
Oklahoma also had wins over 5 teams with losing records. One of those teams was their cupcake.
Ohio State had 6 wins against teams with losing records plus a loss to another losing team. So they played 7 teams with losing records.
I could go on but there seems to be a pattern here. It's the wins that count because even the losers can bite you on the ass sometimes.
Neal Brown's success at WVU is still an empty page but he seems to be doing things right so far. He doesn't have any commitments yet for 2020 but he definitely raised the level of targets and they are giving him and his staff rave reviews.
If high quality recruits make a visit and give high praise to the coaches and facilities but don't sign I have no no idea what else you can legally do to change that. WVU does not pay players or their families to sign with the Mountaineers. What we do give them is an actual education, a chance to win and a shot at the NFL.
It goes back to the 4 teams with a new coach.
Les Miles became Les Miles in 2001 when 3 win Oklahoma St played Top 5 Oklahoma in Bedlam and knocked them out of the Big 12 Championship game and took them out of the running for the BCS Championship.
Never doubt Les.
The other two I don't know about.
K State's coach has been a winner and brings a winning attitude.
It all starts with Austin Kendall.
Regardless of what recruiting rankings say i don't think wvu has done all that bad in the last 5-10 years. We have had quite a few nfl draft picks in that time. I think the success of Neal Brown will depend on if he can bring the It factor to wvu. He certainly displayed this quality at Troy when he went to LSU and came away with the W. I think the biggest weakness of DH was his inability to make in game adjustments. We had numerous games in his tenure that we were on the cusp of victory but fell short in the end. I think Neal Brown showed at Troy that he could come up with the right play at the right time. If he brings this to wvu better days may be on the horizon. Regardless of what recruiting rankings say the success of any wvu football coach will be his ability to get 3 star recruits to play like 4 and 5 star recruits.
Neal Brown is a good coach but the two games that people know him for could have been done by numerous Group of 5 teams because of the circumstances.
LSU----
Coming off a loss against Miss State.
Their OLine was a mess and there was a power struggle between The Shrimp Boat Captain and Matt Canada.
But Canada still called the plays. LSU didn't have the OLine to use spacing and to create holes at all different levels.
So Troy's DLine dominated and was in the backfield the entire game.
Against Nebraska....
Nebraska started a walk on at QB.
This QB couldn't throw the ball more than 15 yards.
Troy's D would take advantage of weak OLines.
Nebraska included.
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I am unsure as to what Alabama, Oklahoma or Ohio State has to do with anything in this thread, but I'll bite. Using your own numbers and opinions, Alabama was 7-1 vs. non-cupcake teams with winning records, Oklahoma was 7-2 vs. teams with winning records, and Ohio State was 6-0 vs. teams with winning records. My guess is that WVU fans would be giddy, if Neal Brown posted any of these numbers.
That's certainly what we are hoping for. I didn't use those schools as examples out of dis respect or I would have used Pitt. The numbers are mostly meaningless and some of those wins came against teams with barely winning records or 6-6. But that does not matter. Wins are wins.
People could have judged Dabo on a bowl game he lost 70-34 at Clemson but they didn't. People could be casting aspersions on Saban for getting blown out 44-16 in the recent championship game, but they rightfully don't. They look at the overall success. Coach Brohm wasn't blamed for a 49-20 blowout loss to 6-7 Purdue. Look at the rest of the year except for being taken to overtime by Maryland. I'll take 13-1 every year, I don't care who the opponents were.
My entire point is simply that who Coach Brown's wins and losses came against at Troy cannot be extrapolated to project his future success at WVU. It's all about the wins and he is a proven winner. All he has done so far is show us what convinced Gee and Lyons to hire him. I see a lot of reason for optimism and hope in Mountaineer Nation.
The proof energy is being created is proven by recruiting.
If Neal Brown and staff are getting recruits to believe in them that means the players on the rosters are as well.
There has been no proof yet that Neal Brown is getting recruits to believe in the program.
These next couple of weekends are key.
Even with official visits not talking place until April you see 10+ recruits visiting P5 schools a weekend.
A lot of these schools have commits and also have silents that will commit when needed.
Think by the middle of March WV needs at least 2 commits.
If Neal Brown and staff are getting recruits to believe in them that means the players on the rosters are as well.
There has been no proof yet that Neal Brown is getting recruits to believe in the program.
These next couple of weekends are key.
Even with official visits not talking place until April you see 10+ recruits visiting P5 schools a weekend.
A lot of these schools have commits and also have silents that will commit when needed.
Think by the middle of March WV needs at least 2 commits.
You hit that one on the head. Troy beat LSU because LSU was sleep walking. I watched it........LSU went on to win the rest of their games that season, finally losing their bowl game.
Nebraska was a disaster early. Frost finally got them on the same page in the last half of season, and it showed. It was NOT because Brown was superior, he again caught a lucky break.
Funny, how nobody here wants to look into the LOSS to Liberty; ).....or the 8, count'em 8 out of 10 wins for Troy last season were over losers....same the year before - wins over losers. Same before that, and same before that, and same before that......ALLLLLLLL the Way back to his start at TT.
That trend ends this year for Mr. Brown. He's going to have to beat some winners......and there will be no "sneaking up" on sleeping teams anymore. No more "overlooking". That is over. Teams are going to bring-it to WVU week in, and week out. Not going to end well fellas. You just don't know it yet......but you will.
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Regarding LSU...
What ended up happening is Matt Canada had his playcalling revoked and LSU went back to being LSU.
Change is hard in BR. Lousiana is probably the most conservative place in the United States.
This goes back to 2011 and the NC against Alabama.
LSU couldn't get pass the 50. They have been searching for an offense ever since.
They though Matt Canada was the Messiah.
But he ended up being a fraud to them and they overreacted.
Went back to traditional LSU football. They couldn't change. They resisted.
The Miss State game was the eye opener and the Troy game was the struggle.
When they played Auburn....It was Les Miles/Cam Cameron/Steve Ensminger football.
What ended up happening is Matt Canada had his playcalling revoked and LSU went back to being LSU.
Change is hard in BR. Lousiana is probably the most conservative place in the United States.
This goes back to 2011 and the NC against Alabama.
LSU couldn't get pass the 50. They have been searching for an offense ever since.
They though Matt Canada was the Messiah.
But he ended up being a fraud to them and they overreacted.
Went back to traditional LSU football. They couldn't change. They resisted.
The Miss State game was the eye opener and the Troy game was the struggle.
When they played Auburn....It was Les Miles/Cam Cameron/Steve Ensminger football.
