You won't come near the question, will you?
It's Lyons job to craft his own statements and control what gets put in public. He could have said 10,000 different things, but he didn't and doesn't look very good for it.
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- Thread starter ThePunish-EER
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You won't come near the question, will you?
It's Lyons job to craft his own statements and control what gets put in public. He could have said 10,000 different things, but he didn't and doesn't look very good for it.
You're babbling Darth. Let me say it one more time in words that you may understand....Lyons did the right thing. It is his job to negotiate. Public pressure is good. His statement was fine.
Goodbye Darth...enough of your anti-Lyons ranting. Luck screwed us in several ways and bolted out of town. Your man crush has left the stage. It's over.
Goodbye Darth...enough of your anti-Lyons ranting. Luck screwed us in several ways and bolted out of town. Your man crush has left the stage. It's over.
LOL - Straight from the Team JR/Hank/Mickey playbook.
Here's a lesson for you dummy. If you want to use public pressure as leverage during negotiations - do it BEFORE negotiations are over.
Lyons offered an extension. Dana declined. That's life. But why go public and throw Dana under the bus?
It sets the program back further if you give a contract extension, which increases the buyout, and then you need to fire him. Like it or not, DH has not done enough to warrant an extension and giving him one at this point could set the program back further than any implications from not giving him one. Look, I'm not sure how it all works out but I know that our AD gets paid to make these decisions and it is neck on the line when they don't work out. So, my guess is Lyons has put some thought into this and has much more to lose than either of us. Lets hope that next season is very successful and at the end of the season he can get that extension.
Let's put the brakes on your agenda right now.
Lyons offered DH an extension. Dana declined it.
Stop being an Apostle of Hank and think for yourself.
It's hard to defend anyone on this board, but you are a major dick. Get a damn life.
It doesn't matter what statement is made. If no deal is in place people are going to figure out there is disagreement between the two side. Competing schools are going to tell recruits that DH is on thin ice regardless if whether there is a deal in place or not. DH will be the coach in 2016 he will have the opportunity to prove himself with a favorable home schedule. If he wins 9+ games he should at least get an opportunity to coach in 2017 and maybe get a deal with more favorable terms.
Of course it matters what statements an AD makes about his HC. You simply don't like Dana so you don't care and couldn't be happier to see him publicly undermined.
People can assume what they want, but the AD should know better.
Bad first showing for Lyons.
Right now Lyons is just carrying the competitions water.
For those not aware, the lines have already been written in stone. Team Hank will be goose stepping alongside Lyons, no matter the blunder.
Dana makes 2.5 million a year..by far the highest paid state employee..it's a business now..and you must produce..end of story.
Business is business people can interpret statements however they choose. Lyons made an offer DH declined. You can say Lyons undermined DH others can say he set a precedent for the program. Lyons has given DH an opportunity to coach in 2016 you should be happy with that. Its up to DH to prove his worth in 2016. He is in year 6 and will have a favorable home schedule. DH fate is in his own hands. The future is now like it or not that's how it works in a results orientated business
The only precedent he set was that he doesn't mind airing university dirty laundry in public.
I don't care the two parties couldn't make a deal. I wouldn't care if Lyons fired Dana. But don't go public with business that should remain private. That does hurt the university.
I'm sure he's a bright guy but right now he looks like a novice and this was his first test as AD....turned it into a circus when there wasn't even a story.
Contracts of state employees are open to the public. Lyons can't control the media if he would have said where still working on it he would have been constantly badgered with questions regarding the issue. It is what is the ball is now in DH court. If 2016 is a good season then DH will have an opportunity to negotiate again. When you work for a public entity your subjected to public scrutiny. Some AD's would have handled it differently than Lyons. Some would have handled it the same either way its up to DH now.
Lyons did not handle this well and none of you Hankolites ever gave Luck any benefit of the doubt, so what goes around comes around. Perhaps it was unintentional, but I'm not sure if that's better or worse.
This isn't an issue for you because you dislike Dana and enjoy seeing him publicly disparaged. For me this is a competency issue for our new AD.
Your just whining over sour grapes. You are in no position to question the competency or lack of it of our current AD. I don't blame luck for the contract he gave Dana like I said its what the market Dictates. In 2011 Dana was a hot commodity and his stock was sky high after the orange bowl win. Things are different now and he was offered a contract based on what his current value is on the market. Lyons is charge of Wvu athletics , He is the one who has to make the fundraising calls and oversee seasons tickets sales. If Lyons would have given DH a contract similar to Luck based on his performance the last 4 years then his competency would have been questioned. I suggest you move on from this and stop complaining. DH got himself into this predicament and he has the opportunity to coach his way out of it and just be happy with that.
I can question Lyons as I feel necessary.
Dana's performance as a coach, and Lyons going public are two separate issues. You just don't have the faculties to know the difference.
I get you don't like Dana and your happy to see him take a black eye in public. I just disapprove of our own AD being the hatchet man to our own program.
No you just understand business. We get you don't like Lyons but he made his decision take it or leave it. Anything he does or doesn't say is open to scrutiny depending on what your point of view is. Lyons is an employee of a public entity and his contractual decisions are open for public scrutiny. In the era of social media nothing stays private its all up to DH and the 2016 season
whats hilarious is the ancient thinking in this fanbase and AD. Fact is, Dana was NOT overpaid based on his production. He was the 8th highest paid coach in the 10 team Big 12. Yet his teams average 4-5th in this league. Results do matter. And Dana is actually performing above his pay grade. You want better results. Pay more. Invest more in this program. That is the failure here. It's not 1980 anymore where coaches make 100k a year. Get with the times. Study the market trends for salaries in the P5 conferences.
You're #1 reason is Lyon's BIGGEST mistake. He may have done it to avoid another Joe DeForest scenario, where Dana keeps someone and moves him every year because he fails, but an AD CAN FIRE AN ASSISTANT COACH EASIER THAN A HEAD COACH if he sucks. But guys like Brian Mitchell, Ron Crook, and especially JaJuan Seider and Lonnie Galloway deserve MUCH better.
But if you're gonna throw that up, then, and to use your term, the true blue blood coaches aren't kicking down WVU's door either... I mean we have two of the best coaches in the country that grew up IN MORGANTOWN'S SHADOW, in Jimbo Fisher and Nick Saban, but you don't see them kicking down our doors now do you?
Ok, let me say that while #1 may have been true in the first three years, the last two years, we have had EXCELLENT assistant coaches, and have kept all but Tom Bradley, who was never meant to stay, just to help ease Tony Gibson into the DC role, and Damon Cogdell, who was hired as a strategy to get that Florida Pipeline going to WVU again, and conversely, to give Damon a start coaching in the college ranks. Other than Joe Deforest, no bad coaches have been retained, to my knowledge in the last two years. But even then, Deforest was one of the very few college coaches who are hands on with kickers, and we haven't had a better kicking game since a guy named Patty Mac was kicking and booting at WVU. Hell, Deforest ACTUALLY was the safeties coach responsible for K J Dillon and Karl Joseph, as well as having a Lou Groza finalist in the same year, so you're #1 doesn't really hold true anymore. Even worse, what really good assistant coach would EVER come here, knowing he's on a year to year contract, based on not how well he coaches his players, but how well his players actually play. One bad year. One bad attitude kid. JOB LOST.
TERRIBLE MOVE.
Also, recruiting isn't a science.. Dana has recruited plenty of highly regarded QBS 4*s David Sills, Ford Childress, William Crest, and now one of the other services has our newest qb as a 4*. Which blows my mind. If you want to say he doesn't develop them, then, maybe. But i think it's more than that. I'ts a combination of things (some on Dana, probably MORE on the actual players), but you can't say he doesn't get highly rated QBs.... or keep them... Ford was a disaster. Immature, and even at Fresno State, didn't get it. so.......
My point is that Shane is new at this, just like Dana was a new HC at one point. If Dana made rookie mistakes, that could cost us a game. Shane is making rookie mistakes that will ripple and have MUCH more of an impact when he does mess up.
btw, thanks for having a site that encourages discourse and refrains from 26 page threads of 5 informative posts, and 250 posts calling those 5 people dumbasses every way possible.. I retreat now. no more long posts for a while.. pinkie promise.
Let's Go!
How many coaches do you know would leave Florida State and Alabama for wvu? Making that comparison is foolish. Would you leave a better paying job with more resources. Allot of up and comers would take the Wvu job if offered
So if Dana was getting paid 4 million dollars a year would his record be better? Would Dana still try and run a qb with a bum ankle on 4th and 1 against K State?. Most of the other coaches in the big 12 have earned there salary. If art briles are Gary patterson where to leave Baylor and TCU respectively there replacement would not come in making 4 million. Dana has to earn his money if he wants more than he has to produce more. Whatever Lyons expectations are its clear DH hasn't met them. If DH wants more than start winning more. Lyons is only giving DH his fair market value
you foolish, fickle fans keep pointing to that 4th and 1 qb run against KSU as some sort of incompetency by Dana. Yet you fail to understand all coaches call similar plays and take gambles and chances like that to throw an opposing defense off. Similar case was this years BCS NC game where Nick Saban called a fake punt on 4th down in a tie game, in the 4th quarter, in Alabamas own territory, and against a Clemson team that was at that point moving the ball at will. Had Alabama not converted the fake punt into a 1st down, Clemson was starting in field goal range to take the lead. It would be considered a complete boneheaded play call by Saban. However it worked and Saban was a genius. Same way if Skyler would've gotten the 1st down, Dana would be a genius.
Well what would Dana's record be if he was making 4 million dollars a years since you seem to suggest its about money? FYI tony Gibson is the 4th Highest paid assistant in the big 12. When DH hired Joe Deforest he gave him a salary which made him the 2nd highest paid D coordinator in the Big 12. If you actually knew the responsibilities of AD then you understand the business side of things.
the point is, if you expect better than 4th to 5th, you got to pay more to another coach than you paid Dana. Dana's pay scale is 8th out of 10 in the big 12. Danas doing better than his pay grade. If it's not enough, then you better invest more into the program and pay better. I don't blame Dana for declining the extension offered for less money. It's time for this backward state and ancient thinking to get with the times. Otherwise, drop down to the wviac and battle it out with glenville and fairmont state.
Btw; feel free to educate me on the issues an AD deals with since you seem to know. I'll be waiting.
Texas and Oklahoma are the only 2 programs that will offer big money for new football coaches in this conference. The other 8 conference schools will only pay top dollar once a coach proves himself. Lyons offered DH a fair deal based on his performance. The mod has already called you out on your BS. If DH improves he win loss ratio im sure he would get a better deal. He does not deserve anymore than he is getting. Several Coaches have already established that 7 wins is attainable at wvu. The AD has many responsibilities from fundraising to running the day to day operations of the athletic department. If he where to give DH a golden parachute he would be fired for Incompetence. Running a business is much different than taking people to the bathroom and pushing them around in a wheelchair all night
I actually like that idea.
I was hoping we'd land Whit Babcock and RR. Two guys who know what they're doing and respect each other and can work together. Right now I look at our athletic department and with the exception of Huggins, I feel underwhelmed.
People always accused Dana of needing "on the job training", we'll apparently Lyons does too.
Butch Jones may be available in the near future.
I know you're just trying to get under his skin but there's no reason to demean a nurses job.
Punish is a bozo but not because he's a nurse. He's a nurse who happens to be a bozo.
I have worked in the medical profession for over 30 years i have great respect for RN's. The very fact that you are calling punish a bozo and accusing me of demeaning him is very hypocritical on your part. I question your knowledge of the dark side of the force
You can demean him all you wish. I said its wrong to demean a nurses job.
It's the "IF he chooses" that plays a huge part in this drama. Would you desire to work for a man who has made decisions that directly affect your recruiting/future? IIf I were riding pretty high after a 10 win season I would be marketing myself and sincerely looking to move before the 'plot master' got his set of criteria filled and pulled the trigger. As a manager, it is prudent to look beyond the immediate fit ire and plan accordingly. Seems Lyons is not overly proficient in that arena. He has blinked at the immediate future and closed his eyes to the longer term while spouting his policies regarding Dana's contract, the limiting of assistants to one year only, etc. All these seem destined to have nothing but negative impact on the mind set of potential recruits. Uncertainty is a main course on which rival recruiters feast , and Lyons have set out a very lavish buffet for hem. No good will come (short term to 5 or 6 years) from the chaos he has created no matter, as I see it, the win/loss record in 2016.
Calling another poster a bozo is demeaning too. Why do you keep going on about this? We get it you don't like the way Lyons handled the PR you think it undercutt the program. There are people who feel he is helping the program by raising the bar either way any one opinion isn't more right than the other. If you really want a say in the day to day operations of the athletic department then i suggest you make a 7 figure donation to them . I would ensure that this would grant you personal access to Shane Lyons's cell phone and his bosses. You could take this grievance up with them directly
common knowledge that the 7th recruiting class is vitally important in evaluating a head coach. mr lyons has gone out of his way to hamstring dana in his 7th year AND by proxy has dealt a death blow to the program. it will take 100 years to dig out of mr lyons' mess.
Lyons has said there policy concerning assistants is consistent with the industry. There where going to be questions about DH future regardless of what happened. The university of Maryland gave Edsall an extension only to fire him 4 games into the season. The majority of the recruits are not receiving copies of a coaches contract with their recruiting letters. Any recruit that signs with Ohio state or Alabama knows there is a chance that Saban or Meyer may not be there by the time they graduate. Its a business and risks are taken. DH is under contract for 2 more years whether his stay is longer depends on his performance and whether he gets what e perceives is a better offer. recruits know there are no guarantees of anything
and I was starting to think you had some sense to you. I was wrong. I guess several of you hate I'm right most of the time on this board.
