Floyd-Chauvin Case - what's your thought on the outcome
- Thread starter rog1187
- Start date
Nothing, unless there is a MN law limiting the use of those.
The problem is the judge is far more likely to cave to political and public pressure than a jury. Jurors can hide behind some anonymity which presumably allows them to decide without fear of repercussions from the community. Then factor in Minnesota elects their judges just like WV, which is the dumbest way to select judges on the planet. I would never consider putting a high profile case before an elected judge.
Ahhhhh, makes sense. I wasn’t aware that’s how MN seated judges. I assumed he was appointed.
From today's prosecution witness (Stiger) being questioned by the defense (Nelson):
Nelson: What Floyd says?
Stiger: Couldn't make it out.
Nelson: I ate too many drugs?
Stiger: I can't make that out, no.
Sure does sound like that, and jury just heard it.
Nelson: What Floyd says?
Stiger: Couldn't make it out.
Nelson: I ate too many drugs?
Stiger: I can't make that out, no.
Sure does sound like that, and jury just heard it.
Keith Ellison is dumber than a rock, he has pretty much failed at everything except getting some equally dumb rocks to vote for him. If he would have released the full body cam, instead of just showing a short video that left a lot of stuff out much of this would have cooled off a lot sooner, but he withheld that evidence and watched the city burn. He along with the Gov and media have created this shit storm and frankly the people who put them in office are getting what they reaped. Let the riots begin, I will sit back cleaning my "military style weapon" munching on some popcorn watching what happen. I am tired of trying to reason with these fools.
Another State's witness
Nelson: Attempt to understand and hear what various parties are saying? Hear Floyd say, I ate too many drugs?
Reyerson: No.
Nelson: Publish Exhibit 1007, listen to Floyd voice.
Nelson plays that statement again.
Nelson: Appear that Floyd said I ate too many drugs?
Reyerson: Yes, it did.
Remember, Reyerson is a STATE witness.
Nelson: Attempt to understand and hear what various parties are saying? Hear Floyd say, I ate too many drugs?
Reyerson: No.
Nelson: Publish Exhibit 1007, listen to Floyd voice.
Nelson plays that statement again.
Nelson: Appear that Floyd said I ate too many drugs?
Reyerson: Yes, it did.
Remember, Reyerson is a STATE witness.
He is not accurate. The feds could step in and charge him. It would take the prosecutors, both sate and federal, to immunize him. We know the Feds won't because they want to push the same narrative the media is pushing. WHITE MAN BAD.
It could also be "I ain't do no drugs". Which is what he repeatedly told the officers since the moment they arrived on scene. If the prosecutors didn't follow up on that witness, they aren't doing their jobs. Which would seem to confirm DvlDog's suspicion about the dog and pony show from the prosecutors.
Only reason is his counsel reading the jurors. Based on the evidence only, you put his buddies on the force up, your experts and be done.
If he is not convicted and doesn’t testify, the butthurt will be legendary.
as for the riots, they are coming whether acquitted, convicted or convicted of lesser charges.
I didn't have time to pull yesterday's stuff - here is where I get it from - https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/...ate-too-many-drugs-video-may-be-game-changer/
From the state’s telling, fentanyl had nothing substantive to do with Floyd’s death. Sure, Floyd was an addict, but that wasn’t a factor to which we should attribute his death, but merely another reason to sympathize with the struggling Floyd, who was after all still a loved human being despite his addictions. Don’t pay any attention to the drug narrative, that’s not what killed Floyd!
Rather, what killed Floyd was Derek Chauvin’s “blood choke” knee to Floyd’s neck. Or maybe it was a respiratory choke delivered by Chauvin’s knee to Floyd’s neck. Or maybe it was mechanical asphyxiation resulting from the pressure applied by all three officers holding Floyd prone. Or maybe it was positional asphyxia because they failed to put Floyd in the recovery position. Or maybe it was that the officers should have started chest compressions on the handcuffed, huge, and just-violent Floyd before EMS showed up. Or maybe, or maybe, or maybe … Does it really matter. Chauvin’s knee!!! Excessive force!!! Not a trained technique!!!
Unfortunately for the state, many of its own witnesses, especially its use-of-force and medical witnesses, whether existing MPD trainers or well-paid expert witnesses from out of town, have testified in ways that substantively undercut that narrative of the state.
So far in the state’s case we’ve heard the state’s own witnesses and experts testify that Chauvin’s knee was on Floyd’s back and shoulder blades, not his neck. We’ve heard them testify that not only was Chauvin’s force not excessive, he would have been privileged to use more force and declined to do so—a choice they characterized as de-escalation. We’ve seen photographs from MPD training materials showing officers being trained to place their knees on suspects in exactly the manner Chauvin had placed his knee on Floyd.None of that can be said to buttress the state’s still vague and ambiguous narrative of guilt.
Even now, 9 days in, we still don’t have an actual medical opinion of Floyd’s cause of death, other than cardiac arrest induced by apparent asphyxia. Was that asphyxia caused by the officers charged in this case? Perhaps.
Alternatively, is there an equally, or even more likely, explanation for Floyd’s death? Perhaps the astonishing high levels of fentanyl in his system, and the fentanyl discovered (eventually) in both the Mercedes SUV Floyd was driving and the squad car from which Floyd achieved his violent escape.
After all, how does fentanyl kill? By depressing respiratory function. That is, by chemical induction of asphyxia. Which eventually, of course, will result in cardiac arrest. Which is how Floyd died.
We haven’t actually heard from the state’s actual ME, correct? We heard from the state’s hired ME. Defense has yet to call any witnesses, correct? Of which, one will be the actual state’s ME who will talk about the overdose.
Not unless the State ME was up today. Defense has not had their turn yet. They have done damage on cross of the States witnesses though.
Read more here - Day 9
Day 9
Day 9
- today’s trial proceedings looked a lot more typical for a prosecution presenting its case in chief than has been the case so far in Minnesota v. Chauvin. What I mean by that is that the state finally had a day in which its own witnesses did not end up doing the defense more good than themselves.
- the state got done what it needed to get done today with its expert witnesses, who unambiguously told the jury that Floyd’s death was the direct result of the police restraint used to hold him for EMS, period, and that nothing else mattered. Not Floyd’s fentanyl level, not Floyd’s substantial co-morbidities. Not Floyd’s poorly made decision to fight four police officers against lawful arrest.
- Tobin gave Prosecutor Blackwell on direct questioning exactly what they needed from him, and that was an expert opinion, to a reasonably degree of professional certainty, that what killed Floyd was impaired breathing that resulted in sufficiently low oxygen levels to cause his death, as a result of the manner in which he was restrained by Chauvin and the other officers. Here’s video of his testimony that captures those statements.
- Tobin also demonstrated an amazing ability—or, at least, claimed an amazing ability—to make precise biological determinations from cell phone and body camera video. For example, Tobin claimed to be able to tell the precise instant when Floyd suffered brain damage as a result of low oxygen levels (it was when Floyd abruptly kicked out a leg).
- When asked by Blackwell whether it was true that if someone could speak, it meant they could breathe, Tobin cautioned that this was a dangerous view, because just because someone was breathing now didn’t mean they would be breathing 10 seconds from now. Which strikes me as just another way of conceding that the actual statement itself is, in fact, true—if you’re speaking, you’re breathing. Nobody has ever claimed that if you’re speaking now it means you’ll be breathing later.
- Tobin had also had the opportunity to prepare for the prosecution a whole series of exhibits—diagrams, illustrations, graphs—to use alongside his testimony.
Exhibits that were provided to Defense Counsel Nelson … last night.
That’s not a typo. Last. Night. - On the “if you can speak you can breathe” issue, Nelson noted that in Tobin’s own report he’d written that even physicians often believe this to be true. Tobin agreed. You may recall that state witness MPD use-of-force trainer Lt. Mercil had previously testified that he himself taught that concept when instructing officers.
- With respect to how Tobin had purportedly identified the precise moment at which Floyd had suffered brain damage, the kick of Floyd’s leg, Nelson asked if it might be reasonable for a police officer to perceive such movement as continued resistance. The state objected, and that objection was sustained—but the jury heard the question posed, which was really the point.
Imagine that, the prosecution witnesses actually helping the prosecutions case. One day out of 9. If Chauvin goes free it'll be greatly due to the ineffectiveness of the prosecution.
Moe has no idea how fentanyl works. I’ve seen fentanyl in action, both when legally administed by itself and when someone who’s OD’d on a bad batch of heroin laced with it. The junkies know exactly how much heroin to inject, except when it’s laced, then you get all these ODs. And we are talking about mcg, not mg or grams that can suppress respiration.
Odd fact. I had surgery in Feb. I was looking at the itemized list of drugs I was administered and I was given Fentanyl during the surgery. Of all the drugs I was given during my surgery and in the 2 days at Ruby for recovery fentanyl was the cheapest by far. Around 2 bucks for whatever dosage I was given.
I’d say that $2 is probably a decent upcharge from purchasing costs. Ive seen it used for procedures, post-op pain control and pain control in the ER, and it works amazingly well for everyone that receives it (that I’ve seen)
Moe has no idea about a lot of things.
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Here are the 2 problems at the end of the day for the State's MEs:
1. The MEs are saying he died as a result of the neck compression and their medical reports specifically cite that. The defense has had several of the prosecution's witnesses already confirm the knee wasn't on the neck.
2. The MEs didn't know Floyd was having trouble breathing before Floyd was on the ground. The prosecutor convinced the judge to immediately seal the body cameras which showed Floyd's difficulty breathing so this was unknown to the MEs when they conducted their investigations and wrote their reports. It seems the State's efforts to maintain a positive image of the felony junkie may bite it in the ass.
1. The MEs are saying he died as a result of the neck compression and their medical reports specifically cite that. The defense has had several of the prosecution's witnesses already confirm the knee wasn't on the neck.
2. The MEs didn't know Floyd was having trouble breathing before Floyd was on the ground. The prosecutor convinced the judge to immediately seal the body cameras which showed Floyd's difficulty breathing so this was unknown to the MEs when they conducted their investigations and wrote their reports. It seems the State's efforts to maintain a positive image of the felony junkie may bite it in the ass.
Everything I’ve read about the Prosecution’s ME from yesterday was that he gave extremely compelling and effective testimony. I didn’t see the Defense ask why he was used vs the actual state’s ME for the benefit of the jury to understand the prosecution went doctor shopping when their own ME’s findings shot their allegations to hell.
Essentially, this guy was just credentialed and paid to give the prosecution’s version of an opinion. The state’s ME was unbiased.
